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> General Motors first unveiled the Chevy Bolt as a concept car in January 2015... > As Pam Fletcher, GM’s executive chief engineer for electric vehicles, rece

> General Motors first unveiled the Chevy Bolt as a concept car in January 2015... > As Pam Fletcher, GM’s executive chief engineer for electric vehicles, recently put it to me with a confident grin: “Who wants to be second?” Yah but... it's a GM. I own the finest luxury automobile GM makes, the Cadillac Escalade. It is a chrome lined bucket of bolts. If they can't do this right how can they do a $25k car right? As I type this my GM is in the shop RN with a hard to reproduce transmission issue. Oh and it cost as much as a Model S. o_O OTOH the Model S is the most well manufactured anything I've ever sat in. It boggles my mind why anyone would buy a second GM. They've had enough time to get it right. Instead they've a consistent track record of mediocrity with an epic failure about every decade. Tesla tho... All I can say is, the people baffled by Tesla's success can't have spent much time behind the wheel of a Model S. I didn't realize how much cars suck, even luxury cars, till I spent a day driving an S up and down the PCH.

gist 11y ago
> I own the finest luxury automobile GM makes, the Cadillac Escalade. It is a chrome lined bucket of bolts. I feel the same way. Thought briefly about getting a new Corvette. Have had several 911's and other Porsches. Just can't wrap my head around buying a Chevy. When I was a kid it was all the rage (long long time ago). So was Porsche for that matter and Mercedes had just broken into the luxury market here (mid 70's).
- kerryfalk 11y ago
  The new C7 'vette is leaps and bounds ahead of the previous generations. It's not the same as you might expect from other performance vehicles in terms of fit and finish but it is quite a bit better than what they used to produce and you'd be hard pressed to find a better bang for your buck. With that said, I personally chose to spend more for a very boisterous German muscle car...
- mikestew 11y ago
  The C7 is the first 'vette ever that made me say, "I'd like to own one of those" when I first saw it. Then my Mom bought one. She just bought it a few months back, so I can't vouch for long-term reliability, but $50K buys one hell of a sports car. Currently the best go-fast value out there, IMO. (And just like every other car out there, the in-dash software sucks, but that's mitigated by it having Car Play.)
  - chadgeidel 11y ago
    Agreed. Car and Driver had a bit of a problem with their long-term Z51 (the one i would option out - no one needs 650hp) http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-manual-long-term-test-wrap-up http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-... I'm not sure I would get a used one, but hopefully they've got the bugs worked out by now. (Full disclosure: I'd spend my 50k on a gently-used Evora S)
makomk 11y ago
Based on the reliability statistics that organizations like Consumer Reports have collected, the Model S isn't that reliable - lots of drivetrain issues, mechanical issues with stuff like door handles, etc. Its owners just don't mind them because they're really enthusiastic about Tesla.
- reportingsjr 11y ago
  The reliability reports seem to stem from them being the first year or two that the model s was being produced. There were a handful of big issues (the motor winding issue being the main one I can think of) and a handful of smaller ones, but at this point they seem to have worked out most of the kinks. Time will tell tell if they have long term reliability.
- ryanmarsh 11y ago
  The consumer reports on my Cadillac weren't indicative either. I'll give Tesla a pass on door handles because I've replaced them on my Cadillac 3 times. Also body panels jiggle, buttons stick, fluids leak, electrical problems, should I keep going? Is there any equivalence here? It amazes me that we can put an SUV sized robot on Mars but Cadillac can't make a car the bumper doesn't fall off of.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    To be fair, GM builds very few Mars rovers.
    - neonkiwi 11y ago
      They've built some lunar rovers though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Roving_Vehicle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Roving_Vehicle (Not that it proves anything, ask Harrison Schmitt about the fenders)
  - silliconeheart 11y ago
    get a hyundai?
bflesch 11y ago
> OTOH the Model S is the most well manufactured anything I've ever sat in. Have tried out a full-option Audi A8 or an S-Class or 7 series? During my time in the US I was shocked by the bad interior quality of GM. Apart from the actual software running on the cars, I think German manufacturers still have very high quality interior in their flagship models. RE: Software: Current Audis take ~15 secs to boot up the navigation, and during that period you cannot input anything / the screen just hangs.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- daveguy 11y ago
  Re: software... So the first time you get in it the A8 has a zero to 60 of 20.4 seconds? That sounds about right. I drove an A4 for a while and the gas response was absolutely terrible. You had to press it gently if you wanted it to respond immediately. If you gunned it or even just pressed a little quick to get across oncoming lanes -- expect about a half second delay. One of the worst cars I have driven. Taking it to the dealer the response was -- "that's normal". My boring ass accord responds to the gas pedal better than the A4. Maybe their higher end cars are better, but I wouldn't get another audi.
