4 ms·

Apple is not licencing iOS to OEMs. They are also very far away from a monopoly.

AnthonyMouse 10y ago
> Apple is not licencing iOS to OEMs. In other words they're also tying iOS to their hardware and vice versa. This is supposed to make it less of an antitrust issue? > They are also very far away from a monopoly. They sure look like a monopoly to an iOS app developer or iOS app customer who wants app store competition to drive down app store margins.
- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  And Tesla has a monopoly on making Teslas. Your definition of "monopoly" is inaccurate. Android is 85% of the smartphone market. iOS is 13% of the smartphone market. Android is a monopoly, iOS is not.
  - msabalau 10y ago
    If the objection is the alleged difficulty in installing competing app stores, why isn't the relevant market the market for apps, rather than the market for phones?
  - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
    So then AT&T wasn't a monopoly in 1979 because they had only a small percentage of the telecommunications market, is that what you're saying? If you don't want to buy your telephone handset from AT&T then you had lots of choices -- just move into the service area of British Telecom or the Deutsche Bundespost or dozens of others.
- millstone 10y ago
  Antitrust law is concerned with unlawful contracts, collusion, and cartels. It's meant to ensure that businesses compete by acting independently. Apple is acting independently. They've built differentiating features (like custom software) which you can only get by buying Apple's products. Apple hopes that customers will use their products because they're better than the competition. That is exactly what antitrust law is meant to encourage. Google is not acting independently. They've built differentiating features, but licensed them under terms that prevent competition. Google hopes that customers will use their products because OEMs are contractually forbidden from selling competing products. That is what antitrust law is designed to prevent.
  - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
    > Antitrust law is concerned with unlawful contracts, collusion, and cartels. It's meant to ensure that businesses compete by acting independently. Then how do I have a stack of history books that say the government broke up the 20th century AT&T monopoly under the antitrust laws? And Standard Oil and U.S. Steel before that? You seem to be implying that if Google did exactly what they're doing now except that they made their own hardware and refused to license Android to third parties then there would be less of an antitrust problem, even though then there would unambiguously be less competition than there is now.
    - ralfd 10y ago
      How would there be less competition in that scenario? If Android would be restricted to Google Hardware the market would look way more diverse with Samsung/HTC rocking their own solutions and Nokia/Windows still having market share. The same if Android licensers were more free to provide their own solutions (see what Amazon did with the Fire brand) instead of forced to bundle Googles services on every device.

> Apple is not licencing iOS to OEMs. In other words they're also tying iOS to their hardware and vice versa. This is supposed to make it less of an antitrust issue? > They are also very far away from a monopoly. They sure look like a monopoly to an iOS app developer or iOS app customer who wants app store competition to drive down app store margins.

ocdtrekkie 10y ago
And Tesla has a monopoly on making Teslas. Your definition of "monopoly" is inaccurate. Android is 85% of the smartphone market. iOS is 13% of the smartphone market. Android is a monopoly, iOS is not.
- msabalau 10y ago
  If the objection is the alleged difficulty in installing competing app stores, why isn't the relevant market the market for apps, rather than the market for phones?
- AnthonyMouse 10y ago
  So then AT&T wasn't a monopoly in 1979 because they had only a small percentage of the telecommunications market, is that what you're saying? If you don't want to buy your telephone handset from AT&T then you had lots of choices -- just move into the service area of British Telecom or the Deutsche Bundespost or dozens of others.
millstone 10y ago
Antitrust law is concerned with unlawful contracts, collusion, and cartels. It's meant to ensure that businesses compete by acting independently. Apple is acting independently. They've built differentiating features (like custom software) which you can only get by buying Apple's products. Apple hopes that customers will use their products because they're better than the competition. That is exactly what antitrust law is meant to encourage. Google is not acting independently. They've built differentiating features, but licensed them under terms that prevent competition. Google hopes that customers will use their products because OEMs are contractually forbidden from selling competing products. That is what antitrust law is designed to prevent.
- AnthonyMouse 10y ago
  > Antitrust law is concerned with unlawful contracts, collusion, and cartels. It's meant to ensure that businesses compete by acting independently. Then how do I have a stack of history books that say the government broke up the 20th century AT&T monopoly under the antitrust laws? And Standard Oil and U.S. Steel before that? You seem to be implying that if Google did exactly what they're doing now except that they made their own hardware and refused to license Android to third parties then there would be less of an antitrust problem, even though then there would unambiguously be less competition than there is now.
  - ralfd 10y ago
    How would there be less competition in that scenario? If Android would be restricted to Google Hardware the market would look way more diverse with Samsung/HTC rocking their own solutions and Nokia/Windows still having market share. The same if Android licensers were more free to provide their own solutions (see what Amazon did with the Fire brand) instead of forced to bundle Googles services on every device.