23 ms·

The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

242 points by pmcpinto 11y ago

dirktheman 11y ago
Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world. And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. Of the top 10 countries with the highest suicide rates, only Lithuania can be considered as having a somewhat gloomy winter. The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countries generally accepted as happiest in the world: Denmark (ironically, considering the story), Switzerland, Iceland and Norway.
- trhway 11y ago
  didn't know about Lithuania and googled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistic... - the lowest rate was in 1990, on breaking up from USSR and getting independence back.
  - tim333 11y ago
    I'm curious why it's so bad there. It neighbours Poland which has less than a quarter the rate. Cultural maybe?
    - trhway 11y ago
      (personal impression, not a professional sociologist obviously :) Poland is more capitalistic/enterpreneural in spirit and they have strong nationalistic drive (the Poland state had been destroyed and Polish land&people divided between neighbors several times for pretty prolonged periods during recent several centuries, yet still the country gets back every time it gets a chance) - as 1990 in Lithuania statistics suggests nationalistic drive can be a pretty strong factor too. It was the place that revolted in 1980 against the socialism and USSR control. Lithuania are much more calmer in all respects (i have a part of extended family there). If you look at statistics by age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistic... - it seems to be a typical mid-life crisis in a society without active vertical mobility.
  - kbart 11y ago
    I'm from Lithuania and suicide is really a big problem here. It's being discussed much why it's happening in media as well as professionally, but there's no clear consent. Some key reasons that comes up most often: 1) Society changes. After breakup with USSR in 1990, all collective farms were dismantled and majority of industry closed or restructured what caused a lot of people lose jobs and forced to change profession. This was hard/impossible for some, especially older people, who were used to work the same job for years or even the whole life. In first years it was partly offset by the excitement of independence, but as years went by, excitement faded away and problems remained. Even bigger impact was the mental change that you are responsible for your and your family well being and there's no longer government that takes care of every aspect of life. Some people still can't wrap their minds about this fact and blame government everything. Also, there are very few jobs in smaller towns/villages, so those who could, already fled to cities or abroad and those who couldn't are doomed to poverty which leads to the second reason. 2) Alcoholism. Lithuanians, as most northlings, are overly serious (if you smiled to strangers, locals around usually look suspiciously or even aggressively) and prone to depression what combined witch financial difficulties many faces (caused by 1) often leads seeking relief in alcohol that worsens depression even further. 3) Identity crisis (not discussed very often, mostly my thoughts). We are still in transitional state, where no longer belong to east, but not yet fully converted to western way of life. We lack self-dependence, motivation, initiative and risk taking attributes common for democratic westerners and keep looking back for somebody to lead and hold hand (the same strong leader cult as in Russia today). We are like a teen who fled his parent's home -- don't know where to go and what to do. These problems aren't unique and many post soviet countries have similar issues, though some simply cope with them better than others. Anyway I'm optimistic, because progress can be clearly seen in many areas (Lithuania has one of the fastest growing economies in EU) and many young people are doing better than their parents.
- tim333 11y ago
  That said I find it much more cheerful going off somewhere sunny when it's Jan/Feb in London. Maybe they could lay on some charter flights to Bahia or somewhere.
  - dirktheman 11y ago
    I live in The Netherlands. One week of sunshine in February is by far the best cure for the winter blues. It gives you something to look forward to in the darkest days, and when you return it's almost springtime. Well, psychologically at least...
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- masklinn 11y ago
  > The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countries generally accepted as happiest in the world: Denmark (ironically, considering the story), Switzerland, Iceland and Norway. South Korea as well, its latitude roughly matches the northern half of Tunisia (Seoul's latitude is 37°33′N, Tunisia's northernmost city of Bizerte is at 37°16′N) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catania
  - trhway 11y ago
    South Korea is definitely not about weather : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea#Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea#Age "The main cause of South Korea's relatively high suicide rate is due to the elderly's substantially high suicide rate, which is significantly dragging up the otherwise relatively low average rate. This is due to poor elderly people killing themselves not to be a burden on their families,..."
- Aaargh20318 11y ago
  > Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world I find articles like this highly annoying. I see the headline, think "if it's not the darkness, I wonder what is" and click the link expecting to find the answer. Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. How about we stop with crap like this, I don't need to hear a story, just the facts please. I've wasted several minutes on this story and still have no clue what the real reason is.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. [...] How about we stop with crap like this, I don't need to hear a story, just the facts please. I've wasted several minutes on this story and still have no clue what the real reason is. If you don't care for the lives affected by the phenomenon, then why would you be caring for the reason? That's something even less important to know if one doesn't care about the effects.
    - Aaargh20318 11y ago
      > If you don't care for the lives affected by the phenomenon, then why would you be caring for the reason? I'm interested in the mechanism, not some anecdotes about one or two specific people. I like complicated systems and how they work, this interest me because it could give me additional insight in how the human machine works. I don't need to be interested traveling to be interested in how a plane stays in the air or how the engine of a car works.
  - ethanbond 11y ago
    Well facts are usually more difficult to arrive at than you apparently think. Putting forward a hypothesis requires facts and a ton of "fluff." It seems to me that you're not actually interested in learning anything, you just want some factoids. Try the CIA Factbook.
    - Aaargh20318 11y ago
- ekianjo 11y ago
  > And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. That was obvious from the get go. Whoever even claimed this in the first place just did not bother to check facts for more than 5 minutes.
