16 ms·
Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis
- schwap 10y agoOther news sources[1] are reporting it as "legalize", not decriminalize. [1]http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/20/canada-marijuana-legaliza_n_9738222.html?ncid=tweetlnkcahpmg00000002 http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/04/20/canada-marijuana-leg...
- notatoad 10y agoLegalization rather than decriminalization was certainly the campaign promise
- schwap 10y agoYes but decriminalization could have been an easier first step. So I think it's interesting they went directly to legalization.
- MAGZine 10y agoIt's not without rationale: 'Prime Minister Justin Trudeau fired back saying “decriminalization actually gives a legal stream of income to criminal organizations.”'[0] [0] http://globalnews.ca/news/2650706/canada-to-introduce-pot-legalization-legislation-in-2017/ http://globalnews.ca/news/2650706/canada-to-introduce-pot-le...
- ufmace 10y agoInteresting, the linked article called it decriminalize, but the text sounded more like full legalization to me. If you have the political support to fully legalize, why take half measures?
- schwap 10y agoFrom what I understand, legalization is a lot more complicated in relation to international drug treaties that Canada is a part of.
- ufmace 10y agoCould be. I wonder if they would be the first to fully legalize on a national level? I can't think of any other country that has.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- kristofferR 10y agoUruguay
- moonfern 10y agoThat law passed in 2013 and they're still implementing the large scale sales part of the deal. Which in this case means that pharmacies will distributed the drug to "registered" customers. That will start in the second part of the year. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/24/uruguay-legal-marijuana-next-phase-regulation http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/24/uruguay-legal-m...
- biot 10y agoPortugal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal Since July 2001, all drugs are legal subject to personal consumption limits.
- romek 10y agoFrom the same article: "In Portugal, recreational use of cannabis is forbidden by law; also the medicinal use is not yet officially recognized"
- adiabatty 10y agoWhat's the difference between the two?
- a-priori 10y ago"Legalize" means it's fully legal to produce, distribute and buy. It may be regulated, so you may need a license and follow certain rules, but other than that it's like any other product on the market. "Decriminalize" means it's still illegal to produce, distribute or buy, but it's not a criminal offence. So you may be fined, etc., but you can't be arrested or go to jail for it.
- mtgx 10y agoIt should be legalized, but with one condition: any and all advertising should be banned. In fact, it should apply to all drugs (as it is in other countries).
- ArtDev 10y agoThat is fine, but beer and liquor need to be included as well. Just because alcohol prohibition ended first, doesn't mean it deserves special treatment (I live in a state where cannabis is legal).
- nucleardog 10y agoLegalized = "you are not prohibited from doing this" Decriminalized = "you're not allowed to do this, but we won't treat you like a criminal if you do" Rather than years in jail and a criminal record, the punishment would be more akin to a speeding ticket - pay a fine, go on your way.
- mgbmtl 10y agoThey're also discussing how to commercialize it (and tax it), which is an important aspect of legalization. It's likely that many provinces will choose to control sales through state-controlled companies.
- dumbguy 10y agoIt will be legalize, not decriminalize. The party has majority, they could have passed a decrim on day one. They have no intent of decriminalizing.
- tsieling 10y agoNo, they could not pass it on day one. Getting legislation together like this takes support building in other areas of government, and getting it right so it isn't toppled because of flawed wording takes crafting. They need to bring people on board and do it well or it falls apart. It takes time.
- dumbguy 10y agoYou're confusing the two. Decriminalization needs nothing more than to be removed from the controlled substances list, and being removed from the criminal code. It's easy peasy, and could be done easily within a week. You don't need anything because it's no longer criminal, you just stop prosecuting them. Quick announcement to the feeds on the streets, and you're running. Legalization on the other hand, which is what the current gov is going for, is legalization. And that requires all those special departments, policies, procedures, laws, etc...
- joe_the_user 10y agoEdit: I thought you were the one with your definitions reversed but it seem news organizations and stories actually seem to also use contradictory definition. See for example: http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/06/economist-explains-10 http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/06/ec... versus http://globalnews.ca/news/2650706/canada-to-introduce-pot-legalization-legislation-in-2017/ http://globalnews.ca/news/2650706/canada-to-introduce-pot-le...
- dumbguy 10y agoNo, those are the same in both articles. Mulcair's views, are largely irrelevant now.
- dang 10y agoOk, we put "legalize" in the title above.
- OSButler 10y agoI'm curious if all those decriminalizations and legalizations in various states & countries are having an impact on Netherlands' tourism.
- eva1984 10y agoExcellent point...
- foldor 10y agoI wouldn't be surprised if it had close to zero impact. As much as people like to talk about Amsterdam's legal marijuana laws, I'm skeptical many people visited that country only because of that. Marijuana isn't exactly hard to get and smoke in private in the places these laws are being enacted in.
