21 ms·

A Protocol for Dying

• dforshtay 10y ago
  Thank you, Pieter. This brings up my 80 year-old father's death by cancer 8 years ago. The end came less than two weeks after the diagnosis, despite the doctor estimating 3-6 months. Having flown halfway across the USA, I was fortunate to be there for his last two hours, unlike one brother, who arrived a day late. I wish I had come with happy memories to share, but the suddenness and shock of seeing him holding on by a slender thread obliterated such thoughts. I took over for the at-home hospice nurses and ministered care according to his heart and respiratory rates. My mother had prayed in the next room, "Lord, take this good man," and it was obvious that his end was imminent. Oddly, my experience felt similar to seeing the Twin Towers burn from a mile across the Hudson River. My eyes were riveted to the inferno until I turned to look away, then magically believed that when I returned my gaze everything would be right and intact. Dad's eyes never opened, but his expression brightened when I said, "Dad, it's Dave." After hearing my mom's prayer, I busied myself with his nursing care, but was stymied about what to say. I had already told him the most important things on the phone after hearing the news from him that he was dying without regrets. He was lucid and conversant then. Now, he was teetering between states of coma and listening heart. When my mother stepped into the hallway outside their condo, I counted his respirations – 32 per minute – and gave him a dropper of lorazepam, as directed. I said to him: "I can't ask you to stick around." I wanted him to know it was okay to let go but had no other words to say it. Facially, he shrugged. Thus did he begin his final retreat. I called my oldest brother and his son into the room and we called his name as he drew his last breaths. When Mom returned it was all over. I still wonder, if I had come with loving memories to share, would he have held on through the night and into the next morning, long enough for his middle son to say goodbye? It could be my life's project to write about my father, but my life has too much urgency to reflect so long on the past. Maybe things will settle enough for that in the future, but not now. I am grateful for your valuable experience and will explore your writings. You are helping your family and others with everything you've done. I believe you are having a marvelous adventure. David Forshtay
• rochacbruno 10y ago
  We translated to Portuguese https://medium.com/@rochacbruno/um-protocolo-para-morrer-661541f5ab9#.mq6he8rf1 https://medium.com/@rochacbruno/um-protocolo-para-morrer-661...
• emirozer 11y ago
  Pieter, in the article you wrote "Think of the Children" and wanted readers to write stories, which is a really nice idea.. How about we think of the children and donate some money? Is it possible to share a donation address/endpoint ?
  • johnbaum1968 11y ago
    From another post: Well this is really kind. Yes, I'm pretty broke and have three young children who will be semi orphans. Cue violins. Happy to receive on PayPal at ph@imatix.com. I will give my family the keys to that so they can put it aside for ma wee bairns... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11528967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11528967
    • emirozer 11y ago
      Thank you for the info! But I also think that this will not get a lot of coverage, if I need to learn this address from a comment in HN.. Hope it does somehow..
      • rbanffy 11y ago
        It is in a comment at the original article.
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
• tajen 11y ago
  The author has cancer and explains what he prefers to hear and live before he dies.
• jkarneges 11y ago
  I've never known anyone who knew their death was imminent, and it pains me to see cancer strike another beloved member of the tech community, but I am fascinated by how Pieter is handling his situation. Delegating his tasks away, being frank about his condition and its progress, and now this protocol article. Even though his life is being cut way short, it almost seems as if he has extra time to get his ducks in a row and share wisdom. Many others die suddenly or after losing mental faculties and don't quite have the same opportunity.
• porjo 11y ago
  I've seen Pieter speak both in person and on video and it's hard not be impressed by his conviction and passion. Clearly a very clever guy with a lot of interesting ideas. Quite a polarizing character by all reports, but one that has made a significant contribution to the open source community nonetheless. Godspeed Pieter.
• jaseemabid 11y ago
  To anyone who does not know, Pieter Hintjens is the CEO of iMatix, where they build AMQP, ZMQ etc. Take care /u/PieterH. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_Hintjens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_Hintjens 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11520888 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11520888 3. https://twitter.com/hintjens https://twitter.com/hintjens
  • lucb1e 11y ago
    I was just learning about AMQP, and he mentioned driving to Eindhoven - I study there. This feels close... Thanks for mentioning this. (The article was by itself also interesting though.)
  • puranjay 11y ago
    I don't know about his work, but he is a terrific writer!
    • nickpsecurity 10y ago
      He's this guy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11558468 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11558468 Plenty links so you can all learn from and enjoy his work. :)
  • hanief 11y ago
    I build my app using AMQP as one of the building block. Thank you so much to Pieter for creating it. I hope the best for him.
• simsicon 11y ago
  Death is a horrible fact for a consciousness, however "being angry or sad at facts is a waste of time".
• goldenkey 11y ago
  It is not every day we see much written about death on upvote lists like Reddit or HN. So it means a ton to see the perspective of a smart hacker who is indeed met with the undeniable future of his own time. I'm only 26 and I have been thinking about life and death a lot lately. Not because I would commit suicide -- but rather because the very stupifying fact of "I'm alive!" evades most of media and content we consume. But it has huge implications for us in the very soon battle for understanding if turing-complete high-level-abstracting machines would experience "consciousness" like we do. In terms of medical care, rights, and other aspects for thinking entities. And Pieter, if you are reading this, I wish you well in whatever lies ahead for your mind, and for your actions which will surely echo through the sands of time for people. Because like you said, even if life is indeed finite -- that we take a sensible approach, our legacy should be able to give us comfort that our actions do get magnified by time -- so do what you love, and it will speak through future generations.
• libeclipse 11y ago
  Wow, that hit me harder than expected. It's rare to see someone talking so frankly about death, and even rarer for something like this to be on the front page. What a legend.
