7 ms·

The Silicon Valley of Transylvania

138 points by mirceagoia 10y ago

madaxe_again 10y ago
This is so bubble-written it's not funny. Romania is a country where a large chunk of the populace get around by cart and donkey, where post-communist corruption is rife, where decades on they still can't decide what to do with the half built palace that occupies half of Bucharest, where gangsters run most of the hospitality industry and god knows what else. It's a chicken and egg problem, of course, as enterprise will bring wealth (in theory) which in turn will solve some of Romania's more immediate woes, but it's still a tiny tiny niche in a very poor country. Their only saving psychological grace is that Moldova are next door, and they make anyone look rich. Edit: on a Re-read, this comes across as horribly negative. I'm a big fan of Romania and its prospects - what I failed to mention is that I met a lot of intelligent, interesting and passionate younger people - and they will be the ones that drag Romania solidly into a functioning state - but the reality is that there's a lot of work to do.
- XCSme 10y ago
  When have you last been in Romania?
- aorth 10y ago
  There are two sides to every coin. I think both Techcrunch and your assessments are valid. It would not be hard to paint the USA as a totalitarian state run by organized crime and where half of the people live under some acceptable standard of living.
  - joesmo 10y ago
    How else would you paint it?
- mariusmg 10y ago
  Dude, are you from Hungary ? :)
  - mnyary 10y ago
    Please, don't do this!
- marinabercea 10y ago
  I live in Romania. For potential readers: this comment's content is a gross overstatement and does not reflect reality. For example, over 50% of the population lives in an urban environment (see the CIA Romania Factbook which is very up to date). Even so, it would be wrong to assume that just because some of the country's citizens live in the countryside, they 'get around by cart and donkey'. Also, for the sake of accuracy, where such transportation is used, horses would be much more common as opposed to donkeys. As for the 'half built palace that occupies half of Bucharest', I presume you're referring to the Palace of the Parliament, with an area of 365000 m2. The urban area of Bucharest occupies 228 km2, or 228000000 m2, significantly more than the area of the building you mentioned. Edit: I double checked some data in regards to the Palace of the Parliament, the FLOOR AREA is indeed 365000 m2, but since the building has multiple floors, the actual occupied area is smaller. Check the Technical Details on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_the_Parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_the_Parliament
  - madaxe_again 10y ago
    To be fair, I was last there six years ago, spent most of my time travelling through the the countryside, a few weeks in Cluj, visited friends in Sibiu, and got robbed when I went through Bucharest on my way to Moldova. So yes, my view is far less accurate than yours, as it's from about six weeks six years ago - but the only place I saw comparable levels of overt corruption was Kyrgyzstan, and I've visited most of the ex-ussr and associated states. This is no judgment on the Romanian or Kyrgyz peoples - this is a sad fact of life after economic oppression - corruption becomes a way of life.
    - oblio 10y ago
      I'm sorry for your personal experience, but you should be able to realize that traumatic personal experiences can cloud your opinion about a very complex topic such as a whole country. I visited the US and I wasn't really impressed, for example. But I wouldn't judge the US based on just what I saw in a couple of weeks, considering what I've read and seen about it. Oh, and regarding corruption: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Anticorruption_Directorate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Anticorruption_Dire...
- _fizz_buzz_ 10y ago
  I think you are right that the article is a bit "bubble-written". But I think your comment is a lot further from the truth than the article. The biggest asset that Romania has is its talent pool. I am fairly convinced that Romania will follow Estonia's economic trajectory. The starting conditions are quite similar.
- oblio 10y ago
  Man, so much angst. Did you read the whole article? > Still, as many have noted, Romania has some big hurdles to overcome to truly become a tech hub. > Access to capital is slim. The risk-taking culture is nascent. > The government bureaucracy is strong and legislation that supports startups is lacking. > Yet every shift has to begin somewhere, and from what we see, there’s one afoot in Romania. They admit that not everything is perfect in the friendly article.
- davidiach 10y ago
