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Commenting on this post while I'm at a coffee shop myself. If I had to pick one city for having the best coffee shops, it would probably be Tel Aviv. The coffe

by dkopi 10y ago

Commenting on this post while I'm at a coffee shop myself. If I had to pick one city for having the best coffee shops, it would probably be Tel Aviv. The coffee is great, all coffee shops are laptop friendly (and gladly provide you with the wifi password), and people are very open to social interaction with strangers. At any given moment you'll find a designer working on a logo, an architecture student reading a post blasting gentrification, entrepreneurs discussing their new startup, or freelancers looking for a break from working at home. Tel Aviv coffee shops are also very dog friendly, and that's always a great conversation starter. I often find that "could you watch my laptop while i go to the bathroom?" followed by "hey, what are you working on?" is usually the best way to get to know new people. I even find that I'm a lot more productive when I work at a coffee shop instead of an office. A coffee shop provides with just enough distraction and people watching when you need to take a break, but not enough that you completely lose concentration and focus.

tim333 10y ago
What do you think of Tel Aviv as a place to hang out working on a startup compared to SF? I'm a brit thinking of a change of scene.
- lmm 10y ago
  The great advantage of SF is its astonishingly consistent climate. I can't speak to Tel Aviv at all, but I'd say make sure you're comfortable working at typical temperatures there - I think that's a key (and unnoticed) part of productivity.
  - dkopi 10y ago
    Tel Aviv's weather is very comfortable. Hasn't snowed in tel aviv since 1951. Summers can get hot and humid, but air conditioners are the norm, and dress code is shorts and flip flops. And Tel Aviv has an awesome beach you can actually swim in. To quote wikipedia: Tel Aviv experiences a Mediterranean climate with hot summers and generally mild, wet winters. The average annual temperature is 20.2 °C (68.4 °F). Average temperature of the sea is 18–20 °C (64–68 °F) during the winter, and 24–29 °C (75–84 °F) during the summer. In January, the coldest month, the average high temperature is 18.3 °C (64.9 °F), the low temperature averages 11.1 °C (52.0 °F) and the average sea temperature is 19 °C (66 °F). August, the warmest month, averages a high of 30 °C (86 °F), and a low of 22 °C (72 °F), with the average sea temperature being 30 °C (86 °F). Generally, the summer season lasts about six months, from May to October. Three months – March, April and November – are transitional, while December, January and February are the coldest months. The city receives 528 millimeters (20.8 in) of precipitation annually, which mostly occurs in the months of October through May. Summers are generally dry, and the area experiences over 300 sunny days per year. SF has a lot of advantages over Tel Aviv (Being closer to Bay area VCs, being closer to the US market and customers, time zone differences) - but I'm not sure weather is one of them. Tel Aviv has a vibrant startup scene and lots of tech talent. Also - a lot of american expats. It's really easy to get by speaking only English and a few basic Hebrew words.
    - ido 10y ago
      As a native to (greater) Tel Aviv now living in Berlin, I much prefer Oceanic weather. ~9 months of the year you'd be sweating if you go outside & do even the slightest physical activity, like leisurely walking or cycling (mostly due to the high humidity, it's not actually that hot most of the time). Berlin is too cold for about 3-4 months per year but the rest of the time is pleasantly cool, like San Francisco or London: bad bathing weather, but good working weather. Other problems of Tel Aviv: poor transit, the resulting bad traffic, air pollution (it doesn't rain often and occasionally gets sand storms in the summer), noise pollution. Costs are not as prohibitive as London, NYC, or SF but significantly higher than Berlin. I guess if you enjoy LA, Tel Aviv might be for you?
