11 ms·

Taxi, Uber, and Lyft Usage in New York City

117 points by lil_tee 11y ago

kdamken 11y ago
Most of the people I've talked to in my age group (mid twenties to early thirties) adamantly avoid taking a taxi whenever possible. The reasons why have been beaten to death by now, but they include: - Uber's show up on time, and I can track them using an app. Before Uber, I had to call a cab company, hope someone would answer, be told I'd have to wait 45 minutes to an hour, then hope the taxi would actually show up. - For almost all of the Uber's I've taken, if the car wasn't on the newer end, it was at least clean. I've never been in a taxi and thought "Wow! They really take care of these things." I usually get out feeling like I need a shower. - The rating system (which goes both ways, your driver rates you as well) helps ensure that they want to provide a good experience for you. Taxi drivers have no motivation - most people won't call a hotline to report and issue vs just choosing a star rating on their phone. - The price is reasonable, and I get an estimate before leaving. I hate how taxies just go without any idea of what you'll be paying. It's even worse when you're in a city you don't know, and you're unsure if they're taking the best route. - Most taxi drivers I've met have been incredibly rude and impatient, and then expect a 20% tip. On top of that, I've had a bunch of them lie and say they don't accept credit cards after the trip is complete, even though there is a sign that says they are legally required to. "The machine is broken" isn't a valid excuse. - With Uber, I don't have to worry about them awkwardly watching me decide how much to tip, it's included in the price. I don't even have to worry about figuring out how to pay! I just get out and go and it's automatically charged to my card. I'm surprised when I hear that people are in favor of saving taxies. Yes, Uber and Lyft should probably be a bit more regulated. But taxies were doing so many things almost comically wrong for so long, it's not surprising a competitor has come along and been successful.
- pinaceae 11y ago
  I guess it depends on where in NYC. Currently staying in Manhattan - why wait for an Uber if you can simply flag down a cab? And all of them have the CC terminals in them now, when did you last get one without? My last Uber experience here was shit btw, the location near the WTC memorial was slightly off, the driver would not drive over where I told him to - I had my whole family incl. a toddler in a stroller. Fuck him then, flagged down a cab and off we went. YMMV
  - carbocation 11y ago
    The point isn't that taxis don't have credit card terminals. It is that people often state that the terminal is nonfunctional, defeating the purpose. In Baltimore, this was the norm; I suspect Manhattan is better.
    - cballard 11y ago
      In New York, taxis are required to have functioning credit card machines. http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/passenger_creditcard.shtml http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/passenger_creditc...
      - kdamken 11y ago
        They are required in lots of places, but people don't always follow the law. It's not surprising to hear the old "the machine is broken, need cash" excuse.
        cballard 11y ago
        It's really not an issue in New York. 311/TLC doesn't mess around with this.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        BookmarkSaver 11y ago
        I never really understood that. A cab driver told me that once, so I told him that I was leaving without paying. Even if he wasn't lying, I accept no responsibility for their broken equipment.
        MiddleEndian 11y ago
        Not sure about the law in other places, but in Boston that's too bad for them. You can just get out of the cab without paying if their machine doesn't work.
      - 11y ago
- thecopy 11y ago
  I agree with everything but: >Uber and Lyft should probably be a bit more regulated The reason behind the taxi situation now is _because_ it is regulated. Regulation never helps the end-consumers, it helps the big corporations hold out competition.
  - pboutros 11y ago
    >Regulation never helps the end-consumers The FDA, FDIC, and other acronyms would like to have a word with you.
    - endymi0n 11y ago
      Also, at least in Germany, there's some responsibilities that official taxies have in exchange for their quasi-monopoly - transportation duty for example. This is a double-edged sword as well when thinking about needing to drive a drunk, mentally ill or homeless person, but this is critical for elderly or disabled people. My wife was once refused transportation by a taxi driver when she had just to go two kilometers from the airport with a broken leg (granted, shitty situation for both sides here) - and she got compensation and another driver from the taxi central immediately. While I'm with you on better regulation, blind deregulation has too much collateral damage IMHO.
      - Apocryphon 11y ago
        The problem with the U.S. is that there tends not to be a complete absence of regulation, but regulation that is often poorly designed and/or executed. It's sort of why for decades the American government has spent huge amounts on healthcare, despite politicians bashing the notion of universal healthcare at every turn. I definitely agree that the solution should be better regulation.
    - baddox 11y ago
      Plenty of people would debate whether those programs are a net benefit.
  - Aleman360 11y ago
- kzhahou 11y ago
  There's another reason I've wondered about. It's not politically correct. All the Ubers I've used had white or sometimes Hispanic-American drivers. But taxis have all (except for Portland) been either African (esp ~ethiopian), Palestinian, some region of India I can't place, etc. They're dominated by recent immigrants. So I wonder if average young white couple on their way to dinner or whatever, simply likes the white-driver experience.
  - habosa 11y ago
    I have noticed a definite racial tinge to the conversation when people talk about preferring their Uber drivers. Even if it's not overt racism, there is unconscious bias at play. I have also noticed that when I get matched with a black Uber or Lyft driver they tend to have a low-ish rating (4.6-4.8 whereas most white drivers I get are 4.8-5.0) but I have not personally found drivers of any race to be any less skilled or courteous.
    - AJ007 11y ago
      At some point a government agency will collect driver racial data from Uber and the results won't be pretty.
      - potatolicious 11y ago
        Messy for Uber? Unless they've been discriminating against drivers by race themselves they're in the clear. If driver race-rating data was ever publicized it'll be most damning against society in general, I think. I'd wager that Uber's passenger base is substantially more discriminatory than the company can hope to be on its most evil day. The 5-star rating system is cover for a lot of things that I think everyone knows to some extent but doesn't enjoy thinking about.
    - EdHominem 11y ago
      Have you ever noticed that closet racists see racism everywhere?
  - BookmarkSaver 11y ago
- manuelflara 11y ago
  Another awesome benefit of using Uber I didn't realize until I started using it: you get a detailed invoice of each trip you take on your phone, instead of having to ask for a paper one to the driver, wait for it to be printed and then actually make sure you don't lose it. And that's not all! Uber's invoice includes a map of your route, so you'd be able to see if the uber drive "tried to scam you" by taking a longer road or by making a bunch of unnecessary turns. This is incredibly useful as it's a common practice (at least in my side of the world) with taxi drivers and tourists, and of course Uber drivers won't try to pull it off as they know you'll notice, even if you're not from there. One day our driver made a bunch of mistakes (he admitted as much) driving us home and we ended up with a, say, 20% extra rate for that ride than we'd normally get. This was in Mexico City btw. On the email invoice I could clearly see the funny way we took. I replied to Uber, explained the situation, and within 48 hours they reimbursed me for a chunk of the cost of the ride. If that isn't an absolutely delightful experience overall, I don't know what is. I know Uber as a company is guilty of some predatory behavior to drivers, ignores current legislation for profit and they'll put all their drivers out of a job as soon as they can get their whole fleet to drive itself. But dammit, if they're growing so much and they have so much of support is because the user experience is bliss.
  - Larrikin 11y ago
    Wait I was under the impression that Uber and Lyft eliminated the ability to scam someone by driving around simply by making it a fixed rate to the destination once you're in the vehicle. Whats the reasoning for allowing someone to go off course?