  This is an exaggeration. 1. Only a tiny chunk of the population "get around by cart and donkey" and that's mostly in rural areas. Romania has around 314 cars per 1000 inhabitants. For comparison the UK has 519, Sweden 520, Mexico 275, Brazil 249, Ukraine 220, Moldova 156 and China 128. [1] 2. Corruption is one of the most discussed topics in Romania, but in my opinion it is over-rated. There is virtually no violent corruption, most of the existing corruption has to do government contracts or bribing of government officials. 3. Yeah, the Palace of the Parliament sucks. But it's one of the biggest tourist attractions right now in Bucharest. 4. "gangsters run most of the hospitality industry" - actually most of it is run by large foreign companies or small "mom and pop" entrepreneurs. No, Romania is not building the next "Silicon Valley", but it does have a vibrant IT community that is increasingly involved in creating technology startups and is developing in the right direction. ---------------------------------------------------- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_...
- sndean 10y ago
  > very poor country. One upside, from an outsider point-of-view, is that an apartment in Bucharest goes for about the same amount as a downpayment for an apartment in London. For that reason alone, I can imagine some Europeans (especially Londoners) would seriously consider giving up their 400 sqft place and going to Romania to own three large apartments. Or at least I would.
  - prodmerc 10y ago
    Yeah renting good apartments and houses is really cheap. But imho try to avoid Bucharest, which is the London of Romania, that is, a bit of an overcrowded shithole. Any other major city is better (except maybe Iasi :D)...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
ddalex 10y ago
This is a nice summary of what's going on - to get to the gist of it, Romania has great technical talent, coming out of decent technical schools. What severely lacks in Romania, in my view: a). the business environment; the internal demand isn't enough to support starting and growing business on the local market; building products for external markets from get-go is difficult. This leads to: b). the business talent; the number of big companies (in the sense of growing into an international market) founded in Romania and managed by Romanian business people can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Leading to: c). the product talent; since there is no big demand for products in the local market, there is no way to grow local product designers - the people that can and want to design and build a product just find it easier to emigrate, depleting the already small pool of available talent. All of this leads to companies coming into the country just for technical talent, which is easily employed as outsourcing contractors, and keep the self-perpetuating circle of the tech scene being driven by outsourcing. And this effect is also visible at startup level, where the Romanian-funded startups often have the headquarters, and product designers in US or Canada, and the technical talent in Bucharest or Cluj. I have no idea how to fix this problem, of even if it is a problem in the first place - I feel that as the local economy matures, niches for specific targeted products will appear, facilitating the development of locally-designed products built by local companies. But starting startups based in Romania targeting foreign markets is still an uphill battle versus companies local to those foreign markets.
- cristianpascu 10y ago
  Very good points! c) goes hand in hand with two other things: many managers are former programmers with little or no appreciation for good product and good UX. And second, romanian designers are still pretty much artists, drawing candy stuff. I know some very good designers with good UX skills, but they are a minority. Only where you have good managers, good devs, and good designers thinking solely about the people using the product, you'll have a community that gives birth to real software professionals. We're still in the age of Angular v React, Dawn of Outsourcing.
- debacle 10y ago
  A savvy product person (maybe with a foreign network) could see this as a massive opportunity. Eastern Europeans are lauded for their technical ability, and have been for some time.
voodootrucker 10y ago
In light of the actions of the US over the last decade regarding interception of communication, undermining of encryption, intellectual property laws, and promiscuous prosecutions, I don't see any way for it to be the next hotbed of technological innovation.
spriggan3 10y ago
Looks like Techcrunch needs new opportunities to empty founders pockets with its "conferences", Romania here they come ...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
dataker 10y ago
