6 ms·

Their guidelines page (https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/) has some pretty curt l

by acrooks 10y ago

Their guidelines page (https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/) has some pretty curt language. Interesting how terse and forward they are here as compared to other Apple docs. Reads as if a jaded reviewer wrote it :)

glhaynes 10y ago
I always thought the original version of that page (it looks like it hasn't changed much) sounded very Jobsian. "If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps" in particular sounds like him.
- aljones 10y ago
  Yeah. https://youtu.be/TVJ4VnN6YPY?t=3422 https://youtu.be/TVJ4VnN6YPY?t=3422
ikawe 10y ago
>Apps or metadata that mentions the name of any other mobile platform will be rejected So if I have a cross platform messaging app, I can't say, "syncs with android and Windows phone devices". Really? >Apps cannot use Push Notifications to send advertising, promotions, or direct marketing of any kind Ahem Lyft.
- jasonjei 10y ago
  > 10.3 Apps that do not use system provided items, such as buttons and icons, correctly and as described in the Apple iOS Human Interface Guidelines may be rejected Edit: Alright, I'm taking a slaughtering on karma. Point taken. You can implement your own widgets on iOS. Please accept my apologies to all for my original comment that I thought Google wasn't in compliance and for my misguided interpretation.
  - TillE 10y ago
    "Apps that do not use system provided items...correctly...may be rejected"
    - jasonjei 10y ago
      [deleted] - I apologize for my misguided interpretation of 10.3, you may implement your own controls. I have taken your point via moderation. To all whom I have offended, I apologize.
      - tsieling 10y ago
        The small studio I work at has shipped numerous apps with non-standard UI and we've had no problems. I think they reserve the option to reject something they find unusable or otherwise objectionable.
      - josephpmay 10y ago
        I believe, if I'm reading it right, that you can implement your own, but if you use theirs you can't use them incorrectly.
        masklinn 10y ago
        Not even that, such a use may lead to rejection, but won't necessarily do so. Most other rules state that breach will lead to rejection unconditionally. This one is conditional because it's contextual, so that developers correctly use standard controls[0] for regular applications, but can still implement their own controls in e.g. games. There's also a fair bit of leeway for developers with their own "style" e.g. I don't think tapbots uses a single system-standard widget. [0] and their accessibility support, and "skin" changes with the system's evolution
      - k-mcgrady 10y ago
        99.9% sure your reading is not correct. I'm not sure how you read it that way actually, it seems pretty clear. If you choose to use system provided UI objects they must be used the way Apple intends them to be used. For example a user tapping a UIButton expects a certain action to take place. Using buttons to display text (not perform in actions) in place of the correct object (UILabel) would lead to rejection.
- MicroBerto 10y ago
  > Apps cannot use Push Notifications to send advertising, promotions, or direct marketing of any kind What if that is the whole point of the app? ie we run a deals engine, users who install would be installing exclusively for such content!
  - masklinn 10y ago
    Then Apple does not want you in their store?
    - MicroBerto 10y ago
      I figured not... which is why we've never made an app anyway. Fair is fair
  - rbritton 10y ago
    That particular rule is pretty universally ignored. Even Apple breaks it [0]. [0]: https://marco.org/2014/12/01/app-store-rule-5-6 https://marco.org/2014/12/01/app-store-rule-5-6
- fredley 10y ago
  > So if I have a cross platform messaging app, I can't say, "syncs with android and Windows phone devices". Really? Really[1]. 1: http://www.cultofmac.com/320141/apple-rejecting-ios-pebble-apps/ http://www.cultofmac.com/320141/apple-rejecting-ios-pebble-a...
- masklinn 10y ago
  > So if I have a cross platform messaging app, I can't say, "syncs with android and Windows phone devices". Really? You can't say it in the application or its metadata (e.g. appstore listing), no. > Ahem Lyft. Report them?
  - thisisdave 10y ago
    How? With a bad review, or some other method? I didn't see anything on the App Store page, but I might have been looking in the wrong places.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - duaneb 10y ago
    > Report them? Why? It's a clear win for everyone but Apple to mention cross-platform capabilities when you have them. The iOS store is full of apps that refuse to acknowledge the existence of any non-apple products you might use or want to sync/integrate with. If anything, you should push back against Apple directly. Good luck.... Edit: disregard, I cannot read.