    - kctess5 11y ago
      It's not a fixed rate, there's a time and distance component. The time component is presumably to account for the drivers time wasted when traffic is high.
    - stickydink 11y ago
      You can get an estimate easily, but the final price for an UberX is a function of distance and time, just like a taxi. I have had a few occasions where my driver's taken the wrong route. Not intentionally, I don't think, but a wrong turn here or there in a one-way system can really screw it up. Each time that's happened, I leave a not-5-star rating. Within a few hours, Uber have sent me an email. I reply to that explaining the route, they take a look at the map, and every single time I've received either the difference in cost for a regular trip (if it's one I can show I've taken multiple times), or a full refund. There are sometimes UberPool deals, where they'll offer a fixed price to go from and to anywhere within a certain region.
- ethosa 11y ago
  As pinaceae says below, a few of these are non-issues. NYC taxies always have working credit card machines, are relatively clean, drivers are usually polite enough. In my experience (Manhattan), all taxi services have about the same service, and about the same pricing, with some special variations. Anecdotally, Most people I know have Uber, Lyft, and Gett (a third service not mentioned in this article) on their phone. When they need to go somewhere, they request a ride on multiple services, usually taking the one with the fastest pickup lowest rate. But, at any point in the process, if there is a taxi driving by then they will just hail it down and cancel the ride requests. Personally, I will default to the Gett $10 below 110st deal, then check Uber and Lyft. Sometimes I will take a taxi if it's there. Since the real benefit of taxi request services is not waiting, if taking a taxi would be faster, then that is what I will default to.
  - johnbellone 11y ago
    When is the last time that you have been in a Manhattan taxi? I travel to NYC a few times a month and tend to prefer yellow cabs out of habit. But I definitely would not consider them clean when comparing Uber. Maybe it is because of the "black car" lineage of Uber, but the car is generally spotless, not sticky and relatively new. On the other hand, the yellow cabs look outwardly new and clean but on the inside are torn up.
- EdHominem 11y ago
  The only reason I've ever heard for saving taxis is that they paid for medallions and should benefit to the exclusion of people who weren't allowed to buy medallions. I'm happy to let their graft payments go to waste. Those who collaborate with such rules don't deserve our protection in the end.
  - dionidium 11y ago
    If that's the only argument you've heard for taxis or against ride-sharing, then I'll submit to you that you haven't done much research on this topic.
    - EdHominem 11y ago
      How do you equate an argument against Uber with an argument for taxis?
- Camillo 11y ago
  There may be a cultural aspect, too. When I was a kid, taxis were for rich people or businessmen. Even if I can afford it now, it just feels like an extravagance to take a taxi. Of course, the lack of price transparency means this bias is never going to be eroded. In my mind, a taxi is going to cost $50 for even the shortest trip, and so I never even bother.
- dionidium 11y ago
  Counterpoint: * Uber drivers often have no idea how to get around. In my city, they're often suburbanites who have come in to drive the drinking crowd to three or four entertainment strips. Venture outside of that and they don't even know where they are. * The worst experiences I've ever had being driven by anyone in any context have been in Uber. My theory is that because people are in their own personal cars, they feel justified driving just like they do when they're alone. Whatever the cause, I have had some truly dangerous drivers. * I don't necessarily need or desire a complete detailed history of every ride I've ever taken. There are huge potential privacy concerns.
  - karmelapple 11y ago
    Counter-counter: * Turn-by-turn largely takes care of this, and most drivers I've had are amenable to a friendly suggestion of, "go this way, it's a little easier." * I've never had a problem. Definitely have had more crazy / dangerous taxi cab drivers - especially in Florida, whatever that anecdotal point may be worth. * Being able to opt in/out would be nice for data collection purposes. But I think many people would appreciate that paper trail, especially for business purposes.
    - dionidium 11y ago
      These are fair responses, but I'd like to push back on the idea that turn-by-turn is a suitable replacement for experience. In practice, an Uber driver relying on GPS in a neighborhood he's unfamiliar with is a driver who is making a lot of wrong turns, using streets that have better alternatives, and sometimes even attempting to use routes that are closed.
      - stormbrew 11y ago
        On the other hand, it's sometimes a problem that you 'trust' the taxi driver to know the best route, since there's no guarantee they're actually using it (if you're in a strange city or going somewhere unfamiliar). I honestly prefer they use a GPS because at least then I know the source of their choices. Sometimes that means it takes a little longer to get there, but I'm comfortable with that tradeoff. YMMV.
- stormbrew 11y ago
  > - Most taxi drivers I've met have been incredibly rude and impatient, and then expect a 20% tip. On top of that, I've had a bunch of them lie and say they don't accept credit cards after the trip is complete, even though there is a sign that says they are legally required to. "The machine is broken" isn't a valid excuse. I commented about this to a taxi driver once, and in a moment of surprising candidness, he told me that one reason this happens is because the taxi company he get dispatch from doesn't pay out credit card payments for something like a month and a half (obviously different companies and different cities will be different here), so drivers who are tight at bill time will insist on cash so they can make ends meet. I asked an Uber driver and they said they get paid every 2 weeks or so.
  - baddox 11y ago
    The last two times I used a taxi in SF, the driver scanned my card using a Square Reader. I presume they are using their personal accounts to avoid some of the hassle of the official taxi card readers. I also presume that the taxi companies might not like that.
- jads 11y ago
  Having lived in London for a number of years before moving to NY in Jan, I have an intense, burning hatred of cab companies (whether it's the London black cab or New York's yellow cab). I will always, always use Lyft/Uber wherever possible. My reasons for hatred include: - After arriving into JFK, I'd used up all my battery on the flight so decided, rather than wait to charge my phone at the airport, I'd get a local cab instead. The cab driver took me to Brooklyn. We passed La Guardia. After a heated argument, it still cost over 3x what it would've cost with Uber. - Since I have a British accent, NY cabbies often assume I'm a tourist and will try and take the long way round (seriously, La Guardia?). I've had to correct them on more than one occasion about which route to take and they are always shocked when I start telling them which bridge to cross into the city or what street they should use. - In London, I was out with some friends and one woman had missed the last tube home. Night buses from where we were wasn't an option, so we tried to hail a cab. After telling the driver where she needed to go, he told us to "fk off" and drove away. I requested an Uber for her and within 45 minutes, she was safely at home. These are just highlights in the many terrible experiences of cabs, and my experience has been better with any ride sharing service. Why? Because customer ratings affect their ability to offer rides. Cab drivers have no such incentive, even if you call to complain with their medallion number. Unless the cab driver has done something illegal, I doubt anything happens.
- goldbrick 11y ago
  One that's especially relevant in New York is that I never have to worry about a cab trying to get rid of me when they find out I'm going to an outer borough. It's technically illegal but that doesn't stop a lot of them from being shady, plus what are you really going to do? With Uber the driver already knows exactly where I'm going.
andrewpi 11y ago
I knew Lyft was the underdog in NYC (compared to Uber), but they seem to be in real trouble according to this data. In my personal experience, my Uber drivers have seemed better trained than my Lyft drivers in NY, so for the most part I only take Lyft if they are offering me a special promotion. For example, I've had Lyft drivers who seemed confused with how to use their own app.
