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Oculus appears to be behind in hardware (room scale), software (fewer real VR games), and shipping date. I don't think they will disappear because VR is obviou

Oculus appears to be behind in hardware (room scale), software (fewer real VR games), and shipping date. I don't think they will disappear because VR is obviously part of the future. But I wonder when they will be able to turn a profit. Vive and Valve have the upper hand and it seems like exclusivity agreements would only hurt Oculus at this point. What innovations could the Rift make that give it some edge over future versions of the Vive?

mappu 11y ago
>Oculus appears to be behind in hardware (room scale) Room scale works well in Rift. Notably, there was a 15×11 room-scale test by Palmer Luckey himself[1], and comments from several prominent game developers including Fantastic Contraption[12]. >software (fewer real VR games) If the launch lineup of 30 games[7] doesn't convince you, and you're not interested in Minecraft[9] or the full back catalogue of PSP[10] or Wii[8] games, you can play any existing game in VR either in a large cinema display[6] or with full immersion[5]. >and shipping date. The Vive is not immune to shipping controversy and severe miscommunication[2]. Issues have included delays, queue drops, miscommunication, and corrupt/fraudulent shipping costs[11]. >I wonder when they will be able to turn a profit The headset is being sold at cost. Facebook already turns a profit. Talking of Oculus as an isolated single business unit will become less possible as time passes, but it is already projected to reach profitability in 6 years' time.[3] HTC has recently experienced some financial difficulty.[14] >Vive and Valve have the upper hand This is far from as clear as you're making it out to be. There's an significant amount of fanboyism and internet-defense-force allegations in various rift and oculus discussion forums, it's important to not get caught up in rumor and allegations. >What innovations could the Rift make that give it some edge over future versions of the Vive? Already, reviews uniformly state that the Rift headset has superior comfort[4]; that Oculus has a simpler out-of-the-box experience; that the integrated headphones significantly decrease complexity and cabling; and that Oculus Touch offers more precise control than the Vive wands, with full support for gesture detection[13] via the Half Moon ring. Plus, the inclusion of ATW directly in the SDK significantly increases comfort. Of course the Rift isn't perfect either, and VR has a long way to go. It will always be desirable to have higher resolution, better framerate, lighter profile and better optics. But we are very lucky to have multiple companies competing in this space with genuinely viable offerings. --- 1. http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-rift-touch-room-scale-vr-palmer-luckey-works-fine/ http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-rift-touch-room-scale-vr-palm... 2. http://blog.htcvive.com/us/2016/04/vive-shipment-updates/ http://blog.htcvive.com/us/2016/04/vive-shipment-updates/ 3. http://www.alphr.com/oculus-rift/1001753/oculus-rift-to-sell-five-million-units-in-2016-but-wont-turn-a-profit-say http://www.alphr.com/oculus-rift/1001753/oculus-rift-to-sell... 4. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/04/the-ars-vr-headset-showdown-oculus-rift-vs-htc-vive/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/04/the-ars-vr-headset-sho... "If there’s one area where the Rift unquestionably bests the Vive, it’s in the design of the physical headset. I was comfortable wearing the Rift for hours at a time without breaks and without any desire to take it off. With the Vive, on the other hand, I found myself needing to take frequent breaks and constantly fiddle with the fit to get comfortable." 5. http://www.vorpx.com/vorpx-16-1-oculus-rift-cv1-support-releases/ http://www.vorpx.com/vorpx-16-1-oculus-rift-cv1-support-rele... 6. http://store.steampowered.com/app/382110 http://store.steampowered.com/app/382110 7. https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/introducing-30-games-coming-to-oculus-on-march-28/ https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/introducing-30-games-comin... 8. https://dolphinvr.wordpress.com/ https://dolphinvr.wordpress.com/ 9. https://minecraft-vr.com/ https://minecraft-vr.com/ 10. https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/26990/ppsspp-vr-playstation-portable-emulator https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/26990/ppsspp-... 11. https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4diw2t/money_disappears_in_thin_air_htc_claiming_express/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4diw2t/money_disappea... 12. https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4bt7zj/fantastic_contraption_developers_confirm_room/ https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4bt7zj/fantastic_co... 13. http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-oculus-touch-is-an-elegant-extension-of-your-hand-for-touching-virtual-worlds/ http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-oculus-touch-is-an-elegant-... 14. http://www.extremetech.com/computing/211972-htc-declared-effectively-worthless-lgs-profit-margins-fall-to-a-penny-a-phone http://www.extremetech.com/computing/211972-htc-declared-eff...