Like other eastern european countries, Romanians suffer greatly with poor branding and "western-centrism". While in Germany, I watched clear demonstrations of discrimination towards Romanians in a tech startup. They really had to prove themselves. Although extremelly talented, "jokes" would always fly around the "gypsy stereotype". That being said, as a startup founder, I'd assume it'd be much harder to raise money from an UK VC firm.
- disposeofnick9 10y ago
  Yup. One person's stupidity is another wise, entrepreneur's money-making opportunity... hire LGBTQ, disabled, ex-cons, neurodiversity, anyone whom typical businesses "reject," not just for PR reasons but to win bigger with untapped capabilities others cannot see or manage.
rusanu 10y ago
I worked +10 years in Redmond, WA as a microsoftie and came back to Romania in 2012. Since March 2016 I quit Microsoft and focused 100% on my startup, DBHistory.com. I now rent space and work at a local tech incubator www.techhub.com. I wanted to start with this to to put my opinion in perspective. While the article is bubble-gum and is clear PR, the point it makes is a valid one. Compared even to US, today Romania has a very active entrepreneurship mindset. Small businesses are created all the time, some thrive, some go under. Despite the locals skepticism, I see the economy here as effervescent, with a growth rate still north of 3% (for Europe, this is not bad). The overwhelming majority of this entrepreneurship is not in IT. But this article is specific to IT, and I do not see the Romanian IT anywhere near its potential. This is because the local IT is almost entirely focused on outsourcing, not on original development. Big companies have significant presence here (Electronic Arts, Adobe, Intel, Microsoft each have ~200,300 dev offices here, although not everything is core R&D ). Original Romania IT has a very strong presence in anti-virus (for some reason it seems a lot of local IT youth are experts on exploits...). Many young IT Romanians choose to go abroad (in Microsoft Romanians are the 4th largest foreign community, after Indians/Chinese/Russians). Since I've returned I've been approached several times by US/Western Europe based entrepreneurs who desired to move development to Romania and open office here, solely for cost reasons. Purely for outsourcing, this is my 2c: - Romania has significant talent pool - EU membership (with all tax/export/legislation alignment that entails) - Good spoken English is pretty much universal, German/French are common - Political stability (governing parties rotated power several times in past 20 years, peacefully) - Cost is higher than one would expect. Bucharest/Cluj/Timisoara all have high cost (office) and salaries are higher than some neighbors. If the outsourcing decision is purely cost driven then Ukraine has a better deal for you, with a similar talent pool. But I would like to see a lot more IT original development coming out from Romania. The article gives some examples, like LiveRail, but overall I see a lot more outsourcing done here than original development. I'm glad projects like cloudhero.io originate here.
- mirceagoia 10y ago
  Hey, you can register your startup with RomanianStartups.com :). It's free.
userulluipeste 10y ago
"the local higher education system is plagued by corruption" "Education is underfunded and affected by a profound brain drain." (notalaser) This is so true, sadly! I can imagine the reason Tech Crunch is trying to light the stage in rose colors but it's good to keep your expectations realistic. Don't get me wrong, the Romanian higher education was very self-exigent and managed to spit out high quality specialists for quite a while even after the fall of the Iron Curtain. The good teachers however, were being hunted like crazy. Only in those several years of my Computer Engineering study I've had to witness the departure of half of the professor assistants that were teaching me at one point or another. The good half. On graduation only a small minority of my fellow student colleagues enjoyed meaningful support from their mentors. For most of us the mentorship was only a protocolar procedure, and the quality of our licence projects were being dictated only by our auto-didactic abilities - very far from what I heard University to be once upon a time!
ryanmarsh 10y ago
> The labor market research firm Brainspotting reports that Romania, with just 20 million people, ranks in the top 10 globally in number of certified IT specialists What exactly is a "certified IT specialist"?
- scribu 10y ago
  Presumably someone who has a BS in Computer Science or related field.
  - johansch 10y ago
    No, in this context it means Microsoft/Cisco etc certifications. Unfortunately people with these tend to be worse than the people without them so I'm not sure why this is even brought up.
tlogan 10y ago
