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Being an Indian I can also get work outsourced to a developer in a foreign country without having to pay any duty. There are many companies in India that also e

Being an Indian I can also get work outsourced to a developer in a foreign country without having to pay any duty. There are many companies in India that also employ foreign nationals. How can you compare import/export of physical goods with import/export of services/labor? Both are different. EDIT: Also you are assuming Apple does not have retail stores in India. In fact there are multiple Apple stores in every city in India. There are many who own Apple products but there are many more who purchase Sony/Samsung/Micromax/Karbonn etc as they tend to be less expensive. None of the other companies use India as a dumping ground for second hand phones. Why should Apple be any different?

geon 11y ago
> dumping ground for second hand phones Why the negative phrasing? What is wrong with reuse? Would it be any difference if the phones were new? Is it an environmental issue?
- DanBC 11y ago
  Personally, I don't think this is going to happen with these Apple phones. (Although I'd be interested to see what happens with security updates; and how easy they are to use with local languages.) But. There have been considerable environmental problems with companies dumping e-waste on developing world countries. Sometimes this e-waste is described as "used, low cost computing equipment", sometimes it's described as "recyclable waste". Either of those sound fine. When I hear them I think of a small local co-op fixing the computers and installing free software and distributing them to schools or whatnot. Or of people dismantling and sorting the stuff, and recycling for cash. What actually happens is something like the e-waste dump in Agbogbloshie, Accra, Ghana. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00sch78 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00sch78 http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/14/toxic-ewaste-illegal-dumping-developing-countries http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/14/to...
- shripadk 11y ago
  If Apple can come with a solution for recycling these second hand phones I'm all ears. So far there is no word on that issue. We already have a lot of e-waste in the country as it is. Adding more to it will cause serious environmental hazards.
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    The article addresses that point directly: "To be sure, Apple has some of the industry’s most exacting protocols for recycling products. The company says it typically manages to collect and recycle 85 percent, by weight, of devices produced seven years earlier. Apple’s eventual plan, as stated in its application to the government, is to set up facilities that take discarded phones and refurbish them for use."
    - shripadk 11y ago
      That policy is for a first-hand phone. Does the same policy continue for a second-hand phone (which is basically "refurbish them for use")?
      - samastur 11y ago
        Where does it say that? You seem to be set against this so under what conditions could Apple (or anybody else) sell refurbished phones that would be acceptable to you? Or do they become problem immediately once they are not new?
        shripadk 11y ago
        Does Apple state that the recycling policy applies to any phone irrespective of how many hands has been changed in the process? Would you be willing to buy a second hand refurbished phone from Apple if the recycling policy does not apply for the second hand phone?
        sokoloff 11y ago
        Since the alternative would be "there is no market for reuse of once-used phone", the recycling policy would not deter me. Apple as a seller and I as a buyer are making the world better by providing a secondary market for high-level re-use rather than component/elemental level recycling or landfilling. IOW, the recycling policy DOES apply, IMO, even if there is no downstream from my use recycling intent (which I think is still an open question from the text and the overall good results Apple gets on recycling). As a US consumer, I generally buy and use 13-18 month old iPhones until they no longer reliably function or until the battery life is too poor, then I go buy another one-generation old phone. Apple has nothing to do with this, other than keeping the upgrade treadmill going for everyone else so I can get my $200-250 used phones to put on an MVNO (Ting in my case).
seanmcdirmid 11y ago
Apple doesn't have stores in India. Those are Indian-owned retailers licensed to sell Apple products. Indian law won't allow Apple to open their own stores in India like they have done in China. Apple would only sell second hand phones on India if their was a market for them.
- shripadk 11y ago
  Apple doesn't have to waste money in building stores across India. Isn't that profitable to Apple that they get free access to real estate to showcase its products? Not just that, Apple also earns from providing license to Indian-owned retailers and profits from sale of every Apple device. That is a good thing for Apple is it not? On the other hand we all know what is happening in China. Even with Apple having it's own store it has a massive problem of dealing with unlicensed copy-cat Apple stores. Read this article for more info: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-china-idUSKCN0V4200 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-china-idUSKCN0V4200
  - seanmcdirmid 11y ago
    Middle men always drive prices higher as they need their cut, part of the reason (besides taxes) that Apple hardware costs so much more in India. Also, Apple cannot provide the service that they do in other countries. There are many unlicensed apple stores in China, I live right next to one, but they do not have a pricing advantage compared to the Apple store, so why not just buy there?

geon 11y ago

> dumping ground for second hand phones Why the negative phrasing? What is wrong with reuse? Would it be any difference if the phones were new? Is it an environmental issue?