- studentrob 11y ago
  Awesome response! I still hold the same opinion based on my research but love that you've backed up your argument with sources. I don't have the time or battery life on my phone to do the same at the moment. My sources are media such as twitter, blogs, YouTube and r/oculus and r/vive, and my gauge is public sentiment rather than actual experience with any device myself. Also, I like the nature of the HTC and Valve combination. HTC is headquartered nearer where the product is manufactured, which I believe allows them to develop faster and more efficiently, and the deal with Valve gives them a great inroad to marketing in the US and Europe while giving them top of the line gaming software at the same time. I hope both products succeed as that will make VR all the better in the future.
- croon 11y ago
  > Room scale works well in Rift. Notably, there was a 15×11 room-scale test by Palmer Luckey himself[1], and comments from several prominent game developers including Fantastic Contraption[12]. From your own sources, it's quotes from the Oculus founder, as well as game devs saying it's "almost as good" as the Vive, meaning Oculus DOES lag behind. > If the launch lineup of 30 games[7] doesn't convince you, and you're not interested in Minecraft[9] or the full back catalogue of PSP[10] or Wii[8] games, you can play any existing game in VR either in a large cinema display[6] or with full immersion[5]. He's saying he was not convinced by the games line-up, yes. What you're listing is three third-party mods, two of which of questionable legality (emulators), when factoring in the access to ROMs. And playing games in cinema mode is equally possible on both, so the original argument stands. > This is far from as clear as you're making it out to be. There's an significant amount of fanboyism and internet-defense-force allegations in various rift and oculus discussion forums, it's important to not get caught up in rumor and allegations. Couldn't have said it better myself. > Already, reviews uniformly state that the Rift headset has superior comfort[4]; that Oculus has a simpler out-of-the-box experience; that the integrated headphones significantly decrease complexity and cabling; and that Oculus Touch offers more precise control than the Vive wands, with full support for gesture detection[13] via the Half Moon ring. The comfort does favor Rift on average, but it's not uniformly, as the Vive supposedly is more comfortable with glasses (I don't have glasses). No citation on the simpler experience and more precise control. Everything I've read and watched has said that the Vive interface is a lot better. And "more control" I'm assuming you are referring to the Rift controllers that are not even released yet. Your sources are questionable opinion pieces at best. Or reported press releases. Internet-defense-force indeed.
VikingCoder 11y ago
Please watch Tested's head-to-head analysis. It's excellent. [1] In case you don't watch, they assert that the Rift headset is much better than the Vive headset. They say a bunch of other things, too - but that's the most important comment they make. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBieKwa2ID0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBieKwa2ID0
- studentrob 11y ago
  Thanks, I saw that, but I don't think that's the most important takeaway from their review. They said if they had to choose one device to use for the next 12 months it would be the Vive [1]. FYI there's a lot of discussion on r/vive about it [2]. [1] https://youtu.be/EBieKwa2ID0?t=1865 https://youtu.be/EBieKwa2ID0?t=1865 [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4eat6m/tested_indepth_oculus_rift_vs_htc_vive/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4eat6m/tested_indepth...
  - VikingCoder 11y ago
    Yeah, but they said every time they play a game on the Vive, they wish they were wearing the Rift. You can add Touch controllers and a second camera to the Rift, but the Vive is never getting more comfortable or crisper.
    - studentrob 11y ago
      > You can add Touch controllers and a second camera to the Rift, but the Vive is never getting more comfortable or crisper. Currently, you cannot add these things to the Rift. I think @croon put this best in another comment, > The trade show Kinect displays were also immensely more functional than the released products. The Oculus Touch is not a real product (yet). Same goes for the roomscale tracking. There's no point in discussing the capabilities of a product before it's manufactured at scale, with all the cost-cutting that entails. Trade show demos really does not say anything unless the product on show has gone to production. When Touch becomes available on the Rift, Vive could be ready with newer versions of their headset. There are many hypotheticals in the future. Perhaps in a year the Rift will have the edge. Today, people seem to prefer the Vive when balancing the pros and cons of each system.
gjolund 11y ago
The oculus cv1 was so unimpressive after using the vive that I ebayed mine (to some dude in china for $1400) within 2 hours of recieving it (for free thank god). The product has not evolved since the kickstarter project, all facebook has done is add a better screen, shitty headphones, a lot of extra wires, and a shitty positional tracking system.