      - dkopi 10y ago
        As far as transit goes - if you live and work in Tel Aviv, you can pretty much walk wherever you need. True, Berlin is cheaper than Tel Aviv, but it's also cheaper than most other German cities. Wages are also lower in Berlin. Drink an Augustiner Dunkel for me :)
        ido 10y ago
        Isn't that a Bavarian brewery? I'll drink a Berliner Kindl though ;)
        dkopi 10y ago
        It is :) but they have an awesome beer hall at Gendarmenmarkt.
        ido 10y ago
        As far as transit goes - if you live and work in Tel Aviv, you can pretty much walk wherever you need. This is a big if, as few Israelis can afford to live in Tel Aviv (we couldn't, despite earning significantly above median). The average gross wage in Israel is 9,702.60 ils per month [1] (2277.78 Euro). According to a quick check [2] this gives a net of 8,302.57 ils per month (1948.94 Euro). A small apartment in good repair in a not-terrible part of Tel Aviv can easily cost ~6000 ils per month, before utilities. Realistically if you work in Tel Aviv you either live in the suburbs, are in the top ~10% of wage earners, or are young and don't have a family to support (and live with roommates). [1] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/israel/wages http://www.tradingeconomics.com/israel/wages [2] http://www.payway.co.il/calculator/en/bn3_form.asp http://www.payway.co.il/calculator/en/bn3_form.asp
- ido 10y ago
  How much do you need to be around other startup people? Mediterranean EU cities will generally be easier and mostly cheaper to stay at.
abledon 10y ago
When I'm in a coffee shop sometimes the people watching me as I code in a somewhat frenzied manner, kinda weirds me out. Do you find it easy to block out the peripheral perception that 3-4 people are just staring at you from across the room?
- dkopi 10y ago
  It's just that. a perception. Everyone's a bit self aware, but the truth is that people around us are also very self aware. People will look at you every once in a while, but they're looking at everyone else as well. People watching is fun, and a main reason people go to coffee shops. If you ever do catch someone staring at you, just give them a friendly smile. They might even be waiting for a signal that it's okay to come over and ask what it is you're working on, because you seem very passionate about it.
  - marklyon 10y ago
    The friendly smile is key. I was working on a project at an airport - I had something like a six hour layover and set up at a nice table near the food court - I noticed I was being watched and smiled back. The kid came over to me and asked what I was doing. Seems he'd learned some HTML and JavaScript, but was being told in school that "real" programming was super-hard and not for him. We ended up spending about an hour talking about studying CS, how he could learn programming on his own and I eventually sent him away to catch his flight with my copy of the Rat-cover Python book. He stayed in touch. Today, he's living his dream working on a rather awesome-sounding project.
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  I've done coding and other laptop work in coffee shops many times, and I'm usually acutely aware of my surroundings and people around me. I've never noticed anyone staring at me in a coffee shop. Are you doing something unusual to bring this attention on yourself? Or do you live in a place with jerks? Also, what ethnicity were the people staring at you? Some cultures (like Indian) don't have the cultural aversion to staring that westerners do (though usually ones who come over here figure that out pretty quickly and stop it).
cylinder 10y ago
Laptops are the opposite of what I want to see in cafes, actually I prefer that they have an outright ban
- Raphmedia 10y ago
  Not everyone has internet at home.
- ASlave2Gravity 10y ago
  Why's that?
- dvanduzer 10y ago
