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Microsoft is ending Xbox 360 production more than 10 years after its debut
- sremani 11y agoI am not a hardware guy, but honestly, they should mini-fy XB360 and make it appleTV competitor but with a huge game library.
- dsp1234 11y agobut with a huge game library They have actually backported quite a few games[0] to run on the Xbox One (where you can use the original disk, or now even buy them as digital downloads). So my guess is that they are likely to push for more Xbox One sales (where buyers have the convenience of playing either era of game) rather than try to create a mini-device that would only be able to play older games and not newer ones. [0] - http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one/backward-compatibility/available-games http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one/backward-compatibility/av...
- sjs382 11y agoBut that misses the parent's point. At $300, the Xbox One isn't an AppleTV competitor.
- untog 11y agoSure, but it would eat a non-zero amount of Xbox One sales. Presumably that's why Microsoft isn't about to do it.
- undersuit 11y agoWouldn't that have been a concern these last two and a half years anyways?
- dsp1234 11y agoThat's certainly what I was getting at. An AppleTV doesn't take away from sales of any other Apple product (that I know of). Whereas this theoretical product might take away from Xbox one sales (which they target as a TV + multimedia + gaming system).
- throwanem 11y agoThat's not a backport, that's just a port. Backporting would be converting XBox One games to run on the 360.
- valarauca1 11y agoI am a hardware guy. Cooling would be a small issue (but additional die shrinks may make it possible) There were 3 generations on Xenon which powered Xbox360 (90nm (2005), 65nm (2007), 48nm (2010+))[1]. Modern processes are 28, 16/14 (10nm is Intel only really and Xenons were fabbed GlobalFoundry) [1]. The 2005 vs 2010 models reduced power consumption reduced power consumption from 177watts, to 88watts (under intensive gameplay) [2]. So realistically there are 2(ish) nodes available 28nm and 14/16nm [3]. Which could likely (best case scenario) halve power down to 50-40watts. Apple TV by comparison uses 1.8watts [4]. Passive cooling is possible, but the case foot print would be larger. I'm not a thermodynamics guy. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_(processor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_(processor) [2] http://www.anandtech.com/show/3774/welcome-to-valhalla-inside-the-new-250gb-xbox-360-slim/3 http://www.anandtech.com/show/3774/welcome-to-valhalla-insid... [3] 14nm/16nm are 28nm but a different gate style. Features are still 28nm. Also I'm assuming GlobalFoundry is calling their 45nm node 48nm because they called their 14nm node 16nm. [4] http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1332241339 http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id...
- WoodenChair 11y agoThose are stats for the Apple TV third generation. The fourth generation is significantly different and uses more power but it's hard for me to find an exact official number from Apple. I don't think it's much more though.
- jsheard 11y agoAccording to iFixit the 4th gens PSU is rated at 12V@0.917A, so it maxes out at 11 watts. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4th+Generation+Teardown/49046 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4th+Generation+Tear...
- meepmorp 11y agoI got curious and found this: https://www.apple.com/vn/environment/pdf/products/appletv/AppleTV_PER_oct2015pdf.pdf https://www.apple.com/vn/environment/pdf/products/appletv/Ap... Looks like about 0.2-0.3 watts in standby, a bit under 2.5 for content streaming. The power supply is spec'd at 11 watts.
- andersen1488 11y agoThat's basically the Nvidia Shield
- JohnTHaller 11y agoIf it wasn't going to eat into Xbox One sales, I'm sure Microsoft would consider it. The Xbox 360 makes a far better media center than the Xbox One does. The apps on the 360 crash less then on the One and dealing with crashed apps on the 360 is much more reliable. For example, when your YouTube app crashes/hangs on the Xbox One, returning to the menu does nothing as the app pauses/runs in the background. You can hit the menu button (akin to a right-click) on the YouTube icon and select Quit. If you run YouTube again, it'll still be running and crashed. The trick is to menu button and quit YouTube and then run a couple other video apps (usually Netflix and Hulu do the trick). This is usually enough to fully offload the YouTube process and allow it to run again. This is how Microsoft's flagship entertainment console works. In 2016. Seriously. Everytime our cat sitter watches our place, I have the Xbox 360 hooked up for her to watch videos on. It's easier to use and more reliable.
- daveidol 11y agoIf you quit the app with the menu button then it is quit completely. Essentially, the "home" functionality works just like on iOS or Android. You're right that it is not always intuitive in situations when an app is hanging/frozen, but I'm not sure why you have to open other apps to get it to quit - I've never had that problem. Disclosure: I used to work on the Xbox Live team at MSFT but no longer do.