jpwright 11y ago
I'd be interested to see how successful way2ride has been (as in, how has the percentage of taxi trips originating from way2ride changed over time?) way2ride has been advertised heavily in NYC and offers most of the same features that the Uber app does: seeing nearby cabs, hailing, seeing the cab's location, paying through the app. On the occasional trip where public transportation isn't sufficient, I've used it as an alternative to Uber and had good experiences. In particular, it's useful to dodge surge pricing and in finding a ride in places where Uber drivers don't hang around. * https://www.way2ride.com/user/login.form https://www.way2ride.com/user/login.form
- cballard 11y ago
  There are so many cabs that I don't really see the need for this, and most cabs take Apple Pay now, so I've never really seen the point of this and the other one (is there another one? I think there is?). If I was somewhere where there aren't a lot of cabs I'd probably just use Uber, it's cheaper and cleaner anyways.
- robbiemitchell 11y ago
  Exactly: I use way2ride all the time to pay, and use it to hail when Uber has surge pricing on. It's especially useful for hailing while still inside your apartment.
burritofanatic 11y ago
I've been in NYC for a week, and I've used all three services to get around when needed. Taxi is actually by far the easiest to get a ride on. The reason is being on the correct side of the street and for the car to be traveling in the direction you're headed is crucial. Grabbing a Lyft or Uber may commit a driver to having to turn around the block, which can take several minutes, and in that time, you could have hailed half a dozen taxis.
- mertd 11y ago
  That's only true in the lower half of Manhattan. Good luck hailing a random cab in the middle of the night elsewhere.
  - tomjakubowski 11y ago
    Completely doable on a random weekday or weeknight on Atlantic Ave anywhere west of Barclays Center, in my experience.
    - JBReefer 11y ago
      That's still the urban core. Try it in Glendale and report back.
- Camillo 11y ago
  I do wish Lyft and Uber would just tell me to cross the street for a faster pickup. In many cases, I could even walk a couple of blocks, and from the route on the map I even know exactly where to walk. But I cannot, because the driver would still go to the original location.
  - eric_h 11y ago
    The Uber app has been doing that for me for a few weeks now. "Go here for faster pickup?" or something to that effect.
  - stormbrew 11y ago
dec0dedab0de 11y ago
I haven't tried Lyft yet because my credit card gives me %20 back for taking Uber. Also, average type people don't even know about Lyft. They hear about Uber from all the news coverage, but they don't mention Lyft. Uber is winning the marketing war with Lyft so effectively that it doesn't matter who is better. Now, the only reason I could ever see taking an analog taxi is if my phone was dead.
- kdamken 11y ago
  That's a crazy good cash back percentage - what card is giving you that?
  - habosa 11y ago
    It's a Capital One deal with Uber. 20% cash back, but only for a year I believe.
  - smelendez 11y ago
    Capital One has had this program for about 18 months, but sadly it's about to expire (unless they renew it last minute): https://get.uber.com/cl/capitalone/?type=qs https://get.uber.com/cl/capitalone/?type=qs
- iagooar 11y ago
  I'm curious about how you write "%20", instead of the more common "20%". It's the first time I see it, really. Is there any place in the world where writing the percentage sign before the number is common practice?
  - deleted 11y ago
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  - dec0dedab0de 11y ago
    It's something I mess up often. It just feels more natural to put the modifier before the number like with money.
minimaxir 11y ago
> the graphs on this page will continue to update as the TLC releases more data. Interesting use of Highcharts to this effect, especially with the theming to match your other designs. Is it a good idea in the context of this article to have dynamic data though, as the conclusion might change over time?
kailuowang 11y ago
In NYC (or at least in Manhattan), when taxis are readily available (non-extreme weather), Uber is 2x to 3x less convenient than taxi. When taxis aren't readily available i.e. extreme weather, Uber is 3x - 5x more expensive than taxi and still takes forever to get one. I believe that Uber in NYC will remain a niche player. But I do appreciate some competition against the taxis.
- mattmanser 11y ago
  Did you read the article? This is not 'niche': http://toddwschneider.com/data/taxi/taxi_uber_lyft_trips_per_day.png http://toddwschneider.com/data/taxi/taxi_uber_lyft_trips_per...
amelius 11y ago
> Taxi, Uber, and Lyft Usage I wish we had access to such numbers for apps on the App store.
homero 11y ago
Taxis are beyond dead as millennials grow up and further generations vomit at the thought of a taxi
jeffisbest 11y ago
thw name is basicllydowrk
roldie 11y ago
I don't have any data to back up my anecdote, but here in Austin, Lyft seems to be much more popular than Uber, and both are more popular than taxis. My friends and I all prefer Lyft as riders. This is due to equal if not higher availability, and limited surge pricing compared to Uber. Drivers have been pretty friendly as well. I always ask the driver if they drive for both, and which they prefer. Every driver I've had has preferred Lyft due to it giving more back money back to the driver, a strong driver community, and simpler onboarding process. Some of this could be due to city culture, where Austin seems to line up much more with Lyft's character than New York.
- deleted 11y ago
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- imbeau 11y ago
  Same story in Boston, except that most of my friends still take Uber. I've had far better experiences riding with Lyft drivers and the drivers seem to enjoy working with Lyft a lot more. Uber is my backup option now if there are no Lyfts available.
- llamataboot 11y ago
  Here in Minneapolis, Lyft seems more popular among my crowd, but people still use "Uber" for the verb a lot. Like at least once a week I hear some variation on: Person 1: "Are we ubering to the game tonight?" Person 2: "Yeah, I'll call a lyft in like 10 minutes" Which to me is really interesting from a linguistic standpoint. (Both that Uber became a verb so quick, and that it is becoming a generic term already). Incidentally, I've heard people say "lyfting" as well, but that always has referred to getting an actual Lyft, whereas "ubering" seems to refer to both just fine.
- erikpukinskis 11y ago
  Lyft/Uber seem to split on the Friendly/Professional preference, so it makes sense to me that Uber would do better in cities like New York and Boston while Lyft does better in cities like Austin and Minneapolis. I've heard many people say they like Uber because the drivers shut up and have nice cars. I've heard other people say they like Lyft because the drivers are friendly people in normal cars and it feels more like a friend giving you a ride.
deleted 11y ago
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xufi 11y ago
My friend who lives in NYC now was telling me about this The taxi drivers themselves also have a medallion system which has severely been devalued for decades and since Uber is taking a piece of their cake, slowly and slowly they'll be phased out
notirk 11y ago
Interesting there is no mention of the Boro (Green) taxis. 6,000 medallions were released in 2013 (with plans to release another 6,000 a year for a total of 18,000.) That's a large swing on the supply side compared to the ~13K yellow taxis that I think would also have an impact on the 2010 onwards trips graph. http://toddwschneider.com/data/taxi/taxi_uber_lyft_trips_per_day.png http://toddwschneider.com/data/taxi/taxi_uber_lyft_trips_per...
99_00 11y ago
Once Uber dominates the market everyone is going to learn, the hard way, why taxis used to be a regulated industry.
kentosi 11y ago
One thing I like about taxis is the meter itself: If you're stuck in a traffic jam you can check the current price and decide if it's worth staying in the taxi or hopping out (after paying). Is there any technical reason why Uber can't present a meter in the app that you can look at intermittently?
nyk2016 11y ago
To offer some points in favor of taxis: 1) taxis can be more convenient for older people who are less tech-savvy and can't fully utilize smartphones (think seniors); 2) I'm not sure if you can request this on Uber, but some taxis are wheelchair accessible and they have the proper equipment for loading/unloading. You can try it with a minivan Uber but a taxi would be preferable in this case.