  Laptops are a fantastic way for more introverted people to meet each other. Why do you think it's all the rage to paper your Macbook like a NASCAR driver's jacket? Sure, part of it is just the pure hustle of startups, and the low cost of logo stickers as marketing. To a potential startup founders a few years out of college, the coffee shop full of laptops is going to feel just like the library during study week. (Maybe someone a lot younger than I am would say the college libraries just feel like coffee shops these days. Get off my lawn.) Have you ever sipped a latte with your headphones on and caught someone's eye as they concentrated as intensely as you're trying to? Then did you notice the GitHub sticker and smile to yourself? Then did you notice the <STARTUP NAME HERE> sticker and know you would really have something to say to them? (Assuming you work up the courage, dang, they're gorgeous.) If you don't want to spend time alone with strangers in quiet reflection, get your frappucino to go, and find a different social club, eh?
  - geebee 10y ago
    I have no problem with laptop cafes, I bring mine to cafes to work all the time. I really enjoy it. But I also see merit in cafes that establish a no cell, no laptop rule (sometimes just for certain hours of the day). That would be a draw for me (honestly, the no cell phone policy tends to be more of a draw than a no laptop policy). To me, this is very much a one size doesn't fit all situation. It makes no sense to get into a huff when people are on their laptops in a cafe that permits this. That said, remarkably, some people get strangely enraged when one cafe or bar out of twenty (or hundred) establishes a no cell phone policy. Like, they aren't satisfied that they can have their way in 95% of coffee shops and bars, it has to be this specific one, right now (these folks, interestingly, often think the matter can be cleared up by simply reminding everyone which country we live in).
samtp 10y ago
Admittedly I've never been to Israel, but I'd argue that Ho Chi Minh City (and Vietnam in general) has by far the best cafe culture of any city in the world. Vietnam is the 2nd leading coffee producer in the world, and the past French colonial rule has deeply ingrained coffee (as well as baguettes) in the Viet culture. HCMC has more cafes than any other city in the world, basically 2-3 cafes per block. While most cafes are quite simple, there are hundreds that are just as hip and modern (if not more so) as anything that you'd find in the western world. You also get unique types of cafes such as garden cafes with huge trees and waterfalls and pet cafes with fuzzy cats/exotic birds lounging about. Many open 24 hours as well. Best part about it is from ordering a single coffee (for about $1), you get free tea refills all day. No one ever pressures you to leave and everywhere has very good quality, free wifi. This link is pretty out of date (and mostly focuses on city center) [0] but shows some of the places available. You can also use Google translate on Vietnam's version of Yelp and click on some of the cafe collections to get a more thorough idea. [1] [0] http://www.nomadicnotes.com/travel-blog/ho-chi-minh-city-cafes/ http://www.nomadicnotes.com/travel-blog/ho-chi-minh-city-caf... [1] http://www.foody.vn/ho-chi-minh/bo-suu-tap http://www.foody.vn/ho-chi-minh/bo-suu-tap
- dkopi 10y ago
  I love Saigon. Nomadlist has a nice guide too: https://nomadlist.com/digital-nomad-guide-to-ho-chi-minh-city https://nomadlist.com/digital-nomad-guide-to-ho-chi-minh-cit...
  - samtp 10y ago
    On the same subject, Jon Myers wrote a great blog post a number of years ago about living and working in Saigon that opened up many remote worker's eyes to the city: https://medium.com/digital-nomad-stories/bootstrapping-in-saigon-fc9744367386 https://medium.com/digital-nomad-stories/bootstrapping-in-sa... And because I'm getting nostalgic, here's a great post on the incredible food there: http://www.legalnomads.com/2014/06/saigon-street-food.html http://www.legalnomads.com/2014/06/saigon-street-food.html
matwood 10y ago