• marincounty 11y ago
  This is the most altruistic, caring piece of communicating I have ever read. I don't know this man, but I love him. I will remember this to my own demise. I will look for a political group that is for a humane way of dying, and ask what needs to be done. My father died in extreme pain. For three days he was in hell. His last words he spoke to me, "when will it end?". I didn't have an answer. My father's death kinda ruined my life. Even though we had our differences; every day since that day in January, 11 years ago, I think about how he suffered, and part of me died with him.
  • PieterH 11y ago
    It's easy to love a person who will never turn up on your doorstep with a dog and a bottle of whiskey and ask to sleep on your couch for a week. :) I think euthanasia rights are worth fighting for. People will argue that it's a "death panel". Show them my article.
  • deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
• netgusto 11y ago
  I wanted to express my compassion, then I figured out that's not what you need. But then, we never shared any good moments to speak about, right ? You're a stranger to me, and yet I can't help but feeling I know you better after reading your letter than many people I meet on a regular basis. And it feels warm inside. Thank you for taking the time to express this.
  • PieterH 11y ago
    Thanks for letting me know how it affects you. :)
• educar 11y ago
  This is easily one of the most courageous articles I have read. I can only hope to have the same courage when dying. Thanks for inspiring me, Pieter.
• weixiyen 11y ago
  The level of courage and calmness it takes to write something like so soon after the news he just got. Dude is top fucking percentage.
• bsandert 11y ago
  From personal experience, I can very much relate to and agree with this piece. My father went through a similar process: cancer (melanoma) – two years of treatment and coming to terms with the facts – euthanasia. As a family, we have been very matter-of-fact about it, which was definitely something he encouraged and participated in. We frequently talked about all aspects of his disease, the future, how it affected him and us. Sometimes one of us sighed that it would have been so much better if he would have suddenly died in his sleep but I always disagreed with that, it would just have come with a different set of emotions and grieving. I am actually very happy that we were able to share parts of this process with each other while he was still around. The weekend before his death, our house was filled with people who worked up the courage to come say goodbye, he sat among them in the living room and took a few minutes in person with everyone as much as his state allowed. I sat on his bed as he was treated with euthanasia, which was one of the most intense experiences of my life. I still miss the man every day, but because of the process we had together, I have nothing but fond memories of the times he was still there, including the very hard periods of time that come with a disease like this. This turned into a bit more text than I intended but my point is this: If you ever have a choice in the way you are to die, take heed of the points in this story. It may seem brutal at times to be as honest and open as you can about such an intimate process, but having gone through it once, I have absolutely no regrets. I wish Pieter and his loved ones all the best in the coming times.
  • jawilson2 11y ago
    Out of curiosity do you live in the US?
    • sp332 11y ago
      The twitter account in bsander's profile says Amsterdam.
      • deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
    • bsandert 11y ago
• sillysaurus3 11y ago
  I didn't know Pieter before today. He's one of the coolest people I've had the good fortune of coming across: > My first free software is from 1991. I realized the power of community gradually from 2005 when fighting software patents in Europe. I refined and tested the techniques in the ffii for projects like digistan. I saw the failure of money and power in amqp. In zeromq it took years to find the right patterns. I documented much in culture and empire. This earned my respect beyond words: > "There's this experimental cure people are talking about." This gets the ban hammer from me, and happily I only got a few of those. Even if there was a miracle cure, the cost and stress (to others) of seeking it is such a selfish and disproportionate act. With, as we know, lottery-style chances of success. We live, we die. And this is just awesome: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11521249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11521249 "I'm sorry to hear this, Pieter. I don't have a question, but would just like to wish you well" > Excellent question! (can you tell I'm bored in a hospital)? Well, it all started when I was about three, and I discovered ants. Fire ants, to be specific. Biting me all over cause I'd chosen to hide right on top of their nest. There's a lesson there. Thanks, Pieter. For everything! -- If you'd like to thank Pieter more directly, he's accepting Paypal donations at ph@imatix.com. > Well this is really kind. Yes, I'm pretty broke and have three young children who will be semi orphans. Cue violins. Happy to receive on PayPal at ph@imatix.com. I will give my family the keys to that so they can put it aside for ma wee bairns... Thanks for suggesting this.
  • musha68k 11y ago
    And do yourself a favour and buy his highly insightful and all-around great-to-read books: http://hintjens.com/books http://hintjens.com/books
    • restalis 11y ago
      He gives his books for free, so I can't imagine what buying would do for him (as I presume the paid sum is just the price asked by publishers for their service/channel). If you wish to support him you can do it more directly.
      • 11y ago
• melling 11y ago
  He seems to have accepted his fate but you still have to wonder if there isn't an immunotherapy treatment that would work for him. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/personalized-immunotherapy-treats-epithelial-cancer https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/persona... 91 year old former President Jimmy Carter had brain cancer and was recently treated with it and he was cured. https://www.mskcc.org/blog/understanding-jimmy-carter-s-surprise-turnaround-conversation-jedd-wolchok https://www.mskcc.org/blog/understanding-jimmy-carter-s-surp... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/04/19/breakthrough-cancer-therapy-shows-growing-promise/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/0... http://www.ucsd.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=25970 http://www.ucsd.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=25970
  • imminent 11y ago
    Have you read the article?
    • melling 11y ago
      Yes, twice. He said that chemo was the only thing he was trying. Does that mean we can't discuss immunotherapy here? Perhaps there are other people reading in a similar situation, or who will be in a few short years. Time and knowledge could make a difference.
  • function_seven 11y ago
    > but you still have to wonder if there isn't an immunotherapy treatment that would work for him. In the context of this article, no, I don't have to wonder. He expresses very well why he doesn't want to entertain such longshots.
    • virtualwhys 11y ago
      Anecdotal, but my cousin was stage 4 skin and throat cancer (2 separate origin cancers), tumor ridden, on the way out. His doctor somehow got him in on a clincial trial (immunotherapy) at the Dana Farber cancer institute in Boston, MA. That point-blank saved his life. The cancer was gone within 4 months; he's been cancer free for 5 years. His younger brother was not so lucky, lung cancer (heavy smoker), he didn't last long after diagnosis. Anyway, the OP isn't looking for miracles, he's preparing for his departure, in a beautiful and dignified manner -- totally respect the choice, but longshots are not the same odds they used to be wrt to cancer treatments, even stage 4.
