9 ms·

Native Mac Notifications Comes to Chrome Stable

158 points by heavymark 11y ago

joshmoz 11y ago
I implemented the native OS X notifications in Firefox/Gecko some years ago. The native OS X API limitations were pretty frustrating (at least at the time, iirc), just didn't line up with the Web APIs all that well. Not blaming Apple, they weren't designing with our use cases in mind, just saying I can understand Google's temptation to avoid integration in order to retain control. In the end it's a tough call about what you value more.
- coldtea 11y ago
  How about NOT having notifications at all? When did this became something that browsers needed to have? Seems more like a solution in search of a problem.
  - tdicola 11y ago
    I agree entirely. Maybe we'll be lucky and they rip the feature entirely out soon like the app launcher no one wanted: http://blog.chromium.org/2016/03/retiring-chrome-app-launcher.html http://blog.chromium.org/2016/03/retiring-chrome-app-launche...
  - oh_sigh 11y ago
    You never have to allow notifications. AFAICT any site that wants to use notifications needs your consent first.
    - coldtea 11y ago
      How about the site NOT bothering me in the first place? Not even for my consent?
      - lessQQman333 11y ago
        Seems like someone put a lot of effort into thinking through the use case. Browser based chat apps like Slack, webmail, among other things are the sort of stuff I like some notifications on. Yeah there's a "app" for Slack, but it's a web view. Easier for me to have it as a pinned tab and always know where it is since it's either Chrome or terminal where I spend most of my time.
        coldtea 11y ago
        That's a valid point for such apps as Slack or Gmail etc. But then: a) the majority of the apps asking for notifications are spammy sites (as always the louder offenders). b) Slack, Gmail etc can have its notifications enable toggle hidden in Settings (and Slack indeed has significant customization options for notifications there). If we start saying "ok, Slack is useful, so it's OK to allow it to show an unsolicited popup asking to show notifications" then next thing we have half the useless web also doing the same. It's not a slippery slope either -- it's just how the web and spam works, with spammer sites/ads/etc exploiting any given opportunity to be loud and soliciting to the max...
        Touche 11y ago
        If you're so easily annoyed you should really be surfing with JavaScript off. The reality is that sites can do any number of things to annoy you because you are giving them permission to execute code on your machine. If you don't trust them with this permission then don't give it to them.
        coldtea 11y ago
        >If you're so easily annoyed What's "easy" about it? My annoyance is the age old popup annoyance, something tons of web users have lamented for ages. Ever heard anyone say they LIKE unsolicited popups? Even if it is to ask permission for something? >The reality is that sites can do any number of things to annoy you because you are giving them permission to execute code on your machine. If you don't trust them with this permission then don't give it to them. Sounds like a slippery slope. I don't understand these kind of half-thought arguments. I never said I want webpages to act as simple text. I like dynamic pages and apps -- I just don't like unsolicited popups and dialogs. The same holds true for the desktop, and countless people have expressed their frustrations with such popups there too. Starting from Clippy, the most annoying popup of all time, to the backslash against Windows (Vista?) "asking for admin permissions" dialog, which made them tone it down, and all the way to today...
  - mkhalil 11y ago
    The way I see it, I'd rather a notification than an email. In a child comment you write: "How about the site NOT bothering me in the first place? Not even for my consent?" They ask for my email all the time, which IMO is more annoying.
  - jameslk 11y ago
    I like to use Facebook chat on the web and get the same benefits of FB Messenger (e.g. notifications) without having to use the mobile app. The app strips away far more privacy rights than I'd like where as I have a lot more control with browsers.
  - pcwalton 11y ago
    I like knowing when I have new e-mails.