> A coffee shop provides with just enough distraction and people watching when you need to take a break, but not enough that you completely lose concentration and focus. This right here is why I get so much done in coffee shops. It's almost like white noise that keeps you focused without day dreaming. When I lived in Denver I was 100% remote worker and would work every afternoon in one of three coffee shops. One shop was a chain, but they were very friendly and eventually I knew all the people who worked there. The other 2 were local. One of them was owned and run by this guy who literally loved coffee. He would talk about new beans he got that 'spoke' to him. His coffee is still some of the best I ever had. He also just let me run a tab and I would pay him every month. The final place was more of a cafe. It was large, and would sometimes have live music starting in the late afternoon. It also had a lot of people who worked from there that I got to know. I asked the owner once if hanging out there all day bothered her and she said if people bought something once every hour or two she was coming out ahead. So I made sure to do that anytime I was there. I miss working in random places, since they really led me to focus for some reason.
- cafard 10y ago
  Do you mind telling a long-ago Coloradan the neighborhoods? Forty years ago I used to go to Muddy Waters of the Platte, which was 15th St. across the Platte & train yards from downtown. Apart from that, I remember one around Larimer & Speer, but not much else.
  - matwood 10y ago
    None of them were downtown. One was in Parker and the other 2 were in Aurora. Aurora is so big that there are very nice parts and very not so nice parts. 40 years ago, I'm guessing both of the places were still just plains. Now they are Denver suburbs. I liked being a 1/2 hour from the city and also so close to the wilderness. Probably one of the favorite places ever to live. If Denver had an ocean it would be my version of best place to live on earth.
    - cafard 10y ago
      Forty years ago, Parker was a fairly small town, and you were clearly out in the country for a while before you got there. Aurora was a well-populated suburb then, but as I recall it ended around Tamarack (?); anyway, there wasn't much if any of Aurora east of a line running N-S from the east end of Stapleton Airport.
ben_jones 10y ago
So what you're saying is Tel Aviv coffee shops are ideal for tech workers? Got to remember most of the world could care less about the logo designer, the architect, the programmer, etc. It worries me that tech is becoming a social club where you're either in it it completely or out of it. What's it like to be a low-wage blue collar worker in SF outside of the tech industry? This post would make it seems like they have nothing to talk about.
- dkopi 10y ago
  Actually, no. Tel Aviv Coffee shops are ideal for tech workers. And being in tech and commenting on hacker news, I obviously state that first of all. But Tel Aviv coffee shops are packed with people of all types and shapes. Whether it's a social worker unwinding after a long week at work, a photographer who can't afford an office, so he meets the engaged couple to discuss terms at a coffee shop, or the Tel Aviv University student with her low-wage blue collar immigrant parents who came to visit her in the city over the weekend. I can understand and relate to the fear of tech becoming "a social club". But that's much more of an American thing. Being a warm Mediterranean country in the middle of the Levant, Israelis don't like "closed social clubs". They have much more of a "Melting pot" mentality.
  - ben_jones 10y ago
    Yeah I apologize I used your comment to address some slightly unrelated misgivings I have. The modern coffee shop just happened to remind me of it.
cardine 10y ago
How do you all stay productive with laptops? I can't imagine doing any actual coding work unless I have two monitors and a work station.
- mixedCase 10y ago
  In my case using tiling window managers and 10 workspaces makes working on a laptop tolerable enough. That said, I do have to bring my own keyboard. For those people who tolerate (or even like) chiclet keys, they could very well find it optimal to work on the go.
simonebrunozzi 10y ago
I tend to agree with you. I haven't been to Tel Aviv in a while... could you recommend 2-3 places that are worth checking out? I will be back there for a week in September.