• jimduk 11y ago
  Some Hintjens' quotes - i) "One tactic I used was to take the cult techniques and reverse them" ii) "We create culture by sharing" (extends to a successful project being a culture, a share-alike licence, and a name/domain which of course can be forked) There are many others - his writing introduced me to Conway's law (was b) - "A software system mimics the structure of the organization that produces it ") - I've only read part of his work, time well spent and good to discuss with programmers and non-programmers - he made me think
  • aleksi 11y ago
    b) That's Conway's law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law
    • jimduk 11y ago
      Thanks - updated
• blackflame7000 11y ago
  Wow. Powerful stuff... Really makes you consider your own mortality.
• paulsutter 11y ago
  Pieter came to work with us on a project in San Francisco and I'm so happy that I could find this post through hacker news so soon after he posted it. I don't know if he will get my email but I'm glad I had a chance to send it.
• jsharf 11y ago
  Pieter, after reading your article I feel connected to you, despite us never having met. Thank you for everything you've done as a blog writer and as a member of the open source community.
• isnullorempty 11y ago
  I didn't know Pieter but contributed to CZMQ which was a excellent example of how C can be well written. ZMQ was like having lego blocks for me had so much fun playing with it, he is a profound thinker.
• augustl 11y ago
  It would be interesting to see how many of us that has had conversations with Pieter Hintjens. I suspect a sizable chunk of the HN crowd has interacted with him. I've enjoyed his company on many conferences, and while he presents himself in a very direct manner, he is also friendly and enjoyable to talk with.
  • PieterH 11y ago
    Funny, that is how I feel about 95% of the thousands of programmers I've talked with over the last years. :)
    • augustl 11y ago
      I'm not sure why, but something makes you stand out. I love that you present without slides, for example, and I can't think of anyone else doing that.
  • rbanffy 11y ago
    I am a bit saddened I never had the chance. He seems like a great guy. Knowing how to die is as important as knowing how to live, perhaps more. As he leaves us, he is giving us all an important lesson.
• yoodenvranx 11y ago
  And this is exactly why euthanasia should be made legal everywhere. If I ever have to die of some horrible disease I want to go on my terms and do exactly like op.
• samio 11y ago
  Edit: the date has been fixed in the artice. Also: I'm sorry. So, what's up with the dates? First, the article date: > wrote on 22 Apr, 05:43 (4 hours ago) Then later in the text: > and on 25 April my oncologist confirmed it was cancer. Seems like someone is a secret time traveler...?
  • bsandert 11y ago
    Or he may have been diagnosed one or more years ago.
    • tomp 11y ago
      No. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11520979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11520979 > PieterH 3 days ago | parent | flag > Just found out today, after a week of tests and six weeks of feeling gradually worse. I'll try to answer your questions. I'm on my phone.
      • bsandert 11y ago
        I stand corrected.
  • tomp 11y ago
    Yeah, that was very weird. Edit: Ah, it must have been a typo, now it's fixed. > I was checked in and put on antibiotics, which fixed the pain, and on 18 April my oncologist confirmed it was cancer.
  • PieterH 11y ago
    Thanks for catching that. I was figuring the dates out on my calendar and slipped down a row. It was the 18th.
• nikolay 11y ago
  As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, euthanasia would not be an option to me, but I really hope I'd never have to think about it as a choice. I had an early stage melanoma in 2004 and I know I "beat it", but I also know it's all a matter of time and I made some important lifestyle changes and most importantly - switching to a ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting. (Well, also as an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I'm currently undergoing Great Lent, and I know for a fact that carbs are terrible in the long run.) It's so pathetic that we as a society waste so much time and energy on non-essential stuff instead of curing major killers. Yes, cancer is a hard one to beat (each cancer being different, too), but we've done even more complex things as humanity. I really don't think curing major diseases has ever been a top priority of our society! I hope one day soon people finally realize that diseases are not what other people get (the arrogance of the healthy), but what we all will eventually!
  • tomp 11y ago
    I'm really curious, what makes you choose and follow rules that other people set up (i.e. whatever part of being an Eastern Orthodox Christian forbids euthanasia), instead of making choices yourself, whatever you believe is the best for your life? Even if you agree with most of what your religion prescribes or suggests, couldn't you just pick and choose the parts that you like and that influence your life positively, and throw away the rest?
    • nemo1618 11y ago
      I'm hesitant to answer for nikolay, but my guess is that he has indeed made such choices -- one of them being to live according to the doctrines prescribed by his religion. Rigidly adhering to dogma is something that many people take pride in. When done consciously, it's not blind obedience; it's a sort of trust in the groundwork that has been laid by your ancestors. In other words, to simply "pick and choose" would denigrate the tradition that nikolay has decided to uphold. For some people, death is preferable to the dissolution of one's identity.
      • nikolay 11y ago
• tjholowaychuk 11y ago
  Wow this really hits home. I can only hope that when it's my time that I can go with such class and dignity. My only fear in dying is that I would regret having not lived more, spent more time on things that really matter, or being held back by myself. I couldn't agree more about euthanasia, I've always envisioned a Dia de los Muertos style party for when I go :). I would much rather go when people have a chance to see me happy and reminiscing like you mention. I would say thank you for your work, but I know there's much more to you than that!
• ak39 11y ago
  There are many days I too feel I'm ready to die. But then realize I'm not ready. Couldn't understand why. Reading what Pieter just wrote makes realize that I lack fortitude in one aspect: compassion. Pieter's words confirms to me that one needs to wield formidable muscles in the compassion department for one to be at peace and be ready to die. Great man, Pieter.