- TillE 10y ago"Marijuana" isn't one thing. Dutch coffeeshops are fairly unique in their offering a tasting menu of dozens of varieties of marijuana. But yes, the actual number of cannabis connoisseur tourists is tiny.
- cr1895 10y ago>"Marijuana" isn't one thing. Dutch coffeeshops are fairly unique in their offering a tasting menu of dozens of varieties of marijuana. Hardly unique and recently greatly outshone by the offerings in states in the US where it's legal.
- roel_v 10y agoMany Dutch cities take active measures against drug tourists. They are not a profitable or desirable crowd. Besides, most drug tourism is and always has been from countries where drugs laws are still (relatively) strict.
- bosse 10y agoAh yes, the wietpas, a mandatory coffee shop membership card only available for residents and with a hard limit of 2000 members. When this government sanctioned system was put into play, the streets of Maastricht suddenly had plenty of aggressive pushers overnight, with no "brand" quality, health information or age checks, and plenty of nuisance in the streets. It was so bad that the mayor of Amsterdam noped out of introducing it, together with most mayors in towns that doesn't kiss a border. I believe most, if not all coffee shops in the Randstad area (Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam, Utrecht) are still welcoming any adults into their coffee shops.
- brebla 10y agoHow does this effect the supply chain? Let me re-phrase that, are we still criminalizing the supply side? If so, we're just exporting our violence south of the USA border.
- schwap 10y agoBased on the following quote: > “We will introduce legislation in spring 2017 that ensures we keep marijuana out of the hands of children and profits out of the hands of criminals,” It sounds like they plan on legitimizing the whole thing.
- martythemaniak 10y agoNo, they have promised legalization. However there's virtually no chance of this being a free-for-all. What I expect the main features to be: - Certified and regulated producers, though not numerically limited - heavily-taxed. - no problems growing your own. - retail distribution depends on province. More liberal in BC, government-run in Ontario. - separate certifications for places "serving" (ie, pot cafes). Can't take it home with you.
- allisthemoist 10y agoIn other words, regulated in a way that is very close to how alcohol is currently sold in Ontario.
- dmix 10y agoThe key difference is that quality marijuana can be grown indoors for personal consumption, whereas it's very difficult to make a quality whiskey or beer by comparison. So I'm curious what effect this will have on prices. Because if pricing is anything like alcohol in Ontario then there will still be a lively black market and, if legalized, a personal-growing boom. In Ontario alcohol can only be bought at two government run retail stores called LCBO and "The Beer Store" at much higher prices than the US and even Montreal. Unlike in some other provinces you can't walk into a grocery or corner store, you have to go to the predefined locations of the alcohol stores, which typically close at 9pm, making it harder to get alcohol. Especially if you don't drive. I hope they don't make the same mistake with weed, because the market dynamics are different.
- the_duck 10y agoA well-timed announcement for April 20th. ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_(cannabis_culture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_(cannabis_culture)
- r00fus 10y agoYes, absolutely brilliant.
- rconti 10y agoThe Waldos interview (Lagunitas, 2014). There are lots of purported origins of 4:20 (usually about as well-explained as "oh, I heard that some people in some place..." or "I heard there was a police code.." Not that I've put much research into it, but this seems like the most believable I've seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hIC7F-qe9Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hIC7F-qe9Q
- adnam 10y agowhat about Canada's responsibilities under certain international treaties to prohibit the production and supply of drugs?
- llamataboot 10y agoehhh, most of the UN wants to really talk about a different approach than prohibition, historically it's been Russia, China, a few smaller countries and the US that has taken a hardline on it. Now the US is starting to back away. Will be interesting to see if anything new comes out of hte next UN drugs summit.
- mfoy_ 10y agoScrew the treaties.
- ImTalking 10y agoWho cares about treaties which the US bullied everyone to sign.
- nickysielicki 10y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Convention_on_Narcotic_Drugs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Convention_on_Narcotic_... How do they get out of this? I've read that this is a big holdup in US federal drug law reform.
- llamataboot 10y agohttps://www.civilized.life/despite-treaties-justin-trudeau-could-go-ahead-with-legalization-1543162197.html https://www.civilized.life/despite-treaties-justin-trudeau-c...
- MichaelGG 10y agoSo basically a country can pull out of a bad treaty and all they're going to get is some strongly worded letters? Hopefully once Canada and others defy these terrible agreements, poorer countries will realise they have a lot to gain by ignoring them, too.
- chris_wot 10y agoThese things are never so simple. If a country pulls this sort of thing too often, then negotiations with other nations (especially the one whose treaty you pulled out of) will necessarily be much less willing to negotiate new treaties with them. Treaties are more than just trade, they also signify a strong relationship between nations because the nations who negotiate treaties are signalling that they are willing to cooperate in a constructive fashion with that other nation, and that they want to maintain a peaceful relationship with the other nation. It is far, far better never to sign up to a treaty that is "bad" (normally a power imbalance) than it is to sign up to one, and then pull out of it.