  - kbenson 11y ago
    My mother has a Mercedes with the same response. I assumed it was a luxury car and/or Mercedes large engine thing. Whenever I drive it I end up jerking forward trying to manually compensate. I imagine if I just accepted it everything would be much smoother .
    - arprocter 11y ago
      I'm not sure if it's related, but IIRC there was a lot of complaining when BMW first introduced drive-by-wire throttles (E46 3 series)
    - kerryfalk 11y ago
      Guesses as I don't know which specific models you're referring to: The parent's lack of throttle response is most likely due to turbo lag. Modern cars are getting better with variable vein turbos. If your Mom's Mercedes suffers from poor throttle response I'd guess it's because she purchased one with a small engine relative to the size of the vehicle. A C230, for example, isn't the sportiest of cars. A C63, however, does not suffer from poor throttle response.
rconti 11y ago
But everyone's always known the Escalade as an overpriced truck. The quality of a (cheaper!) Cadillac sedan is going to be vastly better. I wouldn't call the Model S the most well-manufactured ANYTHING. I love the car (and have money down on a 3), but, in particular, it was glaring how cheap the plastic panel on the floor between the front seats (with the rubber strips you can push out the bottom) and the flat hard plastic panel with USB sockets behind it were.
zeveb 11y ago
> I own the finest luxury automobile GM makes, the Cadillac Escalade. It's been a long time since Cadillac has been the Cadillac of cars … I honestly don't think I'll ever buy an American car again, although I have heard from friends that Fords are pretty decent nowadays. I'm all about the Japanese cars for the foreseeable future.
- treehau5 11y ago
  Ford's quality went up when they acquired Volvo's designs. I think the best car they make is the Focus ST. It's a good seller in Europe as well.
  - rifung 11y ago
    Most car magazines seem to like the Fiesta ST even more than the Focus ST so that's probably worth checking out as well
    - LoSboccacc 11y ago
      Cant really stand fiesta interiors
skywhopper 11y ago
> I own the finest luxury automobile GM makes, the Cadillac Escalade. It may be the most expensive and grant you the most prestige among a certain cohort, but it's not the "finest". Putting a Cadillac badge and some extra features on a truck doesn't change the fact that it's a shiny wrapper on a pickup truck chassis.
- zwily 11y ago
  What's the finest luxury automobile that GM makes then?
  - zippergz 11y ago
    The Cadillac CTS is much nicer inside than an Escalade, IMHO.
  - avn2109 11y ago
    Probably the Cadillac CT6.
  - kerryfalk 11y ago
    ATS-V/CTS-V
  - bobwaycott 11y ago
    GM does not have a car fitting this category.
- ryanmarsh 11y ago
  You're exactly right. But I'm sure they'd consider it their flagship.
andromeduck 11y ago
>OTOH the Model S is the most well manufactured anything I've ever sat in. I'm not sure I'd agree. The much of the interior and door handles felt very low quality to me. Theres just too much creaking/give on a light touch. The central console is also pretty underwhelming. It's UI is gaudy and slow. The maps stutters and lags like a cheap ass Android phone from 2010 and the display isn't particularly bright or high contrast. I think BMW is doing the best right now. Their UI is a bit gaudy too but at least it's responsive.
- zippergz 11y ago
  The interior of the Model S feels much cheaper than any other $100k car I've been in, and also worse than most $50k cars I've been in. There's no possible way I'd rank the Model S as the best manufactured car based on the interior.
- vvanders 11y ago
  That's because they sadly put a Tegra3 in it which was one of the worst performing SoCs from that era.
  - mdorazio 11y ago
    What's even sadder is what the other manufacturers put in theirs. A prominent OEM I recently worked with was planning to put a significantly worse SOC than the Tegra3 in their 2017 head units to save a few bucks.
    - vvanders 11y ago
      Yup, the few $$$ are usually not worth it from a customer perspective. Even worse in the case of Tesla as they need to drive a 1920x1200 panel which is quite a strain on the Tegra3, I'm honestly surprised it's as fluid as it is.
    - andromeduck 11y ago
      Yeah it's really sad they're not willing to put in the $10-50 more on a $100k car.
fhood 11y ago
Escalade is a bad comparison. Few have ever accused it of being a good car. I agree with you, but to be fair to GM they have gotten better as of late. Cadillac ATS and Camaro SS are truly great cars as of this year. As good as they are they will never be quite the same as a Tesla because Tesla has a unique aura that only the most elite manufacturers can really match. A Mercedes s-class doesnt feel special, a Tesla does. Owning a Tesla is like owning a McLaren or Ferrari and that is what sets them apart at the moment......in my opinion anyway.
ssmoot 11y ago
