3 ms·

Given the L's more modern signaling system, they should be able to squeeze more trains on the tracks than they do during the peak rush hour times. I wonder whet

Given the L's more modern signaling system, they should be able to squeeze more trains on the tracks than they do during the peak rush hour times. I wonder whether they rely on some kind of data that is lagged by a long time period to make those kind of decisions. I'd challenge anyone who contributes to those decisions to ride to Manhattan at 9am and from Manhattan at 6pm for a few weeks.

danharaj 11y ago
I think the L fills a unique enough niche in the subway network that making it run even more will just lead to induced demand. There really ought to be another line between Brooklyn and Manhattan that services parts of the L's route.
- edavison1 11y ago
  There is! JMZ
  - yolesaber 11y ago
    In Brooklyn, yes, sort of. But it doesn't have parity in Manhattan. The J doesn't go uptown and the M is west side only. And the Z? Does that even run anymore?
    - physguy1123 11y ago
      Z runs during rush hours, I believe. I only see it before 9 am and after 5 pm weekdays. Also, you can transfer from the M to a whole bunch of other train lines depending on where you are going. It's not the best, but it isn't terrible either.
- revelation 11y ago
  Induced demand is a good thing for subways!
  - marcosdumay 11y ago
    Induced demand is a good thing for anything. It means people are richer. Yes, for subways that means less cars too. That is an extra (and very big) benefit, but don't think it's bad on other contexts.
strmpnk 11y ago
One tough part of the load handling is that if the L has increased capacity, this could, in some cases, just make congestion worse in many other areas because many people need to make at least 1 transfer for their trips. The tough problem isn't always capacity either. Small disruptions have cascading consequences. This is where I believe a lot of the limitations in service come from since there is rarely a day w/o a single problem. As many others have pointed out in the past, this can largely be traced to the topological properties of the subway lines. The MTA's insistence in growing just a few large bottlenecks rather than disperse them is telling of the problems we'll be living with for decades or centuries longer. At some point, I think the improved bus service initiatives are our only real hope of directly addressing the transportation problems in NYC. It might seem ludicrous in Manhattan but it certainly has its place and in the other boroughs, it can be a huge improvement when line selection is limited.
- grkvlt 11y ago
  > largely be traced to the topological properties of the subway lines See 'A Subway Named Mobius' [1][2] for some of the problems this might cause in the future! [1] http://www.iblist.com/book12352.htm http://www.iblist.com/book12352.htm [2] http://www.rioranchomathcamp.com/Topology/SubwayNamedMobius.pdf http://www.rioranchomathcamp.com/Topology/SubwayNamedMobius....
justinph 11y ago
The lack of tail tracks at 8th avenue and the current electrical system are the current limitations. They could do more, but they can't turn the trains around fast enough or give enough power to more densely pack trains.

danharaj 11y ago

I think the L fills a unique enough niche in the subway network that making it run even more will just lead to induced demand. There really ought to be another line between Brooklyn and Manhattan that services parts of the L's route.

edavison1 11y ago
There is! JMZ
- yolesaber 11y ago
  In Brooklyn, yes, sort of. But it doesn't have parity in Manhattan. The J doesn't go uptown and the M is west side only. And the Z? Does that even run anymore?
  - physguy1123 11y ago
    Z runs during rush hours, I believe. I only see it before 9 am and after 5 pm weekdays. Also, you can transfer from the M to a whole bunch of other train lines depending on where you are going. It's not the best, but it isn't terrible either.
revelation 11y ago
Induced demand is a good thing for subways!
- marcosdumay 11y ago
  Induced demand is a good thing for anything. It means people are richer. Yes, for subways that means less cars too. That is an extra (and very big) benefit, but don't think it's bad on other contexts.

strmpnk 11y ago

One tough part of the load handling is that if the L has increased capacity, this could, in some cases, just make congestion worse in many other areas because many people need to make at least 1 transfer for their trips. The tough problem isn't always capacity either. Small disruptions have cascading consequences. This is where I believe a lot of the limitations in service come from since there is rarely a day w/o a single problem. As many others have pointed out in the past, this can largely be traced to the topological properties of the subway lines. The MTA's insistence in growing just a few large bottlenecks rather than disperse them is telling of the problems we'll be living with for decades or centuries longer. At some point, I think the improved bus service initiatives are our only real hope of directly addressing the transportation problems in NYC. It might seem ludicrous in Manhattan but it certainly has its place and in the other boroughs, it can be a huge improvement when line selection is limited.

grkvlt 11y ago
> largely be traced to the topological properties of the subway lines See 'A Subway Named Mobius' [1][2] for some of the problems this might cause in the future! [1] http://www.iblist.com/book12352.htm http://www.iblist.com/book12352.htm [2] http://www.rioranchomathcamp.com/Topology/SubwayNamedMobius.pdf http://www.rioranchomathcamp.com/Topology/SubwayNamedMobius....

justinph 11y ago

The lack of tail tracks at 8th avenue and the current electrical system are the current limitations. They could do more, but they can't turn the trains around fast enough or give enough power to more densely pack trains.