8 ms·

Why is this gender apartheid regime our ally exactly? They finance the breeding ideology of terror worldwide and now flood the world with cheap oil aimed at des

by dukoid 11y ago

Why is this gender apartheid regime our ally exactly? They finance the breeding ideology of terror worldwide and now flood the world with cheap oil aimed at destroying the American high tech green energy industry.

TheLogothete 11y ago
So the only ally of the US in the middle east left is Israel? That would be world war 3, for sure.
- dukoid 11y ago
  Why do the US need an ally in the middle east? Allies should share values.
  - TheLogothete 11y ago
    It's a tad bit more complicated than that in real world.
  - dukoid 11y ago
    @TheLogothete I agree. "It's complicated" doesn't really counter any of the arguments substantially though.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    So Israel and the US don't share values now?
    - Retric 11y ago
      It's on the low end, less than Japan more than Brazil. The real issue is they don't share strategic interests largely by being on the other side of the planet.
      - dogma1138 11y ago
        I think you are confusing values with interest. EDIT: You seem to edit that part in, well if the US some how manages to strip any interests in the near east then yes they do not have that many strategic interests (outside of trade, research and industry). However as far as values go the are more or less on the same page, the only difference it's considerably more easy to commit to your values when everyone around you plays by the same rules. That said the US is probably the worse as far as it comes to actually living by their values of most western nations.
        Retric 11y ago
        US, is fairly balanced in terms of oil trade. We don't share borders with the area. Direct trade is relatively speaking minimal as US to Israel ~1% of total US trade. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_pa... We don't even ship stuff though the area. That said, our foreign policy really does not seem to reflect this. Values wise it's different cultures, languages, religious landscapes etc. Sure, nominally we are both liberal democracy's that value free markets. But, in practice things like immigration policy's demonstrate huge differences. PS: That said we do have close ties and are Israel's largest import and export partner.
      - TheLogothete 11y ago
        The US has interests in every square inch of the planet.
        clavalle 11y ago
        Who doesn't? We all share this tiny oasis of life.
        onetimePete 11y ago
        to stay in the analogy - and some are gazelles and some are cheetahs?
  - quanticle 11y ago
    Countries don't have values. Countries have interests. If the US had to wait until every country it dealt with lived up to the same level of democracy and civil rights that it reserves for its own citizens, we would have no allies outside of Europe.
    - Razengan 11y ago
      And Japan.
    - dukoid 11y ago
      The West certainly should help the ones that show the desire to improve. That's different from making the worst offenders the biggest allies though.
      - atmosx 11y ago
        > The West certainly should help the ones that show the desire to improve. That's different from making the worst offenders the biggest allies though. No shit. The ancient Athenians invented democracy but I believe the US has made exporting democracy all around the world a vocation. So many successes: Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Ukraine, Morocco. As a European I would like to ask to stop exporting democracy for at least a decade, the world needs a break, really.
        clavalle 11y ago
        Oh, ok. We'll go ahead and save ourselves enough cash to cover the GDP of your country, then, and ramp down our military in your neck of the woods. You don't mind defending your own democracy from the likes of Vladamir Putin et. al. right? You missed a few countries on your list a bit closer to home.
        spdustin 11y ago
        Sarcasm doesn't help. I'm an American, born and raised, and I'm frankly sick and tired that the xenophobic nonsense that the more vocal of us seeks to propagate has influenced foreign opinion of all Americans. I cannot tell you how embarrassed I've been, when on foreign soil, finding myself correcting (or worse sometimes, agreeing with) their notions of what life in America is like, because life in America is different for all of us. Homogenous isn't a word that would even occur to me to describe "the American way of life". With that kind of sarcasm, you can hardly blame them. It's incendiary speech, and you do not speak for all Americans, so kindly stop using hateful and sarcastic language while sounding like you do speak for all of us. You're free to share your own brand of "'Merica" with whomever you please, but you do not speak on my behalf. Additionally, thinly veiled threats of violence, no matter how cloaked in sarcasm they may be, betray a lack of grace under pressure, and a deeper resentment than is unhealthy to be left ignored. And GP: you don't speak for all of the EU (or of Europe) either. I'm sure you meant the former because most of the rest of Europe's populace doesn't seem to give two shits about us because they have their own problems back at home.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  WW3 with whom?
  - TheLogothete 11y ago