OTOH I've had a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee snap the left driver axle and needed the transfer case, the differential, the axle obviously, etc replaced a couple month into ownership. It was in the shop 74 days total. Didn't lemon it. Should have. But it was reliable after that. I drove a 2013 Nissan Leaf that I took into the shop because the main 12V fuse (seat heaters and dash lights, but not the instrument cluster) blew reliably every time I remotely warmed the car up with front and rear seat heaters enabled while plugged into my 240v charger. 4 times. It was obviously a short somewhere but they'd just replace the fuse and tell me they couldn't reproduce it. I did lemon that vehicle. I had a 2015 Mazda 3 for a few months but meh. Nice car, but after the cavernous cargo space of the leaf I really grew to resent the sloped roofline and limited cargo of the Mazda 3. Reliable for the short time I had it though. Now I drive a 2015 GMC Sierra 2500 Denali. The EGR valve disintegrated in the first month and left debris in the #1 cylinder. I made them replace the engine and extend the powertrain warranty. They also threw in an under-the-rear-seat organizer I didn't feel like paying $500 as a dealer installed option previously. "I bought a new truck with a new engine. Not a new truck with a rebuilt engine." For the scope of that job I walked away impressed with how quickly they resolved it, (two weeks total; I think 4 days after ordering the engine, which had to be shipped by rail from Michigan) and with such little arguing/hassle compared to Chrysler or Nissan. I think that mostly comes down to the dealership in that case. Point is, all vehicles can have issues. I've been more unlucky than most. But I take comfort in the fact that the issues I've encountered are abnormal. My wife happily drives her Nissan Quest with no issues. My dad and my sister-in-law both had/have Chevy Cobalts with no issues that they paid very little for compared to a Corolla or Civic. The Escalade has a reputation for having issues. I don't see why Tesla should get a pass on poor reliability (as someone who's had to replace door handles and power window motors and switches in used cars it's completely insane to me you'd want a motorized door handle) but an individual experience with a particular vehicle should sour you on an entire brand. That's just not very rational. Yes I was pissed at Chrysler (and with their ratings I'd probably be more justified than most). Yes I was pissed at Nissan. If you're upset about your Escalade, I'd suggest it's probably more of a dealership issue than anything else. I'd be surprised if after one bad repair experience Sewell didn't make it right. They did for me. Which is a lot more than I can say for some of my experiences. Which on the one hand might endear Tesla more (not having dealership franchises). Or not if you'd have to drive 150 miles each way just to drop off your vehicle to get a door handle motor replaced.
kbob 11y ago
>I didn't realize how much cars suck, even luxury cars, till I spent a day driving an S up and down the PCH. No comment on how much other roads suck, after a day driving up and down the PCH? More seriously, do you think spending the day on the PCH colored your perception of the Tesla?
- ryanmarsh 11y ago
  Yes the PCH could bias, obvi. I also sat in traffic too though. I had to get there from SF first. Everything about the car was just right. I was impressed at every turn (pun unintended).
  - kbob 11y ago
    I test drove a Model S last month too, on mundane roads. I was also mightily impressed. But not enough to place an order -- the car still felt too big to be comfortable, especially in parking lots. I did reserve a Model 3.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    If you had Autopilot, then sitting in traffic is going to bias you even more! That's really where it shines. I mean, traffic sucks no matter what, but the ability to just tell the car to handle and sit back and relax is pretty amazing. Of course, I don't know if that really counts as bias, since sitting in traffic is actually a representative task.
MagnumOpus 11y ago
> OTOH the Model S is the most well manufactured anything I've ever sat in That is one anecdotal. A much more interesting one is that Tesla is so bad at QC that even the most die-hard Tesla fans are now building checklists to do the quality control that the factory skimped on [1]. It is also rather silly to compare Tesla interior/exterior design or reliability with the big three - it is well known that they are good at neither. Pick a Lexus or a Honda/Acura or an Audi or a Mercedes and see what you get for your money there... [1] https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-delivery-checklist.60648/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-delivery-che...
- codeulike 11y ago
  That checklist is for sig model Xs, the first ones off the production line. Not quite the same as the Model S which Tesla have made over 100,000 of.
- rsync 11y ago
  "It is also rather silly to compare Tesla interior/exterior design or reliability with the big three - it is well known that they are good at neither. Pick a Lexus or a Honda/Acura or an Audi or a Mercedes and see what you get for your money there..." I'll save you some time ... The interior of the lowest end BMW/Merc/Audi cars (3series/C-Class/A4) are so much nicer than the interior of a model S so as to be stupefying.
  - grecy 11y ago
    > The interior of the lowest end BMW/Merc/Audi cars (3series/C-Class/A4) are so much nicer than the interior of a model S so as to be stupefying. You can choose a drive train that has been more-or-less unchanged for many decades, with all the money spent on the interior, or you can choose a revolutionary drive train, with a basic interior. It's simply your choice.