Since I'm from that part of the world and traveling a lot there, here is my take on this: - All eastern European countries have a great talent but that talent is created during socialist area (free education, focus on math, etc.). However, quality of new talent is not so great. If somebody is good, they go to work in Germany / Austria / Switzerland. - Work and business habits are terrible. It seems like they always try to scam you. - Society really looks down on entrepreneurship. To be honest, societies in Montenegro, Hercegovina, Romania and Albania are a little more open to entrepreneurship than others but.. - Laws are very unfriendly for small business / entrepreneurship. Basically, one needs to break the law in order to run the business. In short, I'm not so optimistic :(
- disposeofnick9 10y ago
  For multinational companies, Belarus has been a solid country for sourcing technical talent. (Some work remote while others get visas... being flexible as an employer retains the best people longer.)
crocozaurus 10y ago
I am from Cluj, Romania and I am a developer for some years now. I really know how things are in the IT sector in Cluj and I really know how my country stacks up against others. The article is not accurate and highlights mostly positive aspects. The programmers are decent and hard working, but nothing spectacular going on. They might not be your first pick when you want innovation. We are mostly self-taught ( thanks DoD for the Internet), and contrast the poor courses that are held at the Romanian universities. There are programmers that range from mediocre to good. Comparing to colleagues from London, or the US, we are not as good. They know more things and are more specialized. They work at a faster pace and work on hard problems. We make decent work though, but nothing mind blowing. If you want guys that can innovate, better look elsewhere like: the US, UK, Finland, Holland and other Nordic countries. Here is the factual truth about Romania. It is a country of huge contrast. It has really good results in math and compute science Olympiads, but it is at the very bottom at math performance for the population at large. See PISA test results. 40 % of Romanians do not know basic and simple concepts from math. 40 % also are functional illiterates. This is much worse than the US. At the peak level We seem to be very good at IT, yet there is virtually not an algorithm or an innovation that bears a Romanian's name. You learn about Dijkstra, Turing, Fermat and Leibniz, but not Popescu or Iliescu. You hear about how good we are, but no Romanian University is within the top 500 at the computer science section. There is a lot of impostors in our universities and plagiarism is high. The dean of the Technical University of Cluj plagiarized courses from Berkeley and presents them as his own. Romania has one of the largest internet speed, but only half of the country is connected. And within those that do use it, the vast majority are on Facebook and Youtube. Telekom just published that Romania has the poorest internet usage when it comes to business related activity. Half of the population still lives in the rural areas, and the conditions are horrible. Over half of Romanian schools do not have running tap water or a decent toilet with flushing water. Mostly are again in the rural areas. But also in the surrounding regions of Cluj, and other major cities, there are entire neighborhoods that do not have access to the sewage network. And they are part of the city of Cluj, not other entities. Romania is featured as a poor country by World Vision, which needs western support. It is listed among Albania, Georgia and a host of African countries. The orphanage footage of Romania in the 90' comes to mind. And the list shocking contrast goes on and on.
- 10y ago
janlukacs 10y ago
I'm from Romania and i run a product business in the western part of the country (Oradea). The article is a pr piece, but one that the .ro tech industry deserves. There's definitely good momentum and we need to use it. The biggest long term risk imho is the outsourcing industry and it's effects. We started out in outsourcing too but shifted to product in 2008 and managed to build a profitable business selling globally. I'm seeing more and more people interested in making the shift or jumping right into product, however we lack good product managers, marketing and funding. Overall i'm optimistic and i think we have lots to show if we focus our energies in the right direction.
andrei512 10y ago
I'm from Cluj! :) I'm working on We Heart Swift - a site dedicated to Swift - over 50.000 people visit it every month. Our main product teaches you how to code in one month. Its similar to codecademy but in the form of mac app https://www.weheartswift.com/swift-programming-scratch-100-exercises/ https://www.weheartswift.com/swift-programming-scratch-100-e...
jkraker 10y ago
I wish people would stop using that phrasing: "The Silicon Valley of" whatever.
novaleaf 10y ago
anecdote: my SaaS has about 50 customers, 2 of which are from Romania. That's quite a high representation!

