12 ms·
Yes. I lobbied several companies to terminate their enterpise contracts with github because of their racist attitudes. All switched within 2 weeks. Some to VS T
by TheLogothete 11y ago
Yes. I lobbied several companies to terminate their enterpise contracts with github because of their racist attitudes. All switched within 2 weeks. Some to VS Team Services, some to Gitlab. My work projects went to MSFT, but I think I will transfer my side projects to gitlab from bitbucket, since they have pages now.
- d33 11y agoRacist attitudes? Interesting - not sure what you're talking about. Could you link a source?
- mantas 11y agoTheLogothete is probably talking about http://www.businessinsider.com/diversity-guru-discusses-white-women-2016-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/diversity-guru-discusses-whit...
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- TheLogothete 11y agohttp://static4.businessinsider.com/image/56b3d2f12e526555008b505e-791-385/danilo%20campos-tweet.png http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/56b3d2f12e526555008... http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/56b3d2462e526543008b5049-705-529/nicole%20sanchez-diversity-training2.png http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/56b3d2462e526543008...
- someonenewer 11y agoTheir new 'social impact team' isn't a fan of white people https://twitter.com/_danilo/status/690601512813367297 https://twitter.com/_danilo/status/690601512813367297 http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/02/08/report-anti-white-agenda-revealed-at-githubs-diversity-team/ http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/02/08/report-anti-white-a...
- mrks_ 11y agoWow, that tweet is blatantly racist. I'm somewhat surprised that this wasn't made into a bigger deal. Or, if it was, that I somehow missed it.
- the_rosentotter 11y agoThis is the world's smallest violin, playing just for the white people. Save the outrage for people who are actually discriminated against.
- eugeneionesco 11y ago>Save the outrage for people who are actually discriminated against How about white people at Github?
- ceejayoz 11y agoIs there any indication they're suffering actual discrimination? Pay gaps, harassment, disproportionately not-hired or fired?
- kelukelugames 11y agoYes, my sense of entitlement is being challenged.
- ArtDev 11y agoLike all racism, how much you encounter it really depends on where you live. A white person living in the Big Island of Hawaii.. almost daily.
- ceejayoz 11y agoUnless Github's located in Hawaii, I'm not sure how that's relevant. Github is predominantly white and located in SF. Are white employees there suffering significant "actual discrimination" as the post a couple levels up alleges?
- huac 11y agoIt hasn't stopped them from hiring white men, don't worry
- huac 11y agoIt hasn't stopped them from hiring white men, don't worry
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- copperx 11y ago> racist attitudes Do you mind explaining this a little bit?
- TheLogothete 11y agoHere is a whole thread about it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11049067 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11049067
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- alex_hitchins 11y agoDo you have a link to anything I could read up on regards to the "racist attitudes" you mention? Genuinly interested. I have heard some negative things about their environment, but nothing regards to racism. EDIT : I see the links below now.
- scient 11y agoIm still amazed how people actually have time for this SJW stuff in the actual real world.
- d33 11y agoThought I'd leave it here given that I just googled the term: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SJW https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SJW
- nikojn 11y agoHow have you managed to escape it for this long? Seriously, what's your secret please for the love of God let me know
- vinay427 11y agoNot the person you replied to, but I personally avoided it for a long time by avoiding the comments on [political/news/gender]-focused forums and subreddits. It isn't exactly a mainstream term.
- senthil_rajasek 11y agoyes, sometimes stuff happens to "ordinary people" and their life is ruined. They have no choice but become participants rather than mere by standers that is how social change happens. ( edited for grammar)
- bobwaycott 11y agoDoes that extend to how you actually had time to comment just for the sake of casting some pejorative insult at another random stranger on the internet?
- phjesusthatguy3 11y agoYes, how do you do it? It's gotten to the point where the use of SJW is just shorthand for "I know I'm wrong, I just preferred it when people knew their place"
- kelukelugames 11y agoSensitive people enjoy being outraged.
- JustSomeNobody 11y agoDon't confuse being sensitive with being wronged. No matter one's ethnicity, one should be against discrimination.
- kelukelugames 11y agoI don't think I should be hired to run gender initiatives. Guess I'm a sexist.