by dkopi 10y ago

tim333 10y ago

What do you think of Tel Aviv as a place to hang out working on a startup compared to SF? I'm a brit thinking of a change of scene.

lmm 10y ago
The great advantage of SF is its astonishingly consistent climate. I can't speak to Tel Aviv at all, but I'd say make sure you're comfortable working at typical temperatures there - I think that's a key (and unnoticed) part of productivity.
- dkopi 10y ago
  Tel Aviv's weather is very comfortable. Hasn't snowed in tel aviv since 1951. Summers can get hot and humid, but air conditioners are the norm, and dress code is shorts and flip flops. And Tel Aviv has an awesome beach you can actually swim in. To quote wikipedia: Tel Aviv experiences a Mediterranean climate with hot summers and generally mild, wet winters. The average annual temperature is 20.2 °C (68.4 °F). Average temperature of the sea is 18–20 °C (64–68 °F) during the winter, and 24–29 °C (75–84 °F) during the summer. In January, the coldest month, the average high temperature is 18.3 °C (64.9 °F), the low temperature averages 11.1 °C (52.0 °F) and the average sea temperature is 19 °C (66 °F). August, the warmest month, averages a high of 30 °C (86 °F), and a low of 22 °C (72 °F), with the average sea temperature being 30 °C (86 °F). Generally, the summer season lasts about six months, from May to October. Three months – March, April and November – are transitional, while December, January and February are the coldest months. The city receives 528 millimeters (20.8 in) of precipitation annually, which mostly occurs in the months of October through May. Summers are generally dry, and the area experiences over 300 sunny days per year. SF has a lot of advantages over Tel Aviv (Being closer to Bay area VCs, being closer to the US market and customers, time zone differences) - but I'm not sure weather is one of them. Tel Aviv has a vibrant startup scene and lots of tech talent. Also - a lot of american expats. It's really easy to get by speaking only English and a few basic Hebrew words.
  - ido 10y ago
    As a native to (greater) Tel Aviv now living in Berlin, I much prefer Oceanic weather. ~9 months of the year you'd be sweating if you go outside & do even the slightest physical activity, like leisurely walking or cycling (mostly due to the high humidity, it's not actually that hot most of the time). Berlin is too cold for about 3-4 months per year but the rest of the time is pleasantly cool, like San Francisco or London: bad bathing weather, but good working weather. Other problems of Tel Aviv: poor transit, the resulting bad traffic, air pollution (it doesn't rain often and occasionally gets sand storms in the summer), noise pollution. Costs are not as prohibitive as London, NYC, or SF but significantly higher than Berlin. I guess if you enjoy LA, Tel Aviv might be for you?
    - dkopi 10y ago
      As far as transit goes - if you live and work in Tel Aviv, you can pretty much walk wherever you need. True, Berlin is cheaper than Tel Aviv, but it's also cheaper than most other German cities. Wages are also lower in Berlin. Drink an Augustiner Dunkel for me :)
      - ido 10y ago
        Isn't that a Bavarian brewery? I'll drink a Berliner Kindl though ;)
      - dkopi 10y ago
        It is :) but they have an awesome beer hall at Gendarmenmarkt.
      - ido 10y ago
        As far as transit goes - if you live and work in Tel Aviv, you can pretty much walk wherever you need. This is a big if, as few Israelis can afford to live in Tel Aviv (we couldn't, despite earning significantly above median). The average gross wage in Israel is 9,702.60 ils per month [1] (2277.78 Euro). According to a quick check [2] this gives a net of 8,302.57 ils per month (1948.94 Euro). A small apartment in good repair in a not-terrible part of Tel Aviv can easily cost ~6000 ils per month, before utilities. Realistically if you work in Tel Aviv you either live in the suburbs, are in the top ~10% of wage earners, or are young and don't have a family to support (and live with roommates). [1] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/israel/wages http://www.tradingeconomics.com/israel/wages [2] http://www.payway.co.il/calculator/en/bn3_form.asp http://www.payway.co.il/calculator/en/bn3_form.asp
ido 10y ago
How much do you need to be around other startup people? Mediterranean EU cities will generally be easier and mostly cheaper to stay at.

abledon 10y ago

When I'm in a coffee shop sometimes the people watching me as I code in a somewhat frenzied manner, kinda weirds me out. Do you find it easy to block out the peripheral perception that 3-4 people are just staring at you from across the room?

dkopi 10y ago
It's just that. a perception. Everyone's a bit self aware, but the truth is that people around us are also very self aware. People will look at you every once in a while, but they're looking at everyone else as well. People watching is fun, and a main reason people go to coffee shops. If you ever do catch someone staring at you, just give them a friendly smile. They might even be waiting for a signal that it's okay to come over and ask what it is you're working on, because you seem very passionate about it.
- marklyon 10y ago
  The friendly smile is key. I was working on a project at an airport - I had something like a six hour layover and set up at a nice table near the food court - I noticed I was being watched and smiled back. The kid came over to me and asked what I was doing. Seems he'd learned some HTML and JavaScript, but was being told in school that "real" programming was super-hard and not for him. We ended up spending about an hour talking about studying CS, how he could learn programming on his own and I eventually sent him away to catch his flight with my copy of the Rat-cover Python book. He stayed in touch. Today, he's living his dream working on a rather awesome-sounding project.
Grishnakh 10y ago
I've done coding and other laptop work in coffee shops many times, and I'm usually acutely aware of my surroundings and people around me. I've never noticed anyone staring at me in a coffee shop. Are you doing something unusual to bring this attention on yourself? Or do you live in a place with jerks? Also, what ethnicity were the people staring at you? Some cultures (like Indian) don't have the cultural aversion to staring that westerners do (though usually ones who come over here figure that out pretty quickly and stop it).