138 points by mirceagoia 10y ago

This is so bubble-written it's not funny. Romania is a country where a large chunk of the populace get around by cart and donkey, where post-communist corruption is rife, where decades on they still can't decide what to do with the half built palace that occupies half of Bucharest, where gangsters run most of the hospitality industry and god knows what else. It's a chicken and egg problem, of course, as enterprise will bring wealth (in theory) which in turn will solve some of Romania's more immediate woes, but it's still a tiny tiny niche in a very poor country. Their only saving psychological grace is that Moldova are next door, and they make anyone look rich. Edit: on a Re-read, this comes across as horribly negative. I'm a big fan of Romania and its prospects - what I failed to mention is that I met a lot of intelligent, interesting and passionate younger people - and they will be the ones that drag Romania solidly into a functioning state - but the reality is that there's a lot of work to do.

XCSme 10y ago
When have you last been in Romania?
aorth 10y ago
There are two sides to every coin. I think both Techcrunch and your assessments are valid. It would not be hard to paint the USA as a totalitarian state run by organized crime and where half of the people live under some acceptable standard of living.
- joesmo 10y ago
  How else would you paint it?
mariusmg 10y ago
Dude, are you from Hungary ? :)
- mnyary 10y ago
  Please, don't do this!
marinabercea 10y ago
I live in Romania. For potential readers: this comment's content is a gross overstatement and does not reflect reality. For example, over 50% of the population lives in an urban environment (see the CIA Romania Factbook which is very up to date). Even so, it would be wrong to assume that just because some of the country's citizens live in the countryside, they 'get around by cart and donkey'. Also, for the sake of accuracy, where such transportation is used, horses would be much more common as opposed to donkeys. As for the 'half built palace that occupies half of Bucharest', I presume you're referring to the Palace of the Parliament, with an area of 365000 m2. The urban area of Bucharest occupies 228 km2, or 228000000 m2, significantly more than the area of the building you mentioned. Edit: I double checked some data in regards to the Palace of the Parliament, the FLOOR AREA is indeed 365000 m2, but since the building has multiple floors, the actual occupied area is smaller. Check the Technical Details on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_the_Parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_the_Parliament
- madaxe_again 10y ago
  To be fair, I was last there six years ago, spent most of my time travelling through the the countryside, a few weeks in Cluj, visited friends in Sibiu, and got robbed when I went through Bucharest on my way to Moldova. So yes, my view is far less accurate than yours, as it's from about six weeks six years ago - but the only place I saw comparable levels of overt corruption was Kyrgyzstan, and I've visited most of the ex-ussr and associated states. This is no judgment on the Romanian or Kyrgyz peoples - this is a sad fact of life after economic oppression - corruption becomes a way of life.
  - oblio 10y ago
    I'm sorry for your personal experience, but you should be able to realize that traumatic personal experiences can cloud your opinion about a very complex topic such as a whole country. I visited the US and I wasn't really impressed, for example. But I wouldn't judge the US based on just what I saw in a couple of weeks, considering what I've read and seen about it. Oh, and regarding corruption: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Anticorruption_Directorate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Anticorruption_Dire...
_fizz_buzz_ 10y ago
I think you are right that the article is a bit "bubble-written". But I think your comment is a lot further from the truth than the article. The biggest asset that Romania has is its talent pool. I am fairly convinced that Romania will follow Estonia's economic trajectory. The starting conditions are quite similar.
oblio 10y ago
Man, so much angst. Did you read the whole article? > Still, as many have noted, Romania has some big hurdles to overcome to truly become a tech hub. > Access to capital is slim. The risk-taking culture is nascent. > The government bureaucracy is strong and legislation that supports startups is lacking. > Yet every shift has to begin somewhere, and from what we see, there’s one afoot in Romania. They admit that not everything is perfect in the friendly article.
davidiach 10y ago
This is an exaggeration. 1. Only a tiny chunk of the population "get around by cart and donkey" and that's mostly in rural areas. Romania has around 314 cars per 1000 inhabitants. For comparison the UK has 519, Sweden 520, Mexico 275, Brazil 249, Ukraine 220, Moldova 156 and China 128. [1] 2. Corruption is one of the most discussed topics in Romania, but in my opinion it is over-rated. There is virtually no violent corruption, most of the existing corruption has to do government contracts or bribing of government officials. 3. Yeah, the Palace of the Parliament sucks. But it's one of the biggest tourist attractions right now in Bucharest. 4. "gangsters run most of the hospitality industry" - actually most of it is run by large foreign companies or small "mom and pop" entrepreneurs. No, Romania is not building the next "Silicon Valley", but it does have a vibrant IT community that is increasingly involved in creating technology startups and is developing in the right direction. ---------------------------------------------------- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_...
sndean 10y ago
> very poor country. One upside, from an outsider point-of-view, is that an apartment in Bucharest goes for about the same amount as a downpayment for an apartment in London. For that reason alone, I can imagine some Europeans (especially Londoners) would seriously consider giving up their 400 sqft place and going to Romania to own three large apartments. Or at least I would.
- prodmerc 10y ago
  Yeah renting good apartments and houses is really cheap. But imho try to avoid Bucharest, which is the London of Romania, that is, a bit of an overcrowded shithole. Any other major city is better (except maybe Iasi :D)...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

