10 ms·

Oculus Rift Exclusives on the HTC Vive – Proof of Concept

91 points by sergiotapia 11y ago

keyle 11y ago
This is exciting work. I guess it makes sense for the fact that Oculus have a parts shortage causing delays, while the vive seems to ship. It would be a shame if most games would stay exclusive to one or the other.
- aianus 11y ago
  > parts shortage causing delays, while the vive seems to ship I tried adding a Vive to cart and they gave me a June shipping date, same as my Oculus preorder.
  - yohui 11y ago
    Current estimated ship date for a new Vive order is "around June". Current estimated ship date for a new Oculus Rift orders is August.
  - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
    So youre comparing placing a vive order on April 14th to making a pre-order months ago for a Rift? Ordering a Rift today means an August ship date. These two situations aren't remotely comparable.
- strictnein 11y ago
  Wish my Vive would ship. I backed the original Kickstarter for Oculus, and I got my free Rift a couple weeks ago. I ordered my Vive an hour or two after preorders started and it still hasn't shipped. And the only date I have for it to ship is "April".
mmel 11y ago
Would pre-Facebook Oculus VR be as obsessed with code signing and attempts at vendor lock-in?
- kirrent 11y ago
  The SDK has always been relatively closed even before the Facebook acquisition. They've always touted it as being important for guaranteeing the quality of an experience which I don't necessarily disagree with but its also important for their goal of becoming the biggest VR software platform.
  - Tmmrn 11y ago
    Before the facebook acquisition you could download the source code for the SDK and it had cross platform support. After Facebook: Closed Source, Windows-only.
    - coldpie 11y ago
      No, the Oculus server process that does the actual webcam analysis and communication with the HMD and graphics hardware has always been closed.
      - Tmmrn 11y ago
        Yes, but this server application was only introduced with the DK2 and the 0.4.x SDK which was delivered after the facebook acquisition. Whether they would have hold back the source code without facebook - who the hell knows?
        coldpie 11y ago
        Oh, I didn't know that. I thought the server had been around since the beginning.
        kirrent 11y ago
        Huh, I didn't know that. I never really had a look at any SDK earlier than that. I just had a false memory that the DK2 came out before the fb acquisition. I do remember Oculus intimating that they couldn't open up the tracking code because it was some proprietary stuff they'd bought but that's almost certainly not the case now.
shmerl 11y ago
Does OpenVR require runtime? It's pretty confusing: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr This repository is an SDK that contains the API and samples. The runtime is under SteamVR in Tools on Steam. It sounds tied to Steam. Or it can work without it?
- MrRadar 11y ago
  It's... slightly complicated. In theory OpenVR is "open" in the same sense as OpenGL in that it is an open API that anyone can implement (but which doesn't have a standardized open-source implementation). However right now that aspect of it is just theoretical since the only runtime implementation of OpenVR is the SteamVR runtime (which is only distributed through Steam) and Valve are solely responsible for defining the API (there's no equivalent to the Khronos Group for OpenVR).
  - shmerl 11y ago
    I see. So Vive is de facto tied to Steam at present, but if another implementation will show up, it would be usable outside of it. Not a pretty situation, when hardware is tied to a distributor. Oculus situation doesn't look any better. Will OSVR support it may be? I found only this: https://github.com/osvr/osvr-vive https://github.com/osvr/osvr-vive But it doesn't implement OpenVR, it only connects to existing one.
    - yohui 11y ago
      Are you asking whether the Vive is tied to Steam (the game distribution platform), or tied to OpenVR? Currently Steam is the only game store that supports the HTC Vive, but as Valve co-founder Gabe Newell has said: https://reddit.com/491hu4 https://reddit.com/491hu4 And the leaked HTC Viveport demonstrates: https://www.vrfocus.com/2016/01/htc-viveport-store-is-optional-designed-for-people-who-cant-use-steam/ https://www.vrfocus.com/2016/01/htc-viveport-store-is-option... There is nothing stopping other stores from selling games for the HTC Vive. As for OpenVR (or SteamVR, Valve's implementation of it), I'm not sure it makes sense to ask whether the Vive is tied to it. Is your graphics card "tied" to your graphics driver or its OpenGL implementation? The current situation, as MrRadar said, is that games can support OpenVR and headsets can adopt OpenVR without seeking anyone's permission. Compare that to the situation with the other leading VR headset and make of it what you will.
jamesrom 11y ago
Let's hope that Oculus see this and decide to open up, instead of lock down. We can hope right?
- hanief 11y ago
  I suspect Oculus Rift is gunning the high end much like the Apple strategy, so quality and exclusivity is going to be important value proposition. From the company point of view, this is the logical decision, since the Gear VR or Google Cardboard strategy probably won't give them much revenue.
  - studentrob 11y ago
    > quality and exclusivity is going to be important value proposition. From the company point of view, this is the logical decision Debatable. Developers and customers are becoming more mindful of the value of open systems. If the best developers are not exclusively working on Rift-only games, then Rift gains little by investing in that idea. Exclusivity only works when you have the best people working on your product.
  - Tepix 11y ago
    The code released today is an early alpha, yet people say that the quality of the experience when playing the Oculus Store game on the Vive is excellent. That pretty much invalidates that argument.
  - moron4hire 11y ago
    "quality" and "closed source" do not go in the same sentence together.
- tudorw 11y ago
  sure, guaranteed, like all the stories before this one, it might take 10 years to play out and by the time it happens we'll be laughing at the low capability of these devices, happy days.
thravesty 11y ago
The title is arguably inaccurate, as Oculus have repeatedly stated that these are Oculus Store exclusives, not Rift hardware exclusives, eg [1]. Since the Rift is the only PC headset currently supported by the Oculus Store, that's a bit of a technical distinction. But it does imply that they shouldn't have a big problem with this sort of compatibility layer existing, though they're unlikely to support it directly for obvious QA reasons. After all, you still have to buy the games from them! [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/40ea0x/i_am_palmer_luckey_founder_of_oculus_and_designer/cytjqi3 https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/40ea0x/i_am_p...
