5 ms·

You're deep in a habitual cycle of dependency. It's not a good place but you can get out. Cut the coffee immediately, throw it out if you need to. Your hunge

by brador 11y ago

You're deep in a habitual cycle of dependency. It's not a good place but you can get out. Cut the coffee immediately, throw it out if you need to. Your hunger should return in a few hours. Take a shower, wear clean clothes, prepare a nice filling fatty meal, pizza is a good option. Has to be a high fat meal to make food appealing again. After this you're gonna crash hard as your mind and body recovers. Go to bed.

madaxe_again 11y ago
Oh, I'm immaculately dressed - gotta look good for the clients. The coffee is effect, not cause - although I am fully aware I've a raging caffeine addiction. No chance to go to bed, I have conference calls, staff disciplinary meetings, budgets, strategy sessions, and contracts to sort out. As I said, it's OK. I've made my peace with gnawing anxiety, stress and suicidal depression as normal facts of life. It's like being bedfellows with a axe murderer - just fine, so long as you never relax and let your guard down. Sure I'm neurotic, but who isn't?
- chris_wot 11y ago
  Gnawing anxiety, stress and suicidal depression are not normal. I've been where you are, and I'm really, really concerned. I'm not saying give up work or anything like that, but I'd really urge you to seek out a medical professional if you haven't already. There's a tipping point where things get so bad you won't be able to function, and believe me it's far, far better to get in front of it than to need to get help after that tipping point. Sorry if I sound preachy, I say this out of genuine concern for your well being :-)
  - madaxe_again 11y ago
    Ah, but they are - at any rate, they are to me. I'm torn on seeking professional help, as while a therapist I saw last year practically begged me to see a psychoanalyst, I demurred, as I know that in the eyes of a practitioner I'd fall into the "risk of harm to self" category (except I don't self harm - apart from my sustained "lifestyle" choices), and being sectioned and chucked in a facility would be a fate worse than death. A good friend went to the NHS regarding depression about 15 years ago, aged 17. They put her in a facility for 18 months, and gave her a hysterectomy. No way am I going anywhere near that particular hell.
    - pgeorgi 11y ago
      As long as you're functioning (which it seems you are to some sufficient degree), I wouldn't expect drastic measures. To try another angle, do you have a mentor/supervisor? If not, maybe look out for some experienced (potentially retired) manager that you trust. There are also professional services in that space. They may not know your business, but they know the responsibility you feel for keeping things alive. They might be able to help with the culture shift issue you mentioned elsewhere but also with management in general (including "how to make sure that the company doesn't have a bus factor of 1: me") and self-care - one low key strategy in that regard might be to hold you accountable to certain habits that you agreed on (eg. "eat twice a day"). Speaking of which: got something to eat yet?
    - DanBC 11y ago
      I hope you can see that many people are concerned about you. Perhaps that compassion is some comfort? The rest of my post is some advice, but please feel free to ignore it if it's not wanted. You say you would consider treatment, but that you have two worries. 1) That they would detain you under section 2) that they would subject you to treatment against your will 1) Detention under section: There's no chance you'll be detained under section of the mental health act unless you have a definite plan to die by suicide and you intend to act on it soon. And even then it probably wouldn't happen. Currently there just aren't enough beds available, for one thing. The other reason is that most trusts should have moved to a "crisis resolution and home treatment team" model. These teams provide short term interventions and are specifically designed to keep people out of hospital - we know that hospital in-patient stays tend to make things worse, not better. You would do most of your work with a community treatment team with CRHTT help when needed. 2) Forced treatment: Mental health treatment is very different today than it was 15 years ago. The Mental Capacity Act came in in 2005, so it wouldn't be possible for them to detain you under section and take out your womb (if you had one) today unless there were very unusual circumstances. Here's a case where a man who lacked capacity in some areas was deemed to have enough capacity to make a medical decision that resulted in his death: https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2015/10/13/court-of-protection-upholds-the-right-of-a-confused-lonely-man-to-refuse-treatment/ https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2015/10/13/court-of-protection... That's a gruesome case but I hope it shows that forcing treatment only happens under certain circumstances. There are some powers under MCA and MHA to force medication, but those are not common. Nationally less than 10% of people under secondary