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VSCode knockouts Atom in a dispute for becoming a developer editor in a corporate computer. Sure, you all have root password in your computer. Unfortunately, I
by neves 11y ago
VSCode knockouts Atom in a dispute for becoming a developer editor in a corporate computer.
Sure, you all have root password in your computer. Unfortunately, I belong to a lower race: the corporate developer. I work in a Windows 7 machine, don't have root password and there's a big wall called proxy around me.
I didn't know about VSCode before this HN post, but I was trying to use a new editor instead of Notepad++. In my 5 minutes comparison match between Atom and VSCode, Atom was knocked out in the first minute. To quickly test a new general code editor I just want 3 "simple" things: column selection, regexp search and replace, and a python mode.
Atom: got the regex, must install a column mode extension, need to install a ntlm proxy authentication downloaded from (argh!) Sourceforge, configured it after some google searches, failed to install the extension because it needs a compiler. Ops, just spent 30 min for my 5 min test. Can't spend more time playing with a code editor, must go back to work.
VSCode: Download the portable version https://code.visualstudio.com/docs?dv=winzip https://code.visualstudio.com/docs?dv=winzip and unpack it. Just works.
You've got a new fan VSCode!
- dubdubbub 11y ago> Atom was knocked out in the first minute. 'knocked out'? > must install a column mode extension, need to install a ntlm proxy authentication downloaded from (argh!) Sourceforge Why not just set up atom to use your existing corporate proxy? > failed to install the extension because it needs a compiler Sounds like bullshit, what extension? > You've got a new fan VSCode! So all of your complaints about atom are actually complaints about your own inability to set it up.
- wlesieutre 11y agoGoogled part of this for you: >Why not just set up atom to use your existing corporate proxy? "Many of these text editors support proxy servers, but none of them that I have tried support NTLM for authentication and if your corporate proxy is using NTLM they simply cannot connect to it. Or lets say not directly! Actually the only solution I have found is to use a software called CNTLM that can act as a proxy server itself and behind the scene it can connect to another proxy server that is using NTLM." [1] As to what needed a compiler, that part I'm not sure about. Aren't Atom extensions generally in javascript? Could it have been the CNTLM installer that wanted a compiler? [1] https://devinthefastlane.wordpress.com/2015/12/24/how-to-installupdate-atom-packages-behind-corporate-proxy-ntlm/ https://devinthefastlane.wordpress.com/2015/12/24/how-to-ins...
- neves 11y agoI thought they were, but the simple installation of the column select mode failed with a message of missing compiler. I don't want to delve inside my editor internals. The first difficult thing is to discover that I have to install the sublime-style-column-selection package. So it failed and didn't researched more.
- hhandoko 11y agoNTLM auth is but one of various other roadblocks in a corporate environment. In my previous job, the company runs a MITM proxy, it broke SSL checks for package managers. You ended up having to disable SSL checks and load up company-issued certs. I asked whether we can find a solution to this issue on the company forum, as there are other developers and data analyst whose life can be made easier if this just works, the response I get was: "just download them manually", I kid you not.
- viraptor 11y agoSigh... corporate proxies are the worst software I ever had to deal with. Terrible for productivity. Enough that people bring in own 3g dongles and connect to that wifi instead. Whole audit/security defeated :(
- voltagex_ 11y agoPlease report issues instead of using things like CNTLM - it has at least one bug that causes crashes under heavy traffic and may require you to store your password/hash in an insecure way.
- coredog64 11y agoI have admin and can install anything locally, but also I can't get any Atom packages to install from behind our proxy. That's okay -- I just wait until I have my laptop on my WiFi network at home and everything is copacetic. It's not just me -- we had a trainer giving a class, & this guy lived and breathed Atom and he couldn't install an updated version of an existing package from our network either. His solution was to tether his phone.
- taude 11y agoI have the same problem with the Atom packages behind the proxy. I had to do some npm and git configuration to add http_proxy. It worked for a bit, then the corporate password changed, and I never really updated the buried settings. I'll probably have a pretty easy time getting the MSFT Visual Studio Code approved for machine installation for devs on my team, even though we're an Eclipse/Java shop. I've been trying to get everyone normalized on a JavaScript editor, since the tools we have in Eclipse are severely lacking.