    A war between Israel and the Arab nations is unavoidable without the US mediating through 3rd parties (like SA). This would be an extremely large and bloody war by itself, but it will inevitably lead to hotspots in other parts of the world, like China claiming Taiwan, settling disputes India. India would want to settle disputes with Pakistan. Russia would want to claim back some part of Eastern Europe. Turkey would want something else entirely. Obviously other counties have interests too. Vietnam? The Koreas? Thailand? Indonesia? All of them have something to prove. And only god knows what would happen in Africa.
    - dogma1138 11y ago
      Israel is probably fine negotiating with the Arab states on it's own. It has a peace treaty with Jordan and Egypt, and various levels of official and unofficial relations with the Gulf states. Iran is an issue, so is the Hezbollah controlled parts of Lebanon and Syria if Assad falls is also up for grabs but with all 3 the US can't mediate anyhow. And piggy backing on this there is very little prospect for actual war between Israel and the Arab states, neither Jordan nor Egypt would go to war, there is no scenario in which Israel will some how will find it self in war with either Saudi Arabia nor the other gulf states that for the most part do not have much military presence and even less force projection. So the only thing which is left is a proxy war between Israel and Iran, which isn't exactly something you can call bloody, excluding the "war of independence" Israel longest and bloodiest war was the 'Yom Kippur' war which lasted for 19 days. If Syria falls to ISIS and or Hezbollah decides to stir things up again you might see a limited engagement in the north of Israel, which might lead to the re-establishment of a security buffer like the one during Israel's invasion into Lebanon (albeit most likely without the (South)Lebanese Army being allied with Israel this time), but there is simply no scenario in which this can escalate into anything than a meaningless regional conflict that would barely impact the daily life in Israel not to mention the world. The middle east is a powder cake indeed but Israel has little to do with it, an all out war is considerably more likely to happen between SA and Iran than even between Iran and Israel not to mention between the "Arab States" and Israel. The Arab states simply has no reason, will or ability to start a war with Israel, and Israel is not going to start a war on it's own.
- Kpourdeilami 11y ago
  Kurds can be a potential ally as well
  - seivan 11y ago
    The communist Kurds who blame the US for all of their problems but still cry for air support? Or the Europan Kurds who are angry the US invaded iraq because their white Socialist overlords concvinced them it was bad even though it was beneficial for majority of the Kurds who didn't have the luxury of living in welfare states outside of Iraq. Point being Kurds aren't homogenous, you can't work with that. Though I suspect you mean KRG, that might work, still on the verge there.
- caf 11y ago
  ..and Turkey (NATO member), Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait...
- tomjen3 11y ago
  The US can get an alley in the middle east which respect freedom of religion, freedom of minorities, allows women to serve in its military, is pro-us and has oil any time it wants. All it has to do is recognize Kurdistan. Yes it would piss of the Turkish dictator, but so what?
snarfy 11y ago
Because they sell oil in US dollars.
- varjag 11y ago
  They sell it in the US dollars because everyone else sells everything in US dollars: yes, even Iran, Russia and North Korea. It's not a gesture of charity or good will on Saudi behalf.
  - option_greek 11y ago
    You wouldn't believe the amount of power a currency can wield on the world when used for international commerce.
    - varjag 11y ago
      Why, I totally would. I just maintain the position of U.S. dollar as international trade currency is largely due to its dependability and domestic market volume, rather than far reaching conspiracy of international bankers. Saudi have zero say here. If they break relations and declare jihad on America tomorrow, they will still sell their oil in U.S. dollars.
      - option_greek 11y ago
        I agree that dollar didn't become an international currency because the bankers had foreseen the advantages. Its largely an artifact of WW2 loan repayments and stability. But it would be naive to think that they haven't realized the advantage yet and are not actively trying to keep it that way. China is just now getting into this game but not making much headway. Even now some of the oil to India (from Iran especially) is being payed in rupees (albeit priced in dollars).
  - tiatia 11y ago
    Sadam sold in Euro. Did not end well for him. Iran just switched to Euro.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
gaur 11y ago
> Why is this gender apartheid regime our ally exactly? Christian fundamentalists in the US government secretly admire their boldness and wish that they too could openly oppress women, gays, etc.
- _yosefk 11y ago
  Erm... you mean anti-gay fundamentalists like Obama? (From the article: "The Obama administration has lobbied Congress to block the bill’s passage... the administration has supported Saudi Arabia on other fronts, including providing the country with targeting intelligence and logistical support for its war in Yemen.")
  - gaur 11y ago
    I did not claim that every SA supporter in the US government was a Christian fundamentalist.
    - _yosefk 11y ago
