4 ms·

Resistance to ID is just an americanism. There are no practical negative consecuences and a lot of good ones. Identity is a right that government must warrant,

Resistance to ID is just an americanism. There are no practical negative consecuences and a lot of good ones. Identity is a right that government must warrant, not something dirty that should be buried.

creshal 10y ago
> Resistance to ID is just an americanism. I literally just explained how it's not. > There are no practical negative consecuences Assuming an ideal, benevolent government. (Presumably residing on an infinite frictionless plane, feasting on spherical cows.)
- jarman 10y ago
  Government will identify citizens anyway. It's not choice between ID and no ID, but between simple ID and ad-hoc scheme (Name/Surname/Birthdate/Residence composite, or issuing separate id for each institution). While IDs do have negative consequences, I see zero downside in replacing VATIN, passport number (linked list of "previous document" in worst case, down to birth certificate), army id number, employment record book number and "$surname $name $patronymic, born $birth_date at $birth_place, registered $registration_place" official title with single citizen ID.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    Centralization and slack are inversely proportional. If everybody is reliably and unambiguously identified from birth by a single government-issued and -maintained key, and that government turns against its citizens (or is overthrown, compromised, et cetera), you're basically hosed.
    - jarman 10y ago
      That data is already centralized and interlinked. There is no 'slack' (ambiguity and leeway) as far as government is concerned. I am not arguing for using government-issued IDs for non-government services (as in original post), and consider enforcement of such use a direct attack on citizen freedom, but only for having single ID for use in state-person relations.
      - creshal 10y ago
        > That data is already centralized and interlinked. Not in all countries. Germany used to have explicit laws against combining state and federal record bases, they were only recently eroded to "fight terrorism".
- blah5432 10y ago
  You need to assume nothing. Your government is spying on everybody without an ID. Your explanation just doesn't qualify, sorry.
jjgreen 10y ago
So why you create temporary accounts to comment?
- blah5432 10y ago
  Because this lovely customer I'm working in MITMs the HTTPS. You know, it's so cool to read gmail on the phone. BTW, shame on Chrome for allowing it without a warning :-/ Firefox totally refused to connect.

creshal 10y ago

> Resistance to ID is just an americanism. I literally just explained how it's not. > There are no practical negative consecuences Assuming an ideal, benevolent government. (Presumably residing on an infinite frictionless plane, feasting on spherical cows.)

jarman 10y ago
Government will identify citizens anyway. It's not choice between ID and no ID, but between simple ID and ad-hoc scheme (Name/Surname/Birthdate/Residence composite, or issuing separate id for each institution). While IDs do have negative consequences, I see zero downside in replacing VATIN, passport number (linked list of "previous document" in worst case, down to birth certificate), army id number, employment record book number and "$surname $name $patronymic, born $birth_date at $birth_place, registered $registration_place" official title with single citizen ID.
- throwanem 10y ago
  Centralization and slack are inversely proportional. If everybody is reliably and unambiguously identified from birth by a single government-issued and -maintained key, and that government turns against its citizens (or is overthrown, compromised, et cetera), you're basically hosed.
  - jarman 10y ago
    That data is already centralized and interlinked. There is no 'slack' (ambiguity and leeway) as far as government is concerned. I am not arguing for using government-issued IDs for non-government services (as in original post), and consider enforcement of such use a direct attack on citizen freedom, but only for having single ID for use in state-person relations.
    - creshal 10y ago
      > That data is already centralized and interlinked. Not in all countries. Germany used to have explicit laws against combining state and federal record bases, they were only recently eroded to "fight terrorism".
blah5432 10y ago
You need to assume nothing. Your government is spying on everybody without an ID. Your explanation just doesn't qualify, sorry.

jjgreen 10y ago

So why you create temporary accounts to comment?

blah5432 10y ago
Because this lovely customer I'm working in MITMs the HTTPS. You know, it's so cool to read gmail on the phone. BTW, shame on Chrome for allowing it without a warning :-/ Firefox totally refused to connect.