4 ms·

I think this article does a good job covering the second best way of selecting programmers - the technical job interview. The best "interviews" aren't really i

by geebee 17y ago

I think this article does a good job covering the second best way of selecting programmers - the technical job interview. The best "interviews" aren't really interviews, though, they're recruiting sessions. A really strong, experienced software development manager who plans to employ programmers should have 1) a strong background in programming, and 2) a strong network of programmers who would jump at the chance to work with him again. You already know your potential hires are good programmers, because you've worked with them before - in school, on side projects, at work, in various collaborations. You don't need to ask them to print all the nodes in a binary tree, and if you did, well, you'd probably lose the candidate. I think Joel (on software) put it this way (I'm paraphrasing): if you're a small independent film maker, and Uma Thurman expresses an interest in your movie, you don't ask her to audition, you ask what you can do to get her on board. I think 37Signals is another example of a company that mainly recruits people they already know through programming projects (esp contributions to rails). I won't say the technical interview is evidence of a "broken" recruiting system the way some people do, because let's face it, we don't all have the recruiting mystique to wave the magic wand and get top people to join us, and our networks just aren't big enough. So we have to interview relative unknowns. But I will readily admit that this shows that I'm not doing it the best way. This goes both ways. If I'm in an interview and people start asking me how to implement a singleton, I start to wonder if I'm going about my job search the wrong way. If I have to ask the candidate this, then maybe I'm going about the recruitment in the wrong way as well. But if that's your reality, then yeah, make sure you screen well.

barrkel 17y ago
Except that even headline actors do audition - if the role is good, there will be competition.
- geebee 17y ago
  Wow, I didn't know that. Brad Pitt actually has to audition for roles? Jeez. Well, that's the problem with analogies. But I'm not really a fundamentalist about the code test. I've gone through many, many, many of them. I just had a little epiphany the last time I was in one. I was thinking, "why don't these guys already know that I'm a good programmer? Why don't they already know good programmers?" It made me realize as a programmer and as a manager that I wasn't really building my career the right way. I decided that I wanted to build a network and a reputation that went both ways - essentially, I wanted to have a large number of people out there, in different organizations, who are both confident in my tech skills and my value as a manager. I'll step outside that network constantly, and when I do, I'll certainly validate programming ability (and I'd expect people to do the same for me). But every time I do this, it's a reminder that I failed on Plan A, which is the best way to do things.
  - jimbokun 17y ago
    "I decided that I wanted to build a network and a reputation that went both ways - essentially, I wanted to have a large number of people out there, in different organizations, who are both confident in my tech skills and my value as a manager." How did you accomplish this?
    - geebee 17y ago
      Well, I can't entirely say that I did! So far, it hasn't been much more than doing a decent job in the different positions I've held, and working in a few different industry sectors. I've worked for a large silicon valley company, a couple of public sector organizations, and a couple of small startups, and I've taken on management and dev roles. I keep up my contacts. When the startup I was working for folded, I got a bunch of interviews (lots of tech questions), but my best offer came from a former coworker who didn't bother with a tech test because he'd already worked with me. While I wish I could say I'd done more (presented at conferences, made big contributions to open source, etc...), but in some ways this is a better story, because people start to think that if they need to be a total rock star. You really don't have to, just keep up your contacts and make sure you have a reputation for good work.
- waterlesscloud 17y ago
  Top actors rarely audition, even for top roles. In a case like that, the process more closely resembles an interview. It's really more meeting to discuss the concepts of the role.

by geebee 17y ago

barrkel 17y ago

Except that even headline actors do audition - if the role is good, there will be competition.

geebee 17y ago
Wow, I didn't know that. Brad Pitt actually has to audition for roles? Jeez. Well, that's the problem with analogies. But I'm not really a fundamentalist about the code test. I've gone through many, many, many of them. I just had a little epiphany the last time I was in one. I was thinking, "why don't these guys already know that I'm a good programmer? Why don't they already know good programmers?" It made me realize as a programmer and as a manager that I wasn't really building my career the right way. I decided that I wanted to build a network and a reputation that went both ways - essentially, I wanted to have a large number of people out there, in different organizations, who are both confident in my tech skills and my value as a manager. I'll step outside that network constantly, and when I do, I'll certainly validate programming ability (and I'd expect people to do the same for me). But every time I do this, it's a reminder that I failed on Plan A, which is the best way to do things.
- jimbokun 17y ago
  "I decided that I wanted to build a network and a reputation that went both ways - essentially, I wanted to have a large number of people out there, in different organizations, who are both confident in my tech skills and my value as a manager." How did you accomplish this?
  - geebee 17y ago
    Well, I can't entirely say that I did! So far, it hasn't been much more than doing a decent job in the different positions I've held, and working in a few different industry sectors. I've worked for a large silicon valley company, a couple of public sector organizations, and a couple of small startups, and I've taken on management and dev roles. I keep up my contacts. When the startup I was working for folded, I got a bunch of interviews (lots of tech questions), but my best offer came from a former coworker who didn't bother with a tech test because he'd already worked with me. While I wish I could say I'd done more (presented at conferences, made big contributions to open source, etc...), but in some ways this is a better story, because people start to think that if they need to be a total rock star. You really don't have to, just keep up your contacts and make sure you have a reputation for good work.
waterlesscloud 17y ago
Top actors rarely audition, even for top roles. In a case like that, the process more closely resembles an interview. It's really more meeting to discuss the concepts of the role.