- yincrash 11y ago
  According to github, it seems that the VR stuff is codesigned, so to use the compat layer, you have to patch out the verification of code signatures, meaning that it is indeed tied to specific hardware in the code of each application
studentrob 11y ago
Oculus appears to be behind in hardware (room scale), software (fewer real VR games), and shipping date. I don't think they will disappear because VR is obviously part of the future. But I wonder when they will be able to turn a profit. Vive and Valve have the upper hand and it seems like exclusivity agreements would only hurt Oculus at this point. What innovations could the Rift make that give it some edge over future versions of the Vive?
- mappu 11y ago
  >Oculus appears to be behind in hardware (room scale) Room scale works well in Rift. Notably, there was a 15×11 room-scale test by Palmer Luckey himself[1], and comments from several prominent game developers including Fantastic Contraption[12]. >software (fewer real VR games) If the launch lineup of 30 games[7] doesn't convince you, and you're not interested in Minecraft[9] or the full back catalogue of PSP[10] or Wii[8] games, you can play any existing game in VR either in a large cinema display[6] or with full immersion[5]. >and shipping date. The Vive is not immune to shipping controversy and severe miscommunication[2]. Issues have included delays, queue drops, miscommunication, and corrupt/fraudulent shipping costs[11]. >I wonder when they will be able to turn a profit The headset is being sold at cost. Facebook already turns a profit. Talking of Oculus as an isolated single business unit will become less possible as time passes, but it is already projected to reach profitability in 6 years' time.[3] HTC has recently experienced some financial difficulty.[14] >Vive and Valve have the upper hand This is far from as clear as you're making it out to be. There's an significant amount of fanboyism and internet-defense-force allegations in various rift and oculus discussion forums, it's important to not get caught up in rumor and allegations. >What innovations could the Rift make that give it some edge over future versions of the Vive? Already, reviews uniformly state that the Rift headset has superior comfort[4]; that Oculus has a simpler out-of-the-box experience; that the integrated headphones significantly decrease complexity and cabling; and that Oculus Touch offers more precise control than the Vive wands, with full support for gesture detection[13] via the Half Moon ring. Plus, the inclusion of ATW directly in the SDK significantly increases comfort. Of course the Rift isn't perfect either, and VR has a long way to go. It will always be desirable to have higher resolution, better framerate, lighter profile and better optics. But we are very lucky to have multiple companies competing in this space with genuinely viable offerings. --- 1. http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-rift-touch-room-scale-vr-palmer-luckey-works-fine/ http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-rift-touch-room-scale-vr-palm... 2. http://blog.htcvive.com/us/2016/04/vive-shipment-updates/ http://blog.htcvive.com/us/2016/04/vive-shipment-updates/ 3. http://www.alphr.com/oculus-rift/1001753/oculus-rift-to-sell-five-million-units-in-2016-but-wont-turn-a-profit-say http://www.alphr.com/oculus-rift/1001753/oculus-rift-to-sell... 4. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/04/the-ars-vr-headset-showdown-oculus-rift-vs-htc-vive/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/04/the-ars-vr-headset-sho... "If there’s one area where the Rift unquestionably bests the Vive, it’s in the design of the physical headset. I was comfortable wearing the Rift for hours at a time without breaks and without any desire to take it off. With the Vive, on the other hand, I found myself needing to take frequent breaks and constantly fiddle with the fit to get comfortable." 5. http://www.vorpx.com/vorpx-16-1-oculus-rift-cv1-support-releases/ http://www.vorpx.com/vorpx-16-1-oculus-rift-cv1-support-rele... 6. http://store.steampowered.com/app/382110 http://store.steampowered.com/app/382110 7. https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/introducing-30-games-coming-to-oculus-on-march-28/ https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/introducing-30-games-comin... 8. https://dolphinvr.wordpress.com/ https://dolphinvr.wordpress.com/ 9. https://minecraft-vr.com/ https://minecraft-vr.com/ 10. https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/26990/ppsspp-vr-playstation-portable-emulator https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/26990/ppsspp-... 11. https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4diw2t/money_disappears_in_thin_air_htc_claiming_express/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4diw2t/money_disappea... 12. https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4bt7zj/fantastic_contraption_developers_confirm_room/ https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4bt7zj/fantastic_co... 13. http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-oculus-touch-is-an-elegant-extension-of-your-hand-for-touching-virtual-worlds/ http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-oculus-touch-is-an-elegant-... 14. http://www.extremetech.com/computing/211972-htc-declared-effectively-worthless-lgs-profit-margins-fall-to-a-penny-a-phone http://www.extremetech.com/computing/211972-htc-declared-eff...
Tmmrn 11y ago
Unfortunately it doesn't matter much - The Vive will likely soon get Linux support, but all the Oculus games will remain exclusive to Windows, because that's the only operating system Oculus supports - even though most of the popular game engines used for VR do have a Linux version.
- Tepix 11y ago
  It does matter for the very few people who do not run Linux and use Windows instead for their gaming </sarcasm>
saturdaysaint 11y ago
I'm happy to see an element of fanboy argument here. To me, it indicates that there is real competition and that early adopters are passionate and highly invested - both bode well for the future of the medium.
killa_kyle 11y ago
After a week with the Rift, I'm pretty bored honestly. Most of the wow factor of looking around has faded and I want my Vive so I can use my hands.
- killa_kyle 11y ago
  I'm actually about to sell it today and just be VR-less until my vive arrives.

