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The average new car price in March 2016 was $33,666. There are plenty of "mass-produced" cars in this price range. http://mediaroom.kbb.com/new-car-transaction-

by agf 11y ago

The average new car price in March 2016 was $33,666. There are plenty of "mass-produced" cars in this price range. http://mediaroom.kbb.com/new-car-transaction-prices-up-2-percent-march-2016 http://mediaroom.kbb.com/new-car-transaction-prices-up-2-per...

dionidium 11y ago
That may be the average cost of a new car, which does not in any way contradict my claim that the median family spends nowhere near that on a car.
- agf 11y ago
  I'm aware of that. My point was it's in a range in which a very large number of cars are sold; claiming this price range means it's not going to be "mass-produced" is stretching it.
  - dionidium 11y ago
    Since you've left this comment a couple times I'll just point out that that wasn't at all my point.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - maratd 11y ago
      I think rather than going back and forth, perhaps someone should explain the difference between average and median?
      - sickpig 11y ago
        average is skewed towards distribution outliers, the more asymmetric the distribution the more pronounced will be such effect. On the other hand median just gives you the value that split the distribution in two exact parts. Price/Income distributions are the perfect match if you want to see avg bias taken to its extreme. e.g. median of [2,2,2,2,2,2,2,100] = 2 average of [2,2,2,2,2,2,2,100] = 14.25
      - _asummers 11y ago
        That shouldn't be necessary on this site, but since you asked. Average (or mean) is the sum of the values divided by the number of values. Because of the way it is calculated, it is more likely to skew when the data includes extremely large or extremely small values. Median on the other hand is a way to measure the "middle value". For data sets of odd cardinality, it is simply the middle value, and for even cardinality, it is the mean of the two middlemost values. You can have a large number of extreme values with no effect on the median value, depending on the data. As an example let us look at a hypothetical neighborhood. We have a family making 50k, another 100k, another 150k. Their average salary is 100k with the same median. Assume some super rich guy making 10 million. Our average goes up to several million dollars, but the median sits at 125k, more representative of where the data is clumped. None of this to say that median is a good measurement in what I'll call malicious data sets. Imagine a data set with 1000 entries of negative 10m and 1000 of positive 10m. If I add a new data point of 5000, this is my median but doesn't represent my data at all. Bonus: there's also "mode" which measure the value that has the most entries. E.g. in a set of 1 2 2 2 3 4 5, mode is 2.
- osweiller 11y ago
  Do you have any evidence or data to demonstrate that the "median family" spends less than the average? The average family also isn't buying the Kia Rondo, but I'm not claiming that these beginner cars are skewing the values down, just as I see no data whatsoever to demonstrate any skewing up. SUVs are everywhere. Light trucks are everywhere. Minivans are everywhere. Most of these are in the $35K+ range (the F150 -- the top selling US vehicle -- has an average selling price of $41,776). Even a decently equipped Honda Accord (along with light trucks, the most popular car in the US. Not the Civic, but the Accord) is pushing past $30K. Often the median and the average skew. But minus actual data beyond just anecdotes, the average is the best we have.
  - ma2rten 11y ago
    I did a quick Google search. According to KBB the average price for a new car in August 2015 was $33,543. Since this doesn't include used cars, I think it's fair to say that the average household is spending less than that.
    - osweiller 11y ago
      The goal posts seem to keep moving, but this whole discussion began because of a disagreement about whether this would qualify as a "mass produced" car because "Normal people do not spend $35-40k on a car". Yet the #1, most popular vehicle sold in the US, the Ford F-150, sells for over $41K generally. There are many other completely ordinary, most certainly mass produced, vehicles in that price range. Bought by entirely "normal" people. These discussions always remind me of a great Onion article (http://www.theonion.com/article/sociologist-considers-own-behavior-indicative-of-l-421 http://www.theonion.com/article/sociologist-considers-own-be...) about projecting one's own lot across the population at large, and using our own situation and choices to define "normal".
      - dionidium 11y ago
        Since you're the second person in this thread to think my post had anything at all to do with the definition of "mass-produced," I guess I should apologize for being unclear. That wasn't my point at all. Obviously it will be "mass-produced" for any reasonable definition of the phrase. My point was that this is still a luxury vehicle that will be purchased by people whose wallets will be able to handle production problems. "Yet the #1, most popular vehicle sold in the US, the Ford F-150" There is a reason for that. That is a work vehicle. "These discussions always remind me of a great Onion article about projecting one's own lot across the population at large, and using our own situation and choices to define "normal"." This is hilarious because it's exactly what I'm responding to. Some set of the HN crowd, despite this entire discussion, still seems to think $40k is a normal amount of money to spend on a car. It isn't. And, again, I think the evidence is on my side. The median family does not, in fact, buy $40k cars, regardless of whether you think I'm projecting or not. Here, for example, is some information on median used car prices: http://priceonomics.com/cars/ http://priceonomics.com/cars/
cperciva 11y ago
The average new car price in March 2016 was $33,666. That's the mean price though, and the price curve has a very long tail. The median is significantly lower.
- agf 11y ago
  Of course. The point was just that this doesn't put it out of the range where a car would be "mass-produced".
diskcat 11y ago
When I was at university my roommate was a rich mainlander chinese whose dad bought him an AMG mercedes. So the average car for that household was in the 100k's needless to say i wasn't driving anything near that.
matwood 11y ago
I have owned many cars, and I have never paid more than $24k for a car. The only reason I even paid that much was that I needed a full sized truck. $40k for a car seems insane to me.

