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As someone who upgraded my own 13" MacBook Pro to 16GB RAM, I would NEVER recommend 16GB to anyone except those who can justify it. The extra RAM has some big

As someone who upgraded my own 13" MacBook Pro to 16GB RAM, I would NEVER recommend 16GB to anyone except those who can justify it. The extra RAM has some big disadvantages: 1. As I recall, I lost about 40 minutes run time on batteries. 2. It decreases battery sleep time. Prior to the upgrade, I could go for 4 or 5 days in sleep, and still have useful enough battery life. Now it is more like 2 or 3 days. 3. It dramatically increases time to sleep and wake from sleep. 4. It eats valuable SSD space. You need 16GB to sleep. And you swap files will be bigger. You likely need a bigger SSD to support the RAM 5. RAM does cost money up front. If you do need 16GB, you know it and should be ready for these trade offs. As someone who regularly runs 2 or 3 browsers, Mac and Linux development tools, MS Office, Adobe, Linux and Windows VMs, etc, I am in the class of people who need the extra RAM. Most people do not.

ghshephard 11y ago
Interesting - I had never thought about the Sleep Time impact - but that kind of makes sense. Does OS X still have a hibernate option?
- leejoramo 11y ago
  Yes, Mac OS X does have hibernate. However, "Sleep" on MacBooks is a combination of what people commonly refer to as Sleep and Hibernation I believe that the current method is to Sleep the system with both keeping the RAM powered AND write RAM to the drive. If there is enough battery, the system will wake fast by using the current RAM, if the battery dies, it recovers from the RAM image stored on drive. This works well for most people using base configurations. For those of us using the limits of the hardware, it might not give the preferred results. There are various GUI and CLI tools such as SmartSleep to control Sleep and Hibernate based on your preferences and taking into consideration the current battery level. https://www.jinx.de/SmartSleep.html https://www.jinx.de/SmartSleep.html
  - ghshephard 11y ago
    Thank you so much - this is the application that I've been looking for so long. It does everything that I've ever wanted, and, in particularly, with the insomnia plugin, lets me disable sleep (Mail.app craps out if you return from sleep, a bunch of my VPN stuff goes nuts) when you close your lid. This avoids the insanely awkward dance I have to do holding a laptop 2" open and hoping I neither drop it, or accidentally close the lid. And, as another bonus, I have a "Click to Hibernate" feature that I've been wanting for a long time. My return from hibernation is very fast, and, in theory, the battery loss should be fairly minimal while in a hibernate state.
    - cpncrunch 11y ago
      There's no need to pay for software to do this. It's just a matter of running a single command as root to change the hibernate mode: http://www.markc.me.uk/blog/files/OSXSafeSleep.html http://www.markc.me.uk/blog/files/OSXSafeSleep.html
      - leejoramo 11y ago
        If all you want to do is change the Sleep/Hibernate modes you are correct that the command line will do it for you. SmartSleep does add a significant trick, it allows you to automatically change the mode based on the current battery level.
    - blacksmith_tb 11y ago
      If you need to prevent your machine from sleeping for a while (like if you've got something running that you really don't want interrupted) there's always caffeinate -t $NUMBER_OF_SECONDS[1] 1: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man8/caffeinate.8.html https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Darwin... I haven't experimented with using it to try and keep a machine running with the lid closed, however - that's traditionally considered risky for heat reasons.
    - dzhiurgis 11y ago
      If I need the machine to keep running but not sleeping, I just use ctrl+shift+power to lock the screen.
  - api 11y ago
    You can turn hibernate off with 'sudo pmset' on OSX. It's one of the first things I do on a new Mac since I find it pointless.
danieldk 11y ago
6. OS X has done memory compression since 10.9, which gives you more than 8GB in practice.
- leejoramo 11y ago
  Agreed. Last year, I had to have my MacBook's motherboard replaced. During this time, I cloned my system to a MacBook Air with only 4GB RAM. This did severely cramp my working style. I could not run multiple VM's, and things were slower with swapping. However, I was surprised at how much work I was still able to do. I felt the slowness of the CPU far more than the limited RAM. I am happy to be back to 16GB except when I look at battery life. And I could adapt to less RAM.
- ghshephard 11y ago
  I'm still running 10.8.5 - I run my system very, very hard, typically 20-30 Apps simultaneously with multiple Fusion VMs, and 50+ tabs in the browser, all three browsers, running, Aperture, Full Office suite - and I've never run into an issue with memory. Unless you are running XCode, or Video Editing, or some of the heavy Adobe Suite/SomeOtherSpecializedNicheWorkstationApp - you really don't need more than 8 GiB on OS X (at lease as of 10.8.5). I'm guessing that SSDs and swapping really changed the game around virtual memory performance on Mac laptops.
maccard 11y ago
These are all valid points, if you're running a laptop machine. As someone who runs a desktop machine, 1 through 4 are not an issue for me.
- orbitur 11y ago
  > These are all valid points, if you're running a laptop machine. Well, yeah. This thread is centered around laptops, after all.
coldtea 11y ago
>3. It dramatically increases time to sleep and wake from sleep. Well, I'll have to call BS on that. It maybe increase it, but hardly "dramatically". In fact time to sleep/wake is fast enough to barely care about it. And I have 16GB RAM and the older, 2013 era, SSDs. Newer MBP SSDs are 2x-3x the speed of mine. Plus, since then Apple added memory compression...
- mitchty 11y ago
  Meh, even with a mbp with 16gb of memory, I still want more. I'd like 64 or even 32. I tend to be running enough linux vm's for dev with things like kernel stuff that the more the merrier. That and I'm a bit heavy on the tab (ab)use.
- leejoramo 11y ago
  I can only report on the reality of my own setup. I have a 2011 era 13 inch MacBook Pro with a 500GB Samsung SSD 840 SSD. When I upgraded to 16GB two years ago, I immediately noticed that my wake/sleep times went from a few seconds to more like 30 to 40 seconds. Now I did do the RAM and SSD upgrades at the same time. I went from 8GB of RAM and a 250GB SSD. I remember spending some time trying to figure out why wake/sleep times where so hugely increased. I could never pin it down exactly, but I strongly suspect it was related to the RAM increase.
kilroy123 11y ago
No way, 8 isn't enough if you need to run a VM and everything else.