ddalex 10y ago

This is a nice summary of what's going on - to get to the gist of it, Romania has great technical talent, coming out of decent technical schools. What severely lacks in Romania, in my view: a). the business environment; the internal demand isn't enough to support starting and growing business on the local market; building products for external markets from get-go is difficult. This leads to: b). the business talent; the number of big companies (in the sense of growing into an international market) founded in Romania and managed by Romanian business people can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Leading to: c). the product talent; since there is no big demand for products in the local market, there is no way to grow local product designers - the people that can and want to design and build a product just find it easier to emigrate, depleting the already small pool of available talent. All of this leads to companies coming into the country just for technical talent, which is easily employed as outsourcing contractors, and keep the self-perpetuating circle of the tech scene being driven by outsourcing. And this effect is also visible at startup level, where the Romanian-funded startups often have the headquarters, and product designers in US or Canada, and the technical talent in Bucharest or Cluj. I have no idea how to fix this problem, of even if it is a problem in the first place - I feel that as the local economy matures, niches for specific targeted products will appear, facilitating the development of locally-designed products built by local companies. But starting startups based in Romania targeting foreign markets is still an uphill battle versus companies local to those foreign markets.

cristianpascu 10y ago
Very good points! c) goes hand in hand with two other things: many managers are former programmers with little or no appreciation for good product and good UX. And second, romanian designers are still pretty much artists, drawing candy stuff. I know some very good designers with good UX skills, but they are a minority. Only where you have good managers, good devs, and good designers thinking solely about the people using the product, you'll have a community that gives birth to real software professionals. We're still in the age of Angular v React, Dawn of Outsourcing.
debacle 10y ago
A savvy product person (maybe with a foreign network) could see this as a massive opportunity. Eastern Europeans are lauded for their technical ability, and have been for some time.

voodootrucker 10y ago

In light of the actions of the US over the last decade regarding interception of communication, undermining of encryption, intellectual property laws, and promiscuous prosecutions, I don't see any way for it to be the next hotbed of technological innovation.

spriggan3 10y ago

Looks like Techcrunch needs new opportunities to empty founders pockets with its "conferences", Romania here they come ...