DanBC 11y ago
Personally, I don't think this is going to happen with these Apple phones. (Although I'd be interested to see what happens with security updates; and how easy they are to use with local languages.) But. There have been considerable environmental problems with companies dumping e-waste on developing world countries. Sometimes this e-waste is described as "used, low cost computing equipment", sometimes it's described as "recyclable waste". Either of those sound fine. When I hear them I think of a small local co-op fixing the computers and installing free software and distributing them to schools or whatnot. Or of people dismantling and sorting the stuff, and recycling for cash. What actually happens is something like the e-waste dump in Agbogbloshie, Accra, Ghana. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00sch78 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00sch78 http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/14/toxic-ewaste-illegal-dumping-developing-countries http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/14/to...
shripadk 11y ago
If Apple can come with a solution for recycling these second hand phones I'm all ears. So far there is no word on that issue. We already have a lot of e-waste in the country as it is. Adding more to it will cause serious environmental hazards.
- sokoloff 11y ago
  The article addresses that point directly: "To be sure, Apple has some of the industry’s most exacting protocols for recycling products. The company says it typically manages to collect and recycle 85 percent, by weight, of devices produced seven years earlier. Apple’s eventual plan, as stated in its application to the government, is to set up facilities that take discarded phones and refurbish them for use."
  - shripadk 11y ago
    That policy is for a first-hand phone. Does the same policy continue for a second-hand phone (which is basically "refurbish them for use")?
    - samastur 11y ago
      Where does it say that? You seem to be set against this so under what conditions could Apple (or anybody else) sell refurbished phones that would be acceptable to you? Or do they become problem immediately once they are not new?
      - shripadk 11y ago
        Does Apple state that the recycling policy applies to any phone irrespective of how many hands has been changed in the process? Would you be willing to buy a second hand refurbished phone from Apple if the recycling policy does not apply for the second hand phone?
        sokoloff 11y ago
        Since the alternative would be "there is no market for reuse of once-used phone", the recycling policy would not deter me. Apple as a seller and I as a buyer are making the world better by providing a secondary market for high-level re-use rather than component/elemental level recycling or landfilling. IOW, the recycling policy DOES apply, IMO, even if there is no downstream from my use recycling intent (which I think is still an open question from the text and the overall good results Apple gets on recycling). As a US consumer, I generally buy and use 13-18 month old iPhones until they no longer reliably function or until the battery life is too poor, then I go buy another one-generation old phone. Apple has nothing to do with this, other than keeping the upgrade treadmill going for everyone else so I can get my $200-250 used phones to put on an MVNO (Ting in my case).

seanmcdirmid 11y ago

Apple doesn't have stores in India. Those are Indian-owned retailers licensed to sell Apple products. Indian law won't allow Apple to open their own stores in India like they have done in China. Apple would only sell second hand phones on India if their was a market for them.

shripadk 11y ago
Apple doesn't have to waste money in building stores across India. Isn't that profitable to Apple that they get free access to real estate to showcase its products? Not just that, Apple also earns from providing license to Indian-owned retailers and profits from sale of every Apple device. That is a good thing for Apple is it not? On the other hand we all know what is happening in China. Even with Apple having it's own store it has a massive problem of dealing with unlicensed copy-cat Apple stores. Read this article for more info: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-china-idUSKCN0V4200 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-china-idUSKCN0V4200
- seanmcdirmid 11y ago
  Middle men always drive prices higher as they need their cut, part of the reason (besides taxes) that Apple hardware costs so much more in India. Also, Apple cannot provide the service that they do in other countries. There are many unlicensed apple stores in China, I live right next to one, but they do not have a pricing advantage compared to the Apple store, so why not just buy there?