5 ms·

> like saying the word “fútbol” instead of soccer Hispanic folks: Is this in fact a thing that feels alienating to you? If so, would you be willing to explain

> like saying the word “fútbol” instead of soccer Hispanic folks: Is this in fact a thing that feels alienating to you? If so, would you be willing to explain why? It is the first time I've heard about it so I'd just like to confirm that Conor Friedersdorf is referring to a real thing.

sho 11y ago
The author appears to be referring to a previous piece: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-rise-of-victimhood-culture/404794/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-rise...
- afarrell 11y ago
  Huh. That email exchange is actually a pretty good example of concept creep as applied to the concept of cultural appropriation.
  - spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
    So remind me again who invented Football (Soccer) by the offended persons rules those of us form the UK should be offended by the appropriation of Football :-) Sorry of course this is Association football we are talking about and not Rugby :-)
gaius 11y ago
Football is the British English word for soccer, a game that is played with your foot on the ball obviously. I've never heard of anyone finding "futbol" to be cultural appropriation of that.
pessimizer 11y ago
I'm not Hispanic, and don't care at all about soccer, but I imagine it would be aggravating as hell. I'm black, and when white people call me bro, or start speaking in dialect - I honestly start to hate them. For cultural reasons, when a lot of white Americans are talking about getting fighting and getting angry, or partying and having fun, relaxing and being lazy, flirting or getting laid, or one-upping people or hustling for money, they drop into a black dialect (and an entire stereotypical affect) for a moment. Even upper-middle class black people do it sometimes - Oprah is famous for it. I spoke like that growing up on the South Side of Chicago, my grandparents speak like that, and many of the people I love speak like that. People are dropping into dialect because, deep down, they think of black people as a bunch of violent, lazy, partying, horny grifters - and find it very amusing and black of themselves when they experience anger, laziness, joy, sexual arousal, or pride at their own craftiness. This is the reason why most pop music is delivered in black dialect. It reminds me of what they think of me, and my family, although they would never acknowledge it to me, and many wouldn't acknowledge it to themselves. To be clear, I'm not a fan of oversensitivity and preciousness, or "microaggressions" or cultural studies departments, or theory-theory psychology in general, which I think is just secular religion. But someone dropping into dialect when they talk to you is not all that subtle. I could see Hispanic people feeling stereotyped by soccer stuff. Soccer is English, it's called "football" in English, so what's this urge to drop into Spanish dialect all of a sudden? Do you drop into dialect when you talk to your white friends? If you do, why? edit: And I don't mean to imply that white people don't get treated like this - I hear people drop into an Italian-American affect a lot when they're talking about being criminals, or being rapey.
- existencebox 11y ago
  Honest question, since I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to ask this, but I'm curious where that line sits for you? To provide context while answering something you asked, I grew up in philly. I went to a city high school. I have (and most of the other white kids I associated with have) some parts of a philly accent, which I'm very aware I revert to when I, as you say, start partying/relaxing, but in my case it's because I'm relaxing the forced inflection of my speech, and my more natural way of talking comes out. The same thing happens if I talk to someone with a similar east coast manner of speech out of a natural desire to express similarity and establish comfort with the conversation partner. (to answer your, I imagine somewhat rhetorical, question about "do you drop into dialect... white friends", since the above is a thing sans-race) I can tell you authoritatively, although you may not believe me (or say I should stop anyway, which would beg other questions on my part), that there's no "deep opinion" of black culture or speech in that, in fact, the highschool was unfortunately VERY self segregating and most of the white kids didn't have enough interaction to form deep opinions. (which is part of why I'd be curious to ask now about the accent thing, since I know that ALL of the kids there, race aside, picked it up to some degree but it was never something that was discussed, since we just... didn't really talk.) I say this largely in the hope, if we ever talk and I accidentally let that show, that you would think better of me for it and not start to hate :) (the world already has plenty of that, as you point out from the insinuations you identify)
  - pessimizer 11y ago
    > I can tell you authoritatively, although you may not believe me (or say I should stop anyway, which would beg other questions on my part), that there's no "deep opinion" of black culture or speech in that, in fact, the highschool was unfortunately VERY self segregating and most of the white kids didn't have enough interaction to form deep opinions. (which is part of why I'd be curious to ask now about the accent thing, since I know that ALL of the kids there, race aside, picked it up to some degree but it was never something that was discussed, since we just... didn't really talk.) I'd say the fact that one does pick up a dialect without much exposure to black people means that they do have a deep opinion of black culture - enough to imitate it without any social reason involving black people. They're trying to communicate something to the white people they interact with - what is it? I know white people who have grown up completely surrounded by black people, with black relatives, black parents, black children, and have a harder time straightening out their speech than I do because I've hung out with tons of white people since I was a teenager. It's different than a white person who was/is isolated from black people constructing some practised black affect. I bet I can tell Philly from dialect though. There's plenty of white people who have a natural accent close to a lot of black people. It's not really what I'm talking about.
mooseburger 11y ago
I'm Puerto Rican. I've never heard of someone being offended at an American saying futbol. Then again, we say soccer over here, unlike all other Spanish speaking nations. As for myself, I just think it would be silly to hear. I assume an American who does that would merely be trying to be accommodating.
spriggan3 11y ago
Most of the world calls soccer Football so this is yet again an american only issue. I can't believe someone would be "triggered" by such a silly thing, it's like some people are actively seeking outrage for a reason I don't know. To get popular on social medias? and get many likes on Twitter? to feel like they are victim of racism every second? or just to get attention, I really don't understand.
gus_massa 11y ago
Hi from Argentina! The land of Maradona and Messi, but not Pele. I find strange and slightly annoying that they say "soccer" instead of "football", but I consider that a part of the strange quirks of en-us, like calling "America" to "USA" or writing "January 1st" instead of "1st of January". But I'd nerved consider any of that like a type of offense or micro/macro aggression. All that paragraph is very suspicious. For example, the reactions to the tequila sombreros and the Trump chalk signs were exaggerated by the press coverage: http://www.snopes.com/bowdoin-mini-sombrero-controversy/ http://www.snopes.com/bowdoin-mini-sombrero-controversy/ http://www.snopes.com/emory-students-trump-graffiti/ http://www.snopes.com/emory-students-trump-graffiti/