    - tdicola 11y ago
      I don't, I like having long stretches of time without distractions. Then I can choose when I want to catch up on mails and when I want to get to work. Please let me keep browsing the web like this too.
      - Touche 11y ago
        Turn off JavaScript. Websites can only distract you if you give them permission to execute code on your computer.
        tdicola 11y ago
        You keep suggesting this in replies but I don't know if you're actually serious or not. Disabling Javascript will break the vast majority of websites today from even rendering. Asking users to break rendering of the web just to stop annoying notification permission requests is silly.
        Touche 11y ago
        I don't understand what you want. You say you don't like distractions but there are dozens of ways a webpage can distract you. They can throw an alert() at you and you are forced to deal with it. This is much worse than an ignorable permission prompt. If browsers were to remove alerts, remove all types of features that need notification dialogs, web pages could still throw a modal dialog over its content. What you are asking for: a web with JavaScript but somehow with "distractions" prevented, is impossible. The second you allow someone to execute code on your computer, you are allowing them to do things that you might dislike.
        tdicola 11y ago
        I'm not asking that notifications be completely removed from the spec. I'm pointing out that popping a distracting dialog when you visit the root of a domain is a poor design decision that should be re-evaluated. We don't do it for SSL, RSS, favorites, and plenty of other information about a site. I don't see why web notifications are so important they need to distract people immediately upon visiting the site.
- okneil 11y ago
  I just wrote in a thread over on reddit how I use Chrome specifically for its implementation of desktop notifications. Native notifications on OSX are lacking to say the least. They show very little information when compared to Chrome. I hope this is an option that can be switched off when rolled out to stable at a later date.
  - heavymark 11y ago
    Last year Chrome announced it's discontinuing support for it's notification center (http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/14/9531133/google-removing-chrome-notification-center-windows-mac http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/14/9531133/google-removing-c...) on Mac and PC, so I imagine they are replacing it with native versions of each OS. To note, Stable is always several weeks behind Canary, so you can see the latest build of the notifications which shows more info than the stable version.
    - okneil 11y ago
      But surely Google want to keep notifications more interactive. Native notifications on OSX only allow for minimal interaction and are truncated to a small number of characters. I really hope they allow for other options.
elcapitan 11y ago
Oh cool, so soon that nuisance will pop up in Chrome on every second website that wants to spam me. Just like Safari.
- Laaw 11y ago
  Notifications aren't new, this only changes how notifications work. If you're not currently using Chrome notifications, nothing changes for you.
- macinjosh 11y ago
  In Safari websites have to ask permission before it can send you notifications. They can't just 'spam' you. You can also completely disable them so you're never asked for permission. I don't use Chrome so I don't know what the norm is there.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >In Safari websites have to ask permission before it can send you notifications. They can't just 'spam' you. Since people visit tens of new websites everyday, asking permission once is also close to spamming -- it's a non solicited popup for something most don't care and don't want. And don't get me started with the BS "This site uses cookies, OK/Not OK" we get in Europe...
    - k-mcgrady 11y ago
      >> "Since people visit tens of new websites everyday" Source? From my experience people tend to visit the same few sites everyday. Personally I've seen that permission notification about 4 or 5 times in the several years it's been a feature.
      - coldtea 11y ago