91 points by sergiotapia 11y ago

keyle 11y ago

This is exciting work. I guess it makes sense for the fact that Oculus have a parts shortage causing delays, while the vive seems to ship. It would be a shame if most games would stay exclusive to one or the other.

aianus 11y ago
> parts shortage causing delays, while the vive seems to ship I tried adding a Vive to cart and they gave me a June shipping date, same as my Oculus preorder.
- yohui 11y ago
  Current estimated ship date for a new Vive order is "around June". Current estimated ship date for a new Oculus Rift orders is August.
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  So youre comparing placing a vive order on April 14th to making a pre-order months ago for a Rift? Ordering a Rift today means an August ship date. These two situations aren't remotely comparable.
strictnein 11y ago
Wish my Vive would ship. I backed the original Kickstarter for Oculus, and I got my free Rift a couple weeks ago. I ordered my Vive an hour or two after preorders started and it still hasn't shipped. And the only date I have for it to ship is "April".

mmel 11y ago

Would pre-Facebook Oculus VR be as obsessed with code signing and attempts at vendor lock-in?

kirrent 11y ago
The SDK has always been relatively closed even before the Facebook acquisition. They've always touted it as being important for guaranteeing the quality of an experience which I don't necessarily disagree with but its also important for their goal of becoming the biggest VR software platform.
- Tmmrn 11y ago
  Before the facebook acquisition you could download the source code for the SDK and it had cross platform support. After Facebook: Closed Source, Windows-only.
  - coldpie 11y ago
    No, the Oculus server process that does the actual webcam analysis and communication with the HMD and graphics hardware has always been closed.
    - Tmmrn 11y ago
      Yes, but this server application was only introduced with the DK2 and the 0.4.x SDK which was delivered after the facebook acquisition. Whether they would have hold back the source code without facebook - who the hell knows?
      - coldpie 11y ago
        Oh, I didn't know that. I thought the server had been around since the beginning.
      - kirrent 11y ago
        Huh, I didn't know that. I never really had a look at any SDK earlier than that. I just had a false memory that the DK2 came out before the fb acquisition. I do remember Oculus intimating that they couldn't open up the tracking code because it was some proprietary stuff they'd bought but that's almost certainly not the case now.

shmerl 11y ago

Does OpenVR require runtime? It's pretty confusing: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr This repository is an SDK that contains the API and samples. The runtime is under SteamVR in Tools on Steam. It sounds tied to Steam. Or it can work without it?