• ascotan 11y ago
  Another sad day for the software community. I'm a big fan of 0mq and the work that Pieter has done. As for the euthanasia, my wife's aunt died of cervical cancer and it was very rough, not only on her, but on her entire family. It's not an exaggeration to say that they likely all have PTSD from the experience. I'm not a proponent of euthanasia but I can see the appeal. It probably depends a lot on the individual situation.
  • duncan_bayne 11y ago
    Bear in mind, you don't have to be a proponent of something in order to support the right of people to choose it.
• dirktheman 11y ago
  I always like to think that we don't really die, we live on in the memories of our loved ones. Even if you don't leave a massive legacy behind like you. When I think back of the good moments with my grandparents I'm not sad, I'm happy I got the chance to have experienced them in the first place. Thank you Pieter, and godspeed on your big journey, whereever it will take you.
  • mehdix 11y ago
    Very true.
  • artur_roszczyk 11y ago
    This is one of the possible afterlives described in "Sum: Forty Tales from the Afterlives" of David Eagleman
• aliostad 11y ago
  For those who had the opportunity and pleasure of meeting you personally, the day the news broke out was a black day. You are a person who makes a deep impression, your thoughtfulness and very balanced view and how you articulate them. I now read your writings and find them even more compelling: sharp observation and bravery to spell the truth out. Death is coming to all of us. We all die. Death of some, however, will be a big loss. You, sir, are among them.
• fiatjaf 11y ago
  Someone has to take the Edgnenet project and move it forward!
  • azazqadir 11y ago
    What is that?
    • fiatjaf 11y ago
      Something that looks abandoned, but is the most interesting idea ever: - http://content.cultureandempire.com/appendix1.html http://content.cultureandempire.com/appendix1.html - https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/edgenet#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/edgenet#/
      • fiatjaf 11y ago
        In fact, the building blocks for the project are quite active: - https://github.com/edgenet/drops https://github.com/edgenet/drops - https://github.com/zeromq/zyre https://github.com/zeromq/zyre (with ports for many languages, such as Go: https://github.com/zeromq/gyre https://github.com/zeromq/gyre)
• arxii 11y ago
  i like to hope that i will never die because by the time i age humanity would have evolved to the point of curing all forms of cancer and extending life past 100 years of age.
  • paraschopra 11y ago
    This is an extremely odd thing to comment. You may be right, but your comment just feels inappropriate in the context of this thread.
    • anonymous777 11y ago
      IMO extremely wrong comments are the ones accepting the death and even celebrating how "strong" a person dying against his will is.
      • tptacek 11y ago
        As the parent of two teenagers and a former 15 year old myself, let me just acknowledge that it's tough being 15 years old, but it does get better, and one day you will stop writing things like this.
        • anonymous779 11y ago
          I'm quite older than that and I don't plan to stop neither now nor in the future. >it's tough being 15 years old Being 15 years old in the west is a fairy tale. Try being that in my country. Really, I don't see how anything I write is wrong. To me it looks like you westerners are wrong by declaring human life as a highest value, and then silently unanimously approving (by distributing your attention, capital and forming your attitude) of the status quo where every human has his/her life taken away by something he/she didn't choose.
  • anonymous777 11y ago
    Progress doesn't occur by itself. If we won't develop the necessary technology (or help, or incentivize development) it won't magically show up by the time it is needed for you or for me. For OP and many others it didn't.
• domrdy 11y ago
  Great article, thanks for sharing this. I have a question: how would you tell your so to "move on" after you are gone? Was this even brought up ? I'd imagine this to be a very difficult, yet necessary conversation to have.
  • PieterH 11y ago
    I'm... fortunate in that respect.
• flashman 11y ago
  > Imagine you have a box of Lego, and you build a house, and you keep it. And you keep making new houses, and never breaking the old ones. What happens? "The box gets empty, Daddy." Good, yes. And can you make new houses then? "No, not really." So we're like a Lego houses, and when we die our pieces get broken up and put back in the box. We die, and new babies can be born. It is the wheel of life. I am stealing this.
  • msamwald 11y ago
    It might be consoling to some, but it is hardly accurate.
    • asimuvPR 11y ago
      How would you accurately explain death to a toddler? It is a good analogy that takes the toddler's feelings into account. Daddy ran out of Legos but he loves you. Quite beautiful actually.
      • anexprogrammer 11y ago
        downvotes? I'm not sure how this rates those. Accuracy isn't really helpful to a five year old who doesn't yet have all the concepts needed. The tooth fairy isn't accurate either. Accuracy will get you an endless cycle of "but why dad?"
        • TeMPOraL 11y ago
          That's called being a responsible parent. It's either that, or your child's future partner will have to deal with them losing faith in their parents, after so many things they were told turned out to be bullshit said to shut them up.
          • emodendroket 11y ago
            If you'd resent your parents for explaining death to you when you were five by an analogy without technical accuracy you probably have other issues.
• anexprogrammer 11y ago
  Good journey sir. Thank you for this piece. I feel your model should become an international standard. I am saddened to see you are so young. > ... and enforce the barbaric torture of decay and failure. It's especially relevant for cancer, which is a primary cause of death I'm glad you find yourself somewhere enlightened. As someone who watched his father die of cancer over 2.5-3 years in the UK it almost robbed me of my father for a while. The last six months were brutal. He was either away with the fairies on Morphine, or in his increasingly rare lucid moments, pleading with NHS to reduce his dose. He chose pain and lucidity over a zombie state yet was often denied that choice as the system sought to reduce pain above all. He made it plain when he could, many times during the end months, that he didn't want to play this game any more. Post death, our memories were of the brutality, of the incoherent husk on drugs who had had enough long since, of the ever increasing dosages and tripping in the system's wish to reduce pain, of the morphine smell. Of being increasingly worn down by it. It was harder in those early weeks after death to remember the real man, so defined by his mind, intelligence, humour and practical jokes. I still miss my best friend. The UK is no nearer enlightenment on this topic today than 20 years ago when my father died. The views of those claiming a hotline to god, in our increasingly atheistic country, were exceptionally hard to hear, yet always sought in any media discussion of euthanasia. I am thankful your children and other family will have the blessing of kinder memories.