- TAForObvReasons 11y ago> To quickly test a new general code editor I just want 3 "simple" things: column selection, regexp search and replace, and a python mode. What do you mean by python mode? Just syntax highlighting or something more advanced like an integrated REPL?
- falcolas 11y agoTo me (not OP), Python mode means syntax highlighting, code linting, code completion, and unit test integration from within the editor. There's a few other nice-to-haves, but those are the big ones.
- Pxtl 11y agoIn a simple text editor? My requirement would just be that copy/paste does intelligent things with indents.
- lowmess 11y agoFor me, it's a robust extension API, because then I can have any feature I want given enough time. Atom definitely has an edge there imo. Performance is also a plus (I have no complaints there with Atom). VSCode looks promising, though.
- falcolas 11y agoWell, I can do this in vim, so... yeah. If it can't do these things (more specifically be extended to do these things), it's a text editor I'd quickly put down for one which can.
- spdustin 11y agoIn Sublime, Paste and Indent (Shift-Cmd-V on Mac) does that fairly well. It's not based on an AST or anything like that, but it's rarely failed to do the right thing in my experience with these: Python, XML, HTML, CSS, SASS, PowerShell, YAML, Ruby
- enjoy-your-stay 11y agoJust wanted to say I find Notepad++ to be an excellent tabbed editor, especially for XML or SQL. I use it on windows all the time and really miss it on OS X where I find Textmate to be a bit awkward.
- neves 11y agoI like Notepad++, but I prefer one that works in Windows and in my linux home computer.
- bitmapbrother 11y agoNotepad++ does work on Linux and also Mac's using WINE.
- throweway 11y agoSeriously try gvim. Not vim where you need a long ass cheat sheet just to create a new tab or move between splits. But gvim where you can be productive and use the mouse and menus when necessary.
- klodolph 11y agoThe one thing that kills gvim for me is the inability to have one session with multiple windows. I use it anyway.
- gcr 11y agoHow would that be better than opening multiple gvim processes?
- klodolph 11y agoI want to type :wa in one window, not four windows. I don't want to get an error message when I try to open a buffer that's already open somewhere else, I want it to just move the buffer to the new window (or alternatively, raise the window containing the buffer). I want to move buffers across windows and keep undo history and register contents. TextMate / Emacs / etc. have this capability, but I can't figure out how to do it in vim.
- jasonjei 11y agoHow do corporate developers test and debug things without the root password? In some cases, you need to be able to start Visual Studio in UAC mode, and debug an already running process...
- kingnothing 11y agoI have no idea. I work for a very large software company and we all have root.
- HeavyStorm 11y agoWhich is to be expected since your core business is software. I work for a very large consulting company and I also have administrative access. But my client's machine do not - big insurance companies, banks, publishers, Telcos, petrochemicals, etc. Why? Tell me, if you were a system's administrator in charge of 10.000+, would you risk it? That's everything that's bad in corporate culture, but as you get big, it happens.
- ramchip 11y agoI worked in a bank previously. We did not have root, but we had a utility to run certain commands "as administrator". It popped up a dialog where you had to input a justification for auditing purposes. I don't recall needing it for debugging though, even when attaching to a running process (was your process started as a different user?)
- dsl 11y agoFrom a security perspective, we ask: why are you developing applications that can't be ran by normal users? For the 1% of devs working on system level stuff we provide VMs or separate physical servers that aren't joined to the corporate domain and don't have sensitive information on them.
- soft_dev_person 11y agoAs an example, VS needs UAC permission to integrate with a local IIS install, so there's a big group of .NET-based web developers that really need it with such a setup. But honestly, giving a developer non-admin privileges of their own (as in their work environment) computer is like giving a carpenter a rubber hammer to hammer nails. I find it insulting.
- guard-of-terra 11y ago"I belong to a lower race: the corporate developer. I work in a Windows 7 machine, don't have root password and there's a big wall called proxy around me" Sounds like an undeserving environment for a developer. Why not vote with your feet?
