5 ms·

I am the founder of OpenERP / Odoo and I can't believe what I just read. Just wrote this mail to RMS, hope he will fix his post: Although we do sell a service

by pinky07 11y ago

I am the founder of OpenERP / Odoo and I can't believe what I just read. Just wrote this mail to RMS, hope he will fix his post: Although we do sell a service to help companies upgrade, there is also an open source tool by the Odoo Community Association to upgrade OpenERP: OpenUpgrade. [1] There is not a single dependency in OpenERP/Odoo against proprietary software or services. We have always fought about any kind of lock-in. Can you fix your post? it's probably not the intention of gnu.org to make FUD against others open source project. I guess you have been misinformed by Luis since he has done a lot of misinformation when he decided to fork to promote his project. Having said that, you should have a look at what we do. We replace thousands of proprietary management software by Odoo, converting whole governments [2], SMEs and big companies as well as NGOs. (60% of the top 10 NGOs are run by Odoo: doctors without borders, red cross, ...) [1] https://doc.therp.nl/openupgrade/ https://doc.therp.nl/openupgrade/ [2] https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/news/portugals-annual-school-teacher-allocation-handled-open-source-erp https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/news/portugals-an...

jordigh 11y ago
> an open source tool I expect rms is gonna say something about being told about "open source", heh. > There is not a single dependency in OpenERP/Odoo against proprietary software or services. So, do your servers just run OpenUpgrade? Are you basically just helping others with the overhead of running OpenUpgrade? Or do you have secret sauce that works stronger, faster, higher than OpenUpgrade?
- ocdtrekkie 11y ago
  RMS may think he is the definition of what is open source and what isn't, that doesn't mean he is or can't be wrong.
  - matthewn 11y ago
    RMS does not think this at all. RMS rejects the term "open source" outright, and is rather strident about it.
  - jordigh 11y ago
    Open source is a synonym for free software coined in 1998 by Christine Petersen, promoted by Eric Raymond and Bruce Perens and funded by Tim O'Reilly as part of a memetic marketing campaign to make people stop thinking about software freedom: http://jordi.inversethought.com/blog/5-things-we-have-forgotten-about-open-source/ http://jordi.inversethought.com/blog/5-things-we-have-forgot... For the most part, it worked. Almost nobody talks about free software, which is what open source was supposed to refer to.
    - ldarby 11y ago
      > Open source is a synonym for free software False, I suggest you read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.en.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.e...
      - jordigh 11y ago
        It was an exacty synonym in 1998. There have been very minor deviations in very obscure licenses most people haven't heard of, so it's a minor quibble. The article you quote acknowledges twice, The two terms describe almost the same category of software, but they stand for views based on fundamentally different values. and “Free software.” “Open source.” If it's the same software (or nearly so), does it matter which name you use? OSI's intent was always to refer to the exact same thing as "free software", just use different language, and thus different arguments in favour of it.
        ldarby 11y ago
        Open Source includes BSD style licenses, which allow distribution in binary form only. Free Software doesn't, that's the difference and I think that difference is large enough to make them not synonyms.
        andreasvc 11y ago
        That is false. Free software includes BSD licenses. You are thinking of copyleft licenses.
  - cyphar 11y ago
    Free software. The open source movement has no deeper ethical reasons for their beliefs.
e12e 11y ago
Hi, I would just like to applaud you (pinky07) for your even and clear responses in this thread. If the quote above is the whole message you sent RMS/FSF, I would suggest you bring in some from your reply below, specifically the part where you quote the bit about "2011", and "we used to do this, but we don't any more (and there was a Free alternative back then too)".
- ahazred8ta 11y ago
  There are some Non-Free modules, which apparently are for use with the proprietary Enterprise Edition. From their legal page: "Odoo 8 is released under version 3 of the GNU Affero General Public License (also known as AGPLv3)." "Odoo 9 Community Edition is licensed under the LGPL version 3 (also known as LGPLv3)." "Odoo 9 Enterprise Edition is licensed under the Odoo Enterprise Edition License v1.0, defined as follows: (...) can only be used ... with a valid Odoo Enterprise subscription ... You may develop Odoo modules based on the Software and distribute them under the license of your choice, provided that it is compatible with the terms of the Odoo Enterprise Edition License (For example: LGPL, MIT, or proprietary licenses similar to this one)."
  - e12e 11y ago
    Yes, but that's not the (controversial) claim in the article, the claim is that you can't upgrade without reverse-engineering the new database schema yourself. The article doesn't really address the issue of a plugin not being available as Free software. While FSF/RMS doesn't particularly like closed source software of any kind (it interferes with the four freedoms), this article deals more with Free software that is hemmed in by various "external" constraints. Data migration being the example referred to. And, which I perhaps was unclear that I was referring to, when I paraphrased: "used to do this, but we don't any more".
ThinkBeat 11y ago
I spent some time looking at the webpage for this project and the links https://www.odoo.com/page/upgrade https://www.odoo.com/page/upgrade (from the front page). seems to me to be exactly what RMS is talking about?