117 points by lil_tee 11y ago

Most of the people I've talked to in my age group (mid twenties to early thirties) adamantly avoid taking a taxi whenever possible. The reasons why have been beaten to death by now, but they include: - Uber's show up on time, and I can track them using an app. Before Uber, I had to call a cab company, hope someone would answer, be told I'd have to wait 45 minutes to an hour, then hope the taxi would actually show up. - For almost all of the Uber's I've taken, if the car wasn't on the newer end, it was at least clean. I've never been in a taxi and thought "Wow! They really take care of these things." I usually get out feeling like I need a shower. - The rating system (which goes both ways, your driver rates you as well) helps ensure that they want to provide a good experience for you. Taxi drivers have no motivation - most people won't call a hotline to report and issue vs just choosing a star rating on their phone. - The price is reasonable, and I get an estimate before leaving. I hate how taxies just go without any idea of what you'll be paying. It's even worse when you're in a city you don't know, and you're unsure if they're taking the best route. - Most taxi drivers I've met have been incredibly rude and impatient, and then expect a 20% tip. On top of that, I've had a bunch of them lie and say they don't accept credit cards after the trip is complete, even though there is a sign that says they are legally required to. "The machine is broken" isn't a valid excuse. - With Uber, I don't have to worry about them awkwardly watching me decide how much to tip, it's included in the price. I don't even have to worry about figuring out how to pay! I just get out and go and it's automatically charged to my card. I'm surprised when I hear that people are in favor of saving taxies. Yes, Uber and Lyft should probably be a bit more regulated. But taxies were doing so many things almost comically wrong for so long, it's not surprising a competitor has come along and been successful.