- JohnTHaller 11y agoThat may be what's supposed to happen and what does in testing, but that's not real world behavior. I had the YouTube app crash on my Xbox One just yesterday. I hit menu and selected quit. Waited a few seconds. Hit menu again and quit wasn't an available option which should mean that it's done being force quit. Started YouTube again and it will still hung playing audio with a frozen picture. Sometimes I'll start it again and it'll just show the YouTube logo for a few seconds then return to home. It'll often do this a few times in a row. I have maybe 6 people in my neighborhood with Xbox Ones that all experience the same issues.
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- kalleboo 11y agoSony tried to do something similar with the PlayStation TV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_TV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_TV
- abhi3 11y agoSummary: Xbox 360 production will be discontinued but existing stock is still available for sale in stores. Microsoft has no plans to discontinue support for it. Xbox One (now the only remaining gaming console from Microsoft) now has Xbox 360 backward compatibility, and that likely means Microsoft will maintain support for that console and the bulk of its services through the life of the Xbox One at the least. That pretty much sums up it, if you'd like such summaries for all articles before you read them check out: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11535695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11535695
- robbiemitchell 11y agoSurprised they continued manufacturing them this long. Why wait until three years after releasing the Xbox One?
- fsloth 11y agoI presume the fact that Xbox one got only recently the capability to play old 360 games might have something to do with it. But which one is the cause and which one the effect?
- wmf 11y agoConsole generations overlap; when a new console is released the older one is reduced in price and becomes the low-end value console.
- cc438 11y agoJust to add to those two other points, the 360 was Microsoft's leading platform for developing countries and countries with heavy import restrictions. For example, Brazil's incredibly protective trade policies requires electronics to be made locally if they are to be sold at an affordable price point. The 360 only went on sale there in 2011 when MS opened up a local manufacturing facility and it was the last refuge of the PS2 which only went on sale when local production began in 2009. The Brazilian market isn't large enough for MS to justify duplicate tooling and other custom production equipment needed to produce a local version of the Xbox One. However, the decline in demand for the 360 would have led to excess production capacity, allowing MS to set up a local plant with the excess equipment from underulitized original production lines. Also, the 360-specific tooling and production equipment has long since been paid off which greatly reduces the cost per unit. The 360 provides MS with a budget offering capable of accessing developing markets which can't support the $300 pricepoint of a current gen console.
- buckbova 11y agoPS2 went on for 13 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2 > Sony finally announced that the PlayStation 2 had been discontinued after 13 years of production – one of the longest runs for a video game console.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y agoNintendo's Family Computer (aka the Nintendo Entertainment System in the rest of the world) was released in 1983 and only discontinued in Japan in 2003. Even after that they still repaired consoles until 2007.
- barbs 11y agoSega's 8-bit Master System console is still being sold in Brazil. http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/brazil-is-a-video-game-alternate-universe-where-sega-beat-nintendo http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/brazil-is-a-video-game-...
- sogen 11y agoah the PS2, what a sturdy built console, a department store nearby kept selling those for years (like pancakes)
- CodeCube 11y agoIt's been a heck of a run! Thanks, Xbox 360 :)
- vblord 11y agoGood job on the awesome product! insert hand clapping smiley face here
- Grazester 11y agoWhich iteration? My roommate went through two of them due to the red ring of death.
- justinlardinois 11y agoThe S and E models don't have that problem. I've heard some of the later chipsets for the original model also fixed the problem. From what I've heard, the 360 was original designed with an environmentally-friendly (read: not lead) solder that had never really been used in a major product. The original design already had heat problems and the solder turned out to be easily melted.
- vblord 11y agoI must have had S or E... because I never had that problem. My kids and I still play it to this day.
- justinlardinois 11y agoThe original model is the one with the memory card slots on the front (and the only one that comes in white). The S came out in ~2010 has an angled, thinner-in-the-middle design, and the E (came out when the Xbox One was announced) looks like a smaller Xbox One with rounded corners. The problems I mentioned weren't universal, but they were about as close to it as you could be. Maybe you had an S or an original model that was later in its production. The 360 has a one year general warranty, but the red ring problems were so widespread that Microsoft added a three year warranty for red rings specifically.
- kabdib 11y agoSome laptops had similar issues (e.g., a Lenovo, whose support issues caused me to rage-quit Lenovo products forever).
- ikeboy 11y agoOriginal: http://news.xbox.com/2016/04/20/xbox-360-celebrating-10-years/ http://news.xbox.com/2016/04/20/xbox-360-celebrating-10-year...
- untog 11y agoI bought an Xbox 360 about six months ago to serve as a Windows Media Center extender - while I was at it I picked up GTA5, too. It's still a very respectable machine, given that it cost me less than $100.
- littleweep 11y agoDid you buy this new?