  • loopbit 11y ago
    At least the UK seems to be making moves toward a better system, Terry Pratchett had a bit to do with it. The rest of the european countries are blind to this issue. This is something that hits very close to home, as I'm in the same path as Pieter and your father and I see that path getting me to the same end. If that happens, I'd like to end on my terms, not as the husk that you describe and not after having my family go through all the pain that you describe.
    • anexprogrammer 11y ago
      We seem to be progressing at glacial pace. I hope we've got there if it comes to be a choice I have to consider. The Terry Pratchett documentary was challenging to watch, but very well made. At least it gave rise to a somewhat more rational discussion of the topic than they often are. It's sure to be out there on a torrent or YT for anyone who's not seen it.
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
• clydethefrog 11y ago
  A book about psychopaths from a software developer with no qualifications to speak with any authority on psychopathology whatsoever - that doesn't sound highly insightful.
  • fit2rule 11y ago
    Haha! You sound like a psychopath. Got any good code?
  • djaychela 11y ago
    Jon Ronson's book was highly enlightening.
  • PieterH 11y ago
    Good thing you read the book and came back with a solid criticism instead of launching a superficial attack on my lack of credentials. Nice work.
  • dang 11y ago
    We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11548216 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11548216 and marked it off-topic.
• Angostura 11y ago
  Well, that's embarrassing - I just started weeping in the office. Probably because my own father has been diagnosed with cancer (in his 90s though, ripe old age) and we are both pretty much following the communication guidelines set out in the article. Thanks for posting and thanks to Pieter for writing.
  • azazqadir 11y ago
    This article was really an eye opener for me, especially what not to say to a dying person. We should be careful about that thing.
• anonymous777 11y ago
  This whole thread reeks of death acceptance culture. HN readers show off how cool they are for accepting death instead of discussing how we as a tech community could help cure these diseases or at least give more people an option of being cryopreserved. The really unpleasant truth is that if we as a society began doing serious focused R&D on these life-threatening diseases earlier, the OP and many others wouldn't have to die. But we didn't. Enjoy marketing your mobile apps until cancer suddenly makes you rot away.
  • adaml_623 11y ago
    Well I'm sure you'll be down-voted but in case you come back to check the replies I'll just say I'm sorry that you can't accept the world at the moment. Unless the singularity happens really soon and someone bootstraps a benign godlike AI to take us under it's wing I think we're stuck with a very high (five 9s ?) probability of dying. It's fine to rail against it but sometimes you have to accept that you were born in the dark ages and life is short.
    • TeMPOraL 11y ago
      It's not either/or. We could accept that and fight it, so that our children, or our children's children won't have to die anymore.
      • anonymous778 11y ago
        I agree, the question is not "Should we work on it or death is OK?" but "What are we doing to solve this problem?". For example there are people doing amateurish experiments on rodents, other people tinkering with ML and so on. Of course I "accept" death as a fact of life that happens to almost everyone by default. But note that saying that death is a fact of life is a bit wrong because there is a handful of exceptions, 100s of rich people that opted for cryopreservation. They have a small chance of coming back later in some form. Most people in the world don't (because 80k$ is a too big sum for them).
    • anonymous777 11y ago
• danburgo 11y ago
  These words hit close to home. My dad just passed away from cancer/diabetes in Florida and had to endure the "barbaric torture of decay and failure". Basically 4 months suffering in bed until he eventually denied eating anything and his liver failed. I asked the nurses repeatedly if there was anything to help him go or pass and there was nothing. Something's got to change in the US, we treat animals better than humans at the end of life Thank you for your words
  • jnardiello 11y ago
    Same situation in Italy. Unfortunately. Anyone wanting a be euthanised has to travel Switzerland, which is not always feasible at end-of-life (also considering that the whole procedure costs ~20k$). I spent my civil service as an EMT and only once I saw a doctor giving the daughter of a terminally ill woman a piece of advice I will never forget (this woman was in such bad conditions, she simply wasn't there anymore and spent 100% of her time with morphin-induced allucinations): after giving her the morphin prescription he told her that "nobody is going to go behind you if you give her an overdose" - implying that she could end her suffering but she had to be the one killing her. It was by far one of the hardest moment of my life, and I was just a passive witness. It was just brutal.
    • CaptSpify 11y ago
      One thing I've heard of is people "leaving the bottle open" next to the bed. That way the ill person can "accidentally" decide for themselves.
      • rukuu001 11y ago
        I've heard similar. Also with family members being taught how to use the morphine IV dripper, and what a fatal dose looks like. The alternative is for patients to refuse food and water until they die. I'd been thinking about this a lot because my father was diagnosed with a terminal illness 3+ years ago. We'd discussed euthanasia, and he definitely didn't want to spend his final 6-12 months suffering. Because he didn't die, the docs took another look and realised he'd been misdiagnosed (and yes, we got 2nd & 3rd opinions after the initial diagnosis).
• jsingleton 11y ago
  I can highly recommend "Culture & Empire - Digital Revolution", a very interesting read. I think this is a great request: "Find a moment in your own jurisdiction, if it bans euthanasia, to lobby for the right to die in dignity."
• drivebyops 11y ago
  Thought this was something for killing processes judging by the title and it being hacker news
• _pmf_ 11y ago
  Maybe his publishers could increase revenue percentages for him from his books sales; I did not even know he was an author, otherwise I would have bought one or two of his books earlier.
• srameshc 11y ago
  Been a fan of Pieter Hintjens since 2010 when I found ZeroMQ and read that ZMQ guide which was the most easy to read and fun technical guide that I read ever. I tweeted and he replied back, and I was startstruck by a tech superstar. He was always fun to follow and I remember one of his tweets where he says we don't even need fruit sugar, though I never followed that advice :) As graceful as ever. Godspeed Pieter.
