7 ms·

Concerned about veteran with PTSD, judge serves time with him

182 points by dctoedt 11y ago

biomcgary 11y ago
The judge is also a veteran. The shared background and experience is what allowed the judge to experience empathy and see the perpetrator's humanity, while still rendering the (most likely) necessary judgement.
- dcposch 11y ago
  That's why it's so important that the judges and officers charged with keeping order are part of the communities they serve. There has to be trust and empathy between the people and the police. I think we have lots of cities and neighborhoods where the police are from a different culture, imposed from outside. Too often the relationship breaks down and the people start seeing them as adversaries, rather than as guardians. Conversely, the cops also lose empathy for the people. Ferguson is the clearest case, but this is happening in lots of cities. (In the extreme, it describes an occupation, where the role of police is taken by a foreign military.) Props to the judge, thats a really beautiful example of humane justice, where the person breaking the law and the one enforcing it can still have some love for each other. I think we need a political movement to make sure sheriffs, judges and offices represent their communities. As much as possible, cops should be trusted citizens of the neighborhoods they patrol and part of the local culture. Local election turnout is often low, so a little organization goes a long way.
- matchagaucho 11y ago
  YouTube video of the Judge describing the Veteran's Court program. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzJm0I4CzuM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzJm0I4CzuM The court is located near Fort Bragg, which sees a lot of cases involving Veterans.
JadeNB 11y ago
In case one instance of humanity isn't sufficient to brighten your Friday, the next story (linked at the bottom of the article) is cheering, too: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/relying_on_executive_power_virginia_governor_restores_voting_rights_for_mor http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/relying_on_executive_... . (Given yesterday's story about a measured response to drone fears—see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11544082 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11544082 —I wonder what will become of my cynicism.)
- lostlogin 11y ago
  It's quite nice reading HN last - the crappy local news and depressing international news is somewhat offset by HN.
- tremon 11y ago
  Maybe I can restore some of your cynicism by pointing out that VA is a swing state (Obama won with 51% during last election).
mdturnerphys 11y ago
"Do things that don't scale" :)
pessimizer 11y ago
That's depressing added information to the headline. I was hoping that it was actual empathy, rather than shared background.
- mey 11y ago
  It is still empathy, no matter the source.
  - pessimizer 11y ago
    No, it's not. It's sympathy. Empathy involves a bit of imagination that most people lack. edit: "Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another being (a human or non-human animal) is experiencing from within the other being's frame of reference, i.e., the capacity to place oneself in another's position." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy It's just the way that these words happen to be defined in English. They stand for different, but related concepts.
    - Cuuugi 11y ago
      You don't know the judges experience, or life, which makes your point impossible to prove. Why are you being so combative?
      - civilian 11y ago
        It's because he's better at empathy than us. :)
        pessimizer 11y ago
        Your argument is with English, not me.
        derrida 11y ago
        Can you see any dramatic irony here? People use words in a variety of ways - communication: a search for a language that is also yours!
fapjacks 11y ago
As a veteran with PTSD, I can say without a doubt this was probably helpful to the guy who got the DUI. Every veteran knows the "hole" story, and it is absolutely true. When I was in a dark hole myself after my last tour, I came home and just laid on the floor in my living room drunk. I couldn't do anything. Couldn't leave the house. Couldn't do anything but just lay there on the living room floor and drink, staring at the ceiling. My best friend in the universe (a legit BFF, if you will), he came and laid next to me on my living room floor. It's hard to describe what that means to someone that's never experienced it. But I will tell you without a doubt that both of those guys got something worthwhile out of sitting in jail together. We spend years sitting in holes in the army (or some other kind of shitty situation), and it becomes natural to draw strength from the unity of having a buddy in the shitty situation with you ("We are experiencing this shitty thing together"). It is pretty important I think to have the same opportunity as veterans after leaving the service. I've since done very similar things for friends of mine, and I encourage any veterans reading this to do the same for anyone you know going through similar trouble.
- m1n1 11y ago
  Is that BFF also a veteran? Just curious.
  - fapjacks 11y ago
    Yeah. He was the forward observer (13F) in my infantry platoon. I talk to him every day, just about all day. Mah BFF.
    - bootload 11y ago
      for those who want to understand the 13F role ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFqFdX3h8gI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFqFdX3h8gI
    - m1n1 11y ago
      Is it key that he's a veteran? If he wasn't a veteran would he still be able to help you? Would it be different and if so, how?
thorntonbf 11y ago
It's really encouraging to see people in the system who really care about helping the people they serve, and this judge is clearly in that category. His comments in the video about "sometimes they lose their way" was filled with compassion. We need more people like that in the world.
- joe_the_user 11y ago
  US mass incarceration is terrible problem, it's well known that the US has more prisoners than any other country and one of the highest per capita rates of imprisonment in the world. The war on drugs, mandatory minimum sentencing, brutal probation regimes that throw ex-prisoners back into prison for minor offenses all play a part. This is systematic problem, media-driven attacks on criminals are a reliable "dog-whistle" issue for politicians and so-forth. It is encouraging to me when folks involved in this system put forward a critique and try to stop the overall downward trend here. It is "nice" when someone engages in this sort of act of pure human kindness but this seem like exactly the sort of things that doesn't scale, that doesn't recognize larger problems and basically puts things down as a simple problem for veterans rather than a problem our whole society faces. Anyone who's spent a bit of time watching courts knows that a given judges sees dozens of people per day who get essentially assembly line justice with 90% of them being sad people who made sad choices with the courts meting out one more level penalties likely to continue these people's downward spiral. It's nice when a judge does one semi-good thing - but I can only see nice, not encouraging, here.
- bcook 11y ago
  I disagree. If the judge wanted to make a difference, he would set precedent, not this publicity stunt. Great... he helped 1 person who suffers from a disorder. What about the other millions? I do not mean to dismiss his act of kindness but, honestly, who do you think is benefiting more; the judge or the soldier? I would say the judge.
  - fencepost 11y ago
    The judge can't help all of those other millions, but he can help the one right in front of him. Are you saying that if he can't help everyone then it's better that he help nobody? Or to give it the common phrase, "Think globally, act locally."
d33 11y ago
Gosh, I read "STD" and I was kinda shocked...
ck2 11y ago
Serna had been charged with driving while intoxicated. Will the judge serve life with him when he kills someone because judges keep letting him off the hook? Because I've had two different friends in two different decades killed by drunk drivers who got only a few years for taking people in their prime off the planet. Drunk driving when you kill someone should be life. Parole eventually is fine but it should be a life sentence initially.
- fencepost 11y ago
  I think there are two separate things here - the DUI charge which presumably still exists, and a separate probation violation charge (triggered by the DUI arrest) which is what got him in front of this judge. Whether the judge's actions here will have a long-term impact on Serna is something only time will tell, but I suspect that the knowledge that "hey, someone out there actually cares" can only help.
huac 11y ago
I didn't know there were veteran courts, but it's an interesting system that accounts for the unique challenges facing veterans and can seriously help them reassimilate into society. more info: http://justiceforvets.org/what-is-a-veterans-treatment-court http://justiceforvets.org/what-is-a-veterans-treatment-court