      Well, either the Obama administration is composed of puppets of anti-gay fundamentalists (puppets who lit the White House in rainbow colors upon the SCOTUS deciding that gay marriage bans were unconstitutional), or perhaps their relationship with Saudi Arabia is motivated by reasons other than supposedly shared religious fundamentalism, and in fact religious fundamentalism has nothing to do with this. (Incidentally, the majority of wars, adjusted by the number of victims, as well as the majority of repressive actions against citizens by their own states throughout the last century were initiated by people whom you could more accurately describe as anti-religious fundamentalists than religious fundamentalists. It could be that religious fundamentalism, bad as it is, is not necessarily the main theme in every bad event in history, but just one of the many variations on the main theme.)
      - gaur 11y ago
        Obama in 2008 said that gay marriage should be a states' rights issue, and that he personally believed marriage is between one man and one woman. The fact that he and his administration later supported gay marriage just shows that they're canny politicians.
3327 11y ago
I know many saudi's that I like but the kingdom or government (whatever you want to call it) has turned a blind eye to terrorism. Anyone who has done a little research on 9/11 will realize they did play a key role one way or another. The fact that they are threatening with such high stakes confirms the fear of what else may be discovered when looked into.
- pknerd 11y ago
  It's not about fear at all. It's all power game otherwise there are many conspiracy theories against US government's involvement as well
tome 11y ago
What do you mean by "ally", exactly? The US helps perpetuate the status quo in Saudi Arabia because the alternative is a descent into utter chaos in that country and its surroundings that would cause a catastrophe for worldwide energy supplies.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- themartorana 11y ago
  And yet there is so much resistance to moving to clean, renewable, domestically (even locally) available energy. Must have something to do with money.
- onetimePete 11y ago
  eh, you stood firmly with saudi arabia and the region descent into chaos was not much accelerated or hindered by that? I think saudi arabia as a ally just reflects the sympathy of a "autocratic"-democratic-voted-in-presidential model for its non-democratic equals. Also i think Iran is to similar as a culture to the us-evangelicals, to be ever "a reliable ally". Messianic (and thus innovative?!), having a drug problem and a "unwieldy" youth - and subtle racism. Nobody likes a mirror, when you are not in shape.
  - tome 11y ago
    > you stood firmly with saudi arabia and the region descent into chaos was not much accelerated or hindered by that? I didn't do anything, since I am neither a member of the US government nor even a US citizen. I hope it's clear that given the chaos ISIS is causing in a resource-poor country, if they were running rampant in Saudia Arabia the world would be in for a couple of orders of magnitude worse time.
ZenoArrow 11y ago
If you're interested, the documentary Bitter Lake goes into some of the history of the alliance between the US and Saudi Arabia, I would recommend seeing it if you'd like to know more about how the US managed to end up supporting Islamic fundamentalists: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_(film) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hdcji http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hdcji
threatofrain 11y ago
I think that you know that relations with another country are always multifactor decisions, more than the lopsided argument you gave.
ArkyBeagle 11y ago
Because we're the holders of the title of "Western friend" as started by the British before and around WWI. A short, but wrong, answer is "Because of T.E. Lawrence and journalism". It's a slog ( I didn't actually even finish it ) but there is always "A Peace to End All Peace" ( ISBN-13: 978-0805088090 . I grew up in oil business country, and one of my high school friends had a massive picture of his Dad shaking hands with, I think King Faisal in the living room.
abawany 11y ago
According to Robert Gates' book Duty, it seems that the Saudi government has strong relationships with folks in both political parties. This appears to ensure that they get the kid glove treatment regardless of what happens. Gates describes a scenario where he was talking to the then-King in ~2006 and how the latter expected the US to just send troops wherever the kingdom needed them with no consideration for US lives; Gates describes this conversation as unforgettable and one that left him seething.
- vithlani 11y ago
  Well.... from the King's point of view, he is right to have this expectation given that he is spending billions of dollars a year buying outdated arms and technology from the US, it's war machine and it's allies. There is an implicit quid pro quo in there, weather anybody likes it or not.
forgetsusername 11y ago
>now flood the world with cheap oil aimed at destroying the American high tech green energy industry. I'm not going to pretend to know the motivations of the Saudis, but if you held a resource which was seen as possibly becoming obsolete in the mid-term, would you not sell it for the prevailing price as soon as possible, rather than holding it until it became worthless? That's at least part of the issue they face.

