6 ms·

Don't almost all cameras activate their "on" light when being used?

everly 11y ago
It seems reasonable to assume that a bad actor who is able to gain access to a computer's webcam could also override the software that activates said "on" light.
- HappyTypist 11y ago
  Most laptops have them wired in hardware, i.e. you can't power on the webcam without the circuit also lighting up the light as a side effect.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    Some laptop do. Most? I'm not so sure of that.
    - Reedx 11y ago
      Do MacBooks?
      - icebraining 11y ago
        Not the 2008 model. I don't know about newer ones. "iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED" https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/bitstream/handle/1774.2/36569/camera.pdf?sequence=1 https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/bitstream/handle/1774.2...
tonmoy 11y ago
Yeah, but you may not notice it if it takes a snap and then turns off
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  Easy enough to make it stay on for some reasonable number of seconds after each use.
dboreham 11y ago
Yes, as long as someone hasn't figured out how to turn it off.
JohnTHaller 11y ago
Like phones, most laptop webcams have no "on" light. You have to trust that the software you have on your device isn't using the microphone and camera without your permission.
- nyolfen 11y ago
  you and i have very different experience with webcams. i have yet to see a webcam without an indicator led in my life.
  - billhendricksjr 11y ago
    I agree, I can't recall seeing a laptop cam without an indicator led.
  - woodman 11y ago
    I'm pretty sure his meaning was that an "indicator led" is not the same thing as an "on" light. A usb webcam is on as long as the host is providing power, the led is on the honor system - completely implementation dependent. My $2 dynex lights up when accessed in Windows, but I can easily pull images from it in linux without the led coming on - it is driver controlled. It wouldn't be hard to modify the windows driver, or write your own.
  - JohnTHaller 11y ago
    My just retired Acer laptop has no such light. My HP Windows tablet I use with a bluetooth keyboard doesn't either. I checked and my new(ish) XPS 13 does have a tiny light when you use it as does my ASUS 2-in-1. So I'm at 50-50 in my collection. I asked my girlfriend and she doesn't recall there being a light on her Toshiba laptop and she does Skype with it semi-regularly.
  - pbhjpbhj 11y ago
    I recall a blackhat video on YouTube where they could access webcams and disable the LED, having a LED isn't a certain indication unless you know that it's not software activated. I have a Logitech and was able to control the LED using information given at the time ... can't recall the details now sorry. A quick search on security.stackexchange reveals similar info.
colejohnson66 11y ago
A lot of people ask why the light isn't automatically turned on when it's in use. I think the problem is it's easier to turn it on through software than hardware. Plus, if you can treat the webcam as just a microphone, then anytime a device accesses the microphone (games for example), the light would turn on. Not a problem, per se, but the light would be turning on and off a lot if you use a push to talk game. Something that might cause people to make it so they can just turn the light off. Of course, this is all just speculation.
- HappyTypist 11y ago
  Just make it have a 3 second fade time where instead of the LED being at 100% intensity, have it as 75% intensity so it's not distracting by coming on and off.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - colejohnson66 11y ago
    So, make it "breath" like the MacBook charger light? While that's a great idea, good luck getting a company to implement that in hardware. I'm sure some privacy/FOSS focused company will come up with something, but for the majority of companies, it's not cost effective compared to just writing a driver that just tells the webcam to turn the light on and of.
hboon 11y ago
There's this https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/bitstream/handle/1774.2/36569/camera.pdf?sequence=1 https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/bitstream/handle/1774.2... [PDF]

It seems reasonable to assume that a bad actor who is able to gain access to a computer's webcam could also override the software that activates said "on" light.

HappyTypist 11y ago
Most laptops have them wired in hardware, i.e. you can't power on the webcam without the circuit also lighting up the light as a side effect.
- icebraining 11y ago
  Some laptop do. Most? I'm not so sure of that.
  - Reedx 11y ago
    Do MacBooks?
    - icebraining 11y ago
      Not the 2008 model. I don't know about newer ones. "iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED" https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/bitstream/handle/1774.2/36569/camera.pdf?sequence=1 https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/bitstream/handle/1774.2...

tonmoy 11y ago

Yeah, but you may not notice it if it takes a snap and then turns off

PhasmaFelis 11y ago
Easy enough to make it stay on for some reasonable number of seconds after each use.

dboreham 11y ago

Yes, as long as someone hasn't figured out how to turn it off.

JohnTHaller 11y ago

Like phones, most laptop webcams have no "on" light. You have to trust that the software you have on your device isn't using the microphone and camera without your permission.

nyolfen 11y ago
you and i have very different experience with webcams. i have yet to see a webcam without an indicator led in my life.
- billhendricksjr 11y ago
  I agree, I can't recall seeing a laptop cam without an indicator led.
- woodman 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure his meaning was that an "indicator led" is not the same thing as an "on" light. A usb webcam is on as long as the host is providing power, the led is on the honor system - completely implementation dependent. My $2 dynex lights up when accessed in Windows, but I can easily pull images from it in linux without the led coming on - it is driver controlled. It wouldn't be hard to modify the windows driver, or write your own.
- JohnTHaller 11y ago
  My just retired Acer laptop has no such light. My HP Windows tablet I use with a bluetooth keyboard doesn't either. I checked and my new(ish) XPS 13 does have a tiny light when you use it as does my ASUS 2-in-1. So I'm at 50-50 in my collection. I asked my girlfriend and she doesn't recall there being a light on her Toshiba laptop and she does Skype with it semi-regularly.
- pbhjpbhj 11y ago
  I recall a blackhat video on YouTube where they could access webcams and disable the LED, having a LED isn't a certain indication unless you know that it's not software activated. I have a Logitech and was able to control the LED using information given at the time ... can't recall the details now sorry. A quick search on security.stackexchange reveals similar info.

colejohnson66 11y ago

A lot of people ask why the light isn't automatically turned on when it's in use. I think the problem is it's easier to turn it on through software than hardware. Plus, if you can treat the webcam as just a microphone, then anytime a device accesses the microphone (games for example), the light would turn on. Not a problem, per se, but the light would be turning on and off a lot if you use a push to talk game. Something that might cause people to make it so they can just turn the light off. Of course, this is all just speculation.

HappyTypist 11y ago
Just make it have a 3 second fade time where instead of the LED being at 100% intensity, have it as 75% intensity so it's not distracting by coming on and off.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- colejohnson66 11y ago
  So, make it "breath" like the MacBook charger light? While that's a great idea, good luck getting a company to implement that in hardware. I'm sure some privacy/FOSS focused company will come up with something, but for the majority of companies, it's not cost effective compared to just writing a driver that just tells the webcam to turn the light on and of.

hboon 11y ago

There's this https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/bitstream/handle/1774.2/36569/camera.pdf?sequence=1 https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/bitstream/handle/1774.2... [PDF]