pinaceae 11y ago
I guess it depends on where in NYC. Currently staying in Manhattan - why wait for an Uber if you can simply flag down a cab? And all of them have the CC terminals in them now, when did you last get one without? My last Uber experience here was shit btw, the location near the WTC memorial was slightly off, the driver would not drive over where I told him to - I had my whole family incl. a toddler in a stroller. Fuck him then, flagged down a cab and off we went. YMMV
- carbocation 11y ago
  The point isn't that taxis don't have credit card terminals. It is that people often state that the terminal is nonfunctional, defeating the purpose. In Baltimore, this was the norm; I suspect Manhattan is better.
  - cballard 11y ago
    In New York, taxis are required to have functioning credit card machines. http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/passenger_creditcard.shtml http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/passenger_creditc...
    - kdamken 11y ago
      They are required in lots of places, but people don't always follow the law. It's not surprising to hear the old "the machine is broken, need cash" excuse.
      - cballard 11y ago
        It's really not an issue in New York. 311/TLC doesn't mess around with this.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - BookmarkSaver 11y ago
        I never really understood that. A cab driver told me that once, so I told him that I was leaving without paying. Even if he wasn't lying, I accept no responsibility for their broken equipment.
      - MiddleEndian 11y ago
        Not sure about the law in other places, but in Boston that's too bad for them. You can just get out of the cab without paying if their machine doesn't work.
    - 11y ago
thecopy 11y ago
I agree with everything but: >Uber and Lyft should probably be a bit more regulated The reason behind the taxi situation now is _because_ it is regulated. Regulation never helps the end-consumers, it helps the big corporations hold out competition.
- pboutros 11y ago
  >Regulation never helps the end-consumers The FDA, FDIC, and other acronyms would like to have a word with you.
  - endymi0n 11y ago
    Also, at least in Germany, there's some responsibilities that official taxies have in exchange for their quasi-monopoly - transportation duty for example. This is a double-edged sword as well when thinking about needing to drive a drunk, mentally ill or homeless person, but this is critical for elderly or disabled people. My wife was once refused transportation by a taxi driver when she had just to go two kilometers from the airport with a broken leg (granted, shitty situation for both sides here) - and she got compensation and another driver from the taxi central immediately. While I'm with you on better regulation, blind deregulation has too much collateral damage IMHO.
    - Apocryphon 11y ago
      The problem with the U.S. is that there tends not to be a complete absence of regulation, but regulation that is often poorly designed and/or executed. It's sort of why for decades the American government has spent huge amounts on healthcare, despite politicians bashing the notion of universal healthcare at every turn. I definitely agree that the solution should be better regulation.
  - baddox 11y ago
    Plenty of people would debate whether those programs are a net benefit.
- Aleman360 11y ago
kzhahou 11y ago
There's another reason I've wondered about. It's not politically correct. All the Ubers I've used had white or sometimes Hispanic-American drivers. But taxis have all (except for Portland) been either African (esp ~ethiopian), Palestinian, some region of India I can't place, etc. They're dominated by recent immigrants. So I wonder if average young white couple on their way to dinner or whatever, simply likes the white-driver experience.
- habosa 11y ago
  I have noticed a definite racial tinge to the conversation when people talk about preferring their Uber drivers. Even if it's not overt racism, there is unconscious bias at play. I have also noticed that when I get matched with a black Uber or Lyft driver they tend to have a low-ish rating (4.6-4.8 whereas most white drivers I get are 4.8-5.0) but I have not personally found drivers of any race to be any less skilled or courteous.
  - AJ007 11y ago
    At some point a government agency will collect driver racial data from Uber and the results won't be pretty.
    - potatolicious 11y ago
      Messy for Uber? Unless they've been discriminating against drivers by race themselves they're in the clear. If driver race-rating data was ever publicized it'll be most damning against society in general, I think. I'd wager that Uber's passenger base is substantially more discriminatory than the company can hope to be on its most evil day. The 5-star rating system is cover for a lot of things that I think everyone knows to some extent but doesn't enjoy thinking about.
  - EdHominem 11y ago
    Have you ever noticed that closet racists see racism everywhere?
- BookmarkSaver 11y ago
manuelflara 11y ago
Another awesome benefit of using Uber I didn't realize until I started using it: you get a detailed invoice of each trip you take on your phone, instead of having to ask for a paper one to the driver, wait for it to be printed and then actually make sure you don't lose it. And that's not all! Uber's invoice includes a map of your route, so you'd be able to see if the uber drive "tried to scam you" by taking a longer road or by making a bunch of unnecessary turns. This is incredibly useful as it's a common practice (at least in my side of the world) with taxi drivers and tourists, and of course Uber drivers won't try to pull it off as they know you'll notice, even if you're not from there. One day our driver made a bunch of mistakes (he admitted as much) driving us home and we ended up with a, say, 20% extra rate for that ride than we'd normally get. This was in Mexico City btw. On the email invoice I could clearly see the funny way we took. I replied to Uber, explained the situation, and within 48 hours they reimbursed me for a chunk of the cost of the ride. If that isn't an absolutely delightful experience overall, I don't know what is. I know Uber as a company is guilty of some predatory behavior to drivers, ignores current legislation for profit and they'll put all their drivers out of a job as soon as they can get their whole fleet to drive itself. But dammit, if they're growing so much and they have so much of support is because the user experience is bliss.
- Larrikin 11y ago
  Wait I was under the impression that Uber and Lyft eliminated the ability to scam someone by driving around simply by making it a fixed rate to the destination once you're in the vehicle. Whats the reasoning for allowing someone to go off course?
  - kctess5 11y ago
    It's not a fixed rate, there's a time and distance component. The time component is presumably to account for the drivers time wasted when traffic is high.
  - stickydink 11y ago
    You can get an estimate easily, but the final price for an UberX is a function of distance and time, just like a taxi. I have had a few occasions where my driver's taken the wrong route. Not intentionally, I don't think, but a wrong turn here or there in a one-way system can really screw it up. Each time that's happened, I leave a not-5-star rating. Within a few hours, Uber have sent me an email. I reply to that explaining the route, they take a look at the map, and every single time I've received either the difference in cost for a regular trip (if it's one I can show I've taken multiple times), or a full refund. There are sometimes UberPool deals, where they'll offer a fixed price to go from and to anywhere within a certain region.