    - FireBeyond 10y ago
      He means report Lyft for spamming you with promos and ads via notifications.
- pareci 10y ago
  I'm trying to understand ego. I think, as part of it, "ikawe" would not mention an app that "ikawe" wrote that uses push notifications to send advertising. Ego classifies things as "bad" or "good", and notices "bad" in others and "good" in self.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  This is old news.
elcapitan 10y ago
I wish their iTunes EULAs etc. were that clear.
- duskwuff 10y ago
  EULAs are legal documents. This inherently makes them wordy, because they have to be valid, completely unambiguous, and satisfy all sorts of legal requirements in hundreds of different jurisdictions. The App Store submission guidelines, by contrast, aren't a legal document. They're essentially just documentation, and as such can be written however Apple sees fit.
  - elcapitan 10y ago
    I know that. There is the possibility though to have a human readable EULA side by side with the lawyer readable one. That would actually be fair towards the users. Here's a good example: https://about.500px.com/terms/ https://about.500px.com/terms/
    - masklinn 10y ago
      > I know that. There is the possibility though to have a human readable EULA side by side with the lawyer readable one. That would actually be fair towards the users. I'm guessing the lawyers would reject that for fear of what'd happen in case of conflicts between the "lawyer" version and reasonable interpretations of the "human-readable" version.
      - elcapitan 10y ago
        They use 60 unreadable pages abandoning all my rights on anything i do with the software, they can spend another line declaring that the human version is not binding.
        masklinn 10y ago
        They're corporate lawyers, do you expect them to have compassion or something? What next, HR putting employees first?
kfinley 10y ago
> 2.7 Apps that download code in any way or form will be rejected Is this an indication that things like CodePush[0] may be rejected in the future? 0: http://microsoft.github.io/code-push http://microsoft.github.io/code-push
- jasonjei 10y ago
  Or even GitMongo or Downloads or iOctocat or Dropbox, albeit in uncompiled or text or binary forms ;) some of these apps even let you download HTML that run JavaScript...
- masklinn 10y ago
  This page is a "quick guidelines" version of the actual Developer Program Agreements[0]. As per the DPA's rule 3.3.2 code downloaded and executed via the built-in webview is exempt from this limitation: > 3.3.2 An Application may not download or install executable code. Interpreted code may only be used in an Application if all scripts, code and interpreters are packaged in the Application and not downloaded. The only exception to the foregoing is scripts and code downloaded and run by Apple's built-in WebKit framework or JavascriptCore, provided that such scripts and code do not change the primary purpose of the Application by providing features or functionality that are inconsistent with the intended and advertised purpose of the Application as submitted to the App Store. (emphasis mine) which is why e.g. you can build a browser around the system webview or build code-push, but you can't publish your own browser with its rendering and JS engines. [0] https://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/information/iOS_Program_Information_4_3_15.pdf https://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/information/iOS_Pro...
- 0x0 10y ago
  Very risky, at least. Apple seems dead set on apps not changing behavior without going through the review process again.
masklinn 10y ago
Note that this is a guidelines listing, the point is to be a curt/easy read version of the iOS Developer Program Requirements for reviewers[0] and developers (which it actually refers to in 27.1). The complete actual rules are in the DPR. [0] IIRC it was originally an internal document, which got leaked way back
- duskwuff 10y ago
  These guidelines are the rules. The Developer Program License Agreement referenced in 27.1 is something else.
  - masklinn 10y ago
    > These guidelines are the rules. They're not rules they're guidelines. That's in the name. Which is why they don't mention the webview exemption to guideline 2.7 for instance. > The Developer Program License Agreement referenced in 27.1 is something else. No, the agreement the actual thing developers sign on and must follow.
    - galistoca 10y ago
      The detail semantics don't matter. When you get a rejection letter, they always explicitly mention items on that guideline. What else would you call a "rule"?
copperx 10y ago
I had to do a double take after the first paragraphs. Am I at Apple's site? From the website: > If you want to criticize a religion, write a book. If you want to describe sex, write a book or a song, or create a medical App.

