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Democracy can take many forms indeed. But let's think opportunistically, for a moment. In general, I'm inclined to think that in a democracy, the people shoul

Democracy can take many forms indeed. But let's think opportunistically, for a moment. In general, I'm inclined to think that in a democracy, the people should have more direct influence to things “closer” to them (by some measure), and less for bigger, nationwide, issues, of which they presumably have less understanding. This is, in fact, how most democratic nations work in practice. The case of Boaty McBoatface, though, is unusual in that it doesn't actually much matter what the name of a research vessel is. It's just a name. Names are almost always boring. Unless… if the name becomes so popular and widely known that the very name opens up completely new opportunities for raising funds and awareness. Which, I would have thought, was kind of the point of the competition to begin with. So, why not reap the PR benefits of this name? Why would they start a contest but back out when they hit the jackpot? I do not understand.

noir_lord 11y ago
If spun right the PR benefits of calling the thing Boaty McBoatface are huge. You could do merchandise, books, characters, You could have Boaty McBoatface sale up to the ice caps to look at why they are melting. It's not like this is unusual we had a Childrens TV series here that was massively popular about talking trains and talking helicopters. I think they squandered a massive opportunity because they don't understand how the internet works.
- tfm 11y ago
  It is a difficult line to toe. Obviously if their primary objective is to raise awareness of the (continuing) existence of the boat, BMcBF is a winner, and there are numerous cash-in opportunities such as those you suggest. If done right it might not even look cynical! If on the other hand giving it a silly name "dilutes their brand" (to use an HN favourite) then they're going to do the stuffy thing. Not entirely sure why folks would be surprised at a Conservative minister taking a conservative approach... Really seems that SCIENCE does a lot better in the public eye at the moment when it goes populist rather than cloistered, but here we are...
  - toyg 11y ago
    > Really seems that SCIENCE does a lot better in the public eye at the moment when it goes populist rather than cloistered Except vaccines. And chemtrails. And moon landings. And and and... I'm a populist by nature but let's not get carried away here.
    - OvidNaso 11y ago
      All of those viewpoints you alude to are extremely fringe movements and are in no way populist.
      - toyg 11y ago
        You would be surprised. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9991988/40000-children-in-Wales-still-not-vaccinated-against-measles.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9991988/40000-ch... These movements share a message: "the man is screwing us little people". That's a populist message, which it's why they're much more popular than their actual craziness would otherwise grant.
- hartpuff 11y ago
  The point of the boat isn't to be a Budgie the Helicopter style cash machine, is it? It has a serious purpose. Why does it have to appeal to 4 year olds, who have zero understanding of or interest in what it does? Why does it require an infantile name to appeal to kids who are old enough to be interested in what it does? The only reason this is even any kind of issue is because of the way internet works, where all kinds of pointless immature stupidity is given far more time of day than it deserves, because newspaper sites have to fill themselves with something. Edit: Oh dear. Looks like I hit a nerve with some people. :( ∗sad mcsadface∗
  - aninhumer 11y ago
    The parent wasn't simply talking about making it a "cash machine", they're talking about using it as a PR vehicle for science. And you don't have to be a child to appreciate the name, just not quite as allergic to whimsy as you seem to be.