ethosa 11y ago
As pinaceae says below, a few of these are non-issues. NYC taxies always have working credit card machines, are relatively clean, drivers are usually polite enough. In my experience (Manhattan), all taxi services have about the same service, and about the same pricing, with some special variations. Anecdotally, Most people I know have Uber, Lyft, and Gett (a third service not mentioned in this article) on their phone. When they need to go somewhere, they request a ride on multiple services, usually taking the one with the fastest pickup lowest rate. But, at any point in the process, if there is a taxi driving by then they will just hail it down and cancel the ride requests. Personally, I will default to the Gett $10 below 110st deal, then check Uber and Lyft. Sometimes I will take a taxi if it's there. Since the real benefit of taxi request services is not waiting, if taking a taxi would be faster, then that is what I will default to.
- johnbellone 11y ago
  When is the last time that you have been in a Manhattan taxi? I travel to NYC a few times a month and tend to prefer yellow cabs out of habit. But I definitely would not consider them clean when comparing Uber. Maybe it is because of the "black car" lineage of Uber, but the car is generally spotless, not sticky and relatively new. On the other hand, the yellow cabs look outwardly new and clean but on the inside are torn up.
EdHominem 11y ago
The only reason I've ever heard for saving taxis is that they paid for medallions and should benefit to the exclusion of people who weren't allowed to buy medallions. I'm happy to let their graft payments go to waste. Those who collaborate with such rules don't deserve our protection in the end.
- dionidium 11y ago
  If that's the only argument you've heard for taxis or against ride-sharing, then I'll submit to you that you haven't done much research on this topic.
  - EdHominem 11y ago
    How do you equate an argument against Uber with an argument for taxis?
Camillo 11y ago
There may be a cultural aspect, too. When I was a kid, taxis were for rich people or businessmen. Even if I can afford it now, it just feels like an extravagance to take a taxi. Of course, the lack of price transparency means this bias is never going to be eroded. In my mind, a taxi is going to cost $50 for even the shortest trip, and so I never even bother.
dionidium 11y ago
Counterpoint: * Uber drivers often have no idea how to get around. In my city, they're often suburbanites who have come in to drive the drinking crowd to three or four entertainment strips. Venture outside of that and they don't even know where they are. * The worst experiences I've ever had being driven by anyone in any context have been in Uber. My theory is that because people are in their own personal cars, they feel justified driving just like they do when they're alone. Whatever the cause, I have had some truly dangerous drivers. * I don't necessarily need or desire a complete detailed history of every ride I've ever taken. There are huge potential privacy concerns.
- karmelapple 11y ago
  Counter-counter: * Turn-by-turn largely takes care of this, and most drivers I've had are amenable to a friendly suggestion of, "go this way, it's a little easier." * I've never had a problem. Definitely have had more crazy / dangerous taxi cab drivers - especially in Florida, whatever that anecdotal point may be worth. * Being able to opt in/out would be nice for data collection purposes. But I think many people would appreciate that paper trail, especially for business purposes.
  - dionidium 11y ago
    These are fair responses, but I'd like to push back on the idea that turn-by-turn is a suitable replacement for experience. In practice, an Uber driver relying on GPS in a neighborhood he's unfamiliar with is a driver who is making a lot of wrong turns, using streets that have better alternatives, and sometimes even attempting to use routes that are closed.
    - stormbrew 11y ago
      On the other hand, it's sometimes a problem that you 'trust' the taxi driver to know the best route, since there's no guarantee they're actually using it (if you're in a strange city or going somewhere unfamiliar). I honestly prefer they use a GPS because at least then I know the source of their choices. Sometimes that means it takes a little longer to get there, but I'm comfortable with that tradeoff. YMMV.
stormbrew 11y ago
> - Most taxi drivers I've met have been incredibly rude and impatient, and then expect a 20% tip. On top of that, I've had a bunch of them lie and say they don't accept credit cards after the trip is complete, even though there is a sign that says they are legally required to. "The machine is broken" isn't a valid excuse. I commented about this to a taxi driver once, and in a moment of surprising candidness, he told me that one reason this happens is because the taxi company he get dispatch from doesn't pay out credit card payments for something like a month and a half (obviously different companies and different cities will be different here), so drivers who are tight at bill time will insist on cash so they can make ends meet. I asked an Uber driver and they said they get paid every 2 weeks or so.
- baddox 11y ago
  The last two times I used a taxi in SF, the driver scanned my card using a Square Reader. I presume they are using their personal accounts to avoid some of the hassle of the official taxi card readers. I also presume that the taxi companies might not like that.
jads 11y ago
Having lived in London for a number of years before moving to NY in Jan, I have an intense, burning hatred of cab companies (whether it's the London black cab or New York's yellow cab). I will always, always use Lyft/Uber wherever possible. My reasons for hatred include: - After arriving into JFK, I'd used up all my battery on the flight so decided, rather than wait to charge my phone at the airport, I'd get a local cab instead. The cab driver took me to Brooklyn. We passed La Guardia. After a heated argument, it still cost over 3x what it would've cost with Uber. - Since I have a British accent, NY cabbies often assume I'm a tourist and will try and take the long way round (seriously, La Guardia?). I've had to correct them on more than one occasion about which route to take and they are always shocked when I start telling them which bridge to cross into the city or what street they should use. - In London, I was out with some friends and one woman had missed the last tube home. Night buses from where we were wasn't an option, so we tried to hail a cab. After telling the driver where she needed to go, he told us to "fk off" and drove away. I requested an Uber for her and within 45 minutes, she was safely at home. These are just highlights in the many terrible experiences of cabs, and my experience has been better with any ride sharing service. Why? Because customer ratings affect their ability to offer rides. Cab drivers have no such incentive, even if you call to complain with their medallion number. Unless the cab driver has done something illegal, I doubt anything happens.
goldbrick 11y ago
One that's especially relevant in New York is that I never have to worry about a cab trying to get rid of me when they find out I'm going to an outer borough. It's technically illegal but that doesn't stop a lot of them from being shady, plus what are you really going to do? With Uber the driver already knows exactly where I'm going.