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

dataker 10y ago

Like other eastern european countries, Romanians suffer greatly with poor branding and "western-centrism". While in Germany, I watched clear demonstrations of discrimination towards Romanians in a tech startup. They really had to prove themselves. Although extremelly talented, "jokes" would always fly around the "gypsy stereotype". That being said, as a startup founder, I'd assume it'd be much harder to raise money from an UK VC firm.

disposeofnick9 10y ago
Yup. One person's stupidity is another wise, entrepreneur's money-making opportunity... hire LGBTQ, disabled, ex-cons, neurodiversity, anyone whom typical businesses "reject," not just for PR reasons but to win bigger with untapped capabilities others cannot see or manage.

rusanu 10y ago

I worked +10 years in Redmond, WA as a microsoftie and came back to Romania in 2012. Since March 2016 I quit Microsoft and focused 100% on my startup, DBHistory.com. I now rent space and work at a local tech incubator www.techhub.com. I wanted to start with this to to put my opinion in perspective. While the article is bubble-gum and is clear PR, the point it makes is a valid one. Compared even to US, today Romania has a very active entrepreneurship mindset. Small businesses are created all the time, some thrive, some go under. Despite the locals skepticism, I see the economy here as effervescent, with a growth rate still north of 3% (for Europe, this is not bad). The overwhelming majority of this entrepreneurship is not in IT. But this article is specific to IT, and I do not see the Romanian IT anywhere near its potential. This is because the local IT is almost entirely focused on outsourcing, not on original development. Big companies have significant presence here (Electronic Arts, Adobe, Intel, Microsoft each have ~200,300 dev offices here, although not everything is core R&D ). Original Romania IT has a very strong presence in anti-virus (for some reason it seems a lot of local IT youth are experts on exploits...). Many young IT Romanians choose to go abroad (in Microsoft Romanians are the 4th largest foreign community, after Indians/Chinese/Russians). Since I've returned I've been approached several times by US/Western Europe based entrepreneurs who desired to move development to Romania and open office here, solely for cost reasons. Purely for outsourcing, this is my 2c: - Romania has significant talent pool - EU membership (with all tax/export/legislation alignment that entails) - Good spoken English is pretty much universal, German/French are common - Political stability (governing parties rotated power several times in past 20 years, peacefully) - Cost is higher than one would expect. Bucharest/Cluj/Timisoara all have high cost (office) and salaries are higher than some neighbors. If the outsourcing decision is purely cost driven then Ukraine has a better deal for you, with a similar talent pool. But I would like to see a lot more IT original development coming out from Romania. The article gives some examples, like LiveRail, but overall I see a lot more outsourcing done here than original development. I'm glad projects like cloudhero.io originate here.

mirceagoia 10y ago
Hey, you can register your startup with RomanianStartups.com :). It's free.

userulluipeste 10y ago

"the local higher education system is plagued by corruption" "Education is underfunded and affected by a profound brain drain." (notalaser) This is so true, sadly! I can imagine the reason Tech Crunch is trying to light the stage in rose colors but it's good to keep your expectations realistic. Don't get me wrong, the Romanian higher education was very self-exigent and managed to spit out high quality specialists for quite a while even after the fall of the Iron Curtain. The good teachers however, were being hunted like crazy. Only in those several years of my Computer Engineering study I've had to witness the departure of half of the professor assistants that were teaching me at one point or another. The good half. On graduation only a small minority of my fellow student colleagues enjoyed meaningful support from their mentors. For most of us the mentorship was only a protocolar procedure, and the quality of our licence projects were being dictated only by our auto-didactic abilities - very far from what I heard University to be once upon a time!

ryanmarsh 10y ago

> The labor market research firm Brainspotting reports that Romania, with just 20 million people, ranks in the top 10 globally in number of certified IT specialists What exactly is a "certified IT specialist"?

scribu 10y ago
Presumably someone who has a BS in Computer Science or related field.
- johansch 10y ago
  No, in this context it means Microsoft/Cisco etc certifications. Unfortunately people with these tend to be worse than the people without them so I'm not sure why this is even brought up.