- soundwave106 11y agoWould you want to work at a company which has a bullet point "some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women"? That one struck me as particularly egregious. If you said that completely out of context, the average person is going to picture this coming out of some chauvinist white male. Ironically, it's coming out of people aiming for "diversity". Even in context, apparently the background is an article called the "Trouble With White Women" (http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2014/01/28/trouble-white-women-white-feminism/ http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2014/01/28/trouble-white-wo...). It's hard to take seriously this article when it pretty much begins with the well known "friend argument" used by racists everywhere (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Friend_argument http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Friend_argument). While these people may be discussing some legitimate biases, countering racism / sexism with reverse racism / reverse sexism is completely wrongheaded.
- kelukelugames 11y agoI suggest you read the criticisms of 1st and 2nd wave feminism. Historically, mainstream feminism has not been supportive of women of color.
- revanx_ 11y agoI remember when github adopted the Code of Conduct, it was a clear sign for me that it was time to switch. All they need now is the equivalent of Twitter's "Safety Council" to complete the SJW combo.
- tootie 11y agoThey should have just had the Code of Conduct from day 1 and not waited until they had an incident to overreact to. I've worked for many places with Codes of Conduct and diversity programs and they are usually run pretty well and are not heavy-handed or staffed with exuberant amateurs. There are proven benefits and established best practices to get it done.
- gpm 11y agoThe problem isn't with codes of conduct in the abstract, but with the specific code of conduct that GitHub used. It explicitly permits racism, sexism, and cisphobia as long as they aren't against the wrong groups: > Our open source community prioritizes marginalized people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort. We will not act on complaints regarding: > > ‘Reverse’ -isms, including ‘reverse racism,’ ‘reverse sexism,’ and ‘cisphobia’
- sooheon 11y agoThis reads like a parody. An actual successful company thought this deserved codifying?
- revanx_ 11y agoWhat are the proven benefits?
- tootie 11y agoSummary of research http://www.forbes.com/sites/ekaterinawalter/2014/01/14/reaping-the-benefits-of-diversity-for-modern-business-innovation/#56ca2ad86476 http://www.forbes.com/sites/ekaterinawalter/2014/01/14/reapi...
- senthil_rajasek 11y agoSince you turned this into a discussion about race, I am inclined to speak up. Racism and discrimination is about who has power. Caucasians in America have all the power and hence the struggle of the minorities for equality. I admire github for taking a stance in the diversity debate( although I have yet to fully familiarize with the details). I know that people from all demographics desire equality and a more fair world. I'll work towards that world and keep build things.
- victor9000 11y agoRacism and discrimination have nothing to do with power. You're redefining the word so that it allows a particular group to engage in discriminatory behavior while avoiding accountability.
- jshevek 11y agoThe previous speaker, who is definitely involved in an agenda driven redefinition of a word, probably has no conscious desire to engage in discriminatory behavior while avoiding accountability. S/he is almost certainly a well intentioned enabler of those who do wish to engage in discriminatory behavior while avoiding accountability
- oldmanjay 11y agoI'm having difficulty understanding the distinction. Does rewording it make it something it isn't?
- jshevek 11y agoApologies if I misunderstood, but I think you are asking me to clarify that I'm making a distinction between (a) one person allegedly having dishonest intentions and a conscious motive to do X and (b) that same person having better intentions, and doing X by accident. The phrasing of the parent was "You are doing A so that B can happen.", which I thought was presumptive and unfair towards the other party. I've known a lot of people who participate in the subculture of SJWs, and I'm confident that many of them have no conscious desire to be enablers of hatred and bigotry, not even hatred and bigotry towards white males. They simply don't understand the consequences of their beliefs.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- ithinkso 11y agoAnd now HN, my bastion somewhat free of SJW, has fallen down. Aren't there rules here to prevent that?
- dang 11y agoWe detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11431003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11431003 and marked it off-topic.
- kukx 11y agoI'm sad to see that. The subject was arguably right on topic. I get the feeling that it was taken down only because it was inconvenient for someone.
- dang 11y ago> I get the feeling that it was taken down only because it was inconvenient for someone It's a tempting feeling to get, and a contagious one, but no—the only inconvenience we care about is that of HN readers who don't want to read tedious flamewars tacked like burning barnacles onto the top comment. I'm kind of glad you said that, though, because usually the sinister implication goes the other way, Gitlab being a YC-funded startup and all. Speaking of convenience, it's not that inconvenient to scroll down to find the flamewar. Seems like a reasonable balance to me.