cylinder 10y ago

Laptops are the opposite of what I want to see in cafes, actually I prefer that they have an outright ban

Raphmedia 10y ago
Not everyone has internet at home.
ASlave2Gravity 10y ago
Why's that?
dvanduzer 10y ago
Laptops are a fantastic way for more introverted people to meet each other. Why do you think it's all the rage to paper your Macbook like a NASCAR driver's jacket? Sure, part of it is just the pure hustle of startups, and the low cost of logo stickers as marketing. To a potential startup founders a few years out of college, the coffee shop full of laptops is going to feel just like the library during study week. (Maybe someone a lot younger than I am would say the college libraries just feel like coffee shops these days. Get off my lawn.) Have you ever sipped a latte with your headphones on and caught someone's eye as they concentrated as intensely as you're trying to? Then did you notice the GitHub sticker and smile to yourself? Then did you notice the <STARTUP NAME HERE> sticker and know you would really have something to say to them? (Assuming you work up the courage, dang, they're gorgeous.) If you don't want to spend time alone with strangers in quiet reflection, get your frappucino to go, and find a different social club, eh?
- geebee 10y ago
  I have no problem with laptop cafes, I bring mine to cafes to work all the time. I really enjoy it. But I also see merit in cafes that establish a no cell, no laptop rule (sometimes just for certain hours of the day). That would be a draw for me (honestly, the no cell phone policy tends to be more of a draw than a no laptop policy). To me, this is very much a one size doesn't fit all situation. It makes no sense to get into a huff when people are on their laptops in a cafe that permits this. That said, remarkably, some people get strangely enraged when one cafe or bar out of twenty (or hundred) establishes a no cell phone policy. Like, they aren't satisfied that they can have their way in 95% of coffee shops and bars, it has to be this specific one, right now (these folks, interestingly, often think the matter can be cleared up by simply reminding everyone which country we live in).

samtp 10y ago

Admittedly I've never been to Israel, but I'd argue that Ho Chi Minh City (and Vietnam in general) has by far the best cafe culture of any city in the world. Vietnam is the 2nd leading coffee producer in the world, and the past French colonial rule has deeply ingrained coffee (as well as baguettes) in the Viet culture. HCMC has more cafes than any other city in the world, basically 2-3 cafes per block. While most cafes are quite simple, there are hundreds that are just as hip and modern (if not more so) as anything that you'd find in the western world. You also get unique types of cafes such as garden cafes with huge trees and waterfalls and pet cafes with fuzzy cats/exotic birds lounging about. Many open 24 hours as well. Best part about it is from ordering a single coffee (for about $1), you get free tea refills all day. No one ever pressures you to leave and everywhere has very good quality, free wifi. This link is pretty out of date (and mostly focuses on city center) [0] but shows some of the places available. You can also use Google translate on Vietnam's version of Yelp and click on some of the cafe collections to get a more thorough idea. [1] [0] http://www.nomadicnotes.com/travel-blog/ho-chi-minh-city-cafes/ http://www.nomadicnotes.com/travel-blog/ho-chi-minh-city-caf... [1] http://www.foody.vn/ho-chi-minh/bo-suu-tap http://www.foody.vn/ho-chi-minh/bo-suu-tap

dkopi 10y ago
I love Saigon. Nomadlist has a nice guide too: https://nomadlist.com/digital-nomad-guide-to-ho-chi-minh-city https://nomadlist.com/digital-nomad-guide-to-ho-chi-minh-cit...
- samtp 10y ago
  On the same subject, Jon Myers wrote a great blog post a number of years ago about living and working in Saigon that opened up many remote worker's eyes to the city: https://medium.com/digital-nomad-stories/bootstrapping-in-saigon-fc9744367386 https://medium.com/digital-nomad-stories/bootstrapping-in-sa... And because I'm getting nostalgic, here's a great post on the incredible food there: http://www.legalnomads.com/2014/06/saigon-street-food.html http://www.legalnomads.com/2014/06/saigon-street-food.html

