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It's not clear to me what is burnout. Sometimes I'm really exhausted for a few weeks, but I just keep pushing and then it goes away. Is it a bad thing? Could th

by d0m 11y ago

It's not clear to me what is burnout. Sometimes I'm really exhausted for a few weeks, but I just keep pushing and then it goes away. Is it a bad thing? Could that develop into a real burnout..? Would it be preferable to take a few days off when that happens? Personally, when I feel like that, vacations don't feel good at all, so I'd much rather work and get shit done and take vacation when I feel better.

elorant 11y ago
In my case vacation helps in situations like this but only under the condition that I disconnect from everything digital and go out in the nature for a few days, even a weekend. No smartphone, no laptop, no Internet, nothing. Then I feel refreshed.
reitanqild 11y ago
> It's not clear to me what is burnout. For me[0] it just happened when I realized that no matter how hard I worked the company I worked for where going to go bankrupt anyway. I started crying anytime I was alone. Sounds that reminded me about problems at work (e.g. a loose drive belt) would instantly give me pain in my stomach. It took months before I could work in customer facing work again. I was lucky, worked at a farm and completed military (draft) in between and little by little things got better. I sometimes feel really exhausted and unmotivated, going to work only because it is a duty (to work and my family) but I never burned out again. [0]: This was before burnouts was a thing so I never got a diagnosis and I only realized later that I hat hit the wall hard.
- lawrencewu 11y ago
  This sounds like depression, not burnout.
  - smonff 11y ago
    Isn't burnout just a "because-of-work" depression? And is it possible to "burnout" of something else than work?
    - yoplait_ 11y ago
      I thought burnout to be caused by stress and exhaustion. Your mind shuts down to protect itself and anything work related triggers heavy anxiety. In that respect burnout is more akin to PTSD than depression.
      - fapjacks 11y ago
        I unfortunately have PTSD from my service in combat, and have previously burned out at work, before my time in the infantry. These two things are not related nor for that matter very much alike. Burnout -- at least, the burnout that I have experienced -- is manageable to some degree, but I could tell you stories about PTSD that don't sound believable.
        InclinedPlane 11y ago
        Indeed. I've suffered through burnout and recently realized I have PTSD as well (though it's comparatively minor, I didn't realize for the longest time because it was due to childhood emotional trauma not combat or anything like that and I had no clue what the symptoms were or what could cause it). Burnout is a stress disorder, as is PTSD, but trauma is typically not involved. Indeed, the lack of trauma is often why burnout sneaks up on people so easily. At least with PTSD you often have some "big event" that you can track things back to that is something that most people would say "ok, that's something that can be life altering". But you can burnout even if you're working only 20 hours a week at a "fun" job and earning 6 figures a year. Burnout is caused by stress, PTSD is stress and other symptoms caused by trauma. They share some similar symptoms because they both involve stress, but they are not the same. Removing the stress and spending time relaxing usually helps clear up burnout to a substantial degree, but the stress in PTSD is caused by the memory of trauma that happened in the past, and that doesn't go away, it's internal not external. Additionally, PTSD is not only harder to tackle it's also typically more life altering because it has much more severe symptoms (arousal, hypervigilance, constant reliving of the trauma, guilt, being easily startled, etc.)
        nommm-nommm 11y ago
        Seriously. Comparing burnout to PTSD is inaccurate, insulting, and offensive. Post traumatic stress disorder - trauma. Coding is not trauma and can't be compared to trauma.
  - nathan_f77 11y ago
    I think they are very related.
  - kafkaesq 11y ago
    Depression (in this context) would be more perhaps better viewed as part of the family of symptoms of burnout.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
shortoncash 11y ago
I view it as something similar to overtraining in sports (like weight lifting.) It's possible to get "overtrained" on code, I think. Without adequate rest periods between periods in the zone for writing code or running a business, you will, without question, see reduced performance. This reduced performance mode is toxic, and I think, essentially what burnout is.
chris_wot 11y ago
You are in the middle of it right now. I'd suggest you get some help or take some time off because eventually once you hit the tipping point you may find recovering is very difficult. I'm speaking from personal experience here!
swalsh 11y ago
I think burnout can surface in a few ways. Depression is definately huge. Another sign is diminishing returns on work. Spending hours will accomplish virtually nothing, constant mental fatique. Lack of self preservation, maybe skipping laundry and other "less important" activities. And when it gets super extreme a dissosiation of yourself. I got mega burned out once, at its peak... and its hard to describe, but i almost viewed myself in the 3rd person. Like I was playing a video game, and controlled this player, but really nothing I did ultimately mattered because it was just a game. It took me a solid 2 years to get "better". Quitting was the first step, vacations didn't really help me. I'd just keep thinking about work during them :\
whitegrape 11y ago
This explains it pretty well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_burnout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_burnout
marcosdumay 11y ago
The most important think I learned when I got it is how to recognize it. Burnout is really hard to understand when it happens to you. The best symptom I can give is that you become less productive - work never flows anymore, you always have to force yourself into it, all the time, not just at the start/end of a day. It did not feel like exhaustion for me, but like a steady state of helplessness. And if you get this, don't compensate by pushing yourself harder into work (what I did). You'll just make it worse.
InclinedPlane 11y ago
The biggest signs of burnout are when you just don't care anymore and the quality of your work starts to suffer. When you start to dread going into work and have to force yourself to do so by way of avoiding negative consequences (shame, unemployment, not being able to pay the bills, eviction, etc.) When your plans related to work grow increasingly disconnected from reality and haven't seen traction for ages (i.e. you'll quit and start freelancing, win the lottery, turn things around tomorrow and get that promotion, etc.)