by dukoid 11y ago

TheLogothete 11y ago

So the only ally of the US in the middle east left is Israel? That would be world war 3, for sure.

dukoid 11y ago
Why do the US need an ally in the middle east? Allies should share values.
- TheLogothete 11y ago
  It's a tad bit more complicated than that in real world.
- dukoid 11y ago
  @TheLogothete I agree. "It's complicated" doesn't really counter any of the arguments substantially though.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  So Israel and the US don't share values now?
  - Retric 11y ago
    It's on the low end, less than Japan more than Brazil. The real issue is they don't share strategic interests largely by being on the other side of the planet.
    - dogma1138 11y ago
      I think you are confusing values with interest. EDIT: You seem to edit that part in, well if the US some how manages to strip any interests in the near east then yes they do not have that many strategic interests (outside of trade, research and industry). However as far as values go the are more or less on the same page, the only difference it's considerably more easy to commit to your values when everyone around you plays by the same rules. That said the US is probably the worse as far as it comes to actually living by their values of most western nations.
      - Retric 11y ago
        US, is fairly balanced in terms of oil trade. We don't share borders with the area. Direct trade is relatively speaking minimal as US to Israel ~1% of total US trade. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_pa... We don't even ship stuff though the area. That said, our foreign policy really does not seem to reflect this. Values wise it's different cultures, languages, religious landscapes etc. Sure, nominally we are both liberal democracy's that value free markets. But, in practice things like immigration policy's demonstrate huge differences. PS: That said we do have close ties and are Israel's largest import and export partner.
    - TheLogothete 11y ago
      The US has interests in every square inch of the planet.
      - clavalle 11y ago
        Who doesn't? We all share this tiny oasis of life.
        onetimePete 11y ago
        to stay in the analogy - and some are gazelles and some are cheetahs?
- quanticle 11y ago
  Countries don't have values. Countries have interests. If the US had to wait until every country it dealt with lived up to the same level of democracy and civil rights that it reserves for its own citizens, we would have no allies outside of Europe.
  - Razengan 11y ago
    And Japan.
  - dukoid 11y ago
    The West certainly should help the ones that show the desire to improve. That's different from making the worst offenders the biggest allies though.
    - atmosx 11y ago
      > The West certainly should help the ones that show the desire to improve. That's different from making the worst offenders the biggest allies though. No shit. The ancient Athenians invented democracy but I believe the US has made exporting democracy all around the world a vocation. So many successes: Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Ukraine, Morocco. As a European I would like to ask to stop exporting democracy for at least a decade, the world needs a break, really.
      - clavalle 11y ago
        Oh, ok. We'll go ahead and save ourselves enough cash to cover the GDP of your country, then, and ramp down our military in your neck of the woods. You don't mind defending your own democracy from the likes of Vladamir Putin et. al. right? You missed a few countries on your list a bit closer to home.
        spdustin 11y ago
        Sarcasm doesn't help. I'm an American, born and raised, and I'm frankly sick and tired that the xenophobic nonsense that the more vocal of us seeks to propagate has influenced foreign opinion of all Americans. I cannot tell you how embarrassed I've been, when on foreign soil, finding myself correcting (or worse sometimes, agreeing with) their notions of what life in America is like, because life in America is different for all of us. Homogenous isn't a word that would even occur to me to describe "the American way of life". With that kind of sarcasm, you can hardly blame them. It's incendiary speech, and you do not speak for all Americans, so kindly stop using hateful and sarcastic language while sounding like you do speak for all of us. You're free to share your own brand of "'Merica" with whomever you please, but you do not speak on my behalf. Additionally, thinly veiled threats of violence, no matter how cloaked in sarcasm they may be, betray a lack of grace under pressure, and a deeper resentment than is unhealthy to be left ignored. And GP: you don't speak for all of the EU (or of Europe) either. I'm sure you meant the former because most of the rest of Europe's populace doesn't seem to give two shits about us because they have their own problems back at home.
dogma1138 11y ago
WW3 with whom?
- TheLogothete 11y ago
  A war between Israel and the Arab nations is unavoidable without the US mediating through 3rd parties (like SA). This would be an extremely large and bloody war by itself, but it will inevitably lead to hotspots in other parts of the world, like China claiming Taiwan, settling disputes India. India would want to settle disputes with Pakistan. Russia would want to claim back some part of Eastern Europe. Turkey would want something else entirely. Obviously other counties have interests too. Vietnam? The Koreas? Thailand? Indonesia? All of them have something to prove. And only god knows what would happen in Africa.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    Israel is probably fine negotiating with the Arab states on it's own. It has a peace treaty with Jordan and Egypt, and various levels of official and unofficial relations with the Gulf states. Iran is an issue, so is the Hezbollah controlled parts of Lebanon and Syria if Assad falls is also up for grabs but with all 3 the US can't mediate anyhow. And piggy backing on this there is very little prospect for actual war between Israel and the Arab states, neither Jordan nor Egypt would go to war, there is no scenario in which Israel will some how will find it self in war with either Saudi Arabia nor the other gulf states that for the most part do not have much military presence and even less force projection. So the only thing which is left is a proxy war between Israel and Iran, which isn't exactly something you can call bloody, excluding the "war of independence" Israel longest and bloodiest war was the 'Yom Kippur' war which lasted for 19 days. If Syria falls to ISIS and or Hezbollah decides to stir things up again you might see a limited engagement in the north of Israel, which might lead to the re-establishment of a security buffer like the one during Israel's invasion into Lebanon (albeit most likely without the (South)Lebanese Army being allied with Israel this time), but there is simply no scenario in which this can escalate into anything than a meaningless regional conflict that would barely impact the daily life in Israel not to mention the world. The middle east is a powder cake indeed but Israel has little to do with it, an all out war is considerably more likely to happen between SA and Iran than even between Iran and Israel not to mention between the "Arab States" and Israel. The Arab states simply has no reason, will or ability to start a war with Israel, and Israel is not going to start a war on it's own.
Kpourdeilami 11y ago
Kurds can be a potential ally as well
- seivan 11y ago
  The communist Kurds who blame the US for all of their problems but still cry for air support? Or the Europan Kurds who are angry the US invaded iraq because their white Socialist overlords concvinced them it was bad even though it was beneficial for majority of the Kurds who didn't have the luxury of living in welfare states outside of Iraq. Point being Kurds aren't homogenous, you can't work with that. Though I suspect you mean KRG, that might work, still on the verge there.
caf 11y ago
..and Turkey (NATO member), Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait...
tomjen3 11y ago
The US can get an alley in the middle east which respect freedom of religion, freedom of minorities, allows women to serve in its military, is pro-us and has oil any time it wants. All it has to do is recognize Kurdistan. Yes it would piss of the Turkish dictator, but so what?