    - recursive 11y ago
      The Tesla apologist rhetoric is getting a little hard to follow. Which is it? Are Teslas the best-manufactured anything? Or are they lacking because they're so revolutionary?
towndrunk 11y ago
You have a rebadged Chevy Tahoe... take a look at what Audi provides if you want a real comparison.
ecopoesis 11y ago
> OTOH the Model S is the most well manufactured anything I've ever sat in Edmunds long term Tesla Model S needed its drivetrain replaced twice[1].That doesn't seem very well made to me. [1] http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-drive-unit-iv-the-milling.html http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-tes...
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >That doesn't seem very well made to me. Disclaimer: I think the Model S is a good car. It's an unsubstantiated myth, just like the Tesla is the safest and fastest car on the road. The fact is, we don't know much about the maintenance record of these cars, because there aren't that many and they haven't been on the road long.
  - ryanmarsh 11y ago
    Even if they aren't 5 stars in reliability they make 50,000 a year and are fairly young. I'm sure they'll figure it out. GM has had more than enough time to get it right.
forgetsusername 11y ago
>OTOH the Model S is the most well manufactured anything I've ever sat in. The Tesla forums have quite a few people complaining about blown drive units, missing paint, stuck doors...this is for a low volume car. From an outsiders view, I'm not sure your experience with 1 GM and 0 Teslas is relevant.
tryitnow 11y ago
People are baffled by Tesla's success? I don't really follow cars, but I do know that Tesla gets high marks from a lot of different independent organizations. Besides the whole electric car thing, there seemed to be a general opportunity in the auto industry for an upstart firm. It looks like a classic oligopoly where the incumbents got lazy. Tesla is doing to everyone what the Japanese did to the Americans in the 70s and 80s. Outcompeting the complacent incumbents.
jrcii 11y ago
Hopefully Tesla doesn't end up crushed by blood-sucking union pension liabilities and can afford to continue making a marketable product.
sremani 11y ago
I own the highest customer satisfaction Auto GM makes Chevy Volt. The instant torque and a very practical AER, and they do it for 33K (without tax credit) for a car available right now. I have 2014 Volt am extremely happy, and do recommend the 2017 Volt which is a much better version retaining its original identity. But TSLA is the darling of the press, rightfully or other wise. But at a Pound for Pound level, Gen2 Volt is an excellent choice. Unfortunately now those 250K people who reserved a Model 3 could be driving a EV right now and making an impact instead of waiting for 3 more years. One thing is sure, Cars are not like Phones, you see People with Phones but you see People in the Cars, so once there is a bit of saturation of Model 3 on west coast, people will look around and "discover" Bolt EV or who knows may be Volt.
- ryanmarsh 11y ago
  When the S ships do you suppose you would still pay 33k for a Volt?
  - dragontamer 11y ago
    Considering that you can fill up the Volt with gasoline for long-term trips, that's a major plus for me. You get the battery for daily usage, and the electric generator for long trips. That's a lot more practical than waiting 30 minutes every ~200 miles on the supercharger network. GM has utterly solved the "range anxiety" problem entirely, with only a 40-mile electric battery.
    - chc 11y ago
      You could just as well say the Ford Mustang solves the range anxiety problem by relying on gas. Making a gas-powered vehicle isn't solving range anxiety, because the range anxiety problem relates to electric vehicles. The Volt is a hybrid, like the Prius. Hybrids never had range anxiety associated with them.
      - dragontamer 11y ago
        The Volt is a hybrid that is in 100% electric mode for the vast, vast majority of the time. There's a big difference between an electric-assist Prius and an electric-first plus Gasoline Generator Volt. The Prius is always burning gasoline, while the Volt only starts burning gas when it runs low on charge. There's a newer model Prius (ie: Prius Prime) that has 20-miles of pure electric range, but that's not even enough to get me from home to work and back. In practice, I'd have to keep the Prius in gasoline / hybrid mode even for a daily commute. In contrast, the Volt's 40-mile pure electric range is a big deal changer. Again, the Volt is a pure electric vehicle with a generator. The Prius is a hybrid engine (and the Prius Prime is a hybrid engine that can shut off the gasoline feed, but is still a hybrid engine nonetheless). I'd say the standard Prius is closer to the Malibu Hybrid, or other hybrids. But the plug-in pure electric mode of the Volt (and the recent Prius Prime) almost demands a new category.
brightball 11y ago
I leased a Volt for 3 years and loved it. I still don't understand why anybody would want a Tesla over a Volt for anything other than a fashion statement. The Volt was excellent and really just needed some refinement on the interior consoles. Drove well. Had great pickup. Unlimited range via gas generator that gets 37 mpg if you need to take it more than the battery's 40 miles. Love that car and still miss it.