specialist MH care ever go inpatient. Something like 92% of people in secondary care get that care in the community - either at their home or by appointment in a clinic. It would be unusual to force someone outside hospital to take treatment. There are community treatment orders, but they tend to be a justice system thing and not a mental health system thing. If you did decide that treatment would help you might want to look at the various guides to the Mental Health Act. (Mind do one; Rethink do one; the Government does a nice guide too.) Then:- Make an advanced directive; work out who your "nearest relative"[1] is (and then change that to someone you trust, and make sure that person knows to always say "I object to the section" to the AMHP if anyone does ever talk about detention under section (although that's really unlikely)); then go see someone. If you think a short form talking therapy would help you should be able to self refer, or you might need to get a referral from your GP to "IAPT" (Improving access to psychological therapies". If you think you would benefit from long form therapy, well, those waiting lists are very long pretty much everywhere. Some places are maybe 6 weeks for assessment and then 18 weeks to start treatment. Other places are much longer. The sooner you start the referral process the sooner you'll get to see someone. You'd go via your GP, then probably to a gateway team. (Although this process varies across the country). Or you could just go privately. That could be expensive (£30 to £50 per session is reasonable). But it gives you some more control. You might want to check professional registration - BACP is often recommended. I'd stll recommend the advance directive stuff and the nearest relative stuff. [1] this is a person defined in law and they have some power, so it's important to have someone that you really trust.
- brador 11y ago
  You're underestimating the effect of coffee dependence. The coffee is an effect, the dependence is a cause. The anxiety, stress and suicidal depression are not normal. Consider, is you life worth the pay you're getting for this? $150 a day to be driven insane? Most would say no, except to self deprecate, which your neurosis predilects you toward. As a Stoic I recommend this: http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/seneca_younger/brev_e.html http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/seneca_younger/brev_e... As a friend, i'd say it's time to see a therapist, doc, or talk it out with someone close or who can help. The truth, what you're doing now is unsustainable and makes you unhappy. Step 1 is acknowledging that. Step 2 is realising you can change anything. Imagine if you'd never chosen this career path. It could have happened, so why stick with it?
  - madaxe_again 11y ago
    Ah, but I'm not an employee - I'm a founder/director, and have 40 people directly dependent on me keeping going for their livelihoods, and thousands (maybe tens of thousands) indirectly dependent. $150 a day isn't far off the mark though. So that's the rub - do I cave and leave a large number of people in the lurch, and deal with the much greater stress and anxiety that that will cause, or do I keep going. There's not really a choice - but there isn't really any such thing as choice, we just fool ourselves into thinking that we make decisions. In reality, shit just happens, and you roll with it. Edit: Oh, on the Shortness of Life is one of my favourite essays - but Seneca was Nero's chief advisor, and never had any particular responsibilities in life, so I take his rather epicurean for a stoic advice with a hefty lump of salt.
    - louthy 11y ago
      With respect it sounds like you need to delegate. I don't know your situation, so apologies if that sounds presumptuous, but as a CTO I have experienced burnout and it's debilitating. In fact I'd say the last two weeks were the first where I've actually felt able to create and be productive since last September - where I felt I was close to a breakdown; but luckily it coincided with a planned holiday which allowed my brain to calm down (at least), but on return from the holiday I had zero productivity and motivation. I switched myself from dev+boss mode into just boss mode and delegated until I felt able to contribute again. I don't know if that would help in your situation?
nommm-nommm 11y ago
You've clearly never been so depressed and anxious you couldn't eat because this is terrible "advice" that is not helpful. "Your hunger should return in a few hours" after cutting out coffee is just plain wrong. Coffee is not the issue here though it may be a good idea to cut out potential appetite suppressants - but don't act like it's that simple. Nor does eating fatty food make food appealing to someone who has trouble eating due to anxiety. Nor does forcing yourself to eat in this situation make you "crash." I've been there, too anxious and depressed to eat, couldn't taste food, puked it up if I tried to force myself to eat. I was able to eat again with the help of a medical doctor, which is what this person needs. This is not as simple as cutting out coffee and eating a pizza, this is a big deal and very, very difficult to get over.