MrRadar 11y ago
It's... slightly complicated. In theory OpenVR is "open" in the same sense as OpenGL in that it is an open API that anyone can implement (but which doesn't have a standardized open-source implementation). However right now that aspect of it is just theoretical since the only runtime implementation of OpenVR is the SteamVR runtime (which is only distributed through Steam) and Valve are solely responsible for defining the API (there's no equivalent to the Khronos Group for OpenVR).
- shmerl 11y ago
  I see. So Vive is de facto tied to Steam at present, but if another implementation will show up, it would be usable outside of it. Not a pretty situation, when hardware is tied to a distributor. Oculus situation doesn't look any better. Will OSVR support it may be? I found only this: https://github.com/osvr/osvr-vive https://github.com/osvr/osvr-vive But it doesn't implement OpenVR, it only connects to existing one.
  - yohui 11y ago
    Are you asking whether the Vive is tied to Steam (the game distribution platform), or tied to OpenVR? Currently Steam is the only game store that supports the HTC Vive, but as Valve co-founder Gabe Newell has said: https://reddit.com/491hu4 https://reddit.com/491hu4 And the leaked HTC Viveport demonstrates: https://www.vrfocus.com/2016/01/htc-viveport-store-is-optional-designed-for-people-who-cant-use-steam/ https://www.vrfocus.com/2016/01/htc-viveport-store-is-option... There is nothing stopping other stores from selling games for the HTC Vive. As for OpenVR (or SteamVR, Valve's implementation of it), I'm not sure it makes sense to ask whether the Vive is tied to it. Is your graphics card "tied" to your graphics driver or its OpenGL implementation? The current situation, as MrRadar said, is that games can support OpenVR and headsets can adopt OpenVR without seeking anyone's permission. Compare that to the situation with the other leading VR headset and make of it what you will.

jamesrom 11y ago

Let's hope that Oculus see this and decide to open up, instead of lock down. We can hope right?

hanief 11y ago
I suspect Oculus Rift is gunning the high end much like the Apple strategy, so quality and exclusivity is going to be important value proposition. From the company point of view, this is the logical decision, since the Gear VR or Google Cardboard strategy probably won't give them much revenue.
- studentrob 11y ago
  > quality and exclusivity is going to be important value proposition. From the company point of view, this is the logical decision Debatable. Developers and customers are becoming more mindful of the value of open systems. If the best developers are not exclusively working on Rift-only games, then Rift gains little by investing in that idea. Exclusivity only works when you have the best people working on your product.
- Tepix 11y ago
  The code released today is an early alpha, yet people say that the quality of the experience when playing the Oculus Store game on the Vive is excellent. That pretty much invalidates that argument.
- moron4hire 11y ago
  "quality" and "closed source" do not go in the same sentence together.
tudorw 11y ago
sure, guaranteed, like all the stories before this one, it might take 10 years to play out and by the time it happens we'll be laughing at the low capability of these devices, happy days.

thravesty 11y ago

The title is arguably inaccurate, as Oculus have repeatedly stated that these are Oculus Store exclusives, not Rift hardware exclusives, eg [1]. Since the Rift is the only PC headset currently supported by the Oculus Store, that's a bit of a technical distinction. But it does imply that they shouldn't have a big problem with this sort of compatibility layer existing, though they're unlikely to support it directly for obvious QA reasons. After all, you still have to buy the games from them! [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/40ea0x/i_am_palmer_luckey_founder_of_oculus_and_designer/cytjqi3 https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/40ea0x/i_am_p...

yincrash 11y ago
According to github, it seems that the VR stuff is codesigned, so to use the compat layer, you have to patch out the verification of code signatures, meaning that it is indeed tied to specific hardware in the code of each application

studentrob 11y ago

Oculus appears to be behind in hardware (room scale), software (fewer real VR games), and shipping date. I don't think they will disappear because VR is obviously part of the future. But I wonder when they will be able to turn a profit. Vive and Valve have the upper hand and it seems like exclusivity agreements would only hurt Oculus at this point. What innovations could the Rift make that give it some edge over future versions of the Vive?