by acrooks 10y ago

glhaynes 10y ago

I always thought the original version of that page (it looks like it hasn't changed much) sounded very Jobsian. "If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps" in particular sounds like him.

aljones 10y ago
Yeah. https://youtu.be/TVJ4VnN6YPY?t=3422 https://youtu.be/TVJ4VnN6YPY?t=3422

ikawe 10y ago

>Apps or metadata that mentions the name of any other mobile platform will be rejected So if I have a cross platform messaging app, I can't say, "syncs with android and Windows phone devices". Really? >Apps cannot use Push Notifications to send advertising, promotions, or direct marketing of any kind Ahem Lyft.

jasonjei 10y ago
> 10.3 Apps that do not use system provided items, such as buttons and icons, correctly and as described in the Apple iOS Human Interface Guidelines may be rejected Edit: Alright, I'm taking a slaughtering on karma. Point taken. You can implement your own widgets on iOS. Please accept my apologies to all for my original comment that I thought Google wasn't in compliance and for my misguided interpretation.
- TillE 10y ago
  "Apps that do not use system provided items...correctly...may be rejected"
  - jasonjei 10y ago
    [deleted] - I apologize for my misguided interpretation of 10.3, you may implement your own controls. I have taken your point via moderation. To all whom I have offended, I apologize.
    - tsieling 10y ago
      The small studio I work at has shipped numerous apps with non-standard UI and we've had no problems. I think they reserve the option to reject something they find unusable or otherwise objectionable.
    - josephpmay 10y ago
      I believe, if I'm reading it right, that you can implement your own, but if you use theirs you can't use them incorrectly.
      - masklinn 10y ago
        Not even that, such a use may lead to rejection, but won't necessarily do so. Most other rules state that breach will lead to rejection unconditionally. This one is conditional because it's contextual, so that developers correctly use standard controls[0] for regular applications, but can still implement their own controls in e.g. games. There's also a fair bit of leeway for developers with their own "style" e.g. I don't think tapbots uses a single system-standard widget. [0] and their accessibility support, and "skin" changes with the system's evolution
    - k-mcgrady 10y ago
      99.9% sure your reading is not correct. I'm not sure how you read it that way actually, it seems pretty clear. If you choose to use system provided UI objects they must be used the way Apple intends them to be used. For example a user tapping a UIButton expects a certain action to take place. Using buttons to display text (not perform in actions) in place of the correct object (UILabel) would lead to rejection.
MicroBerto 10y ago
> Apps cannot use Push Notifications to send advertising, promotions, or direct marketing of any kind What if that is the whole point of the app? ie we run a deals engine, users who install would be installing exclusively for such content!
- masklinn 10y ago
  Then Apple does not want you in their store?
  - MicroBerto 10y ago
    I figured not... which is why we've never made an app anyway. Fair is fair
- rbritton 10y ago
  That particular rule is pretty universally ignored. Even Apple breaks it [0]. [0]: https://marco.org/2014/12/01/app-store-rule-5-6 https://marco.org/2014/12/01/app-store-rule-5-6
fredley 10y ago
> So if I have a cross platform messaging app, I can't say, "syncs with android and Windows phone devices". Really? Really[1]. 1: http://www.cultofmac.com/320141/apple-rejecting-ios-pebble-apps/ http://www.cultofmac.com/320141/apple-rejecting-ios-pebble-a...
masklinn 10y ago
> So if I have a cross platform messaging app, I can't say, "syncs with android and Windows phone devices". Really? You can't say it in the application or its metadata (e.g. appstore listing), no. > Ahem Lyft. Report them?
- thisisdave 10y ago
  How? With a bad review, or some other method? I didn't see anything on the App Store page, but I might have been looking in the wrong places.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- duaneb 10y ago
  > Report them? Why? It's a clear win for everyone but Apple to mention cross-platform capabilities when you have them. The iOS store is full of apps that refuse to acknowledge the existence of any non-apple products you might use or want to sync/integrate with. If anything, you should push back against Apple directly. Good luck.... Edit: disregard, I cannot read.
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    He means report Lyft for spamming you with promos and ads via notifications.
pareci 10y ago
I'm trying to understand ego. I think, as part of it, "ikawe" would not mention an app that "ikawe" wrote that uses push notifications to send advertising. Ego classifies things as "bad" or "good", and notices "bad" in others and "good" in self.
st3v3r 10y ago
This is old news.