        >From my experience people tend to visit the same few sites everyday. It's a power distribution. They visit their few sites everyday, but they also visit a long tail of sites for different things. Except if we're talking about Aunt May/Uncle Paul, who only go from their Outlook Mail to Facebook.
benley 11y ago
And by "Stable" the headline actually means "Canary" at this point. It will be a while before it reaches the stable version, but it's coming. This is good news.
- hazz 11y ago
  They're actually available in stable behind a feature flag (chrome://flags/#enable-native-notifications).
  - LukaAl 11y ago
    No, as they explain, the feature in stable is behind the status in Canary: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=326539#c45 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=326539...
    - anamexis 11y ago
      I am running normal Chrome on Mac (Version 49.0.2623.87) and the feature flag is there under chrome://flags/
      - ihuman 11y ago
        As LukeAl said in the post you are commenting on, the stable version's native notification feature is 6-12 weeks behind Canary's (which the chromium.org update is talking about).
sergiotapia 11y ago
Also available on Opera Developer Edition (what I use as my primary browser these days). It's pretty sweet!
jug 11y ago
Much better idea than the... in browser thing they had before.
X-Cubed 11y ago
It would be nice to see support for the native Windows 10 notifications at some point too.
- owencm 11y ago
  (Disclaimer: I work on these features on Chrome) We're exploring that. It's not 100% clear either way, but I personally hope we can do it. Feel free to star this issue if you want to keep track of progress: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=516147 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=516147
  - felixrieseberg 11y ago
    I built Electron's native Windows notification integration and I'd be suuuuper happy about seeing it become a standard Chromium feature.
  - dingo_bat 11y ago
    According to that thread the reason for not doing Win10 notifications is: It would create a weird state where Chrome behaves differently on Win 10 than on Win 7/8 and developers of extensions/websites wouldn't know what they design for. Which is pretty weak, IMO. They argue that Win10 adoption is less. But I think the people using Win10 are already more than those using any form of OSX, ever.
jontro 11y ago
I assume this will mean notifications now respect the Do not disturb mode. This has been a really big pain when you get facebook notifications while having presentations
owencm 11y ago
Mods - title should read "Native Mac Notifications Behind A Flag in Chrome Stable"
heavymark 11y ago
Other than native mac notifications looking better since they seamlessly integrate visually, the far more important benefit to the change is all notification's history are stored in the notification center and now they will finally honor do not disturb. That is, on Mac's you can enable Do Not Disturb of all notifications such as during meetings or screen shares, but Chrome's notifications of course didn't honor this setting.
RealGeek 11y ago
I just built a plug & play app to enable push notifications on your website. Please contact me if you are interested to try it. My contact info is on my profile.
stephenr 11y ago
What is it about this topic that brought out comments from people being so deliberately obtuse (or who spent literally no time trying to solve the supposed problem they have). Multiple people complained about Safari using the OS notification system and not wanting web notifications at all. Safari has a Preference screen called Notifications, and offers a simple checkbox at the bottom "Allow websites to ask for permission to send push notifications". I'll grant you that its almost certain the feature will be harder to turn off in Chrome, but that is a complaint against the browser not the concept of notifications - and it makes no sense to complain (paraphrased) "now websites will spam me like they do in Safari" when Safari has a very simple solution to the 'problem'. Also, how is it possible the people saying they don't want any notifications for periods of time, have never heard of "Do not Disturb" mode? I usually have pretty low expectations from comments on HN but today I feel we've found a new low.