ghshephard 11y ago

Interesting - I had never thought about the Sleep Time impact - but that kind of makes sense. Does OS X still have a hibernate option?

leejoramo 11y ago
Yes, Mac OS X does have hibernate. However, "Sleep" on MacBooks is a combination of what people commonly refer to as Sleep and Hibernation I believe that the current method is to Sleep the system with both keeping the RAM powered AND write RAM to the drive. If there is enough battery, the system will wake fast by using the current RAM, if the battery dies, it recovers from the RAM image stored on drive. This works well for most people using base configurations. For those of us using the limits of the hardware, it might not give the preferred results. There are various GUI and CLI tools such as SmartSleep to control Sleep and Hibernate based on your preferences and taking into consideration the current battery level. https://www.jinx.de/SmartSleep.html https://www.jinx.de/SmartSleep.html
- ghshephard 11y ago
  Thank you so much - this is the application that I've been looking for so long. It does everything that I've ever wanted, and, in particularly, with the insomnia plugin, lets me disable sleep (Mail.app craps out if you return from sleep, a bunch of my VPN stuff goes nuts) when you close your lid. This avoids the insanely awkward dance I have to do holding a laptop 2" open and hoping I neither drop it, or accidentally close the lid. And, as another bonus, I have a "Click to Hibernate" feature that I've been wanting for a long time. My return from hibernation is very fast, and, in theory, the battery loss should be fairly minimal while in a hibernate state.
  - cpncrunch 11y ago
    There's no need to pay for software to do this. It's just a matter of running a single command as root to change the hibernate mode: http://www.markc.me.uk/blog/files/OSXSafeSleep.html http://www.markc.me.uk/blog/files/OSXSafeSleep.html
    - leejoramo 11y ago
      If all you want to do is change the Sleep/Hibernate modes you are correct that the command line will do it for you. SmartSleep does add a significant trick, it allows you to automatically change the mode based on the current battery level.
  - blacksmith_tb 11y ago
    If you need to prevent your machine from sleeping for a while (like if you've got something running that you really don't want interrupted) there's always caffeinate -t $NUMBER_OF_SECONDS[1] 1: https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man8/caffeinate.8.html https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Darwin... I haven't experimented with using it to try and keep a machine running with the lid closed, however - that's traditionally considered risky for heat reasons.
  - dzhiurgis 11y ago
    If I need the machine to keep running but not sleeping, I just use ctrl+shift+power to lock the screen.
- api 11y ago
  You can turn hibernate off with 'sudo pmset' on OSX. It's one of the first things I do on a new Mac since I find it pointless.

danieldk 11y ago

6. OS X has done memory compression since 10.9, which gives you more than 8GB in practice.

leejoramo 11y ago
Agreed. Last year, I had to have my MacBook's motherboard replaced. During this time, I cloned my system to a MacBook Air with only 4GB RAM. This did severely cramp my working style. I could not run multiple VM's, and things were slower with swapping. However, I was surprised at how much work I was still able to do. I felt the slowness of the CPU far more than the limited RAM. I am happy to be back to 16GB except when I look at battery life. And I could adapt to less RAM.
ghshephard 11y ago
I'm still running 10.8.5 - I run my system very, very hard, typically 20-30 Apps simultaneously with multiple Fusion VMs, and 50+ tabs in the browser, all three browsers, running, Aperture, Full Office suite - and I've never run into an issue with memory. Unless you are running XCode, or Video Editing, or some of the heavy Adobe Suite/SomeOtherSpecializedNicheWorkstationApp - you really don't need more than 8 GiB on OS X (at lease as of 10.8.5). I'm guessing that SSDs and swapping really changed the game around virtual memory performance on Mac laptops.

maccard 11y ago

These are all valid points, if you're running a laptop machine. As someone who runs a desktop machine, 1 through 4 are not an issue for me.

orbitur 11y ago
> These are all valid points, if you're running a laptop machine. Well, yeah. This thread is centered around laptops, after all.

coldtea 11y ago

>3. It dramatically increases time to sleep and wake from sleep. Well, I'll have to call BS on that. It maybe increase it, but hardly "dramatically". In fact time to sleep/wake is fast enough to barely care about it. And I have 16GB RAM and the older, 2013 era, SSDs. Newer MBP SSDs are 2x-3x the speed of mine. Plus, since then Apple added memory compression...

mitchty 11y ago
Meh, even with a mbp with 16gb of memory, I still want more. I'd like 64 or even 32. I tend to be running enough linux vm's for dev with things like kernel stuff that the more the merrier. That and I'm a bit heavy on the tab (ab)use.
leejoramo 11y ago
I can only report on the reality of my own setup. I have a 2011 era 13 inch MacBook Pro with a 500GB Samsung SSD 840 SSD. When I upgraded to 16GB two years ago, I immediately noticed that my wake/sleep times went from a few seconds to more like 30 to 40 seconds. Now I did do the RAM and SSD upgrades at the same time. I went from 8GB of RAM and a 250GB SSD. I remember spending some time trying to figure out why wake/sleep times where so hugely increased. I could never pin it down exactly, but I strongly suspect it was related to the RAM increase.

kilroy123 11y ago

No way, 8 isn't enough if you need to run a VM and everything else.