mappu 11y ago
>Oculus appears to be behind in hardware (room scale) Room scale works well in Rift. Notably, there was a 15×11 room-scale test by Palmer Luckey himself[1], and comments from several prominent game developers including Fantastic Contraption[12]. >software (fewer real VR games) If the launch lineup of 30 games[7] doesn't convince you, and you're not interested in Minecraft[9] or the full back catalogue of PSP[10] or Wii[8] games, you can play any existing game in VR either in a large cinema display[6] or with full immersion[5]. >and shipping date. The Vive is not immune to shipping controversy and severe miscommunication[2]. Issues have included delays, queue drops, miscommunication, and corrupt/fraudulent shipping costs[11]. >I wonder when they will be able to turn a profit The headset is being sold at cost. Facebook already turns a profit. Talking of Oculus as an isolated single business unit will become less possible as time passes, but it is already projected to reach profitability in 6 years' time.[3] HTC has recently experienced some financial difficulty.[14] >Vive and Valve have the upper hand This is far from as clear as you're making it out to be. There's an significant amount of fanboyism and internet-defense-force allegations in various rift and oculus discussion forums, it's important to not get caught up in rumor and allegations. >What innovations could the Rift make that give it some edge over future versions of the Vive? Already, reviews uniformly state that the Rift headset has superior comfort[4]; that Oculus has a simpler out-of-the-box experience; that the integrated headphones significantly decrease complexity and cabling; and that Oculus Touch offers more precise control than the Vive wands, with full support for gesture detection[13] via the Half Moon ring. Plus, the inclusion of ATW directly in the SDK significantly increases comfort. Of course the Rift isn't perfect either, and VR has a long way to go. It will always be desirable to have higher resolution, better framerate, lighter profile and better optics. But we are very lucky to have multiple companies competing in this space with genuinely viable offerings. --- 1. http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-rift-touch-room-scale-vr-palmer-luckey-works-fine/ http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-rift-touch-room-scale-vr-palm... 2. http://blog.htcvive.com/us/2016/04/vive-shipment-updates/ http://blog.htcvive.com/us/2016/04/vive-shipment-updates/ 3. http://www.alphr.com/oculus-rift/1001753/oculus-rift-to-sell-five-million-units-in-2016-but-wont-turn-a-profit-say http://www.alphr.com/oculus-rift/1001753/oculus-rift-to-sell... 4. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/04/the-ars-vr-headset-showdown-oculus-rift-vs-htc-vive/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/04/the-ars-vr-headset-sho... "If there’s one area where the Rift unquestionably bests the Vive, it’s in the design of the physical headset. I was comfortable wearing the Rift for hours at a time without breaks and without any desire to take it off. With the Vive, on the other hand, I found myself needing to take frequent breaks and constantly fiddle with the fit to get comfortable." 5. http://www.vorpx.com/vorpx-16-1-oculus-rift-cv1-support-releases/ http://www.vorpx.com/vorpx-16-1-oculus-rift-cv1-support-rele... 6. http://store.steampowered.com/app/382110 http://store.steampowered.com/app/382110 7. https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/introducing-30-games-coming-to-oculus-on-march-28/ https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/introducing-30-games-comin... 8. https://dolphinvr.wordpress.com/ https://dolphinvr.wordpress.com/ 9. https://minecraft-vr.com/ https://minecraft-vr.com/ 10. https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/26990/ppsspp-vr-playstation-portable-emulator https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/26990/ppsspp-... 11. https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4diw2t/money_disappears_in_thin_air_htc_claiming_express/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4diw2t/money_disappea... 12. https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4bt7zj/fantastic_contraption_developers_confirm_room/ https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4bt7zj/fantastic_co... 13. http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-oculus-touch-is-an-elegant-extension-of-your-hand-for-touching-virtual-worlds/ http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-oculus-touch-is-an-elegant-... 14. http://www.extremetech.com/computing/211972-htc-declared-effectively-worthless-lgs-profit-margins-fall-to-a-penny-a-phone http://www.extremetech.com/computing/211972-htc-declared-eff...

Tmmrn 11y ago

Unfortunately it doesn't matter much - The Vive will likely soon get Linux support, but all the Oculus games will remain exclusive to Windows, because that's the only operating system Oculus supports - even though most of the popular game engines used for VR do have a Linux version.

Tepix 11y ago
It does matter for the very few people who do not run Linux and use Windows instead for their gaming </sarcasm>

saturdaysaint 11y ago

I'm happy to see an element of fanboy argument here. To me, it indicates that there is real competition and that early adopters are passionate and highly invested - both bode well for the future of the medium.

killa_kyle 11y ago

After a week with the Rift, I'm pretty bored honestly. Most of the wow factor of looking around has faded and I want my Vive so I can use my hands.

killa_kyle 11y ago
I'm actually about to sell it today and just be VR-less until my vive arrives.