    - hartpuff 11y ago
      > You could do merchandise, books, characters He was talking about free merchandise, books, characters then?
      - aninhumer 11y ago
        They also said: > You could have Boaty McBoatface sale up to the ice caps to look at why they are melting. An example of how it could be used to deliver important messages. And merchandise can be part of the message anyway. (I should however note that I just edited my comment to include the word "simply".)
        hartpuff 11y ago
        AFAIK there's nothing to stop someone creating a character called Boaty McBoatface that teaches 4 year olds why the ice caps are melting, without having its internet joke name attached to a real life $300 million scientific research vessel.
- DanielStraight 11y ago
  The most popular talking vehicle, in the US at least, is named Thomas. This isn't a particularly convincing argument for a silly name. If kids will accept Thomas, surely they'll accept a more serious name than Boaty McBoatface.
  - pavel_lishin 11y ago
    I assumed it was Lightning McQueen.
    - DanielStraight 11y ago
      Looks like it's pretty close: https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=thomas%20the%20tank%20engine%2Clightning%20mcqueen https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=thomas%20the%20tank%...
adrusi 11y ago
In general, I'm inclined to think that in a democracy, the people should have more direct influence to things “closer” to them (by some measure), and less for bigger, nationwide, issues, of which they presumably have less understanding. This is, in fact, how most democratic nations work in practice. Problem is, it's easier to develop an understanding of national issues than local or regional issues because national issues get pushed on us by media, while you have to actually seek out information about anything local. Everyone talks about national issues, that's social pressure to become knowledgable about them.
theoh 11y ago
> It's just a name. Names are almost always boring. Not everyone feels this way. Names can be important and in the arts are particularly relished/valued and interpreted, to the extent that noms-de-plume and other forms of pseudonym are popular. A formalist account of names sees them as dumb labels, and in computing you can get away with that. But it's not whole story because it doesn't consider the emotional side.
CamperBob2 11y ago
So, why not reap the PR benefits of this name? Why would they start a contest but back out when they hit the jackpot? I do not understand. This is reminiscent of a contest on EEVBlog that Keysight just sponsored. Participants entered the contest by posting a video on Facebook describing what they would do with an oscilloscope. The person whose video garnered the most votes would win a new 20 GS/s oscilloscope with a bandwidth spec of 6 GHz and a price tag in the neighborhood of US $70,000. Naturally, the winner turned out to be a kid who made a video about an electric water heater and got a bunch of her schoolmates to flood the voting page. The highest-ranked entry by someone with a legitimate need for a 6 GHz oscilloscope finished in a distant third place. So Keysight did the only thing that could have avoided a giant online dumpster fire, and gave one of the scopes to each of the top three contestants. It was an expensive lesson in the failings of democracy (and in not using Facebook for anything important). So yeah, they should just paint the name on the boat and get over it. Keysight salvaged their marketing effort by taking the high road, but you can bet they won't run this contest the same way in the future. They're lucky they didn't have to give away three dozen 6 GHz scopes to random high school kids.
- tamana 11y ago
  Using Facebook to communicate is totally fine and great. Letting self-selectrd Facebook hordes make decisions is the mistake.