158 points by heavymark 11y ago

I implemented the native OS X notifications in Firefox/Gecko some years ago. The native OS X API limitations were pretty frustrating (at least at the time, iirc), just didn't line up with the Web APIs all that well. Not blaming Apple, they weren't designing with our use cases in mind, just saying I can understand Google's temptation to avoid integration in order to retain control. In the end it's a tough call about what you value more.

coldtea 11y ago
How about NOT having notifications at all? When did this became something that browsers needed to have? Seems more like a solution in search of a problem.
- tdicola 11y ago
  I agree entirely. Maybe we'll be lucky and they rip the feature entirely out soon like the app launcher no one wanted: http://blog.chromium.org/2016/03/retiring-chrome-app-launcher.html http://blog.chromium.org/2016/03/retiring-chrome-app-launche...
- oh_sigh 11y ago
  You never have to allow notifications. AFAICT any site that wants to use notifications needs your consent first.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    How about the site NOT bothering me in the first place? Not even for my consent?
    - lessQQman333 11y ago
      Seems like someone put a lot of effort into thinking through the use case. Browser based chat apps like Slack, webmail, among other things are the sort of stuff I like some notifications on. Yeah there's a "app" for Slack, but it's a web view. Easier for me to have it as a pinned tab and always know where it is since it's either Chrome or terminal where I spend most of my time.
      - coldtea 11y ago
        That's a valid point for such apps as Slack or Gmail etc. But then: a) the majority of the apps asking for notifications are spammy sites (as always the louder offenders). b) Slack, Gmail etc can have its notifications enable toggle hidden in Settings (and Slack indeed has significant customization options for notifications there). If we start saying "ok, Slack is useful, so it's OK to allow it to show an unsolicited popup asking to show notifications" then next thing we have half the useless web also doing the same. It's not a slippery slope either -- it's just how the web and spam works, with spammer sites/ads/etc exploiting any given opportunity to be loud and soliciting to the max...
        Touche 11y ago
        If you're so easily annoyed you should really be surfing with JavaScript off. The reality is that sites can do any number of things to annoy you because you are giving them permission to execute code on your machine. If you don't trust them with this permission then don't give it to them.
        coldtea 11y ago
        >If you're so easily annoyed What's "easy" about it? My annoyance is the age old popup annoyance, something tons of web users have lamented for ages. Ever heard anyone say they LIKE unsolicited popups? Even if it is to ask permission for something? >The reality is that sites can do any number of things to annoy you because you are giving them permission to execute code on your machine. If you don't trust them with this permission then don't give it to them. Sounds like a slippery slope. I don't understand these kind of half-thought arguments. I never said I want webpages to act as simple text. I like dynamic pages and apps -- I just don't like unsolicited popups and dialogs. The same holds true for the desktop, and countless people have expressed their frustrations with such popups there too. Starting from Clippy, the most annoying popup of all time, to the backslash against Windows (Vista?) "asking for admin permissions" dialog, which made them tone it down, and all the way to today...
- mkhalil 11y ago
  The way I see it, I'd rather a notification than an email. In a child comment you write: "How about the site NOT bothering me in the first place? Not even for my consent?" They ask for my email all the time, which IMO is more annoying.
- jameslk 11y ago
  I like to use Facebook chat on the web and get the same benefits of FB Messenger (e.g. notifications) without having to use the mobile app. The app strips away far more privacy rights than I'd like where as I have a lot more control with browsers.
- pcwalton 11y ago
  I like knowing when I have new e-mails.
  - tdicola 11y ago
    I don't, I like having long stretches of time without distractions. Then I can choose when I want to catch up on mails and when I want to get to work. Please let me keep browsing the web like this too.
    - Touche 11y ago
      Turn off JavaScript. Websites can only distract you if you give them permission to execute code on your computer.
      - tdicola 11y ago
        You keep suggesting this in replies but I don't know if you're actually serious or not. Disabling Javascript will break the vast majority of websites today from even rendering. Asking users to break rendering of the web just to stop annoying notification permission requests is silly.
        Touche 11y ago
        I don't understand what you want. You say you don't like distractions but there are dozens of ways a webpage can distract you. They can throw an alert() at you and you are forced to deal with it. This is much worse than an ignorable permission prompt. If browsers were to remove alerts, remove all types of features that need notification dialogs, web pages could still throw a modal dialog over its content. What you are asking for: a web with JavaScript but somehow with "distractions" prevented, is impossible. The second you allow someone to execute code on your computer, you are allowing them to do things that you might dislike.
        tdicola 11y ago
        I'm not asking that notifications be completely removed from the spec. I'm pointing out that popping a distracting dialog when you visit the root of a domain is a poor design decision that should be re-evaluated. We don't do it for SSL, RSS, favorites, and plenty of other information about a site. I don't see why web notifications are so important they need to distract people immediately upon visiting the site.
okneil 11y ago
I just wrote in a thread over on reddit how I use Chrome specifically for its implementation of desktop notifications. Native notifications on OSX are lacking to say the least. They show very little information when compared to Chrome. I hope this is an option that can be switched off when rolled out to stable at a later date.
- heavymark 11y ago
  Last year Chrome announced it's discontinuing support for it's notification center (http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/14/9531133/google-removing-chrome-notification-center-windows-mac http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/14/9531133/google-removing-c...) on Mac and PC, so I imagine they are replacing it with native versions of each OS. To note, Stable is always several weeks behind Canary, so you can see the latest build of the notifications which shows more info than the stable version.
  - okneil 11y ago
    But surely Google want to keep notifications more interactive. Native notifications on OSX only allow for minimal interaction and are truncated to a small number of characters. I really hope they allow for other options.

elcapitan 11y ago

Oh cool, so soon that nuisance will pop up in Chrome on every second website that wants to spam me. Just like Safari.