by d0m 11y ago

elorant 11y ago

In my case vacation helps in situations like this but only under the condition that I disconnect from everything digital and go out in the nature for a few days, even a weekend. No smartphone, no laptop, no Internet, nothing. Then I feel refreshed.

reitanqild 11y ago

> It's not clear to me what is burnout. For me[0] it just happened when I realized that no matter how hard I worked the company I worked for where going to go bankrupt anyway. I started crying anytime I was alone. Sounds that reminded me about problems at work (e.g. a loose drive belt) would instantly give me pain in my stomach. It took months before I could work in customer facing work again. I was lucky, worked at a farm and completed military (draft) in between and little by little things got better. I sometimes feel really exhausted and unmotivated, going to work only because it is a duty (to work and my family) but I never burned out again. [0]: This was before burnouts was a thing so I never got a diagnosis and I only realized later that I hat hit the wall hard.

lawrencewu 11y ago
This sounds like depression, not burnout.
- smonff 11y ago
  Isn't burnout just a "because-of-work" depression? And is it possible to "burnout" of something else than work?
  - yoplait_ 11y ago
    I thought burnout to be caused by stress and exhaustion. Your mind shuts down to protect itself and anything work related triggers heavy anxiety. In that respect burnout is more akin to PTSD than depression.
    - fapjacks 11y ago
      I unfortunately have PTSD from my service in combat, and have previously burned out at work, before my time in the infantry. These two things are not related nor for that matter very much alike. Burnout -- at least, the burnout that I have experienced -- is manageable to some degree, but I could tell you stories about PTSD that don't sound believable.
      - InclinedPlane 11y ago
        Indeed. I've suffered through burnout and recently realized I have PTSD as well (though it's comparatively minor, I didn't realize for the longest time because it was due to childhood emotional trauma not combat or anything like that and I had no clue what the symptoms were or what could cause it). Burnout is a stress disorder, as is PTSD, but trauma is typically not involved. Indeed, the lack of trauma is often why burnout sneaks up on people so easily. At least with PTSD you often have some "big event" that you can track things back to that is something that most people would say "ok, that's something that can be life altering". But you can burnout even if you're working only 20 hours a week at a "fun" job and earning 6 figures a year. Burnout is caused by stress, PTSD is stress and other symptoms caused by trauma. They share some similar symptoms because they both involve stress, but they are not the same. Removing the stress and spending time relaxing usually helps clear up burnout to a substantial degree, but the stress in PTSD is caused by the memory of trauma that happened in the past, and that doesn't go away, it's internal not external. Additionally, PTSD is not only harder to tackle it's also typically more life altering because it has much more severe symptoms (arousal, hypervigilance, constant reliving of the trauma, guilt, being easily startled, etc.)
      - nommm-nommm 11y ago
        Seriously. Comparing burnout to PTSD is inaccurate, insulting, and offensive. Post traumatic stress disorder - trauma. Coding is not trauma and can't be compared to trauma.
- nathan_f77 11y ago
  I think they are very related.
- kafkaesq 11y ago
  Depression (in this context) would be more perhaps better viewed as part of the family of symptoms of burnout.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

shortoncash 11y ago

I view it as something similar to overtraining in sports (like weight lifting.) It's possible to get "overtrained" on code, I think. Without adequate rest periods between periods in the zone for writing code or running a business, you will, without question, see reduced performance. This reduced performance mode is toxic, and I think, essentially what burnout is.

chris_wot 11y ago

You are in the middle of it right now. I'd suggest you get some help or take some time off because eventually once you hit the tipping point you may find recovering is very difficult. I'm speaking from personal experience here!

swalsh 11y ago

I think burnout can surface in a few ways. Depression is definately huge. Another sign is diminishing returns on work. Spending hours will accomplish virtually nothing, constant mental fatique. Lack of self preservation, maybe skipping laundry and other "less important" activities. And when it gets super extreme a dissosiation of yourself. I got mega burned out once, at its peak... and its hard to describe, but i almost viewed myself in the 3rd person. Like I was playing a video game, and controlled this player, but really nothing I did ultimately mattered because it was just a game. It took me a solid 2 years to get "better". Quitting was the first step, vacations didn't really help me. I'd just keep thinking about work during them :\

whitegrape 11y ago

This explains it pretty well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_burnout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_burnout

marcosdumay 11y ago

The most important think I learned when I got it is how to recognize it. Burnout is really hard to understand when it happens to you. The best symptom I can give is that you become less productive - work never flows anymore, you always have to force yourself into it, all the time, not just at the start/end of a day. It did not feel like exhaustion for me, but like a steady state of helplessness. And if you get this, don't compensate by pushing yourself harder into work (what I did). You'll just make it worse.

InclinedPlane 11y ago

The biggest signs of burnout are when you just don't care anymore and the quality of your work starts to suffer. When you start to dread going into work and have to force yourself to do so by way of avoiding negative consequences (shame, unemployment, not being able to pay the bills, eviction, etc.) When your plans related to work grow increasingly disconnected from reality and haven't seen traction for ages (i.e. you'll quit and start freelancing, win the lottery, turn things around tomorrow and get that promotion, etc.)