182 points by dctoedt 11y ago

The judge is also a veteran. The shared background and experience is what allowed the judge to experience empathy and see the perpetrator's humanity, while still rendering the (most likely) necessary judgement.

dcposch 11y ago
That's why it's so important that the judges and officers charged with keeping order are part of the communities they serve. There has to be trust and empathy between the people and the police. I think we have lots of cities and neighborhoods where the police are from a different culture, imposed from outside. Too often the relationship breaks down and the people start seeing them as adversaries, rather than as guardians. Conversely, the cops also lose empathy for the people. Ferguson is the clearest case, but this is happening in lots of cities. (In the extreme, it describes an occupation, where the role of police is taken by a foreign military.) Props to the judge, thats a really beautiful example of humane justice, where the person breaking the law and the one enforcing it can still have some love for each other. I think we need a political movement to make sure sheriffs, judges and offices represent their communities. As much as possible, cops should be trusted citizens of the neighborhoods they patrol and part of the local culture. Local election turnout is often low, so a little organization goes a long way.
matchagaucho 11y ago
YouTube video of the Judge describing the Veteran's Court program. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzJm0I4CzuM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzJm0I4CzuM The court is located near Fort Bragg, which sees a lot of cases involving Veterans.

JadeNB 11y ago

In case one instance of humanity isn't sufficient to brighten your Friday, the next story (linked at the bottom of the article) is cheering, too: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/relying_on_executive_power_virginia_governor_restores_voting_rights_for_mor http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/relying_on_executive_... . (Given yesterday's story about a measured response to drone fears—see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11544082 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11544082 —I wonder what will become of my cynicism.)

lostlogin 11y ago
It's quite nice reading HN last - the crappy local news and depressing international news is somewhat offset by HN.
tremon 11y ago
Maybe I can restore some of your cynicism by pointing out that VA is a swing state (Obama won with 51% during last election).

mdturnerphys 11y ago

"Do things that don't scale" :)

pessimizer 11y ago

That's depressing added information to the headline. I was hoping that it was actual empathy, rather than shared background.