gist 11y ago

> I own the finest luxury automobile GM makes, the Cadillac Escalade. It is a chrome lined bucket of bolts. I feel the same way. Thought briefly about getting a new Corvette. Have had several 911's and other Porsches. Just can't wrap my head around buying a Chevy. When I was a kid it was all the rage (long long time ago). So was Porsche for that matter and Mercedes had just broken into the luxury market here (mid 70's).

kerryfalk 11y ago
The new C7 'vette is leaps and bounds ahead of the previous generations. It's not the same as you might expect from other performance vehicles in terms of fit and finish but it is quite a bit better than what they used to produce and you'd be hard pressed to find a better bang for your buck. With that said, I personally chose to spend more for a very boisterous German muscle car...
mikestew 11y ago
The C7 is the first 'vette ever that made me say, "I'd like to own one of those" when I first saw it. Then my Mom bought one. She just bought it a few months back, so I can't vouch for long-term reliability, but $50K buys one hell of a sports car. Currently the best go-fast value out there, IMO. (And just like every other car out there, the in-dash software sucks, but that's mitigated by it having Car Play.)
- chadgeidel 11y ago
  Agreed. Car and Driver had a bit of a problem with their long-term Z51 (the one i would option out - no one needs 650hp) http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-manual-long-term-test-wrap-up http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-... I'm not sure I would get a used one, but hopefully they've got the bugs worked out by now. (Full disclosure: I'd spend my 50k on a gently-used Evora S)

makomk 11y ago

Based on the reliability statistics that organizations like Consumer Reports have collected, the Model S isn't that reliable - lots of drivetrain issues, mechanical issues with stuff like door handles, etc. Its owners just don't mind them because they're really enthusiastic about Tesla.

reportingsjr 11y ago
The reliability reports seem to stem from them being the first year or two that the model s was being produced. There were a handful of big issues (the motor winding issue being the main one I can think of) and a handful of smaller ones, but at this point they seem to have worked out most of the kinks. Time will tell tell if they have long term reliability.
ryanmarsh 11y ago
The consumer reports on my Cadillac weren't indicative either. I'll give Tesla a pass on door handles because I've replaced them on my Cadillac 3 times. Also body panels jiggle, buttons stick, fluids leak, electrical problems, should I keep going? Is there any equivalence here? It amazes me that we can put an SUV sized robot on Mars but Cadillac can't make a car the bumper doesn't fall off of.
- mikeash 11y ago
  To be fair, GM builds very few Mars rovers.
  - neonkiwi 11y ago
    They've built some lunar rovers though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Roving_Vehicle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Roving_Vehicle (Not that it proves anything, ask Harrison Schmitt about the fenders)
- silliconeheart 11y ago
  get a hyundai?

bflesch 11y ago

> OTOH the Model S is the most well manufactured anything I've ever sat in. Have tried out a full-option Audi A8 or an S-Class or 7 series? During my time in the US I was shocked by the bad interior quality of GM. Apart from the actual software running on the cars, I think German manufacturers still have very high quality interior in their flagship models. RE: Software: Current Audis take ~15 secs to boot up the navigation, and during that period you cannot input anything / the screen just hangs.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
daveguy 11y ago
Re: software... So the first time you get in it the A8 has a zero to 60 of 20.4 seconds? That sounds about right. I drove an A4 for a while and the gas response was absolutely terrible. You had to press it gently if you wanted it to respond immediately. If you gunned it or even just pressed a little quick to get across oncoming lanes -- expect about a half second delay. One of the worst cars I have driven. Taking it to the dealer the response was -- "that's normal". My boring ass accord responds to the gas pedal better than the A4. Maybe their higher end cars are better, but I wouldn't get another audi.
- kbenson 11y ago
  My mother has a Mercedes with the same response. I assumed it was a luxury car and/or Mercedes large engine thing. Whenever I drive it I end up jerking forward trying to manually compensate. I imagine if I just accepted it everything would be much smoother .
  - arprocter 11y ago
    I'm not sure if it's related, but IIRC there was a lot of complaining when BMW first introduced drive-by-wire throttles (E46 3 series)
  - kerryfalk 11y ago
    Guesses as I don't know which specific models you're referring to: The parent's lack of throttle response is most likely due to turbo lag. Modern cars are getting better with variable vein turbos. If your Mom's Mercedes suffers from poor throttle response I'd guess it's because she purchased one with a small engine relative to the size of the vehicle. A C230, for example, isn't the sportiest of cars. A C63, however, does not suffer from poor throttle response.