- jlg23 11y ago
  > The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) Guyana and Suriname have severe problems with their post-colonial status, very low income contrasted by wealth shown by western mining companies and their employees, a very big problem with alcoholism and very bad perspectives for most (soldiers turning barkeepers because they don't get paid, police extorting people in lieu of a living wage etc). I think the same reasons the author listed for Greenland might apply to those countries too.
cperciva 11y ago
When I saw the title I thought this was going to be about Canada. Suicide rates are extremely high in some aboriginal communities; in Attawapiskat for example, 5% of the residents have attempted suicide in the past year. And I can't say that I really blame them. Attawapiskat is an extremely isolated community, with few jobs and no amenities. Kids growing up in Attawapiskat have nothing to look forward to. Those who leave the community have much lower rates of suicide, but given the memories of children being taken away from their families and forced into abusive residential schools, no politician in their right mind would dare to suggest that as an option. So they live out their lives in miserable isolation, waiting for their boredom to end; and some decide to speed along the process.
- toyg 11y ago
  > Attawapiskat is an extremely isolated community, with few jobs and no amenities. Thing is, like the towns in the post, these have always been "isolated communities with few jobs", but they used to be somewhat content. The difference is that they (like everyone else) are now bombarded with very powerful messages about rich and successful white people living in the Big City. They are basically getting constantly shamed for doing what their ancestors have done for generations. Those same powers of connectedness that can be so positive in certain cases (e.g. alienated small-town geeks finding accepting communities elsewhere) can often turn out to be trojan horses for cultural shaming.
  - dopeboy 11y ago
    This is a very powerful point. The proliferation and ease of access to media has made it orders of magnitude easier to compare oneself against others. And it's not the "average" that make it into the media (usually) but the rich and successful as you mention. This is something I struggle with because a big reason why I've managed to do somewhat well in school and in my early career is because of being competitive and using comparison to fuel my work ethic. As an entrepreneur, I've come to realize I can't persist that mindset. There's always going to be people raising money and getting acquired. I have to filter that noise out and focus on building something that people want.
  - 11y ago
Kristine1975 11y ago
The novel "Smilla's Sense of Snow" by Peter Høeg is in large part about the alienation and culture shock of an Inuit woman in Denmark. P.S: I like the article's side bar about responsible reporting on suicide. That's forgotten far too often in the rush for gripping headlines and clicks.
- ridgeguy 11y ago
  I'll second "Smilla's Sense of Snow" as both a good read and a portal to some insight on issues in the NPR article.
julianpye 11y ago
I love, love, love Greenland. Best place I have ever been to. When I was spending time in Tasiilaq, I was told that the breakdown happened because of the fallout from the Greenpeace activities against seal clubbing in Canada. This destroyed the market for fur products and led to social welfare from Denmark and alcoholism. Anyway, when in Greenland it is politically correct to eat seal and whale, once you find out how they are hunted and how the population cherishes the animals. The coolest thing about Greenland was that the museums had no tools for warfare. Conflicts between people in Greenland were carried out by people playing drums and 'rapping' their cause in a song duel. If you had the laughs and opinions on your side, the person who 'lost' received sled dogs and food and was let go. I wish this could be used for all conflicts around the world.
- Symbiote 11y ago
  Seeking whale meat to tourists is completely against the spirit of subsistence whaling, and the reason Greenland lost its official whaling quota in 2013. I'm thinking of visiting, but there's no way I'll be eating whale.
  - julianpye 11y ago
    In rural areas when you get invited, often there is nothing else to eat. You don't get a menu. Most days you eat Seal (cooked for 5 hours). No side veggies. No spices. I do know that there were restaurants in Nuuk and Ilulissat selling whale meat on the menu. I guess mostly to Japanese customers, if you know the popularity of restaurants in Osaka or Tokyo selling whale meat. That is of course against the conditions of Aboriginal Subsistence Whaling.
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  I can't help thinking that if all world conflicts were resolved by rap battle, the US would be even more belligerent. What? You thought the East Coast versus West Coast divide was bad? Marijuana as export-controlled munitions? Colonel D-o-double-g and General Dre?
  - 11y ago
romanovcode 11y ago
This is wrong and have nothing to do with "successful white people" and quite frankly your remark is racist. Their ancestors were hunters and this gave them purpose in life as well as good diet which led to much happier life. Now they have nothing to do except watch TV and sit on their couch and eat bad food. Of course they are unhappy, you would be too.
- toyg 11y ago
  Bad food and TV didn't materialise out of thin air, they are part and parcel of that cultural bombing I was talking about. I struggle to see how it's racist to admit that white people traditionally own and define the mainstream culture of places like Denmark and Canada. You cannot fix a problem if you don't admit you have one; the main problem here is that modern mainstream white capitalist culture (to which I belong and partake) might not necessarily suit all environments and all communities, and we have to find ways around that. EDIT: note that I don't have anything against "successful white people", I'm just pointing out that our culture constantly sends out messages saying you should be like (some of) them, which might not be the best course of action in all situations. Zuck himself does not tell the media to glorify him, but they do it anyway; he might not be the best role model for the average not-white, not-male, not-Californian, not-Stanford-attending, not-programming-passionate person though, and when a lot of these not-zuck-like people see the Zuck-worshiping, they get a metaphorical kick in the teeth. Same for Hollywood celebs and so on. This is what I meant.
  - haberman 11y ago
    I can't speak to the Danish and Canadian media, but the American media also glorify Barack Obama, Malala Yousafzai, Amit Singhal, Russell Wilson, Chris Rock, the Dalai Lama, Beyoncé, Bruno Mars, Prince, etc. Also the only major motion picture depicting Zuck makes him look like kind of an asshole.
- warfangle 11y ago
  Racism requires oppression, as it's a systematic way of oppression based on race. Are Inuits (or gp's comment) coming from a place of power where they can oppress white people? No? Then that comment wasn't racist, fuckwad.