andrewpi 11y ago

I knew Lyft was the underdog in NYC (compared to Uber), but they seem to be in real trouble according to this data. In my personal experience, my Uber drivers have seemed better trained than my Lyft drivers in NY, so for the most part I only take Lyft if they are offering me a special promotion. For example, I've had Lyft drivers who seemed confused with how to use their own app.

jpwright 11y ago

I'd be interested to see how successful way2ride has been (as in, how has the percentage of taxi trips originating from way2ride changed over time?) way2ride has been advertised heavily in NYC and offers most of the same features that the Uber app does: seeing nearby cabs, hailing, seeing the cab's location, paying through the app. On the occasional trip where public transportation isn't sufficient, I've used it as an alternative to Uber and had good experiences. In particular, it's useful to dodge surge pricing and in finding a ride in places where Uber drivers don't hang around. * https://www.way2ride.com/user/login.form https://www.way2ride.com/user/login.form

cballard 11y ago
There are so many cabs that I don't really see the need for this, and most cabs take Apple Pay now, so I've never really seen the point of this and the other one (is there another one? I think there is?). If I was somewhere where there aren't a lot of cabs I'd probably just use Uber, it's cheaper and cleaner anyways.
robbiemitchell 11y ago
Exactly: I use way2ride all the time to pay, and use it to hail when Uber has surge pricing on. It's especially useful for hailing while still inside your apartment.

burritofanatic 11y ago

I've been in NYC for a week, and I've used all three services to get around when needed. Taxi is actually by far the easiest to get a ride on. The reason is being on the correct side of the street and for the car to be traveling in the direction you're headed is crucial. Grabbing a Lyft or Uber may commit a driver to having to turn around the block, which can take several minutes, and in that time, you could have hailed half a dozen taxis.

mertd 11y ago
That's only true in the lower half of Manhattan. Good luck hailing a random cab in the middle of the night elsewhere.
- tomjakubowski 11y ago
  Completely doable on a random weekday or weeknight on Atlantic Ave anywhere west of Barclays Center, in my experience.
  - JBReefer 11y ago
    That's still the urban core. Try it in Glendale and report back.
Camillo 11y ago
I do wish Lyft and Uber would just tell me to cross the street for a faster pickup. In many cases, I could even walk a couple of blocks, and from the route on the map I even know exactly where to walk. But I cannot, because the driver would still go to the original location.
- eric_h 11y ago
  The Uber app has been doing that for me for a few weeks now. "Go here for faster pickup?" or something to that effect.
- stormbrew 11y ago

dec0dedab0de 11y ago

I haven't tried Lyft yet because my credit card gives me %20 back for taking Uber. Also, average type people don't even know about Lyft. They hear about Uber from all the news coverage, but they don't mention Lyft. Uber is winning the marketing war with Lyft so effectively that it doesn't matter who is better. Now, the only reason I could ever see taking an analog taxi is if my phone was dead.