- kelukelugames 11y agoHow many up votes does that comment have? I want to know how many HNers are so offended by diversity initiatives that they will lobby companies to boycott github.
- TheLogothete 11y ago45. This is not a diversity initiative. It is a pitchfork initiative. Show the whiteman!
- kelukelugames 11y agoYou shouldn't become outraged so easily.
- Yetanfou 11y agoA remarkably versatile word this has become, 'racism'. It seems to apply to gender, to sexual orientation, sometimes even to unexpected things like taste in music... What happened in the world the last 2-3 years? It feels like someone took a shovel, dug up some old corpses from the graveyard of political culture and set them loose on the world again. Suddenly... ...people who call themselves 'feminist' start calling for what can only be described as a war between the sexes, given that they spout the opinion that males - preferably heterosexual, middle-aged 'white' males - are the cause of anything bad in the world. They obviously did not listen to Joe Jackson when, in 'Real Men', he sang 'and if there is war between the sexes then there will be no people left'. ...people who call themselves 'anti-racist' are trying to pull just about any public debate in a racial direction by claiming that it is all caused by the colour of the skin of whomever they're focusing on. Again, if that skin colour happens to be 'white' the person generally did something heinously wrong, while the same deed performed by someone who saw a bit more sun is either 'understandable' or 'justified' or 'caused by society being mean to (person)'... ...people who call themselves something between 'male' and 'female' start claiming that gender is nothing but a social construct and that there are really more than 50 'genders' and with that is it 'racist' to call someone 'he' or 'she' as it could be that person does not consider him/herself as either of those... Meanwhile the real world is still full of REAL racism - just go and visit any middle-eastern country while being 'black' and you'll soon find out. For some reason the 'anti-racists' don't want to touch this subject, and other who do are quickly labelled 'racist' by them. Meanwhile the real world is still full of REAL gender discrimination - just go and visit most middle-eastern countries (amongst others) while being female and you'll soon find out. The 'feminists' don't seem to want to speak up about this, instead they label those who do as, you guessed it, 'racist'. Meanwhile the real world is still full of REAL discrimination against those with non-mainline sexual orientations. Again, just go to one of those middle-eastern countries I mentioned while being openly homosexual and you'll soon find out. For some reason the 'gender-denialists' are quiet about this, instead labelling those who do speak up as, again, 'racist'.... Meanwhile the position of women in the 'western' world is generally on a level with that of men, give or take a few cases of institutional gender preference. This does not mean that all professions have a 50/50 share of both (yes, both, male and female... not 'all 50') genders, eg. where I live (Sweden) nearly all veterinarians are women, nearly all lumberjacks are men, women are under-represented in IT but overrepresented in social functions, etc. Is this bad? Not necessarily, it depends on WHY there is a discrepancy. Is it because men are not allowed in veterinary college? Are women not allowed near computers? Of course not, this seems to be a case of personal choice. Are women incapable of handling chainsaws? No, they are not, but they are generally less strong than men and they don't feel at home in a group of men who talk about their favourite subjects of hunting, fishing and riding snow scooters (to take an example from our local - Swedish - culture). Does that mean those lumberjacks need to go to some re-education camp to learn to talk about more gender-neutral subjects? Of course not. Should women go to re-education camps to learn to talk about hunting, fishing and snow-scooter riding? No! Should there be male quota for vet schools to combat their under-representation in this field? No, if men want to become vets they can go to vet school. Something seems to keep them from doing that, maybe the fact that the field is female-dominated? Fortunately there is no war between the sexes and men and women still get together to create more men and women. They create 'white' ones, brown ones, 'black' ones, 'yellow' ones, 'red' ones, etc. New humans who come to this world without prejudice about the colour of their skin, and - if they are lucky enough to live in one of those western countries which are largely free of REAL racism - should be able to live their lives to the fullest - unless the 'feminists', 'anti-racists', 'gender-denialists' (for lack of a better word) and other similarly befuddled people are successful in derailing the progress of the last few hundred years and throw us back into struggle and strife. It is almost as if all these 'isms' (feminism, anti-racism, etc) are worried of becoming irrelevant due to the progress made on these fronts in the 'west' and started looking around for new 'causes'...