exDM69 11y ago
I live 60 degrees northern latitude in a country with bad suicide statistics and the winters do get pretty harsh on you mentally. And there's still millions of people living norther than I do. Highest suicide rates occur during the spring, around the vernal equinox not around the darkest time of the year. If you've never experienced the northern spring where each day is 10+ minutes longer than the previous, you'll never understand it. It just fucks up your mind in ways that are hard to describe. My kitchen psychology thinks the high suicide rates in the spring may be related to the fact that people around you start to get more positive and active (some too much so) but if you're suffering from a bad depression, seeing that around you will make it worse. It's not just suicides that peak. It also affects breakup/divorce rates as well as forming new relationships. It probably affects professional careers too, but I don't know if there are stats about it. The long, dark winters and the rapid change that follows brings out some very primal sides. That being said, I'd recommend travel to the extreme latitudes around the solstices, both of them. side note: we have about 15 hour long days at the moment. It's still pretty dark at night but I can't wait for the summer when you can see the sunset and sunrise at the same time if you look to the north at around midnight... it's magical.
- blazespin 11y ago
  It's coldest about 30 minutes into dawn. Spring suicides could just because the new amount of daylight has yet to have enough impact to reverse the depression of the dark winter.
- Arnt 11y ago
  When you're deep blue in the winter, people tell you that the sun will come back. When you still feel blue in the spring things sort of fall apart. I wish I could move back north, even so.
- warfangle 11y ago
  When people are really depressed, they don't kill themselves. Because they have no energy to. Once they go on antidepressants, they go on suicide watch. It's the most dangerous time. Because they'll still be depressed, but they'll finally have the energy to get up. And they just might have the energy to do themselves in.
wille92 11y ago
Whenever I read about tribal communities coming into modernity, I can't help but think that our "first-world" culture gets a lot wrong. These communities seem to have a deep sense of narrative--you're a part of a greater cultural story, a spiritual story that's connected with place, nature, and family. There is a journey laid out for you rich with sacrament (e.g. the rite of passage to become an Inuit hunter in this article). I can't help but feel that the modern world has lost this purposeful way of life. In the modern world, we're really left up to our own devices to figure out where we fit in and what we find meaningful. Would love to hear other's thoughts.
- ihsw 11y ago
  That's the idea -- that society is rigid whereas this one is open. Some people can't handle the openness, they just want somewhere to fit into. Setting aside predictable culture clash, the fundamental issue is misaligned standards and expectations. Some communities need strong male leaders that everybody can orbit around, and there are none. They're all just trying to help people get by when there's more to life than just surviving -- it's about wanting more.
- eli_gottlieb 11y ago
  Know any "greater cultural stories" that don't involve obviously false claims about the supernatural, obvious structural oppression of entire categories of people, or obvious rationalization of exploitative power structures?
- squeaky-clean 11y ago
  I recently read Sapiens by Yuval Harari, and this is a recurring theme in the book. "Collective fictions" throughout human history, the different forms of these myths, and how they help a society grow, or need to change as one does grow. One sort of related example is local religions versus universal, missionary religions. The majority of religions in history have been local and exclusive. Deities such as nature/animal spirits and the like, other tribes may have their own spirits in their own regions, and there is no need to convert people outside of your regions. But the most successful religions are ones are universal and missionary; they believe that their religion is affects everyone, regardless of whether they believe it (and is often the only true religion), and that for some reason, it is beneficial to convert others to your religion. Ideas like money, capitalism, art, really anything not essential to the biology of humans, are such "fictions", and the most successful (from any evolutionary standpoint) societies are the ones that have or adapt the most effective "fictions" for their societies. I guess to put it in HN terms, "how scalable are your beliefs?" A lot of the old ways we've lost touch with, or never had, aren't helpful to modern society. A hunting trip in which you become a man doesn't amount to much in a society with mega-farms, slaughter mills and processed foods that don't expire immediately. Instead, our equivalent goals would be like "get a degree, get another degree, get a job". You're an adult when you're old enough to vote, and so on. There's a lot of other topics as well, but that's what stuck with me the most and my interpretation of it. It's fascinating to think about.
brianzelip 11y ago
Didn't read past them hopping in a boat w rifles, but the novel 'From the Mouth of the Whale' by Icelandic author Sjón is a serious dive into an Arctic psyche. Highly recommended. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_Mouth_of_the_Whale https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_Mouth_of_the_Whale
golemotron 11y ago
If you want to cut through the fluff search for "Why?" in the text of the article. More articles should do this.
msdos 11y ago
And yet, she felt sure that doing something had to be better than doing nothing.
Overtonwindow 11y ago
This reminds me so much of Native American communities in America. Loss of culture, feelings of no hope, no jobs, no opportunities, it's one of the worst feelings to have. When there's nothing else to do, and no hope of things getting better, suicide seems like the easy option. Very good article.
sevenless 11y ago
The section talking about contagion was interesting. What follows is pure speculation on my part and a bit of a ramble. I believe many mental illnesses, depression, suicidal behavior and anorexia among them, can be characterized as contagious. And perhaps some other things that aren't usually described as mental illnesses. The border between belief, religion and mental illness seems a bit fuzzy (echoes of Snow Crash). Small isolated communities must be much more susceptible to contagion taking hold, as single events have a great sway over perceptions, and there are few connections with a larger world to normalize things. Charles Stross said something about the internet that stuck with me: "the accidental invention of telepathy". Just like public water supplies opened up new vectors for diseases such as cholera, I wonder if the internet's ability to more or less put minds directly in touch can facilitate the spread of certain mental illnesses. Consuming unfiltered internet might be looked on in a few years like drinking unsterilized water. In particular, I wonder if certain "echo chamber" social websites that allow easy isolation from mainstream opinion (Tumblr and 4chan, I'm looking at you) might be analogous to these dangerous isolated communities.