kdamken 11y ago
That's a crazy good cash back percentage - what card is giving you that?
- habosa 11y ago
  It's a Capital One deal with Uber. 20% cash back, but only for a year I believe.
- smelendez 11y ago
  Capital One has had this program for about 18 months, but sadly it's about to expire (unless they renew it last minute): https://get.uber.com/cl/capitalone/?type=qs https://get.uber.com/cl/capitalone/?type=qs
iagooar 11y ago
I'm curious about how you write "%20", instead of the more common "20%". It's the first time I see it, really. Is there any place in the world where writing the percentage sign before the number is common practice?
- deleted 11y ago
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- dec0dedab0de 11y ago
  It's something I mess up often. It just feels more natural to put the modifier before the number like with money.

minimaxir 11y ago

> the graphs on this page will continue to update as the TLC releases more data. Interesting use of Highcharts to this effect, especially with the theming to match your other designs. Is it a good idea in the context of this article to have dynamic data though, as the conclusion might change over time?

kailuowang 11y ago

In NYC (or at least in Manhattan), when taxis are readily available (non-extreme weather), Uber is 2x to 3x less convenient than taxi. When taxis aren't readily available i.e. extreme weather, Uber is 3x - 5x more expensive than taxi and still takes forever to get one. I believe that Uber in NYC will remain a niche player. But I do appreciate some competition against the taxis.

mattmanser 11y ago
Did you read the article? This is not 'niche': http://toddwschneider.com/data/taxi/taxi_uber_lyft_trips_per_day.png http://toddwschneider.com/data/taxi/taxi_uber_lyft_trips_per...

amelius 11y ago

> Taxi, Uber, and Lyft Usage I wish we had access to such numbers for apps on the App store.

homero 11y ago

Taxis are beyond dead as millennials grow up and further generations vomit at the thought of a taxi

jeffisbest 11y ago

thw name is basicllydowrk

roldie 11y ago

I don't have any data to back up my anecdote, but here in Austin, Lyft seems to be much more popular than Uber, and both are more popular than taxis. My friends and I all prefer Lyft as riders. This is due to equal if not higher availability, and limited surge pricing compared to Uber. Drivers have been pretty friendly as well. I always ask the driver if they drive for both, and which they prefer. Every driver I've had has preferred Lyft due to it giving more back money back to the driver, a strong driver community, and simpler onboarding process. Some of this could be due to city culture, where Austin seems to line up much more with Lyft's character than New York.

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imbeau 11y ago
Same story in Boston, except that most of my friends still take Uber. I've had far better experiences riding with Lyft drivers and the drivers seem to enjoy working with Lyft a lot more. Uber is my backup option now if there are no Lyfts available.
llamataboot 11y ago
Here in Minneapolis, Lyft seems more popular among my crowd, but people still use "Uber" for the verb a lot. Like at least once a week I hear some variation on: Person 1: "Are we ubering to the game tonight?" Person 2: "Yeah, I'll call a lyft in like 10 minutes" Which to me is really interesting from a linguistic standpoint. (Both that Uber became a verb so quick, and that it is becoming a generic term already). Incidentally, I've heard people say "lyfting" as well, but that always has referred to getting an actual Lyft, whereas "ubering" seems to refer to both just fine.
erikpukinskis 11y ago
Lyft/Uber seem to split on the Friendly/Professional preference, so it makes sense to me that Uber would do better in cities like New York and Boston while Lyft does better in cities like Austin and Minneapolis. I've heard many people say they like Uber because the drivers shut up and have nice cars. I've heard other people say they like Lyft because the drivers are friendly people in normal cars and it feels more like a friend giving you a ride.

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xufi 11y ago

My friend who lives in NYC now was telling me about this The taxi drivers themselves also have a medallion system which has severely been devalued for decades and since Uber is taking a piece of their cake, slowly and slowly they'll be phased out

notirk 11y ago

Interesting there is no mention of the Boro (Green) taxis. 6,000 medallions were released in 2013 (with plans to release another 6,000 a year for a total of 18,000.) That's a large swing on the supply side compared to the ~13K yellow taxis that I think would also have an impact on the 2010 onwards trips graph. http://toddwschneider.com/data/taxi/taxi_uber_lyft_trips_per_day.png http://toddwschneider.com/data/taxi/taxi_uber_lyft_trips_per...

99_00 11y ago

Once Uber dominates the market everyone is going to learn, the hard way, why taxis used to be a regulated industry.

kentosi 11y ago

One thing I like about taxis is the meter itself: If you're stuck in a traffic jam you can check the current price and decide if it's worth staying in the taxi or hopping out (after paying). Is there any technical reason why Uber can't present a meter in the app that you can look at intermittently?

nyk2016 11y ago

To offer some points in favor of taxis: 1) taxis can be more convenient for older people who are less tech-savvy and can't fully utilize smartphones (think seniors); 2) I'm not sure if you can request this on Uber, but some taxis are wheelchair accessible and they have the proper equipment for loading/unloading. You can try it with a minivan Uber but a taxi would be preferable in this case.