mappu 11y ago

>Oculus appears to be behind in hardware (room scale) Room scale works well in Rift. Notably, there was a 15×11 room-scale test by Palmer Luckey himself[1], and comments from several prominent game developers including Fantastic Contraption[12]. >software (fewer real VR games) If the launch lineup of 30 games[7] doesn't convince you, and you're not interested in Minecraft[9] or the full back catalogue of PSP[10] or Wii[8] games, you can play any existing game in VR either in a large cinema display[6] or with full immersion[5]. >and shipping date. The Vive is not immune to shipping controversy and severe miscommunication[2]. Issues have included delays, queue drops, miscommunication, and corrupt/fraudulent shipping costs[11]. >I wonder when they will be able to turn a profit The headset is being sold at cost. Facebook already turns a profit. Talking of Oculus as an isolated single business unit will become less possible as time passes, but it is already projected to reach profitability in 6 years' time.[3] HTC has recently experienced some financial difficulty.[14] >Vive and Valve have the upper hand This is far from as clear as you're making it out to be. There's an significant amount of fanboyism and internet-defense-force allegations in various rift and oculus discussion forums, it's important to not get caught up in rumor and allegations. >What innovations could the Rift make that give it some edge over future versions of the Vive? Already, reviews uniformly state that the Rift headset has superior comfort[4]; that Oculus has a simpler out-of-the-box experience; that the integrated headphones significantly decrease complexity and cabling; and that Oculus Touch offers more precise control than the Vive wands, with full support for gesture detection[13] via the Half Moon ring. Plus, the inclusion of ATW directly in the SDK significantly increases comfort. Of course the Rift isn't perfect either, and VR has a long way to go. It will always be desirable to have higher resolution, better framerate, lighter profile and better optics. But we are very lucky to have multiple companies competing in this space with genuinely viable offerings. --- 1. http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-rift-touch-room-scale-vr-palmer-luckey-works-fine/ http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-rift-touch-room-scale-vr-palm... 2. http://blog.htcvive.com/us/2016/04/vive-shipment-updates/ http://blog.htcvive.com/us/2016/04/vive-shipment-updates/ 3. http://www.alphr.com/oculus-rift/1001753/oculus-rift-to-sell-five-million-units-in-2016-but-wont-turn-a-profit-say http://www.alphr.com/oculus-rift/1001753/oculus-rift-to-sell... 4. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/04/the-ars-vr-headset-showdown-oculus-rift-vs-htc-vive/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/04/the-ars-vr-headset-sho... "If there’s one area where the Rift unquestionably bests the Vive, it’s in the design of the physical headset. I was comfortable wearing the Rift for hours at a time without breaks and without any desire to take it off. With the Vive, on the other hand, I found myself needing to take frequent breaks and constantly fiddle with the fit to get comfortable." 5. http://www.vorpx.com/vorpx-16-1-oculus-rift-cv1-support-releases/ http://www.vorpx.com/vorpx-16-1-oculus-rift-cv1-support-rele... 6. http://store.steampowered.com/app/382110 http://store.steampowered.com/app/382110 7. https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/introducing-30-games-coming-to-oculus-on-march-28/ https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/introducing-30-games-comin... 8. https://dolphinvr.wordpress.com/ https://dolphinvr.wordpress.com/ 9. https://minecraft-vr.com/ https://minecraft-vr.com/ 10. https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/26990/ppsspp-vr-playstation-portable-emulator https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/26990/ppsspp-... 11. https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4diw2t/money_disappears_in_thin_air_htc_claiming_express/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4diw2t/money_disappea... 12. https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4bt7zj/fantastic_contraption_developers_confirm_room/ https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4bt7zj/fantastic_co... 13. http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-oculus-touch-is-an-elegant-extension-of-your-hand-for-touching-virtual-worlds/ http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-oculus-touch-is-an-elegant-... 14. http://www.extremetech.com/computing/211972-htc-declared-effectively-worthless-lgs-profit-margins-fall-to-a-penny-a-phone http://www.extremetech.com/computing/211972-htc-declared-eff...