sho 11y ago

The author appears to be referring to a previous piece: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-rise-of-victimhood-culture/404794/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-rise...

afarrell 11y ago
Huh. That email exchange is actually a pretty good example of concept creep as applied to the concept of cultural appropriation.
- spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
  So remind me again who invented Football (Soccer) by the offended persons rules those of us form the UK should be offended by the appropriation of Football :-) Sorry of course this is Association football we are talking about and not Rugby :-)

gaius 11y ago

Football is the British English word for soccer, a game that is played with your foot on the ball obviously. I've never heard of anyone finding "futbol" to be cultural appropriation of that.

pessimizer 11y ago

I'm not Hispanic, and don't care at all about soccer, but I imagine it would be aggravating as hell. I'm black, and when white people call me bro, or start speaking in dialect - I honestly start to hate them. For cultural reasons, when a lot of white Americans are talking about getting fighting and getting angry, or partying and having fun, relaxing and being lazy, flirting or getting laid, or one-upping people or hustling for money, they drop into a black dialect (and an entire stereotypical affect) for a moment. Even upper-middle class black people do it sometimes - Oprah is famous for it. I spoke like that growing up on the South Side of Chicago, my grandparents speak like that, and many of the people I love speak like that. People are dropping into dialect because, deep down, they think of black people as a bunch of violent, lazy, partying, horny grifters - and find it very amusing and black of themselves when they experience anger, laziness, joy, sexual arousal, or pride at their own craftiness. This is the reason why most pop music is delivered in black dialect. It reminds me of what they think of me, and my family, although they would never acknowledge it to me, and many wouldn't acknowledge it to themselves. To be clear, I'm not a fan of oversensitivity and preciousness, or "microaggressions" or cultural studies departments, or theory-theory psychology in general, which I think is just secular religion. But someone dropping into dialect when they talk to you is not all that subtle. I could see Hispanic people feeling stereotyped by soccer stuff. Soccer is English, it's called "football" in English, so what's this urge to drop into Spanish dialect all of a sudden? Do you drop into dialect when you talk to your white friends? If you do, why? edit: And I don't mean to imply that white people don't get treated like this - I hear people drop into an Italian-American affect a lot when they're talking about being criminals, or being rapey.