- Retra 11y agoIf the developer needs access, the product will suffer for a lack of it, and customers will eventually leave. If not, then it's just a petty complaint.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y agoJust because SV is an employee's market that doesn't mean that everywhere is, or that everybody has a lot of mobility in their personal life.
- KirinDave 11y agoBecause not everyone wants 20% below market rate, consntant negotiation headaches on stock dilution, an "infinite" vacation policy that actually means none, or being part of a culture that expects 70+ hour work weeks as normal, 3 months of maternity leave being ruinous to the company, etc. It's a tradeoff, for sure. But also most companies are waking up to the notion that trusted network models are not effective. It just takes time to change.
- danjayh 11y agoUgh. 'Infinite' vacation policies are starting to infect corporaculture. I work for a megacorp (that I actually rather enjoy working for) that recently went this way, and since my megacorp is a bit of a trend setter, you can expect it to spread. During the explanation meeting, it was made clear that we really aren't supposed to take more vacation than what we used to have, but that we are expected to still actually take about as much vacation as we used to have ... so essentially a no-change there. As far as I can tell, it's mostly about 1) Making it so that employees can't take vacation at times that are particularly bad for a project because they're 'entitled' to it. This was already frowned upon (we always did get to use our vacation eventually, so it wasn't so bad), but now it's in writing -- which is good, rules should be written. and, more importantly to the megacorp: 2) Eliminating owed vacation from their books & marginally reducing cost. Now if somebody quits or is canned, they're not owed a payout. I'm guessing the average employee will probably also take a couple of days less than they did under the old system, yielding a further savings.
- faitswulff 11y agoCurious if you've tried Sublime Text and your thoughts about using it in a corporate environment?
- jlubawy 11y agoI've been using Sublime Text 3 for probably 2-3 years now at work (and home) and I love it. The only downside is it costs money but you can use it for free as long as you don't mind a popup asking you to purchase it every 10-20 saves. I used Notepad++ for a few years before Sublime, I eventually switched because of the lack of Notepad++ support on Linux. I didn't want to have to remember the commands/shortcuts for two editors (and I avoid using Vim if I can).
- jevinskie 11y agoMy company now freely buys any employee a license, if they want one. Quite a few did and got a license. I'm not really sure how a half-IDE/half-editor intersects with corporate concerns, to be honest.
- mastazi 11y ago> Atom: [...] must install a column mode extension Atom has Sumblime-Text-style column selection using (on Win) CTRL-ALT; it works very well and feels familiar for people coming from Sublime Text (which has been very popular for years now). Actually, column selection is one of the things where I prefer Atom to VS Code (I love both editors for different reasons). But maybe you needed some particular style of column selection?
- beefsack 11y agoA lot of people don't want a bloated editor with too much bundled in by default. I'd be incredibly frustrated if there was some vertical selection functionality built in if it caused issues with a Vim mode extension.
- lawnchair_larry 11y agoLike a full web browser, for example?
- pbreit 11y agoAgreed that Microsoft has developed a very fine code editor and a worthy competitor to Atom & Sublime. And if you can believe it, Adobe actually produces a decent code editor: Brackets.
- k__ 11y agoIs it open source? (VSCode) Wikipedia: "Visual Studio Code is an open source source code editor"
- skun 11y agoYes sir: https://github.com/microsoft/vscode https://github.com/microsoft/vscode
- ckluis 11y agoI personally love the way Sublime saves everything in the editor even if you close it and reopen it.
- deevus 11y agoIf you have Powershell 3+ try http://scoop.sh/ http://scoop.sh/ at work. You can install many tools (including VSCode) from the command line.
- simula67 11y agoOr Chocolatey ( https://chocolatey.org/ https://chocolatey.org/ )
- HeavyStorm 11y agoNope, you need to (correctly) use chocolatey, since most things are installed. My last attempt at this was to install kdiff on a corporate machine
- jussij 11y ago> To quickly test a new general code editor I just want 3 "simple" things: column selection, regexp search and replace, and a python mode. FWIW since you mention Notepad++, Zeus is another Windows based programmer's editor with those three features.
- ericfrederich 11y agocntlm for the win. I don't know how I could do my job behind our corporate proxy without it.