- simonswords82 11y ago
  This is a very interesting thought process. Tumblr and 4chan in my mind are extreme examples of the unsterilised Internet you refer to.... > Consuming unfiltered internet might be looked on in a few years like drinking unsterilized water For the last year or so I've decided to avoid news outlets as much as possible. So I've updated my Reddit subscriptions to remove anything that might be a news channel, I no longer frequent the BBC news website, and avoid newspapers and TV news as best I can. The constant fear mongering and general bad news is at times overwhelming but oftentimes just unnecessarily miserable (IMO). It's like being given a long list of problems you can't do anything about. So I've decided to simply switch it off. I would much prefer your approach where my news could somehow be "sterilised", taking out anything that is overtly negative leaving only factual stories (e.g. business, technology and so on).
  - onetimePete 11y ago
    I have my very own opinion on people who refuse to perceive the reality of the human mind. If one has trapped himself in such a bubble, he/she is unfit to really communicate with other human beings, lead endeavor of complex composed groups and manage endeavors going into crisis situations. Please, if you ever form a team, state your perception of the species ahead of time, so people know what they are in for. The negative is a building block of reality, it has to be seen, it has to be handled, worked with, contained and used. One should not work as director if one is unable to communicate and take the company of for example bipolar people. Please don't take this as a insult. I just think your way of not viewing the world is dangerous and should be made obvious via disclaimer. Which in a way you have made with this post, so please do this in future conversations. Regards.
stared 11y ago
Just by looking at the title it brought to my mind "The Thing". ;) See also this trailer, which I like a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwNoqgg474s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwNoqgg474s (not the original movie, not the remake - but a StarCraft 2 mod allowing to play a mafia/werewolf-style game).
andrewguenther 11y ago
If you haven't read "The Tipping Point," it also talks about this same issue and is all around a great read. https://amzn.com/0316346624 https://amzn.com/0316346624
misalyogeshwar 11y ago
I can't imagine how much hard work needed to put this story out to people...great journalism.. Also I wish situation in greenland improves in futurw...
gumby 11y ago
I was struck by the comment by the woman who answered the suicide line: "Maybe I am giving them a little love." I spent years answering the phone on a crisis line. Some people's problems just didn't seem that bad, yet they were overwhelmed nonetheless. Some people had such crushing burdens I was astonished they could even talk. I didn't find it uplifting, in fact it drained me. I am astonished by her ability to do it for almost 20 years. I guess it was a form of catharsis for her as well.
- brndn 11y ago
  Where did you do this? Is there a high demand for volunteers? Is it easy to get started with? Is it common to do this work "remotely" or "on-call" by carry around a cell phone?
  - gumby 11y ago
    I did this in Boston back in the 1980s. At that time there was a shortage, but nevertheless they screened us and trained us and provided support services to us. No mobile phones; I would go there two evenings a week (we were all volunteers). I did this first at my school, MIT (which didn't thank goodness, get suicide calls when I was there though there were suicides and we did get calls about the consequences) and later for the Boston area, where we did get actual suicide calls. I recently learned that MIT had shut down the service -- I don't know why. If you're interested just look on the web for suicide prevention hotline and you'll find the name of an organization in your area. I don't if they still use volunteers or what these days. My experience is 30 years old.
    - brndn 11y ago
      Thanks for the info. It is something I have wanted to look into.
- rconti 11y ago
  When I was most depressed in life was mid-late teens. It's a rough time for everyone, really. The search for romantic love, or at least what you imagine it to be. All that. I had some really dark times, but fortunately I made it out. It wasn't very long before I began to see that the periods of depression -- even though they felt really real at the time -- just didn't make sense. I'd keep a journal, and if I read it later (or, worse, tried to write the journal entry after the feeling had passed), none of it made sense. I mean, the words made sense, but the feelings didn't. I wonder if part of what got me out of it was just learning to manage those times. I knew I felt terrible, but I also knew it didn't make sense, and that in 3 days I'd recognize how little sense it made. So I just had to ride it out. Now in my mid 30s, I have some anxiety that nobody else can see, and it rarely troubles me. But it's the same pattern-- when it bothers me, I feel completely overwhelmed by the silliest little thing (or collection of things). Not only burdens that others wouldn't think twice about, but ones that I myself handle regularly without issue. We've all got things we're incapable of dealing with. Everyone's limits are different. And I think, for everyone, they change all the time.
e12e 11y ago
As someone who grew up in Tromsø, Norway (69 degrees northern latitude), I've always found the idea that long winters and depression go together a strange one (That's not to say there aren't a lot of people in Tromsø that struggle with sleep[1], or that there are no winter depressions). As a counterpoint to this article's title (but not content, really), there was an interesting piece a while back about seasons and psyche: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/07/the-norwegian-town-where-the-sun-doesnt-rise/396746/ http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/07/the-norweg... TL;DR: Mindset matters. If you don't like winter, then a long dark winter isn't much fun: "The survey results indicated that wintertime mindset may indeed play a role in mental health and well-being in Norway. The Wintertime Mindset Scale had strong positive correlations with every measure of well-being we examined, including the Satisfaction with Life Scale (a widely used survey that measures general life satisfaction), and the Personal Growth Composite (a scale that measures openness to new challenges). The people who had a positive wintertime mindset, in other words, tended to be the same people who were highly satisfied with their lives and who pursued personal growth." [1] On a somewhat related note, I highly recommend the Norwegian original film "Insomnia" (the basis for the American remake with Al Pacino): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119375/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119375/