• bcg1 11y ago
  The first time I came across Pieter was when he was interviewed about ZeroMQ on FLOSS weekly. I've come to find his writing to be engaging and informative, and thank him for that. His series of articles on psychopaths and the havoc they wreak is well worth reading, even if it takes a while to take it all in. My best lesson I learned on programming from Pieter was to use code generators effectively. The advantages cannot be overstated. Thank you Pieter, you will be missed.
  • eric_bullington 11y ago
    > My best lesson I learned on programming from Pieter was to use code generators effectively. Likely among other places, Pieter discusses code generators here: http://download.imatix.com/mop/introduction.html http://download.imatix.com/mop/introduction.html > Thank you Pieter, you will be missed. Agreed. I posted my thoughts on his blog, although the hundreds of comments on this page will also stand as a testament to Pieter's work and the lives that he touched.
• restalis 11y ago
  It's strange to see such a protocol, that it was necessary in the first place. I guess people just assumed the wrong things even with their emotional compass as their guide. Thank you Pieter, you're truly a giver till the last drop, and a model to follow!
  • PieterH 11y ago
    Honestly, I didn't write the protocol for my friends and family, who almost all know exactly how to behave. A few percent, maybe, have no clue. But then people reflect Bob's style and I'm a pretty chill guy. I just thought it would be nice to capture the experience for others, for future reference.
• scandox 11y ago
  Code Connected got me interested in programming again. http://hintjens.com/blog:30 http://hintjens.com/blog:30
• amelius 11y ago
  The best protocol is to just ignore it. Animals do it, so why shouldn't we? This approach is also fully compatible with the idea that life itself is a "terminal disease".
  • minipci1321 11y ago
    From my observations, when put in situations similar to human's, animals don't "ignore" it in the same way as when left to themselves out there in the nature. (Admittedly, my sample size is very small.) We shouldn't ignore it just because of that -- we have relations, something wild animals not always have. This time of life is the last opportunity to tell other people that matter in your life -- and hear from them! -- all those things you always wanted to tell, but couldn't, for lots of stupid reasons. This will urge you independently of how you think about life, terminal disease or greatest gift (something in your message makes me think you are rather young). I think Peter's protocol is exactly how this needs to be handled.
• exit 11y ago
  when you bring life into this world you condemn it to suffering this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism
  • ksenzee 11y ago
    Is suffering all you see in Pieter's post?
• throwaway324324 11y ago
  It seems against protocol to argue with a dying man, but refraining also seems disrespectful to Pieter. I always open the comment section hoping that someone will disagree with the article in a thoughtful way; perhaps it's my turn, since I disagree so intensely. Presumably others would like to at least hear the counterpoints. Euthanasia is bad from a practical standpoint, and an evil, because: 1. Objectively speaking, euthanasia is suicide, and the killing of an innocent person. If Schwartz killing himself (out of despair for his future, fear of suffering in prison, or otherwise) was a tragedy, why is Pieter's upcoming suicide not a tragedy? Is it because his certain death is closer? (This view promotes the idea that a "disabled" life, where one is "unhappy", or must be cared for at great expense, or is suffering, or (extrapolating) is cryogenically frozen, is not valuable in and of itself; but it is.) 2. Suicide increases the risk that friends and family will commit suicide. A search will yield numerous studies: "2.1-fold increased risk of committing suicide"[1], etc. If you kill yourself, you are indirectly killing the people closest to you. 3. If you are against the death penalty because we might execute an innocent person, you should be against Euthanasia because we might kill a non-consenting person. This is already the case: > "these laws and safeguards are regularly ignored and transgressed in all the jurisdictions ... about 900 people annually are administered lethal substances without having given explicit consent, and in one jurisdiction, almost 50% of cases of euthanasia are not reported ... some jurisdictions now extend the practice to newborns, children, and people with dementia. A terminal illness is no longer a prerequisite." [2] Please, when you hear someone speak in flowery language about the dignity of choosing death, take a moment to evaluate what they are actually suggesting, and to research why people are opposed. Many seem to think that the only people against euthanasia are the religious whose reasoning is roughly "well, my religion randomly chose to mark this as evil, therefore it is", which is just not the case. [1] http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/relationship-suicide-risk-family-history-suicide-and-psychiatric-disorders http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/relationship-suicid... [2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3070710/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3070710/ (...finally, this is likely a very poor protocol for dealing with death - people deal in different ways, and not all people will look back fondly on having to smile all the time, or on expressing "false" hope and being told that, actually, objectively speaking, they should not have hope. Also, a totally minor point, but we are not like Lego houses - we do not need to be utterly destroyed for others to live.)
• fiatjaf 11y ago
  I must say that the cable joke https://twitter.com/hintjens/status/722315427200765952 https://twitter.com/hintjens/status/722315427200765952 was great.
• code4life 11y ago
  Another perspective, adopted by millions is simpler, and more joyful to explain. This life is temporary, but a life with Christ in heaven is eternal. Our christian funerals are often celebrations about a journey on earth well fought.
  • minionslave 11y ago
    It sounds beautiful. I guess part of us wants to continue to exist, even after our death. I must point out, as much as I agree with the sentiment, many people give up a happy life on earth (forbidden food, no premarital sex, tithes etc..) for the sake of religion.
    • cpburns2009 11y ago
      A happy life and religion are not mutually exclusive. Oh the horror of controlling your impulses and donating a little bit of money.
      • code4life 11y ago
        Many people throughout history realize that a happy life only comes from knowing God, who is the source of joy. For instance, consider the famous mathematician and physicist, Leonhard Euler, who wrote in "A Defense of the Revelation Against the Objections of Freethinkers", XVII. Proportional to the measure of knowledge that a reasoning creature can acquire, he cannot be happier than when he guides his will in a manner that conforms perfectly to the duties known to him and when he tames the affectations that could oppose them with so much success that there are none left that do not conform to these duties. Any man who has reached this state enjoys true tranquility of soul, and there is no longer anything capable of altering his tranquility. Nor can anything increase it, since it is only when understanding reaches the most perfect knowledge that the will also improves because of this knowledge and submits itself more and more to the will of God.