Laaw 11y ago
Notifications aren't new, this only changes how notifications work. If you're not currently using Chrome notifications, nothing changes for you.
macinjosh 11y ago
In Safari websites have to ask permission before it can send you notifications. They can't just 'spam' you. You can also completely disable them so you're never asked for permission. I don't use Chrome so I don't know what the norm is there.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >In Safari websites have to ask permission before it can send you notifications. They can't just 'spam' you. Since people visit tens of new websites everyday, asking permission once is also close to spamming -- it's a non solicited popup for something most don't care and don't want. And don't get me started with the BS "This site uses cookies, OK/Not OK" we get in Europe...
  - k-mcgrady 11y ago
    >> "Since people visit tens of new websites everyday" Source? From my experience people tend to visit the same few sites everyday. Personally I've seen that permission notification about 4 or 5 times in the several years it's been a feature.
    - coldtea 11y ago
      >From my experience people tend to visit the same few sites everyday. It's a power distribution. They visit their few sites everyday, but they also visit a long tail of sites for different things. Except if we're talking about Aunt May/Uncle Paul, who only go from their Outlook Mail to Facebook.

benley 11y ago

And by "Stable" the headline actually means "Canary" at this point. It will be a while before it reaches the stable version, but it's coming. This is good news.

hazz 11y ago
They're actually available in stable behind a feature flag (chrome://flags/#enable-native-notifications).
- LukaAl 11y ago
  No, as they explain, the feature in stable is behind the status in Canary: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=326539#c45 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=326539...
  - anamexis 11y ago
    I am running normal Chrome on Mac (Version 49.0.2623.87) and the feature flag is there under chrome://flags/
    - ihuman 11y ago
      As LukeAl said in the post you are commenting on, the stable version's native notification feature is 6-12 weeks behind Canary's (which the chromium.org update is talking about).

sergiotapia 11y ago

Also available on Opera Developer Edition (what I use as my primary browser these days). It's pretty sweet!

jug 11y ago

Much better idea than the... in browser thing they had before.

X-Cubed 11y ago

It would be nice to see support for the native Windows 10 notifications at some point too.

owencm 11y ago
(Disclaimer: I work on these features on Chrome) We're exploring that. It's not 100% clear either way, but I personally hope we can do it. Feel free to star this issue if you want to keep track of progress: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=516147 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=516147
- felixrieseberg 11y ago
  I built Electron's native Windows notification integration and I'd be suuuuper happy about seeing it become a standard Chromium feature.
- dingo_bat 11y ago
  According to that thread the reason for not doing Win10 notifications is: It would create a weird state where Chrome behaves differently on Win 10 than on Win 7/8 and developers of extensions/websites wouldn't know what they design for. Which is pretty weak, IMO. They argue that Win10 adoption is less. But I think the people using Win10 are already more than those using any form of OSX, ever.

jontro 11y ago

I assume this will mean notifications now respect the Do not disturb mode. This has been a really big pain when you get facebook notifications while having presentations

owencm 11y ago

Mods - title should read "Native Mac Notifications Behind A Flag in Chrome Stable"

heavymark 11y ago

Other than native mac notifications looking better since they seamlessly integrate visually, the far more important benefit to the change is all notification's history are stored in the notification center and now they will finally honor do not disturb. That is, on Mac's you can enable Do Not Disturb of all notifications such as during meetings or screen shares, but Chrome's notifications of course didn't honor this setting.

RealGeek 11y ago

I just built a plug & play app to enable push notifications on your website. Please contact me if you are interested to try it. My contact info is on my profile.

stephenr 11y ago

What is it about this topic that brought out comments from people being so deliberately obtuse (or who spent literally no time trying to solve the supposed problem they have). Multiple people complained about Safari using the OS notification system and not wanting web notifications at all. Safari has a Preference screen called Notifications, and offers a simple checkbox at the bottom "Allow websites to ask for permission to send push notifications". I'll grant you that its almost certain the feature will be harder to turn off in Chrome, but that is a complaint against the browser not the concept of notifications - and it makes no sense to complain (paraphrased) "now websites will spam me like they do in Safari" when Safari has a very simple solution to the 'problem'. Also, how is it possible the people saying they don't want any notifications for periods of time, have never heard of "Do not Disturb" mode? I usually have pretty low expectations from comments on HN but today I feel we've found a new low.