noir_lord 11y ago

If spun right the PR benefits of calling the thing Boaty McBoatface are huge. You could do merchandise, books, characters, You could have Boaty McBoatface sale up to the ice caps to look at why they are melting. It's not like this is unusual we had a Childrens TV series here that was massively popular about talking trains and talking helicopters. I think they squandered a massive opportunity because they don't understand how the internet works.

tfm 11y ago
It is a difficult line to toe. Obviously if their primary objective is to raise awareness of the (continuing) existence of the boat, BMcBF is a winner, and there are numerous cash-in opportunities such as those you suggest. If done right it might not even look cynical! If on the other hand giving it a silly name "dilutes their brand" (to use an HN favourite) then they're going to do the stuffy thing. Not entirely sure why folks would be surprised at a Conservative minister taking a conservative approach... Really seems that SCIENCE does a lot better in the public eye at the moment when it goes populist rather than cloistered, but here we are...
- toyg 11y ago
  > Really seems that SCIENCE does a lot better in the public eye at the moment when it goes populist rather than cloistered Except vaccines. And chemtrails. And moon landings. And and and... I'm a populist by nature but let's not get carried away here.
  - OvidNaso 11y ago
    All of those viewpoints you alude to are extremely fringe movements and are in no way populist.
    - toyg 11y ago
      You would be surprised. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9991988/40000-children-in-Wales-still-not-vaccinated-against-measles.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9991988/40000-ch... These movements share a message: "the man is screwing us little people". That's a populist message, which it's why they're much more popular than their actual craziness would otherwise grant.
hartpuff 11y ago
The point of the boat isn't to be a Budgie the Helicopter style cash machine, is it? It has a serious purpose. Why does it have to appeal to 4 year olds, who have zero understanding of or interest in what it does? Why does it require an infantile name to appeal to kids who are old enough to be interested in what it does? The only reason this is even any kind of issue is because of the way internet works, where all kinds of pointless immature stupidity is given far more time of day than it deserves, because newspaper sites have to fill themselves with something. Edit: Oh dear. Looks like I hit a nerve with some people. :( ∗sad mcsadface∗
- aninhumer 11y ago
  The parent wasn't simply talking about making it a "cash machine", they're talking about using it as a PR vehicle for science. And you don't have to be a child to appreciate the name, just not quite as allergic to whimsy as you seem to be.
  - hartpuff 11y ago
    > You could do merchandise, books, characters He was talking about free merchandise, books, characters then?
    - aninhumer 11y ago
      They also said: > You could have Boaty McBoatface sale up to the ice caps to look at why they are melting. An example of how it could be used to deliver important messages. And merchandise can be part of the message anyway. (I should however note that I just edited my comment to include the word "simply".)
      - hartpuff 11y ago
        AFAIK there's nothing to stop someone creating a character called Boaty McBoatface that teaches 4 year olds why the ice caps are melting, without having its internet joke name attached to a real life $300 million scientific research vessel.
DanielStraight 11y ago
The most popular talking vehicle, in the US at least, is named Thomas. This isn't a particularly convincing argument for a silly name. If kids will accept Thomas, surely they'll accept a more serious name than Boaty McBoatface.
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  I assumed it was Lightning McQueen.
  - DanielStraight 11y ago
    Looks like it's pretty close: https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=thomas%20the%20tank%20engine%2Clightning%20mcqueen https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=thomas%20the%20tank%...

adrusi 11y ago

In general, I'm inclined to think that in a democracy, the people should have more direct influence to things “closer” to them (by some measure), and less for bigger, nationwide, issues, of which they presumably have less understanding. This is, in fact, how most democratic nations work in practice. Problem is, it's easier to develop an understanding of national issues than local or regional issues because national issues get pushed on us by media, while you have to actually seek out information about anything local. Everyone talks about national issues, that's social pressure to become knowledgable about them.

theoh 11y ago

> It's just a name. Names are almost always boring. Not everyone feels this way. Names can be important and in the arts are particularly relished/valued and interpreted, to the extent that noms-de-plume and other forms of pseudonym are popular. A formalist account of names sees them as dumb labels, and in computing you can get away with that. But it's not whole story because it doesn't consider the emotional side.

CamperBob2 11y ago

So, why not reap the PR benefits of this name? Why would they start a contest but back out when they hit the jackpot? I do not understand. This is reminiscent of a contest on EEVBlog that Keysight just sponsored. Participants entered the contest by posting a video on Facebook describing what they would do with an oscilloscope. The person whose video garnered the most votes would win a new 20 GS/s oscilloscope with a bandwidth spec of 6 GHz and a price tag in the neighborhood of US $70,000. Naturally, the winner turned out to be a kid who made a video about an electric water heater and got a bunch of her schoolmates to flood the voting page. The highest-ranked entry by someone with a legitimate need for a 6 GHz oscilloscope finished in a distant third place. So Keysight did the only thing that could have avoided a giant online dumpster fire, and gave one of the scopes to each of the top three contestants. It was an expensive lesson in the failings of democracy (and in not using Facebook for anything important). So yeah, they should just paint the name on the boat and get over it. Keysight salvaged their marketing effort by taking the high road, but you can bet they won't run this contest the same way in the future. They're lucky they didn't have to give away three dozen 6 GHz scopes to random high school kids.

tamana 11y ago
Using Facebook to communicate is totally fine and great. Letting self-selectrd Facebook hordes make decisions is the mistake.