existencebox 11y ago
Honest question, since I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to ask this, but I'm curious where that line sits for you? To provide context while answering something you asked, I grew up in philly. I went to a city high school. I have (and most of the other white kids I associated with have) some parts of a philly accent, which I'm very aware I revert to when I, as you say, start partying/relaxing, but in my case it's because I'm relaxing the forced inflection of my speech, and my more natural way of talking comes out. The same thing happens if I talk to someone with a similar east coast manner of speech out of a natural desire to express similarity and establish comfort with the conversation partner. (to answer your, I imagine somewhat rhetorical, question about "do you drop into dialect... white friends", since the above is a thing sans-race) I can tell you authoritatively, although you may not believe me (or say I should stop anyway, which would beg other questions on my part), that there's no "deep opinion" of black culture or speech in that, in fact, the highschool was unfortunately VERY self segregating and most of the white kids didn't have enough interaction to form deep opinions. (which is part of why I'd be curious to ask now about the accent thing, since I know that ALL of the kids there, race aside, picked it up to some degree but it was never something that was discussed, since we just... didn't really talk.) I say this largely in the hope, if we ever talk and I accidentally let that show, that you would think better of me for it and not start to hate :) (the world already has plenty of that, as you point out from the insinuations you identify)
- pessimizer 11y ago
  > I can tell you authoritatively, although you may not believe me (or say I should stop anyway, which would beg other questions on my part), that there's no "deep opinion" of black culture or speech in that, in fact, the highschool was unfortunately VERY self segregating and most of the white kids didn't have enough interaction to form deep opinions. (which is part of why I'd be curious to ask now about the accent thing, since I know that ALL of the kids there, race aside, picked it up to some degree but it was never something that was discussed, since we just... didn't really talk.) I'd say the fact that one does pick up a dialect without much exposure to black people means that they do have a deep opinion of black culture - enough to imitate it without any social reason involving black people. They're trying to communicate something to the white people they interact with - what is it? I know white people who have grown up completely surrounded by black people, with black relatives, black parents, black children, and have a harder time straightening out their speech than I do because I've hung out with tons of white people since I was a teenager. It's different than a white person who was/is isolated from black people constructing some practised black affect. I bet I can tell Philly from dialect though. There's plenty of white people who have a natural accent close to a lot of black people. It's not really what I'm talking about.

mooseburger 11y ago

I'm Puerto Rican. I've never heard of someone being offended at an American saying futbol. Then again, we say soccer over here, unlike all other Spanish speaking nations. As for myself, I just think it would be silly to hear. I assume an American who does that would merely be trying to be accommodating.

spriggan3 11y ago

Most of the world calls soccer Football so this is yet again an american only issue. I can't believe someone would be "triggered" by such a silly thing, it's like some people are actively seeking outrage for a reason I don't know. To get popular on social medias? and get many likes on Twitter? to feel like they are victim of racism every second? or just to get attention, I really don't understand.

gus_massa 11y ago

Hi from Argentina! The land of Maradona and Messi, but not Pele. I find strange and slightly annoying that they say "soccer" instead of "football", but I consider that a part of the strange quirks of en-us, like calling "America" to "USA" or writing "January 1st" instead of "1st of January". But I'd nerved consider any of that like a type of offense or micro/macro aggression. All that paragraph is very suspicious. For example, the reactions to the tequila sombreros and the Trump chalk signs were exaggerated by the press coverage: http://www.snopes.com/bowdoin-mini-sombrero-controversy/ http://www.snopes.com/bowdoin-mini-sombrero-controversy/ http://www.snopes.com/emory-students-trump-graffiti/ http://www.snopes.com/emory-students-trump-graffiti/