matwood 10y ago

> A coffee shop provides with just enough distraction and people watching when you need to take a break, but not enough that you completely lose concentration and focus. This right here is why I get so much done in coffee shops. It's almost like white noise that keeps you focused without day dreaming. When I lived in Denver I was 100% remote worker and would work every afternoon in one of three coffee shops. One shop was a chain, but they were very friendly and eventually I knew all the people who worked there. The other 2 were local. One of them was owned and run by this guy who literally loved coffee. He would talk about new beans he got that 'spoke' to him. His coffee is still some of the best I ever had. He also just let me run a tab and I would pay him every month. The final place was more of a cafe. It was large, and would sometimes have live music starting in the late afternoon. It also had a lot of people who worked from there that I got to know. I asked the owner once if hanging out there all day bothered her and she said if people bought something once every hour or two she was coming out ahead. So I made sure to do that anytime I was there. I miss working in random places, since they really led me to focus for some reason.

cafard 10y ago
Do you mind telling a long-ago Coloradan the neighborhoods? Forty years ago I used to go to Muddy Waters of the Platte, which was 15th St. across the Platte & train yards from downtown. Apart from that, I remember one around Larimer & Speer, but not much else.
- matwood 10y ago
  None of them were downtown. One was in Parker and the other 2 were in Aurora. Aurora is so big that there are very nice parts and very not so nice parts. 40 years ago, I'm guessing both of the places were still just plains. Now they are Denver suburbs. I liked being a 1/2 hour from the city and also so close to the wilderness. Probably one of the favorite places ever to live. If Denver had an ocean it would be my version of best place to live on earth.
  - cafard 10y ago
    Forty years ago, Parker was a fairly small town, and you were clearly out in the country for a while before you got there. Aurora was a well-populated suburb then, but as I recall it ended around Tamarack (?); anyway, there wasn't much if any of Aurora east of a line running N-S from the east end of Stapleton Airport.

ben_jones 10y ago

So what you're saying is Tel Aviv coffee shops are ideal for tech workers? Got to remember most of the world could care less about the logo designer, the architect, the programmer, etc. It worries me that tech is becoming a social club where you're either in it it completely or out of it. What's it like to be a low-wage blue collar worker in SF outside of the tech industry? This post would make it seems like they have nothing to talk about.

dkopi 10y ago
Actually, no. Tel Aviv Coffee shops are ideal for tech workers. And being in tech and commenting on hacker news, I obviously state that first of all. But Tel Aviv coffee shops are packed with people of all types and shapes. Whether it's a social worker unwinding after a long week at work, a photographer who can't afford an office, so he meets the engaged couple to discuss terms at a coffee shop, or the Tel Aviv University student with her low-wage blue collar immigrant parents who came to visit her in the city over the weekend. I can understand and relate to the fear of tech becoming "a social club". But that's much more of an American thing. Being a warm Mediterranean country in the middle of the Levant, Israelis don't like "closed social clubs". They have much more of a "Melting pot" mentality.
- ben_jones 10y ago
  Yeah I apologize I used your comment to address some slightly unrelated misgivings I have. The modern coffee shop just happened to remind me of it.

cardine 10y ago

How do you all stay productive with laptops? I can't imagine doing any actual coding work unless I have two monitors and a work station.

mixedCase 10y ago
In my case using tiling window managers and 10 workspaces makes working on a laptop tolerable enough. That said, I do have to bring my own keyboard. For those people who tolerate (or even like) chiclet keys, they could very well find it optimal to work on the go.

simonebrunozzi 10y ago

I tend to agree with you. I haven't been to Tel Aviv in a while... could you recommend 2-3 places that are worth checking out? I will be back there for a week in September.