by brador 11y ago

madaxe_again 11y ago

Oh, I'm immaculately dressed - gotta look good for the clients. The coffee is effect, not cause - although I am fully aware I've a raging caffeine addiction. No chance to go to bed, I have conference calls, staff disciplinary meetings, budgets, strategy sessions, and contracts to sort out. As I said, it's OK. I've made my peace with gnawing anxiety, stress and suicidal depression as normal facts of life. It's like being bedfellows with a axe murderer - just fine, so long as you never relax and let your guard down. Sure I'm neurotic, but who isn't?

chris_wot 11y ago
Gnawing anxiety, stress and suicidal depression are not normal. I've been where you are, and I'm really, really concerned. I'm not saying give up work or anything like that, but I'd really urge you to seek out a medical professional if you haven't already. There's a tipping point where things get so bad you won't be able to function, and believe me it's far, far better to get in front of it than to need to get help after that tipping point. Sorry if I sound preachy, I say this out of genuine concern for your well being :-)
- madaxe_again 11y ago
  Ah, but they are - at any rate, they are to me. I'm torn on seeking professional help, as while a therapist I saw last year practically begged me to see a psychoanalyst, I demurred, as I know that in the eyes of a practitioner I'd fall into the "risk of harm to self" category (except I don't self harm - apart from my sustained "lifestyle" choices), and being sectioned and chucked in a facility would be a fate worse than death. A good friend went to the NHS regarding depression about 15 years ago, aged 17. They put her in a facility for 18 months, and gave her a hysterectomy. No way am I going anywhere near that particular hell.
  - pgeorgi 11y ago
    As long as you're functioning (which it seems you are to some sufficient degree), I wouldn't expect drastic measures. To try another angle, do you have a mentor/supervisor? If not, maybe look out for some experienced (potentially retired) manager that you trust. There are also professional services in that space. They may not know your business, but they know the responsibility you feel for keeping things alive. They might be able to help with the culture shift issue you mentioned elsewhere but also with management in general (including "how to make sure that the company doesn't have a bus factor of 1: me") and self-care - one low key strategy in that regard might be to hold you accountable to certain habits that you agreed on (eg. "eat twice a day"). Speaking of which: got something to eat yet?
  - DanBC 11y ago
    I hope you can see that many people are concerned about you. Perhaps that compassion is some comfort? The rest of my post is some advice, but please feel free to ignore it if it's not wanted. You say you would consider treatment, but that you have two worries. 1) That they would detain you under section 2) that they would subject you to treatment against your will 1) Detention under section: There's no chance you'll be detained under section of the mental health act unless you have a definite plan to die by suicide and you intend to act on it soon. And even then it probably wouldn't happen. Currently there just aren't enough beds available, for one thing. The other reason is that most trusts should have moved to a "crisis resolution and home treatment team" model. These teams provide short term interventions and are specifically designed to keep people out of hospital - we know that hospital in-patient stays tend to make things worse, not better. You would do most of your work with a community treatment team with CRHTT help when needed. 2) Forced treatment: Mental health treatment is very different today than it was 15 years ago. The Mental Capacity Act came in in 2005, so it wouldn't be possible for them to detain you under section and take out your womb (if you had one) today unless there were very unusual circumstances. Here's a case where a man who lacked capacity in some areas was deemed to have enough capacity to make a medical decision that resulted in his death: https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2015/10/13/court-of-protection-upholds-the-right-of-a-confused-lonely-man-to-refuse-treatment/ https://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2015/10/13/court-of-protection... That's a gruesome case but I hope it shows that forcing treatment only happens under certain circumstances. There are some powers under MCA and MHA to force medication, but those are not common. Nationally less than 10% of people under secondary specialist MH care ever go inpatient. Something like 92% of people in secondary care get that care in the community - either at their home or by appointment in a clinic. It would be unusual to force someone outside hospital to take treatment. There are community treatment orders, but they tend