242 points by pmcpinto 11y ago

Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world. And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. Of the top 10 countries with the highest suicide rates, only Lithuania can be considered as having a somewhat gloomy winter. The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countries generally accepted as happiest in the world: Denmark (ironically, considering the story), Switzerland, Iceland and Norway.

trhway 11y ago
didn't know about Lithuania and googled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistic... - the lowest rate was in 1990, on breaking up from USSR and getting independence back.
- tim333 11y ago
  I'm curious why it's so bad there. It neighbours Poland which has less than a quarter the rate. Cultural maybe?
  - trhway 11y ago
    (personal impression, not a professional sociologist obviously :) Poland is more capitalistic/enterpreneural in spirit and they have strong nationalistic drive (the Poland state had been destroyed and Polish land&people divided between neighbors several times for pretty prolonged periods during recent several centuries, yet still the country gets back every time it gets a chance) - as 1990 in Lithuania statistics suggests nationalistic drive can be a pretty strong factor too. It was the place that revolted in 1980 against the socialism and USSR control. Lithuania are much more calmer in all respects (i have a part of extended family there). If you look at statistics by age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Lithuania#Statistic... - it seems to be a typical mid-life crisis in a society without active vertical mobility.
- kbart 11y ago
  I'm from Lithuania and suicide is really a big problem here. It's being discussed much why it's happening in media as well as professionally, but there's no clear consent. Some key reasons that comes up most often: 1) Society changes. After breakup with USSR in 1990, all collective farms were dismantled and majority of industry closed or restructured what caused a lot of people lose jobs and forced to change profession. This was hard/impossible for some, especially older people, who were used to work the same job for years or even the whole life. In first years it was partly offset by the excitement of independence, but as years went by, excitement faded away and problems remained. Even bigger impact was the mental change that you are responsible for your and your family well being and there's no longer government that takes care of every aspect of life. Some people still can't wrap their minds about this fact and blame government everything. Also, there are very few jobs in smaller towns/villages, so those who could, already fled to cities or abroad and those who couldn't are doomed to poverty which leads to the second reason. 2) Alcoholism. Lithuanians, as most northlings, are overly serious (if you smiled to strangers, locals around usually look suspiciously or even aggressively) and prone to depression what combined witch financial difficulties many faces (caused by 1) often leads seeking relief in alcohol that worsens depression even further. 3) Identity crisis (not discussed very often, mostly my thoughts). We are still in transitional state, where no longer belong to east, but not yet fully converted to western way of life. We lack self-dependence, motivation, initiative and risk taking attributes common for democratic westerners and keep looking back for somebody to lead and hold hand (the same strong leader cult as in Russia today). We are like a teen who fled his parent's home -- don't know where to go and what to do. These problems aren't unique and many post soviet countries have similar issues, though some simply cope with them better than others. Anyway I'm optimistic, because progress can be clearly seen in many areas (Lithuania has one of the fastest growing economies in EU) and many young people are doing better than their parents.
tim333 11y ago
That said I find it much more cheerful going off somewhere sunny when it's Jan/Feb in London. Maybe they could lay on some charter flights to Bahia or somewhere.
- dirktheman 11y ago
  I live in The Netherlands. One week of sunshine in February is by far the best cure for the winter blues. It gives you something to look forward to in the darkest days, and when you return it's almost springtime. Well, psychologically at least...
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
masklinn 11y ago
> The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countries generally accepted as happiest in the world: Denmark (ironically, considering the story), Switzerland, Iceland and Norway. South Korea as well, its latitude roughly matches the northern half of Tunisia (Seoul's latitude is 37°33′N, Tunisia's northernmost city of Bizerte is at 37°16′N) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catania
- trhway 11y ago
  South Korea is definitely not about weather : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea#Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea#Age "The main cause of South Korea's relatively high suicide rate is due to the elderly's substantially high suicide rate, which is significantly dragging up the otherwise relatively low average rate. This is due to poor elderly people killing themselves not to be a burden on their families,..."
Aaargh20318 11y ago
> Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world I find articles like this highly annoying. I see the headline, think "if it's not the darkness, I wonder what is" and click the link expecting to find the answer. Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. How about we stop with crap like this, I don't need to hear a story, just the facts please. I've wasted several minutes on this story and still have no clue what the real reason is.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >Instead of the answer, however, I get a fluffy human-interest piece that I simply do not care about. [...] How about we stop with crap like this, I don't need to hear a story, just the facts please. I've wasted several minutes on this story and still have no clue what the real reason is. If you don't care for the lives affected by the phenomenon, then why would you be caring for the reason? That's something even less important to know if one doesn't care about the effects.
  - Aaargh20318 11y ago
    > If you don't care for the lives affected by the phenomenon, then why would you be caring for the reason? I'm interested in the mechanism, not some anecdotes about one or two specific people. I like complicated systems and how they work, this interest me because it could give me additional insight in how the human machine works. I don't need to be interested traveling to be interested in how a plane stays in the air or how the engine of a car works.
- ethanbond 11y ago
  Well facts are usually more difficult to arrive at than you apparently think. Putting forward a hypothesis requires facts and a ton of "fluff." It seems to me that you're not actually interested in learning anything, you just want some factoids. Try the CIA Factbook.
  - Aaargh20318 11y ago
ekianjo 11y ago
> And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. That was obvious from the get go. Whoever even claimed this in the first place just did not bother to check facts for more than 5 minutes.
jlg23 11y ago
> The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) Guyana and Suriname have severe problems with their post-colonial status, very low income contrasted by wealth shown by western mining companies and their employees, a very big problem with alcoholism and very bad perspectives for most (soldiers turning barkeepers because they don't get paid, police extorting people in lieu of a living wage etc). I think the same reasons the author listed for Greenland might apply to those countries too.