- ethbro 11y agoThis is why the XBOX 360 has had fairly long legs. It's no longer "just a game console" and is really in the first generation of converged, internet-updatable consoles. And in that generation? Even if your console doesn't run the latest games, there's still substantial value delivered for a lot of people through Netflix, social features, casual games, etc. And MS can continue backporting their UI updates.
- PTRFRLL 11y ago> Gamers will also be able to continue to buy over 4,000 Xbox 360 games or Xbox 360 accessories at retail and through our Xbox 360 store online, while supplies last. Guess I need to stock up on 360 controllers
- asimuvPR 11y agoIMO, the amazing thing about the 360 was how they were able to successfully continue selling it in spite of having the ring of death issues[0]. I know people who would go and buy a new machine when theirs died without thinking about it twice. One even gave me their 360 when the ONE came out. Microsoft sure knows how to build brand loyalty. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems
- FussyZeus 11y agoSpeaking as a 360 owner, I think it had more to do with a really good selection of launch exclusive titles that kept people coming back. The original gen 1's were not of great quality at all, even beyond the RROD issues the console felt cheap and poorly made, the power supplies were insanely large and generated a ton of heat, etc. Microsoft sold the 360 with good exclusives, which is what Sony then did with the PS4 while Microsoft bumbled around trying to be the center of your living room, like Sony did in turn with the PS3 (and why it had similar issues the One now has). To be fair: The Elites that came about later on were a MASSIVE improvement. The originals were the low bidder manufacturer and it showed, and I think M$ learned from that. Despite it's software issues (which I've gone to at length in other threads) the One does feel like solid hardware and good build quality.
- asimuvPR 11y agoI never really understood Microsoft wanting to be the center of the living room. Its just a weird concept to me.
- WorldMaker 11y agoThe living room is typically the biggest screen in people's homes, the screen they spend the most time with, and the screen they are the "fondest" for as it is the home for much of their entertainment. Why wouldn't Microsoft want to be at the center of that? Microsoft wants to "own" all of your screens, by being the friendly operating system and development tool provider for them, so of course the battle of the living room is huge for them.
- Keyframe 11y ago84 million worldwide run is respectable! Is there any breakdown per region? I'm somehow under impression that Xbox360 was, primarily, US hit.
- webkike 11y agoI purchased a 360 a few days ago so that I could play Street Fighter 3: Third Strike with my friends from back home. It's a fine console, but I was worried about the prospects of Microsoft shutting down Xbox Live at some point.
- kbenson 11y ago> It's a fine console, but I was worried about the prospects of Microsoft shutting down Xbox Live at some point. Well, as long as they still need to run Xbox Live for the Xbox One, it's probably in their interest to provide the (relatively) small amount of work to keep it functioning with the Xbox 360. Plus, they charge for the service, so as long as Live makes them money (it does![1]), they are likely to keep it going. 1: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-10-22-xbox-live-revenues-up-as-microsofts-overall-revenues-fall http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-10-22-xbox-live-r...
- cwyers 11y agoEspecially since they're offering the ability to run Xbox 360 games on Xbox One, including support for Live. I can't imagine it's any more work at all to keep Xbox Live running for actual Xbox 360s if they need to keep it running for 360 games running in emulators.
- ChristianGeek 11y agoAs long as the income is greater than the expenses for MS, they'll keep it running.
- webkike 11y agoI purchased a 360 a few days ago so that I could play Street Fighter 3: Third Strike with my friends from back home. It's a fine console, but I was worried about the prospects of Microsoft shutting down Xbox Live at some point.
- vancatrabbit 11y agoAnd to some it's still more than is needed in an actual games console. Still many titles to enjoy as an infrequent older gamer.
- waspleg 11y agoI never owned an xbox, but for games that require a controller and suck with a mouse and keyboard, the 360 controller is the best one I've used.
- WorldMaker 11y agoThe Xbox One controller is a decent incremental upgrade on the 360 controller when you get a chance or find a cheap one in a store. The port on the back of every Xbox One controller is bog standard USB micro port (just like mobile phones, PS3/4 controllers, so many other things) and you can just USB plug it into your PC with no adapter needed.
- tomyws 11y agoI'm suprised the topic of emulation hasn't been raised yet! The Xbox 360 emulator project Xenia[0] has made great progress on perserving a generation of games[1]. [0]https://github.com/benvanik/xenia https://github.com/benvanik/xenia [1]http://xenia.jp/compatibility/ http://xenia.jp/compatibility/
- aqzman 11y agoI've been following the progress of that project over the past few months, and it's amazing to see what they've achieved in such a short time-span, given the difficulty of the task. Personally the emulator is of no use to me, but like you said, it's all about the preservation of the generation of games. In 50 years will it even be possible to find a working Xbox 360? Probably not. That's why projects like this are needed.
- johnchristopher 11y agoBut... I haven't had the time to play Fable II yet :(.