tlogan 10y ago

Since I'm from that part of the world and traveling a lot there, here is my take on this: - All eastern European countries have a great talent but that talent is created during socialist area (free education, focus on math, etc.). However, quality of new talent is not so great. If somebody is good, they go to work in Germany / Austria / Switzerland. - Work and business habits are terrible. It seems like they always try to scam you. - Society really looks down on entrepreneurship. To be honest, societies in Montenegro, Hercegovina, Romania and Albania are a little more open to entrepreneurship than others but.. - Laws are very unfriendly for small business / entrepreneurship. Basically, one needs to break the law in order to run the business. In short, I'm not so optimistic :(

disposeofnick9 10y ago
For multinational companies, Belarus has been a solid country for sourcing technical talent. (Some work remote while others get visas... being flexible as an employer retains the best people longer.)

crocozaurus 10y ago

I am from Cluj, Romania and I am a developer for some years now. I really know how things are in the IT sector in Cluj and I really know how my country stacks up against others. The article is not accurate and highlights mostly positive aspects. The programmers are decent and hard working, but nothing spectacular going on. They might not be your first pick when you want innovation. We are mostly self-taught ( thanks DoD for the Internet), and contrast the poor courses that are held at the Romanian universities. There are programmers that range from mediocre to good. Comparing to colleagues from London, or the US, we are not as good. They know more things and are more specialized. They work at a faster pace and work on hard problems. We make decent work though, but nothing mind blowing. If you want guys that can innovate, better look elsewhere like: the US, UK, Finland, Holland and other Nordic countries. Here is the factual truth about Romania. It is a country of huge contrast. It has really good results in math and compute science Olympiads, but it is at the very bottom at math performance for the population at large. See PISA test results. 40 % of Romanians do not know basic and simple concepts from math. 40 % also are functional illiterates. This is much worse than the US. At the peak level We seem to be very good at IT, yet there is virtually not an algorithm or an innovation that bears a Romanian's name. You learn about Dijkstra, Turing, Fermat and Leibniz, but not Popescu or Iliescu. You hear about how good we are, but no Romanian University is within the top 500 at the computer science section. There is a lot of impostors in our universities and plagiarism is high. The dean of the Technical University of Cluj plagiarized courses from Berkeley and presents them as his own. Romania has one of the largest internet speed, but only half of the country is connected. And within those that do use it, the vast majority are on Facebook and Youtube. Telekom just published that Romania has the poorest internet usage when it comes to business related activity. Half of the population still lives in the rural areas, and the conditions are horrible. Over half of Romanian schools do not have running tap water or a decent toilet with flushing water. Mostly are again in the rural areas. But also in the surrounding regions of Cluj, and other major cities, there are entire neighborhoods that do not have access to the sewage network. And they are part of the city of Cluj, not other entities. Romania is featured as a poor country by World Vision, which needs western support. It is listed among Albania, Georgia and a host of African countries. The orphanage footage of Romania in the 90' comes to mind. And the list shocking contrast goes on and on.

10y ago

janlukacs 10y ago

I'm from Romania and i run a product business in the western part of the country (Oradea). The article is a pr piece, but one that the .ro tech industry deserves. There's definitely good momentum and we need to use it. The biggest long term risk imho is the outsourcing industry and it's effects. We started out in outsourcing too but shifted to product in 2008 and managed to build a profitable business selling globally. I'm seeing more and more people interested in making the shift or jumping right into product, however we lack good product managers, marketing and funding. Overall i'm optimistic and i think we have lots to show if we focus our energies in the right direction.

andrei512 10y ago

I'm from Cluj! :) I'm working on We Heart Swift - a site dedicated to Swift - over 50.000 people visit it every month. Our main product teaches you how to code in one month. Its similar to codecademy but in the form of mac app https://www.weheartswift.com/swift-programming-scratch-100-exercises/ https://www.weheartswift.com/swift-programming-scratch-100-e...

jkraker 10y ago

I wish people would stop using that phrasing: "The Silicon Valley of" whatever.

novaleaf 10y ago

anecdote: my SaaS has about 50 customers, 2 of which are from Romania. That's quite a high representation!