snarfy 11y ago

Because they sell oil in US dollars.

varjag 11y ago
They sell it in the US dollars because everyone else sells everything in US dollars: yes, even Iran, Russia and North Korea. It's not a gesture of charity or good will on Saudi behalf.
- option_greek 11y ago
  You wouldn't believe the amount of power a currency can wield on the world when used for international commerce.
  - varjag 11y ago
    Why, I totally would. I just maintain the position of U.S. dollar as international trade currency is largely due to its dependability and domestic market volume, rather than far reaching conspiracy of international bankers. Saudi have zero say here. If they break relations and declare jihad on America tomorrow, they will still sell their oil in U.S. dollars.
    - option_greek 11y ago
      I agree that dollar didn't become an international currency because the bankers had foreseen the advantages. Its largely an artifact of WW2 loan repayments and stability. But it would be naive to think that they haven't realized the advantage yet and are not actively trying to keep it that way. China is just now getting into this game but not making much headway. Even now some of the oil to India (from Iran especially) is being payed in rupees (albeit priced in dollars).
- tiatia 11y ago
  Sadam sold in Euro. Did not end well for him. Iran just switched to Euro.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

gaur 11y ago

> Why is this gender apartheid regime our ally exactly? Christian fundamentalists in the US government secretly admire their boldness and wish that they too could openly oppress women, gays, etc.

