5 ms·

"As Americans, you may have this impression that mass transit is a horrible thing for poor people. That impression comes from busses" This cannot be overstated

by rsync 11y ago

"As Americans, you may have this impression that mass transit is a horrible thing for poor people. That impression comes from busses" This cannot be overstated. There is nothing in the urban, built environment that is as terrible aesthetically and functionally as some big lumbering bus bonking its way through the city (and usually belching black smoke as it goes). I am a huge advocate of public transit and I will do anything to not ride a bus. Always remember the quote from Steve Jobs about tablets and the stylus: "If you see a (bus), they blew it." edit: Yes, yes I know all about BRT. Lipstick on a pig.

munificent 11y ago
> There is nothing in the urban, built environment that is as terrible aesthetically and functionally as some big lumbering bus bonking its way through the city (and usually belching black smoke as it goes). I'm pretty sure the NYC subway in the 80s could give it a run for its money: https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+subway+80s&espv=2&biw=1326&bih=805&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjyneHHpvvLAhVY62MKHU0wBRYQ_AUIBigB&dpr=2 https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+subway+80s&espv=2&b... I agree totally that buses have a negative stigma, some of which is rightly deserved.
AwPoorCarDrone 11y ago
And yet giant trains are somehow less-whatever-nonsense-you-just-pulled-out-of-your-ass.
techsupporter 11y ago
For what it is worth, I ride transit a lot in Seattle and really like the electric trolleybuses we have here. The new ones are whisper quiet, have air conditioning, are generally a smooth ride, and belch no black smoke. I will modify trips to be on one of those instead of a diesel bus. My house is on a trolley route, by choice. Metro has almost completely eliminated the older high-floor diesels that are loud and rickety. Next up is ditching the longer, old conversion electric buses.
- seanmcdirmid 11y ago
  The only reason they have trolleybuses in Seattle, however, is because of the hills. Electric provides much more torque for getting a big bus up a steep hill. If hills aren't involved, the bus is usually diesel given the flexibility and lack of infrastructure need. (They used to run electric in the bus tunnel, but went with hybrid instead)
  - goldent777 11y ago
    Diesel puts out more torque every day of the week. The reason you use electric in Seattle is because of cheap hydro energy.
    - 1024core 11y ago
      You are incorrect. At start (speed == 0), an electric motor will put out a lot more torque than a diesel. When you're stopped at a steep hill, this is what matters the most.
      - kazinator 11y ago
        At speed == 0, a combustion engine doesn't put out any torque; it doesn't work at that speed. It has quite a high minimum speed, below which it stalls (if under load: the idling speed is lower). To get going, you need a low gear and a clutch of some kind. To get going up a steep hill, with a heavy load, you simply need an even lower gear. The problem has a solution. The high low-end torque of electric motors is actually annoying in a transit vehicle. Particularly to those passengers who are standing up. The vehicle moves suddenly, flipping from zero acceleration to high acceleration. The time derivative of acceleration is called "jerk", for a good reason.
        mc32 11y ago
        The jerking problem could be solved, if they wanted to. Just like modern elevators aren't jerky or HSRs aren't typically jerky and with most you are hard pressed to feel hard acceleration/deceleration (BART does have a jerking problem, but it's old and it's not HSR).
WalterBright 11y ago
Ironically, there have been topics in HN about the wealthy in San Francisco being privileged enough to ride busses to work, while the lower classes sweat it out in their own cars.
- abritinthebay 11y ago
  Those people have never been on a Muni bus. They're awful, smelly, dirty, and run at random poorly managed times and you'll arrive late. Rich people Uber. SF needs more light rail. Lots of it.
  - rsync 11y ago
    "SF needs more light rail. Lots of it." ... and more subway.
    - abritinthebay 11y ago
      Can't disagree with that - though it's a lot more expensive and slower to build.
victorhooi 11y ago
Out of curiosity - what does that quote mean? As in, both in this context, and originally?

by rsync 11y ago

munificent 11y ago

> There is nothing in the urban, built environment that is as terrible aesthetically and functionally as some big lumbering bus bonking its way through the city (and usually belching black smoke as it goes). I'm pretty sure the NYC subway in the 80s could give it a run for its money: https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+subway+80s&espv=2&biw=1326&bih=805&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjyneHHpvvLAhVY62MKHU0wBRYQ_AUIBigB&dpr=2 https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+subway+80s&espv=2&b... I agree totally that buses have a negative stigma, some of which is rightly deserved.

AwPoorCarDrone 11y ago

And yet giant trains are somehow less-whatever-nonsense-you-just-pulled-out-of-your-ass.

techsupporter 11y ago

For what it is worth, I ride transit a lot in Seattle and really like the electric trolleybuses we have here. The new ones are whisper quiet, have air conditioning, are generally a smooth ride, and belch no black smoke. I will modify trips to be on one of those instead of a diesel bus. My house is on a trolley route, by choice. Metro has almost completely eliminated the older high-floor diesels that are loud and rickety. Next up is ditching the longer, old conversion electric buses.

seanmcdirmid 11y ago
The only reason they have trolleybuses in Seattle, however, is because of the hills. Electric provides much more torque for getting a big bus up a steep hill. If hills aren't involved, the bus is usually diesel given the flexibility and lack of infrastructure need. (They used to run electric in the bus tunnel, but went with hybrid instead)
- goldent777 11y ago
  Diesel puts out more torque every day of the week. The reason you use electric in Seattle is because of cheap hydro energy.
  - 1024core 11y ago
    You are incorrect. At start (speed == 0), an electric motor will put out a lot more torque than a diesel. When you're stopped at a steep hill, this is what matters the most.
    - kazinator 11y ago
      At speed == 0, a combustion engine doesn't put out any torque; it doesn't work at that speed. It has quite a high minimum speed, below which it stalls (if under load: the idling speed is lower). To get going, you need a low gear and a clutch of some kind. To get going up a steep hill, with a heavy load, you simply need an even lower gear. The problem has a solution. The high low-end torque of electric motors is actually annoying in a transit vehicle. Particularly to those passengers who are standing up. The vehicle moves suddenly, flipping from zero acceleration to high acceleration. The time derivative of acceleration is called "jerk", for a good reason.
      - mc32 11y ago
        The jerking problem could be solved, if they wanted to. Just like modern elevators aren't jerky or HSRs aren't typically jerky and with most you are hard pressed to feel hard acceleration/deceleration (BART does have a jerking problem, but it's old and it's not HSR).

WalterBright 11y ago

Ironically, there have been topics in HN about the wealthy in San Francisco being privileged enough to ride busses to work, while the lower classes sweat it out in their own cars.

abritinthebay 11y ago
Those people have never been on a Muni bus. They're awful, smelly, dirty, and run at random poorly managed times and you'll arrive late. Rich people Uber. SF needs more light rail. Lots of it.
- rsync 11y ago
  "SF needs more light rail. Lots of it." ... and more subway.
  - abritinthebay 11y ago
    Can't disagree with that - though it's a lot more expensive and slower to build.

victorhooi 11y ago

Out of curiosity - what does that quote mean? As in, both in this context, and originally?