- MichaelGG 10y agoWell hopefully people notice that the narcotics treaties really just damage poorer countries and don't end up "fighting drugs" anyways. It's sad to see these made up "crimes" of drug selling and money "laundering", as they do suck up budgets, efforts, and lives in third world countries. One might be cubical enough to think e.g. the US loves this as a way to keep, say, Central America, under control.
- auntienomen 10y agoGlad to see this is full legalization being proposed. Decriminalization is of little use to the chronically uncool.
- dmix 10y ago> the chronically uncool. Such as politicians? Or basically most people living in Ottawa?
- auntienomen 10y agoSure. I suspect there's a lot of people in Ottawa who'd enjoy the occasional joint, but don't know where to get it. As for politicians... well, my impression is that they prefer crack.
- cpncrunch 10y agoDoes smoking pot make you cool?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- auntienomen 10y agoNo, the contrapositive. Being cool helps you access the trust networks through which illegal supply flows.
- cpncrunch 10y agoNot in my experience...it's just a matter of knowing where to look. Not that I'm really interested in smoking pot any more. It's a bit too uncool and boring.
- auntienomen 10y agoBully for you. Not all of us are down to hang out with old hippies, just to purchase some weed. I'd rather have Amazon ship it.
- gerry_shaw 10y agoCanadian News Source http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/philpott-un-marijuana-legislation-legalize-1.3544554 http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/philpott-un-marijuana-legisl... I love that they picked this day to make an announcement.
- NovaS1X 10y agoIt can't be a coincidence. I hope they pass the bill next year on this day. I'll be booking work off and heading to the Art Gallery for that one.
- huhtenberg 10y ago> the Art Gallery For those who don't get the reference - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNX2X9nXyIo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNX2X9nXyIo
- corin_ 10y agoThey didn't pick the day because of 4/20 they picked it because of the UN General Assembly Special Session on Drugs, where multiple countries raised complaints about the current state of prohibition and Canada went one step further by announcing this to the other nations.
- asd 10y agoPerhaps it's now time to look at investing in some of the existing Canadian medicinal cannabis producers. Like cannabis or not, it's here to stay and becoming more legitimized with each passing day. The question is, who's going to supply it? It's going to be regulated and knowing Canada, it will be regulated thoroughly.
- andrewstuart 10y agoIn Australia "the Victorian government, is introducing laws in December to allow families access to medicinal cannabis in exceptional circumstances. " You have to be genuinely, deeply sick in Australia to be allowed to puff a joint. It's like living in the 1950's. So strange that Australia follows the world so quickly towards becoming more conservative and is so incredibly slow to become less conservative, even when our cultural leader, the U.S.A. is headed that way. http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victorian-children-with-epilepsy-to-take-part-in-medical-marijuana-trial-20160202-gmkate.html http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victorian-children-with-ep...
- JamilD 10y agoCalifornia started off that way, and now you can get your marijuana rec online. Medical marijuana is always the first step to more widespread acceptance.
- striking 10y agoWould you say it's a... gateway drug? Badum-tish.
- pm 10y agoIt's decriminalised in SA, but they always change the bloody number of plants that are considered a commercial quantity. I don't think anyone gives a shit anyway, everyone here in Adelaide is puffing away anyway.
- NeutronBoy 10y agoAlthough it's not legal in Vic, unless you're caught with a substantial amount or dealing then it's not really an issue for casual smokers. Enforcement is generally pretty lax.
- mbrameld 10y agoRight, unless you happen to be a casual smoker who has the wrong color skin, or hurts a police officer's feelings, or criticizes a government official, etc.
- agumonkey 10y agoIs there any study on the reduction of young consumers (rebel/taboo incentives) and reclaimed resources for police forces (less time dealing with petty to medium weed issues) ?
- baudehlo 10y agoI haven't seen any yet, but Colorado is being studied very closely.
- kobayashi 10y agoVery big hiccup that this policy might possibly run up against: the American border. Given the 280,326,500,000 USD in exports that Canada sends to the US [0], even a minor disruption at the border could wreak devastation on Canada's economy. If an American administration even hinted at an increase in border wait times due to newly enhanced searches as a result of legalization, any Canadian federal government would have to think very hard about the pros vs the cons of legalizing pot. [0] http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html#2015 http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html#2015
- grecy 10y agoWhat you say is true, though it would be a sad day when the future of what Canadians want Canada to be is limited by the financial pressure of another country. Of course, to prevent this problem, Canada could just hint at slowing down or limiting the 12410000000 barrels of oil it exports to the USA [1] (see, two can play that game, and nobody wins) [1] http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/canadian-oil-exports-to-u-s-reaches-highest-level-ever-as-shale-production-falls http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/canadian-oil-e...