by agf 11y ago

dionidium 11y ago

That may be the average cost of a new car, which does not in any way contradict my claim that the median family spends nowhere near that on a car.

agf 11y ago
I'm aware of that. My point was it's in a range in which a very large number of cars are sold; claiming this price range means it's not going to be "mass-produced" is stretching it.
- dionidium 11y ago
  Since you've left this comment a couple times I'll just point out that that wasn't at all my point.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - maratd 11y ago
    I think rather than going back and forth, perhaps someone should explain the difference between average and median?
    - sickpig 11y ago
      average is skewed towards distribution outliers, the more asymmetric the distribution the more pronounced will be such effect. On the other hand median just gives you the value that split the distribution in two exact parts. Price/Income distributions are the perfect match if you want to see avg bias taken to its extreme. e.g. median of [2,2,2,2,2,2,2,100] = 2 average of [2,2,2,2,2,2,2,100] = 14.25
    - _asummers 11y ago
      That shouldn't be necessary on this site, but since you asked. Average (or mean) is the sum of the values divided by the number of values. Because of the way it is calculated, it is more likely to skew when the data includes extremely large or extremely small values. Median on the other hand is a way to measure the "middle value". For data sets of odd cardinality, it is simply the middle value, and for even cardinality, it is the mean of the two middlemost values. You can have a large number of extreme values with no effect on the median value, depending on the data. As an example let us look at a hypothetical neighborhood. We have a family making 50k, another 100k, another 150k. Their average salary is 100k with the same median. Assume some super rich guy making 10 million. Our average goes up to several million dollars, but the median sits at 125k, more representative of where the data is clumped. None of this to say that median is a good measurement in what I'll call malicious data sets. Imagine a data set with 1000 entries of negative 10m and 1000 of positive 10m. If I add a new data point of 5000, this is my median but doesn't represent my data at all. Bonus: there's also "mode" which measure the value that has the most entries. E.g. in a set of 1 2 2 2 3 4 5, mode is 2.
osweiller 11y ago
Do you have any evidence or data to demonstrate that the "median family" spends less than the average? The average family also isn't buying the Kia Rondo, but I'm not claiming that these beginner cars are skewing the values down, just as I see no data whatsoever to demonstrate any skewing up. SUVs are everywhere. Light trucks are everywhere. Minivans are everywhere. Most of these are in the $35K+ range (the F150 -- the top selling US vehicle -- has an average selling price of $41,776). Even a decently equipped Honda Accord (along with light trucks, the most popular car in the US. Not the Civic, but the Accord) is pushing past $30K. Often the median and the average skew. But minus actual data beyond just anecdotes, the average is the best we have.
- ma2rten 11y ago
  I did a quick Google search. According to KBB the average price for a new car in August 2015 was $33,543. Since this doesn't include used cars, I think it's fair to say that the average household is spending less than that.
  - osweiller 11y ago
    The goal posts seem to keep moving, but this whole discussion began because of a disagreement about whether this would qualify as a "mass produced" car because "Normal people do not spend $35-40k on a car". Yet the #1, most popular vehicle sold in the US, the Ford F-150, sells for over $41K generally. There are many other completely ordinary, most certainly mass produced, vehicles in that price range. Bought by entirely "normal" people. These discussions always remind me of a great Onion article (http://www.theonion.com/article/sociologist-considers-own-behavior-indicative-of-l-421 http://www.theonion.com/article/sociologist-considers-own-be...) about projecting one's own lot across the population at large, and using our own situation and choices to define "normal".
    - dionidium 11y ago
      Since you're the second person in this thread to think my post had anything at all to do with the definition of "mass-produced," I guess I should apologize for being unclear. That wasn't my point at all. Obviously it will be "mass-produced" for any reasonable definition of the phrase. My point was that this is still a luxury vehicle that will be purchased by people whose wallets will be able to handle production problems. "Yet the #1, most popular vehicle sold in the US, the Ford F-150" There is a reason for that. That is a work vehicle. "These discussions always remind me of a great Onion article about projecting one's own lot across the population at large, and using our own situation and choices to define "normal"." This is hilarious because it's exactly what I'm responding to. Some set of the HN crowd, despite this entire discussion, still seems to think $40k is a normal amount of money to spend on a car. It isn't. And, again, I think the evidence is on my side. The median family does not, in fact, buy $40k cars, regardless of whether you think I'm projecting or not. Here, for example, is some information on median used car prices: http://priceonomics.com/cars/ http://priceonomics.com/cars/

cperciva 11y ago

The average new car price in March 2016 was $33,666. That's the mean price though, and the price curve has a very long tail. The median is significantly lower.

agf 11y ago
Of course. The point was just that this doesn't put it out of the range where a car would be "mass-produced".

diskcat 11y ago

When I was at university my roommate was a rich mainlander chinese whose dad bought him an AMG mercedes. So the average car for that household was in the 100k's needless to say i wasn't driving anything near that.

matwood 11y ago

I have owned many cars, and I have never paid more than $24k for a car. The only reason I even paid that much was that I needed a full sized truck. $40k for a car seems insane to me.