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My biggest concern with solar power (which, by the way, may be based on outdated information) is that the production of photovoltaic cells produce more greenhou

My biggest concern with solar power (which, by the way, may be based on outdated information) is that the production of photovoltaic cells produce more greenhouse gasses than will be spared in the cell's operational lifetime. To ask an actual question: is this still the case? (Was it ever?)

api 11y ago
This is directly tied to EROEI. If the EROEI of a cell is greater than 1X, it will produce more energy that it took to manufacture it. In that case it's net-negative -- over time it replaces fossil fuels in a net sense. Lately I've read EROEI numbers for solar PV from 10-15X. So no, this is not true, and likely has not been true for a long time. It might have been true back when PV was kind of a lab curiosity and niche item.
- Gibbon1 11y ago
  The interesting thing is the EROEI (energy returned on energy invested) for oil and gas has been falling for a century. I remember reading somewhere a claim that historical EROEI for crude oil. Year EROEI 1920 125 1970 30 2010 15 Things like tar sands are less than 10.
  - Retric 11y ago
    Some tar sands are below 1 once you include refining and transportation.
    - Gibbon1 11y ago
      Everything I've read about tar sands leads me to propose, 'yeah lets just not do that'
samatman 11y ago
According to this[0], solar panels are currently net energy producers, and are on track to get 'out of debt' by 2020. [0] http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/solar-panels-now-make-more-electricity-they-use http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/solar-panels-n...
strommen 11y ago
I'd like to thoroughly debunk this myth with a more illustrative reference[1]. Over its entire lifecycle, utility-scale photovoltaic power creates 48g of CO2-equivalent emissions per kWh. Natural gas emits 10x this; coal 17x. Furthermore: the majority of PV emissions are dictated by manufacturing processes, which will probably get cleaner and more efficient over time. The emissions of coal and gas are dictated by chemistry, and will never change. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-cycle_greenhouse-gas_emissions_of_energy_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-cycle_greenhouse-gas_emis...

api 11y ago

This is directly tied to EROEI. If the EROEI of a cell is greater than 1X, it will produce more energy that it took to manufacture it. In that case it's net-negative -- over time it replaces fossil fuels in a net sense. Lately I've read EROEI numbers for solar PV from 10-15X. So no, this is not true, and likely has not been true for a long time. It might have been true back when PV was kind of a lab curiosity and niche item.

Gibbon1 11y ago
The interesting thing is the EROEI (energy returned on energy invested) for oil and gas has been falling for a century. I remember reading somewhere a claim that historical EROEI for crude oil. Year EROEI 1920 125 1970 30 2010 15 Things like tar sands are less than 10.
- Retric 11y ago
  Some tar sands are below 1 once you include refining and transportation.
  - Gibbon1 11y ago
    Everything I've read about tar sands leads me to propose, 'yeah lets just not do that'

samatman 11y ago

According to this[0], solar panels are currently net energy producers, and are on track to get 'out of debt' by 2020. [0] http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/solar-panels-now-make-more-electricity-they-use http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/solar-panels-n...

strommen 11y ago

I'd like to thoroughly debunk this myth with a more illustrative reference[1]. Over its entire lifecycle, utility-scale photovoltaic power creates 48g of CO2-equivalent emissions per kWh. Natural gas emits 10x this; coal 17x. Furthermore: the majority of PV emissions are dictated by manufacturing processes, which will probably get cleaner and more efficient over time. The emissions of coal and gas are dictated by chemistry, and will never change. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-cycle_greenhouse-gas_emissions_of_energy_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-cycle_greenhouse-gas_emis...