cperciva 11y ago

When I saw the title I thought this was going to be about Canada. Suicide rates are extremely high in some aboriginal communities; in Attawapiskat for example, 5% of the residents have attempted suicide in the past year. And I can't say that I really blame them. Attawapiskat is an extremely isolated community, with few jobs and no amenities. Kids growing up in Attawapiskat have nothing to look forward to. Those who leave the community have much lower rates of suicide, but given the memories of children being taken away from their families and forced into abusive residential schools, no politician in their right mind would dare to suggest that as an option. So they live out their lives in miserable isolation, waiting for their boredom to end; and some decide to speed along the process.

toyg 11y ago
> Attawapiskat is an extremely isolated community, with few jobs and no amenities. Thing is, like the towns in the post, these have always been "isolated communities with few jobs", but they used to be somewhat content. The difference is that they (like everyone else) are now bombarded with very powerful messages about rich and successful white people living in the Big City. They are basically getting constantly shamed for doing what their ancestors have done for generations. Those same powers of connectedness that can be so positive in certain cases (e.g. alienated small-town geeks finding accepting communities elsewhere) can often turn out to be trojan horses for cultural shaming.
- dopeboy 11y ago
  This is a very powerful point. The proliferation and ease of access to media has made it orders of magnitude easier to compare oneself against others. And it's not the "average" that make it into the media (usually) but the rich and successful as you mention. This is something I struggle with because a big reason why I've managed to do somewhat well in school and in my early career is because of being competitive and using comparison to fuel my work ethic. As an entrepreneur, I've come to realize I can't persist that mindset. There's always going to be people raising money and getting acquired. I have to filter that noise out and focus on building something that people want.
- 11y ago

Kristine1975 11y ago

The novel "Smilla's Sense of Snow" by Peter Høeg is in large part about the alienation and culture shock of an Inuit woman in Denmark. P.S: I like the article's side bar about responsible reporting on suicide. That's forgotten far too often in the rush for gripping headlines and clicks.

ridgeguy 11y ago
I'll second "Smilla's Sense of Snow" as both a good read and a portal to some insight on issues in the NPR article.

julianpye 11y ago

I love, love, love Greenland. Best place I have ever been to. When I was spending time in Tasiilaq, I was told that the breakdown happened because of the fallout from the Greenpeace activities against seal clubbing in Canada. This destroyed the market for fur products and led to social welfare from Denmark and alcoholism. Anyway, when in Greenland it is politically correct to eat seal and whale, once you find out how they are hunted and how the population cherishes the animals. The coolest thing about Greenland was that the museums had no tools for warfare. Conflicts between people in Greenland were carried out by people playing drums and 'rapping' their cause in a song duel. If you had the laughs and opinions on your side, the person who 'lost' received sled dogs and food and was let go. I wish this could be used for all conflicts around the world.

Symbiote 11y ago
Seeking whale meat to tourists is completely against the spirit of subsistence whaling, and the reason Greenland lost its official whaling quota in 2013. I'm thinking of visiting, but there's no way I'll be eating whale.
- julianpye 11y ago
  In rural areas when you get invited, often there is nothing else to eat. You don't get a menu. Most days you eat Seal (cooked for 5 hours). No side veggies. No spices. I do know that there were restaurants in Nuuk and Ilulissat selling whale meat on the menu. I guess mostly to Japanese customers, if you know the popularity of restaurants in Osaka or Tokyo selling whale meat. That is of course against the conditions of Aboriginal Subsistence Whaling.
logfromblammo 11y ago
I can't help thinking that if all world conflicts were resolved by rap battle, the US would be even more belligerent. What? You thought the East Coast versus West Coast divide was bad? Marijuana as export-controlled munitions? Colonel D-o-double-g and General Dre?
- 11y ago

romanovcode 11y ago

This is wrong and have nothing to do with "successful white people" and quite frankly your remark is racist. Their ancestors were hunters and this gave them purpose in life as well as good diet which led to much happier life. Now they have nothing to do except watch TV and sit on their couch and eat bad food. Of course they are unhappy, you would be too.

toyg 11y ago
Bad food and TV didn't materialise out of thin air, they are part and parcel of that cultural bombing I was talking about. I struggle to see how it's racist to admit that white people traditionally own and define the mainstream culture of places like Denmark and Canada. You cannot fix a problem if you don't admit you have one; the main problem here is that modern mainstream white capitalist culture (to which I belong and partake) might not necessarily suit all environments and all communities, and we have to find ways around that. EDIT: note that I don't have anything against "successful white people", I'm just pointing out that our culture constantly sends out messages saying you should be like (some of) them, which might not be the best course of action in all situations. Zuck himself does not tell the media to glorify him, but they do it anyway; he might not be the best role model for the average not-white, not-male, not-Californian, not-Stanford-attending, not-programming-passionate person though, and when a lot of these not-zuck-like people see the Zuck-worshiping, they get a metaphorical kick in the teeth. Same for Hollywood celebs and so on. This is what I meant.
- haberman 11y ago
  I can't speak to the Danish and Canadian media, but the American media also glorify Barack Obama, Malala Yousafzai, Amit Singhal, Russell Wilson, Chris Rock, the Dalai Lama, Beyoncé, Bruno Mars, Prince, etc. Also the only major motion picture depicting Zuck makes him look like kind of an asshole.
warfangle 11y ago
Racism requires oppression, as it's a systematic way of oppression based on race. Are Inuits (or gp's comment) coming from a place of power where they can oppress white people? No? Then that comment wasn't racist, fuckwad.