rconti 11y ago

But everyone's always known the Escalade as an overpriced truck. The quality of a (cheaper!) Cadillac sedan is going to be vastly better. I wouldn't call the Model S the most well-manufactured ANYTHING. I love the car (and have money down on a 3), but, in particular, it was glaring how cheap the plastic panel on the floor between the front seats (with the rubber strips you can push out the bottom) and the flat hard plastic panel with USB sockets behind it were.

zeveb 11y ago

> I own the finest luxury automobile GM makes, the Cadillac Escalade. It's been a long time since Cadillac has been the Cadillac of cars … I honestly don't think I'll ever buy an American car again, although I have heard from friends that Fords are pretty decent nowadays. I'm all about the Japanese cars for the foreseeable future.

treehau5 11y ago
Ford's quality went up when they acquired Volvo's designs. I think the best car they make is the Focus ST. It's a good seller in Europe as well.
- rifung 11y ago
  Most car magazines seem to like the Fiesta ST even more than the Focus ST so that's probably worth checking out as well
  - LoSboccacc 11y ago
    Cant really stand fiesta interiors

skywhopper 11y ago

> I own the finest luxury automobile GM makes, the Cadillac Escalade. It may be the most expensive and grant you the most prestige among a certain cohort, but it's not the "finest". Putting a Cadillac badge and some extra features on a truck doesn't change the fact that it's a shiny wrapper on a pickup truck chassis.

zwily 11y ago
What's the finest luxury automobile that GM makes then?
- zippergz 11y ago
  The Cadillac CTS is much nicer inside than an Escalade, IMHO.
- avn2109 11y ago
  Probably the Cadillac CT6.
- kerryfalk 11y ago
  ATS-V/CTS-V
- bobwaycott 11y ago
  GM does not have a car fitting this category.
ryanmarsh 11y ago
You're exactly right. But I'm sure they'd consider it their flagship.

andromeduck 11y ago

>OTOH the Model S is the most well manufactured anything I've ever sat in. I'm not sure I'd agree. The much of the interior and door handles felt very low quality to me. Theres just too much creaking/give on a light touch. The central console is also pretty underwhelming. It's UI is gaudy and slow. The maps stutters and lags like a cheap ass Android phone from 2010 and the display isn't particularly bright or high contrast. I think BMW is doing the best right now. Their UI is a bit gaudy too but at least it's responsive.

zippergz 11y ago
The interior of the Model S feels much cheaper than any other $100k car I've been in, and also worse than most $50k cars I've been in. There's no possible way I'd rank the Model S as the best manufactured car based on the interior.
vvanders 11y ago
That's because they sadly put a Tegra3 in it which was one of the worst performing SoCs from that era.
- mdorazio 11y ago
  What's even sadder is what the other manufacturers put in theirs. A prominent OEM I recently worked with was planning to put a significantly worse SOC than the Tegra3 in their 2017 head units to save a few bucks.
  - vvanders 11y ago
    Yup, the few $$$ are usually not worth it from a customer perspective. Even worse in the case of Tesla as they need to drive a 1920x1200 panel which is quite a strain on the Tegra3, I'm honestly surprised it's as fluid as it is.
  - andromeduck 11y ago
    Yeah it's really sad they're not willing to put in the $10-50 more on a $100k car.

fhood 11y ago

Escalade is a bad comparison. Few have ever accused it of being a good car. I agree with you, but to be fair to GM they have gotten better as of late. Cadillac ATS and Camaro SS are truly great cars as of this year. As good as they are they will never be quite the same as a Tesla because Tesla has a unique aura that only the most elite manufacturers can really match. A Mercedes s-class doesnt feel special, a Tesla does. Owning a Tesla is like owning a McLaren or Ferrari and that is what sets them apart at the moment......in my opinion anyway.