- kobayashi 10y agoAgreed that nobody wins in a trade war, though, the threat of limiting the oil flowing south isn't very credible. Canada is already hemorrhaging money due to the downturn in oil pricing and the subsequent devaluing of the Loonie. Also, Canada doesn't really have any other options of where to send the oil, as thanks to a variety of political actors, Canada hasn't been able to build a pipeline to the west coast to move the oil overseas to places like China. Lastly, I don't even think that the Canadian federal government could reduce the flow of oil, as the sector is in private hands. I suppose something might be able to be done with cross-border rail movement, but I'm not sure. Regardless, it would be cutting the nose to spite the face, so the point is pretty well moot. As for the ability of Canadians to create their own policies of self-government solely on internal politics without regard for geopolitical implications, I'm not going to pout over it. Geopolitics and international relations effect the internal politics of every country, and American concerns are not without merit. If a Democrat wins the WH, I'd be surprised if that threat were levied, as it would anger much of the Democratic base. However, who knows what the future will hold. Law enforcement agencies certainly hold a great deal of policy sway in the US (as in most countries), and my take is that they're more anti-legalization than the average American voter and politician.
- lee 10y agoOne thing that I am disappointed in is that I wish the Liberal government first decriminalized marijuana. For one thing, decriminalization is easy to do. Simply revoke the current criminal laws. The bill would be passed quite quickly. Which would then buy time to figure out a bill for legalization. Why is this important? Despite popular belief, simple possession laws ARE upheld in Canada, but the people charged are disproportionately minorities and poor/homeless people. IIRC, there were 40 000+ criminal charges for simple possession last year in Canada. That means thousands of citizens who are now burdened with a criminal record, making job searches difficult and border crossings into the US. So while laws for legalizing pot are getting figured out in Parliament, more people keep getting locked up for simple possession.
- kobayashi 10y agoYah, but if you decriminalize possession it's a boon for the (still) illegal dealers and distributors. Is there any credible data to discredit my take on this?
- indlebe 10y agoDo you think decriminalizing for possessing a small amount in the interim would still fuel crime?
- kobayashi 10y agoWell, 10 grams isn't that small (though certainly not large), and retails for about 100 CAD. So, if people become more likely to smoke up once it's decriminalized, then it would seem to me that it would provide a windfall for the sellers, distributors, and producers. I have no hard evidence to support this belief - it's just a supposition that seems to me to be reasonable and logical.
- a3n 10y agoIf we have to keep putting civilians in jail so that criminals don't benefit for a brief time, I think that thought should be rethunk.
- tn13 10y agoThere is nothing great about smoking weed but something seriously bad about jailing people for smoking, possessing or growing. That is the reason why I support marijuana legalization but I dont think Canada wants to decriminalize Marijuana.
- johnpowell 10y agoIt has been legal in Oregon since last summer. Walking the streets of downtown Portland you wouldn't know the law changed. Really, there is absolutely zero difference that I can see.
- hasenj 10y agoI'm a little bit worried about this, actually. I've been to Vancouver and it wasn't a very pretty sight. The amount of homelessness and crime is 10 times more what I've seen anywhere else in North America. There's an entire section (several blocks) in the Downtown area that's full of homeless people and the streets smell like urine. Shops even in areas far away from downtown put posters on their windows saying they don't hold cash overnight. i.e. please thieves don't break in at night because you will not find any cash. At the same time, Marijuana seemed like it was very easy to obtain, and for free too! There plenty of shops that give it away for free "for medical purposes". Some of them even advertise that they have a doctor who will prescribe it for you in case you don't already have a prescription! I know correlation is not necessarily causation but easy access to Marijuana was the only significant difference between Vancouver and all the other cities I've visited in North America.
- xyzzy123 10y agoI've also noticed that Vancouver is full of Canadians, unlike similar cities in North America. [edit: sorry, this was a dumb comment, I misread North America as "USA"]
- hkmurakami 10y agofwiw GP is from Toronto.
- xyzzy123 10y agoOK, perhaps that was a little too sarcastic; but the post still smacks of hand-wringing to me. We have inequality, availability of social support, property prices, local culture and climate as possible factors just to start, and post fingers availability of marijuana?
- hasenj 10y agoToronto has a "marijuana community" so to speak. But it's not so easy to obtain. Not free everywhere in your face.
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- bayesian_horse 10y agoProbably now Trump wants to build a wall at the border to Canada too.
- kungfooman 10y agoWhen do the European faggot politicans wake up to allow cannabis? Already thinking about migrating to the US.
- dang 10y agoWe've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines. If you don't want it to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll only post civil, substantive comments in the future.