        • cname 11y ago
          I'm not sure this the best opportunity to proselytize. Also, anecdotes about famous people don't really mean much.
• BasDirks 11y ago
  I have wanted to read up on ZeroMQ. This time I will. It is meaningless in the face of his situation, but I feel like this is how I, as a programmer, can "talk" to him, honor him. I'm not trying to be sentimental but it feels right.
  • robotresearcher 11y ago
    And here's my small tribute: ZeroMQ is good. It's well designed and has unusually good documentation. You'll enjoy reading up on it. It has a quality feel.
• gerbilly 11y ago
  It's wonderful to see someone approaching death with such a calm and balanced state of mind. May your wisdom and compassion live on in your children and in all the other people you have influenced.
• deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
• gm3dmo 11y ago
  Pieter, you made the world a better place. Thanks.
• jwildeboer 11y ago
  Best thing I ever created with Pieter was stallmanism.com a few years ago. And the beers we drank over the years discussing a wide range of topics while typically being surrounded by people that started to shake heads after a few minutes of listening in. Moments that will survive everything. Thank you, Pieter. Love you.
  • PieterH 11y ago
    Love you too, Jan.
• doug1001 11y ago
  thank you for sharing this; thank you for your extraordinary contribution to the open source community; thank you for writing so candidly and so eloquently about the process of building software; and thank you for making we want to be a better developer.
• lemonade 11y ago
  Hi Pieter, I'm not sure how long you'll keep on reading stuff, but rest assured me and many others will cherish the very fond memories of collaborating with you - you've always had a sharp wit and a practical sort of unconventionalism that gets things done. We have much to thank you for. We worked together on Digistan and the "The Hague Declaration", which I helped host in The Hague - and I think it still is a strong statement that is worth repeating. People can sign that declaration: http://www.digistan.org http://www.digistan.org I'm very much saddened to hear about your disease - and deep respect for the way you handle this unannounced change of plan. I hope your remaining time will be spent with those you love looking back on a rich life where you've left the world better than it is - and got the max out of it. I'll send you an email, so that when your kids are older and want to know about the things you've done they can contact me. Take care, my friend.
  • mordocai 11y ago
    Don't forget to comment on the article as well like he requests at the end.
  • PieterH 11y ago
    :-) Thanks.
• simplemath 11y ago
  I hope to muster the level of clarity and pragmatism you show here if I have time to reflect upon it when my number is called. Inspiring.
• davesque 11y ago
  Pretty sobering stuff. I watched my mother die of cancer about a year ago. Sitting next to her, as she moved back and forth in bed, incoherent, was....well...pretty surreal. Honestly, I don't get this world we live in. We pop in from nowhere and then live in fear of popping out in an untimely way. I kinda get where this man is coming from. A lot of cancer therapy just seems like such a long-shot. And it's your life on the line (including your sanity). Bouncing around from doctor to doctor, treatment to treatment is enough to break people. I mean totally break people. Financially and spiritually. It didn't break my Mom. She always had hope actually and never wanted to die. But I think it would break me.
• bikamonki 11y ago
  A terrible earthquake hit my country last saturday, killing hundreds in seconds. Before, I would have said: at least their death was quick. But now I think like Pieter: the best way to die is when you have enough time to say goodbye, even if that means painful cancer. Goodbye Pieter, go happy knowing that you've put in your kids much more than DNA, they're set for an awesome journey!
• okreallywtf 11y ago
  One thing that I observed the year I lost two great uncles (one from one side of the family and six months later one from the other) to cancer was how easy it is for the closest family to get very tied up in the logistics and medical side that people weren't really taking as much time to really talk to them. Granted they weren't considered terminal until close to the end. As the younger nephew, I didn't feel as much responsibility to be involved with the logistics (it felt more awkward to me but I think it was comforting to the children, spouses etc). So instead of joining in on the doctor/prognosis conversations and later the funeral arrangement/what to do with the house stuff, I just sat and talked to my uncles instead. I had known both of them my entire life but I realized I knew almost nothing about them. All our interactions were just uncle to nephew, family occasions kind of stuff, but by this time I was an adult (just barely), and all the sudden we were just two people talking and I learned more about them in a 20 minute session than the prior 20+ years. Some other family who were on the periphery of the conversation confided later that they regretted not having those moments while they had the chance. I didn't even talk that much, just enough to make it a two way conversation, but I found my uncles both were very at peace but wanted to reminisce and tell stories they probably hadn't told anyone in decades. One uncle told me about joining the military during Korea and having gone through all the training and finally being sent all the way there to have the war end practically the day he got there and he ended up being sent right back and what a strange conflicted experience it was for him. I've started visiting with my other elderly family a lot more since then and have had some similar conversations that didn't require anyone being terminally ill, but somehow that seems to make those conversations a little easier. I can definitely agree with the piece, especially about what to say and what not to. I'm not expert by any means, I just did the only thing that felt natural whatsoever: just talk to them like a person and let what happens happen. Granted I had the benefit of the fact that they were well taken care of by their children and others, otherwise it would have been much more difficult.
• bastijn 11y ago
  I actually wanted to attend that keynote and now you popup over here. Thought it would be a nice day, some friends / colleagues presenting anyway. Somehow my brain wandered off reading this article thinking what would have happened if you could have presented this blog post as a keynote. How would the audience react, would it differ from this where people have more time to digest it? Definitely some awkward social event afterwards I'd bet. Only thing I missed in your post is a snappy remark to alternative medicine (not expiremental, mind you); would have made it perfect. That stuff usually conflicts with the actual treatment and even if it doesn't and people survive they say it is because of the alternative junk instead of the actual treatment they conveniently forget to mention they took as well. You know, these sites that claim it's true and proven linking to multiple studies showing it...performed by themselves and published on their own website only. I wish you the most with the time you have left but have no doubt you will make it count. Well, one thing left. This is Bob. Bob is dying. Bob doesn't whine or bitch about life being unfair. Bob is one tough motherf*er. Be like Bob. .O -|- ./\ P.s. If you think the stick figure sucks you should see my real drawings.