_yosefk 11y ago
Erm... you mean anti-gay fundamentalists like Obama? (From the article: "The Obama administration has lobbied Congress to block the bill’s passage... the administration has supported Saudi Arabia on other fronts, including providing the country with targeting intelligence and logistical support for its war in Yemen.")
- gaur 11y ago
  I did not claim that every SA supporter in the US government was a Christian fundamentalist.
  - _yosefk 11y ago
    Well, either the Obama administration is composed of puppets of anti-gay fundamentalists (puppets who lit the White House in rainbow colors upon the SCOTUS deciding that gay marriage bans were unconstitutional), or perhaps their relationship with Saudi Arabia is motivated by reasons other than supposedly shared religious fundamentalism, and in fact religious fundamentalism has nothing to do with this. (Incidentally, the majority of wars, adjusted by the number of victims, as well as the majority of repressive actions against citizens by their own states throughout the last century were initiated by people whom you could more accurately describe as anti-religious fundamentalists than religious fundamentalists. It could be that religious fundamentalism, bad as it is, is not necessarily the main theme in every bad event in history, but just one of the many variations on the main theme.)
    - gaur 11y ago
      Obama in 2008 said that gay marriage should be a states' rights issue, and that he personally believed marriage is between one man and one woman. The fact that he and his administration later supported gay marriage just shows that they're canny politicians.

3327 11y ago

I know many saudi's that I like but the kingdom or government (whatever you want to call it) has turned a blind eye to terrorism. Anyone who has done a little research on 9/11 will realize they did play a key role one way or another. The fact that they are threatening with such high stakes confirms the fear of what else may be discovered when looked into.

pknerd 11y ago
It's not about fear at all. It's all power game otherwise there are many conspiracy theories against US government's involvement as well

tome 11y ago

What do you mean by "ally", exactly? The US helps perpetuate the status quo in Saudi Arabia because the alternative is a descent into utter chaos in that country and its surroundings that would cause a catastrophe for worldwide energy supplies.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
themartorana 11y ago
And yet there is so much resistance to moving to clean, renewable, domestically (even locally) available energy. Must have something to do with money.
onetimePete 11y ago
eh, you stood firmly with saudi arabia and the region descent into chaos was not much accelerated or hindered by that? I think saudi arabia as a ally just reflects the sympathy of a "autocratic"-democratic-voted-in-presidential model for its non-democratic equals. Also i think Iran is to similar as a culture to the us-evangelicals, to be ever "a reliable ally". Messianic (and thus innovative?!), having a drug problem and a "unwieldy" youth - and subtle racism. Nobody likes a mirror, when you are not in shape.
- tome 11y ago
  > you stood firmly with saudi arabia and the region descent into chaos was not much accelerated or hindered by that? I didn't do anything, since I am neither a member of the US government nor even a US citizen. I hope it's clear that given the chaos ISIS is causing in a resource-poor country, if they were running rampant in Saudia Arabia the world would be in for a couple of orders of magnitude worse time.

ZenoArrow 11y ago

If you're interested, the documentary Bitter Lake goes into some of the history of the alliance between the US and Saudi Arabia, I would recommend seeing it if you'd like to know more about how the US managed to end up supporting Islamic fundamentalists: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_(film) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hdcji http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hdcji

threatofrain 11y ago

I think that you know that relations with another country are always multifactor decisions, more than the lopsided argument you gave.

ArkyBeagle 11y ago

Because we're the holders of the title of "Western friend" as started by the British before and around WWI. A short, but wrong, answer is "Because of T.E. Lawrence and journalism". It's a slog ( I didn't actually even finish it ) but there is always "A Peace to End All Peace" ( ISBN-13: 978-0805088090 . I grew up in oil business country, and one of my high school friends had a massive picture of his Dad shaking hands with, I think King Faisal in the living room.

abawany 11y ago

According to Robert Gates' book Duty, it seems that the Saudi government has strong relationships with folks in both political parties. This appears to ensure that they get the kid glove treatment regardless of what happens. Gates describes a scenario where he was talking to the then-King in ~2006 and how the latter expected the US to just send troops wherever the kingdom needed them with no consideration for US lives; Gates describes this conversation as unforgettable and one that left him seething.

vithlani 11y ago
Well.... from the King's point of view, he is right to have this expectation given that he is spending billions of dollars a year buying outdated arms and technology from the US, it's war machine and it's allies. There is an implicit quid pro quo in there, weather anybody likes it or not.

forgetsusername 11y ago

>now flood the world with cheap oil aimed at destroying the American high tech green energy industry. I'm not going to pretend to know the motivations of the Saudis, but if you held a resource which was seen as possibly becoming obsolete in the mid-term, would you not sell it for the prevailing price as soon as possible, rather than holding it until it became worthless? That's at least part of the issue they face.