exDM69 11y ago

I live 60 degrees northern latitude in a country with bad suicide statistics and the winters do get pretty harsh on you mentally. And there's still millions of people living norther than I do. Highest suicide rates occur during the spring, around the vernal equinox not around the darkest time of the year. If you've never experienced the northern spring where each day is 10+ minutes longer than the previous, you'll never understand it. It just fucks up your mind in ways that are hard to describe. My kitchen psychology thinks the high suicide rates in the spring may be related to the fact that people around you start to get more positive and active (some too much so) but if you're suffering from a bad depression, seeing that around you will make it worse. It's not just suicides that peak. It also affects breakup/divorce rates as well as forming new relationships. It probably affects professional careers too, but I don't know if there are stats about it. The long, dark winters and the rapid change that follows brings out some very primal sides. That being said, I'd recommend travel to the extreme latitudes around the solstices, both of them. side note: we have about 15 hour long days at the moment. It's still pretty dark at night but I can't wait for the summer when you can see the sunset and sunrise at the same time if you look to the north at around midnight... it's magical.

blazespin 11y ago
It's coldest about 30 minutes into dawn. Spring suicides could just because the new amount of daylight has yet to have enough impact to reverse the depression of the dark winter.
Arnt 11y ago
When you're deep blue in the winter, people tell you that the sun will come back. When you still feel blue in the spring things sort of fall apart. I wish I could move back north, even so.
warfangle 11y ago
When people are really depressed, they don't kill themselves. Because they have no energy to. Once they go on antidepressants, they go on suicide watch. It's the most dangerous time. Because they'll still be depressed, but they'll finally have the energy to get up. And they just might have the energy to do themselves in.

wille92 11y ago

Whenever I read about tribal communities coming into modernity, I can't help but think that our "first-world" culture gets a lot wrong. These communities seem to have a deep sense of narrative--you're a part of a greater cultural story, a spiritual story that's connected with place, nature, and family. There is a journey laid out for you rich with sacrament (e.g. the rite of passage to become an Inuit hunter in this article). I can't help but feel that the modern world has lost this purposeful way of life. In the modern world, we're really left up to our own devices to figure out where we fit in and what we find meaningful. Would love to hear other's thoughts.

ihsw 11y ago
That's the idea -- that society is rigid whereas this one is open. Some people can't handle the openness, they just want somewhere to fit into. Setting aside predictable culture clash, the fundamental issue is misaligned standards and expectations. Some communities need strong male leaders that everybody can orbit around, and there are none. They're all just trying to help people get by when there's more to life than just surviving -- it's about wanting more.
eli_gottlieb 11y ago
Know any "greater cultural stories" that don't involve obviously false claims about the supernatural, obvious structural oppression of entire categories of people, or obvious rationalization of exploitative power structures?
squeaky-clean 11y ago
I recently read Sapiens by Yuval Harari, and this is a recurring theme in the book. "Collective fictions" throughout human history, the different forms of these myths, and how they help a society grow, or need to change as one does grow. One sort of related example is local religions versus universal, missionary religions. The majority of religions in history have been local and exclusive. Deities such as nature/animal spirits and the like, other tribes may have their own spirits in their own regions, and there is no need to convert people outside of your regions. But the most successful religions are ones are universal and missionary; they believe that their religion is affects everyone, regardless of whether they believe it (and is often the only true religion), and that for some reason, it is beneficial to convert others to your religion. Ideas like money, capitalism, art, really anything not essential to the biology of humans, are such "fictions", and the most successful (from any evolutionary standpoint) societies are the ones that have or adapt the most effective "fictions" for their societies. I guess to put it in HN terms, "how scalable are your beliefs?" A lot of the old ways we've lost touch with, or never had, aren't helpful to modern society. A hunting trip in which you become a man doesn't amount to much in a society with mega-farms, slaughter mills and processed foods that don't expire immediately. Instead, our equivalent goals would be like "get a degree, get another degree, get a job". You're an adult when you're old enough to vote, and so on. There's a lot of other topics as well, but that's what stuck with me the most and my interpretation of it. It's fascinating to think about.

brianzelip 11y ago

Didn't read past them hopping in a boat w rifles, but the novel 'From the Mouth of the Whale' by Icelandic author Sjón is a serious dive into an Arctic psyche. Highly recommended. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_Mouth_of_the_Whale https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_Mouth_of_the_Whale

golemotron 11y ago

If you want to cut through the fluff search for "Why?" in the text of the article. More articles should do this.

msdos 11y ago

And yet, she felt sure that doing something had to be better than doing nothing.

Overtonwindow 11y ago

This reminds me so much of Native American communities in America. Loss of culture, feelings of no hope, no jobs, no opportunities, it's one of the worst feelings to have. When there's nothing else to do, and no hope of things getting better, suicide seems like the easy option. Very good article.

sevenless 11y ago

The section talking about contagion was interesting. What follows is pure speculation on my part and a bit of a ramble. I believe many mental illnesses, depression, suicidal behavior and anorexia among them, can be characterized as contagious. And perhaps some other things that aren't usually described as mental illnesses. The border between belief, religion and mental illness seems a bit fuzzy (echoes of Snow Crash). Small isolated communities must be much more susceptible to contagion taking hold, as single events have a great sway over perceptions, and there are few connections with a larger world to normalize things. Charles Stross said something about the internet that stuck with me: "the accidental invention of telepathy". Just like public water supplies opened up new vectors for diseases such as cholera, I wonder if the internet's ability to more or less put minds directly in touch can facilitate the spread of certain mental illnesses. Consuming unfiltered internet might be looked on in a few years like drinking unsterilized water. In particular, I wonder if certain "echo chamber" social websites that allow easy isolation from mainstream opinion (Tumblr and 4chan, I'm looking at you) might be analogous to these dangerous isolated communities.