by pinky07 11y ago

jordigh 11y ago

> an open source tool I expect rms is gonna say something about being told about "open source", heh. > There is not a single dependency in OpenERP/Odoo against proprietary software or services. So, do your servers just run OpenUpgrade? Are you basically just helping others with the overhead of running OpenUpgrade? Or do you have secret sauce that works stronger, faster, higher than OpenUpgrade?

ocdtrekkie 11y ago
RMS may think he is the definition of what is open source and what isn't, that doesn't mean he is or can't be wrong.
- matthewn 11y ago
  RMS does not think this at all. RMS rejects the term "open source" outright, and is rather strident about it.
- jordigh 11y ago
  Open source is a synonym for free software coined in 1998 by Christine Petersen, promoted by Eric Raymond and Bruce Perens and funded by Tim O'Reilly as part of a memetic marketing campaign to make people stop thinking about software freedom: http://jordi.inversethought.com/blog/5-things-we-have-forgotten-about-open-source/ http://jordi.inversethought.com/blog/5-things-we-have-forgot... For the most part, it worked. Almost nobody talks about free software, which is what open source was supposed to refer to.
  - ldarby 11y ago
    > Open source is a synonym for free software False, I suggest you read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.en.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.e...
    - jordigh 11y ago
      It was an exacty synonym in 1998. There have been very minor deviations in very obscure licenses most people haven't heard of, so it's a minor quibble. The article you quote acknowledges twice, The two terms describe almost the same category of software, but they stand for views based on fundamentally different values. and “Free software.” “Open source.” If it's the same software (or nearly so), does it matter which name you use? OSI's intent was always to refer to the exact same thing as "free software", just use different language, and thus different arguments in favour of it.
      - ldarby 11y ago
        Open Source includes BSD style licenses, which allow distribution in binary form only. Free Software doesn't, that's the difference and I think that difference is large enough to make them not synonyms.
        andreasvc 11y ago
        That is false. Free software includes BSD licenses. You are thinking of copyleft licenses.
- cyphar 11y ago
  Free software. The open source movement has no deeper ethical reasons for their beliefs.

e12e 11y ago

Hi, I would just like to applaud you (pinky07) for your even and clear responses in this thread. If the quote above is the whole message you sent RMS/FSF, I would suggest you bring in some from your reply below, specifically the part where you quote the bit about "2011", and "we used to do this, but we don't any more (and there was a Free alternative back then too)".

ahazred8ta 11y ago
There are some Non-Free modules, which apparently are for use with the proprietary Enterprise Edition. From their legal page: "Odoo 8 is released under version 3 of the GNU Affero General Public License (also known as AGPLv3)." "Odoo 9 Community Edition is licensed under the LGPL version 3 (also known as LGPLv3)." "Odoo 9 Enterprise Edition is licensed under the Odoo Enterprise Edition License v1.0, defined as follows: (...) can only be used ... with a valid Odoo Enterprise subscription ... You may develop Odoo modules based on the Software and distribute them under the license of your choice, provided that it is compatible with the terms of the Odoo Enterprise Edition License (For example: LGPL, MIT, or proprietary licenses similar to this one)."
- e12e 11y ago
  Yes, but that's not the (controversial) claim in the article, the claim is that you can't upgrade without reverse-engineering the new database schema yourself. The article doesn't really address the issue of a plugin not being available as Free software. While FSF/RMS doesn't particularly like closed source software of any kind (it interferes with the four freedoms), this article deals more with Free software that is hemmed in by various "external" constraints. Data migration being the example referred to. And, which I perhaps was unclear that I was referring to, when I paraphrased: "used to do this, but we don't any more".

ThinkBeat 11y ago

I spent some time looking at the webpage for this project and the links https://www.odoo.com/page/upgrade https://www.odoo.com/page/upgrade (from the front page). seems to me to be exactly what RMS is talking about?