studentrob 11y ago
Awesome response! I still hold the same opinion based on my research but love that you've backed up your argument with sources. I don't have the time or battery life on my phone to do the same at the moment. My sources are media such as twitter, blogs, YouTube and r/oculus and r/vive, and my gauge is public sentiment rather than actual experience with any device myself. Also, I like the nature of the HTC and Valve combination. HTC is headquartered nearer where the product is manufactured, which I believe allows them to develop faster and more efficiently, and the deal with Valve gives them a great inroad to marketing in the US and Europe while giving them top of the line gaming software at the same time. I hope both products succeed as that will make VR all the better in the future.
croon 11y ago
> Room scale works well in Rift. Notably, there was a 15×11 room-scale test by Palmer Luckey himself[1], and comments from several prominent game developers including Fantastic Contraption[12]. From your own sources, it's quotes from the Oculus founder, as well as game devs saying it's "almost as good" as the Vive, meaning Oculus DOES lag behind. > If the launch lineup of 30 games[7] doesn't convince you, and you're not interested in Minecraft[9] or the full back catalogue of PSP[10] or Wii[8] games, you can play any existing game in VR either in a large cinema display[6] or with full immersion[5]. He's saying he was not convinced by the games line-up, yes. What you're listing is three third-party mods, two of which of questionable legality (emulators), when factoring in the access to ROMs. And playing games in cinema mode is equally possible on both, so the original argument stands. > This is far from as clear as you're making it out to be. There's an significant amount of fanboyism and internet-defense-force allegations in various rift and oculus discussion forums, it's important to not get caught up in rumor and allegations. Couldn't have said it better myself. > Already, reviews uniformly state that the Rift headset has superior comfort[4]; that Oculus has a simpler out-of-the-box experience; that the integrated headphones significantly decrease complexity and cabling; and that Oculus Touch offers more precise control than the Vive wands, with full support for gesture detection[13] via the Half Moon ring. The comfort does favor Rift on average, but it's not uniformly, as the Vive supposedly is more comfortable with glasses (I don't have glasses). No citation on the simpler experience and more precise control. Everything I've read and watched has said that the Vive interface is a lot better. And "more control" I'm assuming you are referring to the Rift controllers that are not even released yet. Your sources are questionable opinion pieces at best. Or reported press releases. Internet-defense-force indeed.

VikingCoder 11y ago

Please watch Tested's head-to-head analysis. It's excellent. [1] In case you don't watch, they assert that the Rift headset is much better than the Vive headset. They say a bunch of other things, too - but that's the most important comment they make. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBieKwa2ID0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBieKwa2ID0

studentrob 11y ago
Thanks, I saw that, but I don't think that's the most important takeaway from their review. They said if they had to choose one device to use for the next 12 months it would be the Vive [1]. FYI there's a lot of discussion on r/vive about it [2]. [1] https://youtu.be/EBieKwa2ID0?t=1865 https://youtu.be/EBieKwa2ID0?t=1865 [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4eat6m/tested_indepth_oculus_rift_vs_htc_vive/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4eat6m/tested_indepth...
- VikingCoder 11y ago
  Yeah, but they said every time they play a game on the Vive, they wish they were wearing the Rift. You can add Touch controllers and a second camera to the Rift, but the Vive is never getting more comfortable or crisper.
  - studentrob 11y ago
    > You can add Touch controllers and a second camera to the Rift, but the Vive is never getting more comfortable or crisper. Currently, you cannot add these things to the Rift. I think @croon put this best in another comment, > The trade show Kinect displays were also immensely more functional than the released products. The Oculus Touch is not a real product (yet). Same goes for the roomscale tracking. There's no point in discussing the capabilities of a product before it's manufactured at scale, with all the cost-cutting that entails. Trade show demos really does not say anything unless the product on show has gone to production. When Touch becomes available on the Rift, Vive could be ready with newer versions of their headset. There are many hypotheticals in the future. Perhaps in a year the Rift will have the edge. Today, people seem to prefer the Vive when balancing the pros and cons of each system.

gjolund 11y ago

The oculus cv1 was so unimpressive after using the vive that I ebayed mine (to some dude in china for $1400) within 2 hours of recieving it (for free thank god). The product has not evolved since the kickstarter project, all facebook has done is add a better screen, shitty headphones, a lot of extra wires, and a shitty positional tracking system.