ssmoot 11y ago

OTOH I've had a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee snap the left driver axle and needed the transfer case, the differential, the axle obviously, etc replaced a couple month into ownership. It was in the shop 74 days total. Didn't lemon it. Should have. But it was reliable after that. I drove a 2013 Nissan Leaf that I took into the shop because the main 12V fuse (seat heaters and dash lights, but not the instrument cluster) blew reliably every time I remotely warmed the car up with front and rear seat heaters enabled while plugged into my 240v charger. 4 times. It was obviously a short somewhere but they'd just replace the fuse and tell me they couldn't reproduce it. I did lemon that vehicle. I had a 2015 Mazda 3 for a few months but meh. Nice car, but after the cavernous cargo space of the leaf I really grew to resent the sloped roofline and limited cargo of the Mazda 3. Reliable for the short time I had it though. Now I drive a 2015 GMC Sierra 2500 Denali. The EGR valve disintegrated in the first month and left debris in the #1 cylinder. I made them replace the engine and extend the powertrain warranty. They also threw in an under-the-rear-seat organizer I didn't feel like paying $500 as a dealer installed option previously. "I bought a new truck with a new engine. Not a new truck with a rebuilt engine." For the scope of that job I walked away impressed with how quickly they resolved it, (two weeks total; I think 4 days after ordering the engine, which had to be shipped by rail from Michigan) and with such little arguing/hassle compared to Chrysler or Nissan. I think that mostly comes down to the dealership in that case. Point is, all vehicles can have issues. I've been more unlucky than most. But I take comfort in the fact that the issues I've encountered are abnormal. My wife happily drives her Nissan Quest with no issues. My dad and my sister-in-law both had/have Chevy Cobalts with no issues that they paid very little for compared to a Corolla or Civic. The Escalade has a reputation for having issues. I don't see why Tesla should get a pass on poor reliability (as someone who's had to replace door handles and power window motors and switches in used cars it's completely insane to me you'd want a motorized door handle) but an individual experience with a particular vehicle should sour you on an entire brand. That's just not very rational. Yes I was pissed at Chrysler (and with their ratings I'd probably be more justified than most). Yes I was pissed at Nissan. If you're upset about your Escalade, I'd suggest it's probably more of a dealership issue than anything else. I'd be surprised if after one bad repair experience Sewell didn't make it right. They did for me. Which is a lot more than I can say for some of my experiences. Which on the one hand might endear Tesla more (not having dealership franchises). Or not if you'd have to drive 150 miles each way just to drop off your vehicle to get a door handle motor replaced.

kbob 11y ago

>I didn't realize how much cars suck, even luxury cars, till I spent a day driving an S up and down the PCH. No comment on how much other roads suck, after a day driving up and down the PCH? More seriously, do you think spending the day on the PCH colored your perception of the Tesla?

ryanmarsh 11y ago
Yes the PCH could bias, obvi. I also sat in traffic too though. I had to get there from SF first. Everything about the car was just right. I was impressed at every turn (pun unintended).
- kbob 11y ago
  I test drove a Model S last month too, on mundane roads. I was also mightily impressed. But not enough to place an order -- the car still felt too big to be comfortable, especially in parking lots. I did reserve a Model 3.
- mikeash 11y ago
  If you had Autopilot, then sitting in traffic is going to bias you even more! That's really where it shines. I mean, traffic sucks no matter what, but the ability to just tell the car to handle and sit back and relax is pretty amazing. Of course, I don't know if that really counts as bias, since sitting in traffic is actually a representative task.

MagnumOpus 11y ago

> OTOH the Model S is the most well manufactured anything I've ever sat in That is one anecdotal. A much more interesting one is that Tesla is so bad at QC that even the most die-hard Tesla fans are now building checklists to do the quality control that the factory skimped on [1]. It is also rather silly to compare Tesla interior/exterior design or reliability with the big three - it is well known that they are good at neither. Pick a Lexus or a Honda/Acura or an Audi or a Mercedes and see what you get for your money there... [1] https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-delivery-checklist.60648/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-delivery-che...

codeulike 11y ago
That checklist is for sig model Xs, the first ones off the production line. Not quite the same as the Model S which Tesla have made over 100,000 of.
rsync 11y ago
"It is also rather silly to compare Tesla interior/exterior design or reliability with the big three - it is well known that they are good at neither. Pick a Lexus or a Honda/Acura or an Audi or a Mercedes and see what you get for your money there..." I'll save you some time ... The interior of the lowest end BMW/Merc/Audi cars (3series/C-Class/A4) are so much nicer than the interior of a model S so as to be stupefying.
- grecy 11y ago
  > The interior of the lowest end BMW/Merc/Audi cars (3series/C-Class/A4) are so much nicer than the interior of a model S so as to be stupefying. You can choose a drive train that has been more-or-less unchanged for many decades, with all the money spent on the interior, or you can choose a revolutionary drive train, with a basic interior. It's simply your choice.
  - recursive 11y ago
    The Tesla apologist rhetoric is getting a little hard to follow. Which is it? Are Teslas the best-manufactured anything? Or are they lacking because they're so revolutionary?