to be a justice system thing and not a mental health system thing. If you did decide that treatment would help you might want to look at the various guides to the Mental Health Act. (Mind do one; Rethink do one; the Government does a nice guide too.) Then:- Make an advanced directive; work out who your "nearest relative"[1] is (and then change that to someone you trust, and make sure that person knows to always say "I object to the section" to the AMHP if anyone does ever talk about detention under section (although that's really unlikely)); then go see someone. If you think a short form talking therapy would help you should be able to self refer, or you might need to get a referral from your GP to "IAPT" (Improving access to psychological therapies". If you think you would benefit from long form therapy, well, those waiting lists are very long pretty much everywhere. Some places are maybe 6 weeks for assessment and then 18 weeks to start treatment. Other places are much longer. The sooner you start the referral process the sooner you'll get to see someone. You'd go via your GP, then probably to a gateway team. (Although this process varies across the country). Or you could just go privately. That could be expensive (£30 to £50 per session is reasonable). But it gives you some more control. You might want to check professional registration - BACP is often recommended. I'd stll recommend the advance directive stuff and the nearest relative stuff. [1] this is a person defined in law and they have some power, so it's important to have someone that you really trust.
brador 11y ago
You're underestimating the effect of coffee dependence. The coffee is an effect, the dependence is a cause. The anxiety, stress and suicidal depression are not normal. Consider, is you life worth the pay you're getting for this? $150 a day to be driven insane? Most would say no, except to self deprecate, which your neurosis predilects you toward. As a Stoic I recommend this: http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/seneca_younger/brev_e.html http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/seneca_younger/brev_e... As a friend, i'd say it's time to see a therapist, doc, or talk it out with someone close or who can help. The truth, what you're doing now is unsustainable and makes you unhappy. Step 1 is acknowledging that. Step 2 is realising you can change anything. Imagine if you'd never chosen this career path. It could have happened, so why stick with it?
- madaxe_again 11y ago
  Ah, but I'm not an employee - I'm a founder/director, and have 40 people directly dependent on me keeping going for their livelihoods, and thousands (maybe tens of thousands) indirectly dependent. $150 a day isn't far off the mark though. So that's the rub - do I cave and leave a large number of people in the lurch, and deal with the much greater stress and anxiety that that will cause, or do I keep going. There's not really a choice - but there isn't really any such thing as choice, we just fool ourselves into thinking that we make decisions. In reality, shit just happens, and you roll with it. Edit: Oh, on the Shortness of Life is one of my favourite essays - but Seneca was Nero's chief advisor, and never had any particular responsibilities in life, so I take his rather epicurean for a stoic advice with a hefty lump of salt.
  - louthy 11y ago
    With respect it sounds like you need to delegate. I don't know your situation, so apologies if that sounds presumptuous, but as a CTO I have experienced burnout and it's debilitating. In fact I'd say the last two weeks were the first where I've actually felt able to create and be productive since last September - where I felt I was close to a breakdown; but luckily it coincided with a planned holiday which allowed my brain to calm down (at least), but on return from the holiday I had zero productivity and motivation. I switched myself from dev+boss mode into just boss mode and delegated until I felt able to contribute again. I don't know if that would help in your situation?

nommm-nommm 11y ago

You've clearly never been so depressed and anxious you couldn't eat because this is terrible "advice" that is not helpful. "Your hunger should return in a few hours" after cutting out coffee is just plain wrong. Coffee is not the issue here though it may be a good idea to cut out potential appetite suppressants - but don't act like it's that simple. Nor does eating fatty food make food appealing to someone who has trouble eating due to anxiety. Nor does forcing yourself to eat in this situation make you "crash." I've been there, too anxious and depressed to eat, couldn't taste food, puked it up if I tried to force myself to eat. I was able to eat again with the help of a medical doctor, which is what this person needs. This is not as simple as cutting out coffee and eating a pizza, this is a big deal and very, very difficult to get over.