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Pypy3 is a separate project. From previous comments by the PyPy team, their customers are almost all targeting Python 2, hence Python 3 doesn’t get nearly as mu

by wbond 11y ago

Pypy3 is a separate project. From previous comments by the PyPy team, their customers are almost all targeting Python 2, hence Python 3 doesn’t get nearly as much attention. Pypy3’s last release was 2.4.0 in 2014. It targets Python 3.2, which is relatively unsupported compared to Python 3.3. Here is a recent comment by a core member of the team on future Pypy3 work: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11262150 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11262150.

skolos 11y ago
> their customers are almost all targeting Python 2 Odd statement. How can they have any customers who target Python 3 if they don't support it?
- pritambaral 11y ago
  Could be they never received as many (or many) potential customers. There have been a few services/apps I was looking to use but had to turn down after talking to them because they didn't support Linux (Xamarin, Codename One, etc.) They all said they didn't receive as many requests for Linux as they did for Mac or Windows. I guess this would be similar.
  - fijal 11y ago
    I think you're confusing cause and effect. In open source world, you can't charge for something that exists. It needs to be a need to do so. In order to push PyPy into putting significant effort from a core team - we would need exactly that. A big chunk of money dedicated to just that. We've spent all the money we got and we did get something out of it. But it needs to be more seriously supported in order to kickstart that. Obviously people are free on whatever they want in their free time, but unless there is enough to push the PyPy3 support to a significant postion, it's unlikely to move at a higher pace.
- Nkdo 11y ago
  The vast majority of python codebases are still in python 2, even though many of the popular framework have been ported to 3, and there's no reason for most of them to bother with the amount of work it can be to port to py3 when they're happy with py2. Whether it be devs like Dropbox or open source software like NVDA, they will stay in the world of python 2 for the years to come. The amount of customers they could get by supporting python 3 is definitely not worth the effort unless they get paid explicitly for it. In terms of libraries, python 3 is "mostly" ready (though there are still issues with highly popular ones like wxwidgets. Or amazing tools like Pyjamas, which replicated GWT with Python instead of Java. Or Google AppEngine, which still shows no sign of moving to 3.) but large codebases outside of highly worked on web frameworks haven't moved on and there's not enough gain to justify the effort it takes to port them. The Python 3 debacle caused a lot of devs to also look at other languages for new projects. Old python 2 codebases will stay python 2, but new projects might not necessarily be python at all. The anger with Python 3 is real. See also: https://caremad.io/2015/04/a-year-of-pypi-downloads/ https://caremad.io/2015/04/a-year-of-pypi-downloads/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/45sm94/what_are_the_most_recent_python_3_vs_python_2/czzy5wa https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/45sm94/what_are_the... "Looking at these graphs, we can see that in the past year Python 3.x has grown from roughly 2% of the total downloads from PyPI to roughly 5-6%" I expect things like AppEngine to deprecate Python rather than port to 3, when/if python 2 reaches EOL and not enough people gather to maintain or even evolve that old branch. Python 3 users are a vocal bunch, but the war they're fighting is a lost one.
  - andrepd 11y ago
    >The anger with Python 3 is real. But why?
    - daveguy 11y ago
      Because here is a quick list of just over 100 things that have to be considered to port and maintain compatibility between the two: http://python-future.org/compatible_idioms.html http://python-future.org/compatible_idioms.html Python3 is a different language than Python 2.7 and there is no compelling reason to move from 2.7 to 3. Most of what would have been compelling reasons are being handled in PyPy. PyPy is the present and future of Python and that future is 2.7.

by wbond 11y ago

skolos 11y ago

> their customers are almost all targeting Python 2 Odd statement. How can they have any customers who target Python 3 if they don't support it?

pritambaral 11y ago
Could be they never received as many (or many) potential customers. There have been a few services/apps I was looking to use but had to turn down after talking to them because they didn't support Linux (Xamarin, Codename One, etc.) They all said they didn't receive as many requests for Linux as they did for Mac or Windows. I guess this would be similar.
- fijal 11y ago
  I think you're confusing cause and effect. In open source world, you can't charge for something that exists. It needs to be a need to do so. In order to push PyPy into putting significant effort from a core team - we would need exactly that. A big chunk of money dedicated to just that. We've spent all the money we got and we did get something out of it. But it needs to be more seriously supported in order to kickstart that. Obviously people are free on whatever they want in their free time, but unless there is enough to push the PyPy3 support to a significant postion, it's unlikely to move at a higher pace.
Nkdo 11y ago
The vast majority of python codebases are still in python 2, even though many of the popular framework have been ported to 3, and there's no reason for most of them to bother with the amount of work it can be to port to py3 when they're happy with py2. Whether it be devs like Dropbox or open source software like NVDA, they will stay in the world of python 2 for the years to come. The amount of customers they could get by supporting python 3 is definitely not worth the effort unless they get paid explicitly for it. In terms of libraries, python 3 is "mostly" ready (though there are still issues with highly popular ones like wxwidgets. Or amazing tools like Pyjamas, which replicated GWT with Python instead of Java. Or Google AppEngine, which still shows no sign of moving to 3.) but large codebases outside of highly worked on web frameworks haven't moved on and there's not enough gain to justify the effort it takes to port them. The Python 3 debacle caused a lot of devs to also look at other languages for new projects. Old python 2 codebases will stay python 2, but new projects might not necessarily be python at all. The anger with Python 3 is real. See also: https://caremad.io/2015/04/a-year-of-pypi-downloads/ https://caremad.io/2015/04/a-year-of-pypi-downloads/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/45sm94/what_are_the_most_recent_python_3_vs_python_2/czzy5wa https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/45sm94/what_are_the... "Looking at these graphs, we can see that in the past year Python 3.x has grown from roughly 2% of the total downloads from PyPI to roughly 5-6%" I expect things like AppEngine to deprecate Python rather than port to 3, when/if python 2 reaches EOL and not enough people gather to maintain or even evolve that old branch. Python 3 users are a vocal bunch, but the war they're fighting is a lost one.
- andrepd 11y ago
  >The anger with Python 3 is real. But why?
  - daveguy 11y ago
    Because here is a quick list of just over 100 things that have to be considered to port and maintain compatibility between the two: http://python-future.org/compatible_idioms.html http://python-future.org/compatible_idioms.html Python3 is a different language than Python 2.7 and there is no compelling reason to move from 2.7 to 3. Most of what would have been compelling reasons are being handled in PyPy. PyPy is the present and future of Python and that future is 2.7.