  • lbebber 11y ago
    Hey - it's very respectable to go out with such dignity, but please don't call feeling bad and complaining about it "bitching" or "whining". The experience varies from person to person and it can be utterly terrifying to some. (Unless this is a reference I'm not getting or something, then nevermind)
    • bastijn 11y ago
      I completely agree. Didn't think to much about it, indeed an Internet meme. Seems I can't edit my original comment anymore but know that I definitely do not consider people taking another route whiners or bitchers. There is no Wrong way to do it.
• shanacarp 11y ago
  Are you getting fully sequenced before you die, so if there are discoveries later, your kids will have a database of you to compare against? Apparently the cost finally dropped below $1kUSD this year
  • PieterH 11y ago
    Hahaha... oh wait, you're serious? I think, and hope my kids will slowly forget about me except as deep and positive experiences, and it would be narcissistic in the extreme to ask them to carry my DNA around like ashes, just in case. None of us are that special, me certainly not. Life is for the living, not the dead.
    • shanacarp 10y ago
      I 100% am. I hope you don't mind this sir, but I am going to email you why, since I don't want a long explanation of my medical data on hn alongside feelings about my family. I still think it is something you should hear before you pass
      • PieterH 10y ago
        Thank you for your email, and I realize what you meant now. Sequencing my DNA to protect my children from the risk that my cancer has a genetic basis... very thoughtful. Yes, I'd do this if I could find a researcher willing to help, and if I thought my disease had a genetic basis. As it is, I've put it down to "dumb bad luck" and there's no sequencing that. I'll explain: my family has no history of cancer. We tend to die from natural causes, not too late, not too early. I'm unusual. The cancer originally in my bile duct is also extremely rare in Europe and America. Yet it turns out to be a main (if not the main) cause of death among 50+ males in certain east Asian countries. So it's (almost certainly) a liver fluke carried in raw farmed fish, which is slipping into the global trade as "sea fish" and being used in cheap sushi restaurants. The fluke attaches to the bile duct and produces carcinogens because it likes feeding off the tumors. The bad news is there are going to be a lot of western men in their 50s who get dramatically bad news out of nowhere, as this parasite must now be lodged in tends of thousands of us. Good news is this killer will finally benefit from some real attention, to the benefit of all. Interestingly, women are almost entirely unaffected. So while sequencing my DNA wouldn't help much in my case, there is one message I'd like to send to the world: "Stop eating fish. Fish is shit." One should not be eating wild proteins anyhow. It's unethical IMO.
• skylan_q 11y ago
  Some other reading on the topic for those who are interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_moriendi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_moriendi "The Art of Dying"
• chaostheory 11y ago
  The rules may be different for children: http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/24/tech/gaming-gadgets/cancer-video-game/ http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/24/tech/gaming-gadgets/cancer-vid... http://www.hopelab.org/portfolio/re-mission-2/ http://www.hopelab.org/portfolio/re-mission-2/
• tie_ 11y ago
  Thank you, Pieter, for your sane approach. The comments here demonstrate aptly the power of your words over the HN community. I lost a father and an in-law to cancer, and your post simply nails the target for me. I wish I'd read this back then. Then again, as you demonstrate, we need not focus on the things we cannot change. Spending time with regrets is time wasted. Thank you!
• arnold_palmur 11y ago
  I lost my dad to cholangiocarcinoma when I was only 7 - rest easy knowing you had a positive impact on the world Pieter.
• angersock 11y ago
  Pieter, I hope that when the time comes I have the poise and grace to deal with things to as high a standard as you have here. Thank you.
• danso 11y ago
  This is his last blog post, but according to Github, he's still actively contributing code and comments as of 7 hours ago: https://github.com/hintjens?tab=activity https://github.com/hintjens?tab=activity
• wsfull 11y ago
  I became an admirer of this man's software aesthetic when I first discovered and compiled libero. In my opinion, this is a great loss to the world of programming.
• known 11y ago
  You can write an exclusive book and pass it on to your children
• nickpsecurity 10y ago
  Tribute to Hintjens' great work and ideas. Man is like the Bernstein of enterprise software with great balance of unconventional design, correctness, performance, and innovation. Here's a list of some of his work for those interested: A great write-up on his theory of model-driven development and the tech that underpinned most of iMatix: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c.. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c.... Their website is a slide-show demonstrating their amazing work: http://www.imatix.com/ http://www.imatix.com/ Generating servers from state machines and such: http://hintjens.com/blog:75 http://hintjens.com/blog:75 SMT kernel for portable, multi-threaded, fast code: http://legacy.imatix.com/html/smt/ http://legacy.imatix.com/html/smt/ Web server (old and new) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xitami https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xitami http://xitami.wikidot.com/main:start http://xitami.wikidot.com/main:start One of best middleware ever http://zeromq.org/ http://zeromq.org/
  • nickpsecurity 10y ago
    No idea how the first link turned into Google nonsense. Here's the MOP link: http://download.imatix.com/mop/introduction.html http://download.imatix.com/mop/introduction.html
• arkangel_72 10y ago
  I can barely understand his condition.. but its good that he has euthanasia as an option. In my country india Article 21 of our constitution says right to life does not include right to die.. although recently passive euthanasia is allowed i think
• rabeeshkumar 10y ago
  The truth, is modern medicine treating about cancer (chemotherapy, immunotherapy, ..) is putting a bandage on a real underneath problem. It will comes again, may be take some years. One of good actor from my place is passed away with cancer few weeks before https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jishnu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jishnu. He also did chemotherapy few years before. We should care about these deadly diseases, or DNA mutation, what causing it. Any bug happens, we can resolve it, but losing a person we can't recover. I am the one of person who also suffering from autoimmune disease. Sorry for my English.