simonswords82 11y ago
This is a very interesting thought process. Tumblr and 4chan in my mind are extreme examples of the unsterilised Internet you refer to.... > Consuming unfiltered internet might be looked on in a few years like drinking unsterilized water For the last year or so I've decided to avoid news outlets as much as possible. So I've updated my Reddit subscriptions to remove anything that might be a news channel, I no longer frequent the BBC news website, and avoid newspapers and TV news as best I can. The constant fear mongering and general bad news is at times overwhelming but oftentimes just unnecessarily miserable (IMO). It's like being given a long list of problems you can't do anything about. So I've decided to simply switch it off. I would much prefer your approach where my news could somehow be "sterilised", taking out anything that is overtly negative leaving only factual stories (e.g. business, technology and so on).
- onetimePete 11y ago
  I have my very own opinion on people who refuse to perceive the reality of the human mind. If one has trapped himself in such a bubble, he/she is unfit to really communicate with other human beings, lead endeavor of complex composed groups and manage endeavors going into crisis situations. Please, if you ever form a team, state your perception of the species ahead of time, so people know what they are in for. The negative is a building block of reality, it has to be seen, it has to be handled, worked with, contained and used. One should not work as director if one is unable to communicate and take the company of for example bipolar people. Please don't take this as a insult. I just think your way of not viewing the world is dangerous and should be made obvious via disclaimer. Which in a way you have made with this post, so please do this in future conversations. Regards.

stared 11y ago

Just by looking at the title it brought to my mind "The Thing". ;) See also this trailer, which I like a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwNoqgg474s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwNoqgg474s (not the original movie, not the remake - but a StarCraft 2 mod allowing to play a mafia/werewolf-style game).

andrewguenther 11y ago

If you haven't read "The Tipping Point," it also talks about this same issue and is all around a great read. https://amzn.com/0316346624 https://amzn.com/0316346624

misalyogeshwar 11y ago

I can't imagine how much hard work needed to put this story out to people...great journalism.. Also I wish situation in greenland improves in futurw...

gumby 11y ago

I was struck by the comment by the woman who answered the suicide line: "Maybe I am giving them a little love." I spent years answering the phone on a crisis line. Some people's problems just didn't seem that bad, yet they were overwhelmed nonetheless. Some people had such crushing burdens I was astonished they could even talk. I didn't find it uplifting, in fact it drained me. I am astonished by her ability to do it for almost 20 years. I guess it was a form of catharsis for her as well.

brndn 11y ago
Where did you do this? Is there a high demand for volunteers? Is it easy to get started with? Is it common to do this work "remotely" or "on-call" by carry around a cell phone?
- gumby 11y ago
  I did this in Boston back in the 1980s. At that time there was a shortage, but nevertheless they screened us and trained us and provided support services to us. No mobile phones; I would go there two evenings a week (we were all volunteers). I did this first at my school, MIT (which didn't thank goodness, get suicide calls when I was there though there were suicides and we did get calls about the consequences) and later for the Boston area, where we did get actual suicide calls. I recently learned that MIT had shut down the service -- I don't know why. If you're interested just look on the web for suicide prevention hotline and you'll find the name of an organization in your area. I don't if they still use volunteers or what these days. My experience is 30 years old.
  - brndn 11y ago
    Thanks for the info. It is something I have wanted to look into.
rconti 11y ago
When I was most depressed in life was mid-late teens. It's a rough time for everyone, really. The search for romantic love, or at least what you imagine it to be. All that. I had some really dark times, but fortunately I made it out. It wasn't very long before I began to see that the periods of depression -- even though they felt really real at the time -- just didn't make sense. I'd keep a journal, and if I read it later (or, worse, tried to write the journal entry after the feeling had passed), none of it made sense. I mean, the words made sense, but the feelings didn't. I wonder if part of what got me out of it was just learning to manage those times. I knew I felt terrible, but I also knew it didn't make sense, and that in 3 days I'd recognize how little sense it made. So I just had to ride it out. Now in my mid 30s, I have some anxiety that nobody else can see, and it rarely troubles me. But it's the same pattern-- when it bothers me, I feel completely overwhelmed by the silliest little thing (or collection of things). Not only burdens that others wouldn't think twice about, but ones that I myself handle regularly without issue. We've all got things we're incapable of dealing with. Everyone's limits are different. And I think, for everyone, they change all the time.

e12e 11y ago

As someone who grew up in Tromsø, Norway (69 degrees northern latitude), I've always found the idea that long winters and depression go together a strange one (That's not to say there aren't a lot of people in Tromsø that struggle with sleep[1], or that there are no winter depressions). As a counterpoint to this article's title (but not content, really), there was an interesting piece a while back about seasons and psyche: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/07/the-norwegian-town-where-the-sun-doesnt-rise/396746/ http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/07/the-norweg... TL;DR: Mindset matters. If you don't like winter, then a long dark winter isn't much fun: "The survey results indicated that wintertime mindset may indeed play a role in mental health and well-being in Norway. The Wintertime Mindset Scale had strong positive correlations with every measure of well-being we examined, including the Satisfaction with Life Scale (a widely used survey that measures general life satisfaction), and the Personal Growth Composite (a scale that measures openness to new challenges). The people who had a positive wintertime mindset, in other words, tended to be the same people who were highly satisfied with their lives and who pursued personal growth." [1] On a somewhat related note, I highly recommend the Norwegian original film "Insomnia" (the basis for the American remake with Al Pacino): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119375/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119375/