mey 11y ago
It is still empathy, no matter the source.
- pessimizer 11y ago
  No, it's not. It's sympathy. Empathy involves a bit of imagination that most people lack. edit: "Empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another being (a human or non-human animal) is experiencing from within the other being's frame of reference, i.e., the capacity to place oneself in another's position." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy It's just the way that these words happen to be defined in English. They stand for different, but related concepts.
  - Cuuugi 11y ago
    You don't know the judges experience, or life, which makes your point impossible to prove. Why are you being so combative?
    - civilian 11y ago
      It's because he's better at empathy than us. :)
      - pessimizer 11y ago
        Your argument is with English, not me.
        derrida 11y ago
        Can you see any dramatic irony here? People use words in a variety of ways - communication: a search for a language that is also yours!

fapjacks 11y ago

As a veteran with PTSD, I can say without a doubt this was probably helpful to the guy who got the DUI. Every veteran knows the "hole" story, and it is absolutely true. When I was in a dark hole myself after my last tour, I came home and just laid on the floor in my living room drunk. I couldn't do anything. Couldn't leave the house. Couldn't do anything but just lay there on the living room floor and drink, staring at the ceiling. My best friend in the universe (a legit BFF, if you will), he came and laid next to me on my living room floor. It's hard to describe what that means to someone that's never experienced it. But I will tell you without a doubt that both of those guys got something worthwhile out of sitting in jail together. We spend years sitting in holes in the army (or some other kind of shitty situation), and it becomes natural to draw strength from the unity of having a buddy in the shitty situation with you ("We are experiencing this shitty thing together"). It is pretty important I think to have the same opportunity as veterans after leaving the service. I've since done very similar things for friends of mine, and I encourage any veterans reading this to do the same for anyone you know going through similar trouble.

m1n1 11y ago
Is that BFF also a veteran? Just curious.
- fapjacks 11y ago
  Yeah. He was the forward observer (13F) in my infantry platoon. I talk to him every day, just about all day. Mah BFF.
  - bootload 11y ago
    for those who want to understand the 13F role ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFqFdX3h8gI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFqFdX3h8gI
  - m1n1 11y ago
    Is it key that he's a veteran? If he wasn't a veteran would he still be able to help you? Would it be different and if so, how?

thorntonbf 11y ago

It's really encouraging to see people in the system who really care about helping the people they serve, and this judge is clearly in that category. His comments in the video about "sometimes they lose their way" was filled with compassion. We need more people like that in the world.

joe_the_user 11y ago
US mass incarceration is terrible problem, it's well known that the US has more prisoners than any other country and one of the highest per capita rates of imprisonment in the world. The war on drugs, mandatory minimum sentencing, brutal probation regimes that throw ex-prisoners back into prison for minor offenses all play a part. This is systematic problem, media-driven attacks on criminals are a reliable "dog-whistle" issue for politicians and so-forth. It is encouraging to me when folks involved in this system put forward a critique and try to stop the overall downward trend here. It is "nice" when someone engages in this sort of act of pure human kindness but this seem like exactly the sort of things that doesn't scale, that doesn't recognize larger problems and basically puts things down as a simple problem for veterans rather than a problem our whole society faces. Anyone who's spent a bit of time watching courts knows that a given judges sees dozens of people per day who get essentially assembly line justice with 90% of them being sad people who made sad choices with the courts meting out one more level penalties likely to continue these people's downward spiral. It's nice when a judge does one semi-good thing - but I can only see nice, not encouraging, here.
bcook 11y ago
I disagree. If the judge wanted to make a difference, he would set precedent, not this publicity stunt. Great... he helped 1 person who suffers from a disorder. What about the other millions? I do not mean to dismiss his act of kindness but, honestly, who do you think is benefiting more; the judge or the soldier? I would say the judge.
- fencepost 11y ago
  The judge can't help all of those other millions, but he can help the one right in front of him. Are you saying that if he can't help everyone then it's better that he help nobody? Or to give it the common phrase, "Think globally, act locally."

d33 11y ago

Gosh, I read "STD" and I was kinda shocked...

ck2 11y ago

Serna had been charged with driving while intoxicated. Will the judge serve life with him when he kills someone because judges keep letting him off the hook? Because I've had two different friends in two different decades killed by drunk drivers who got only a few years for taking people in their prime off the planet. Drunk driving when you kill someone should be life. Parole eventually is fine but it should be a life sentence initially.

fencepost 11y ago
I think there are two separate things here - the DUI charge which presumably still exists, and a separate probation violation charge (triggered by the DUI arrest) which is what got him in front of this judge. Whether the judge's actions here will have a long-term impact on Serna is something only time will tell, but I suspect that the knowledge that "hey, someone out there actually cares" can only help.

huac 11y ago

I didn't know there were veteran courts, but it's an interesting system that accounts for the unique challenges facing veterans and can seriously help them reassimilate into society. more info: http://justiceforvets.org/what-is-a-veterans-treatment-court http://justiceforvets.org/what-is-a-veterans-treatment-court