elcapitan 10y ago

I wish their iTunes EULAs etc. were that clear.

duskwuff 10y ago
EULAs are legal documents. This inherently makes them wordy, because they have to be valid, completely unambiguous, and satisfy all sorts of legal requirements in hundreds of different jurisdictions. The App Store submission guidelines, by contrast, aren't a legal document. They're essentially just documentation, and as such can be written however Apple sees fit.
- elcapitan 10y ago
  I know that. There is the possibility though to have a human readable EULA side by side with the lawyer readable one. That would actually be fair towards the users. Here's a good example: https://about.500px.com/terms/ https://about.500px.com/terms/
  - masklinn 10y ago
    > I know that. There is the possibility though to have a human readable EULA side by side with the lawyer readable one. That would actually be fair towards the users. I'm guessing the lawyers would reject that for fear of what'd happen in case of conflicts between the "lawyer" version and reasonable interpretations of the "human-readable" version.
    - elcapitan 10y ago
      They use 60 unreadable pages abandoning all my rights on anything i do with the software, they can spend another line declaring that the human version is not binding.
      - masklinn 10y ago
        They're corporate lawyers, do you expect them to have compassion or something? What next, HR putting employees first?

kfinley 10y ago

> 2.7 Apps that download code in any way or form will be rejected Is this an indication that things like CodePush[0] may be rejected in the future? 0: http://microsoft.github.io/code-push http://microsoft.github.io/code-push

jasonjei 10y ago
Or even GitMongo or Downloads or iOctocat or Dropbox, albeit in uncompiled or text or binary forms ;) some of these apps even let you download HTML that run JavaScript...
masklinn 10y ago
This page is a "quick guidelines" version of the actual Developer Program Agreements[0]. As per the DPA's rule 3.3.2 code downloaded and executed via the built-in webview is exempt from this limitation: > 3.3.2 An Application may not download or install executable code. Interpreted code may only be used in an Application if all scripts, code and interpreters are packaged in the Application and not downloaded. The only exception to the foregoing is scripts and code downloaded and run by Apple's built-in WebKit framework or JavascriptCore, provided that such scripts and code do not change the primary purpose of the Application by providing features or functionality that are inconsistent with the intended and advertised purpose of the Application as submitted to the App Store. (emphasis mine) which is why e.g. you can build a browser around the system webview or build code-push, but you can't publish your own browser with its rendering and JS engines. [0] https://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/information/iOS_Program_Information_4_3_15.pdf https://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/information/iOS_Pro...
0x0 10y ago
Very risky, at least. Apple seems dead set on apps not changing behavior without going through the review process again.

masklinn 10y ago

Note that this is a guidelines listing, the point is to be a curt/easy read version of the iOS Developer Program Requirements for reviewers[0] and developers (which it actually refers to in 27.1). The complete actual rules are in the DPR. [0] IIRC it was originally an internal document, which got leaked way back

duskwuff 10y ago
These guidelines are the rules. The Developer Program License Agreement referenced in 27.1 is something else.
- masklinn 10y ago
  > These guidelines are the rules. They're not rules they're guidelines. That's in the name. Which is why they don't mention the webview exemption to guideline 2.7 for instance. > The Developer Program License Agreement referenced in 27.1 is something else. No, the agreement the actual thing developers sign on and must follow.
  - galistoca 10y ago
    The detail semantics don't matter. When you get a rejection letter, they always explicitly mention items on that guideline. What else would you call a "rule"?

copperx 10y ago

I had to do a double take after the first paragraphs. Am I at Apple's site? From the website: > If you want to criticize a religion, write a book. If you want to describe sex, write a book or a song, or create a medical App.