towndrunk 11y ago

You have a rebadged Chevy Tahoe... take a look at what Audi provides if you want a real comparison.

ecopoesis 11y ago

> OTOH the Model S is the most well manufactured anything I've ever sat in Edmunds long term Tesla Model S needed its drivetrain replaced twice[1].That doesn't seem very well made to me. [1] http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-drive-unit-iv-the-milling.html http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-tes...

forgetsusername 11y ago
>That doesn't seem very well made to me. Disclaimer: I think the Model S is a good car. It's an unsubstantiated myth, just like the Tesla is the safest and fastest car on the road. The fact is, we don't know much about the maintenance record of these cars, because there aren't that many and they haven't been on the road long.
- ryanmarsh 11y ago
  Even if they aren't 5 stars in reliability they make 50,000 a year and are fairly young. I'm sure they'll figure it out. GM has had more than enough time to get it right.

forgetsusername 11y ago

>OTOH the Model S is the most well manufactured anything I've ever sat in. The Tesla forums have quite a few people complaining about blown drive units, missing paint, stuck doors...this is for a low volume car. From an outsiders view, I'm not sure your experience with 1 GM and 0 Teslas is relevant.

tryitnow 11y ago

People are baffled by Tesla's success? I don't really follow cars, but I do know that Tesla gets high marks from a lot of different independent organizations. Besides the whole electric car thing, there seemed to be a general opportunity in the auto industry for an upstart firm. It looks like a classic oligopoly where the incumbents got lazy. Tesla is doing to everyone what the Japanese did to the Americans in the 70s and 80s. Outcompeting the complacent incumbents.

jrcii 11y ago

Hopefully Tesla doesn't end up crushed by blood-sucking union pension liabilities and can afford to continue making a marketable product.

sremani 11y ago

I own the highest customer satisfaction Auto GM makes Chevy Volt. The instant torque and a very practical AER, and they do it for 33K (without tax credit) for a car available right now. I have 2014 Volt am extremely happy, and do recommend the 2017 Volt which is a much better version retaining its original identity. But TSLA is the darling of the press, rightfully or other wise. But at a Pound for Pound level, Gen2 Volt is an excellent choice. Unfortunately now those 250K people who reserved a Model 3 could be driving a EV right now and making an impact instead of waiting for 3 more years. One thing is sure, Cars are not like Phones, you see People with Phones but you see People in the Cars, so once there is a bit of saturation of Model 3 on west coast, people will look around and "discover" Bolt EV or who knows may be Volt.

ryanmarsh 11y ago
When the S ships do you suppose you would still pay 33k for a Volt?
- dragontamer 11y ago
  Considering that you can fill up the Volt with gasoline for long-term trips, that's a major plus for me. You get the battery for daily usage, and the electric generator for long trips. That's a lot more practical than waiting 30 minutes every ~200 miles on the supercharger network. GM has utterly solved the "range anxiety" problem entirely, with only a 40-mile electric battery.
  - chc 11y ago
    You could just as well say the Ford Mustang solves the range anxiety problem by relying on gas. Making a gas-powered vehicle isn't solving range anxiety, because the range anxiety problem relates to electric vehicles. The Volt is a hybrid, like the Prius. Hybrids never had range anxiety associated with them.
    - dragontamer 11y ago
      The Volt is a hybrid that is in 100% electric mode for the vast, vast majority of the time. There's a big difference between an electric-assist Prius and an electric-first plus Gasoline Generator Volt. The Prius is always burning gasoline, while the Volt only starts burning gas when it runs low on charge. There's a newer model Prius (ie: Prius Prime) that has 20-miles of pure electric range, but that's not even enough to get me from home to work and back. In practice, I'd have to keep the Prius in gasoline / hybrid mode even for a daily commute. In contrast, the Volt's 40-mile pure electric range is a big deal changer. Again, the Volt is a pure electric vehicle with a generator. The Prius is a hybrid engine (and the Prius Prime is a hybrid engine that can shut off the gasoline feed, but is still a hybrid engine nonetheless). I'd say the standard Prius is closer to the Malibu Hybrid, or other hybrids. But the plug-in pure electric mode of the Volt (and the recent Prius Prime) almost demands a new category.

brightball 11y ago

I leased a Volt for 3 years and loved it. I still don't understand why anybody would want a Tesla over a Volt for anything other than a fashion statement. The Volt was excellent and really just needed some refinement on the interior consoles. Drove well. Had great pickup. Unlimited range via gas generator that gets 37 mpg if you need to take it more than the battery's 40 miles. Love that car and still miss it.