4 ms·

There are none. Moving to Canada from the USA lowers your quality of life by 50%.

by miguelrochefort 11y ago

ybrah 11y ago
What are the reasons that lead you to believe that? I have lived in both the US and Canada, I prefer Canada.
- Grishnakh 11y ago
  I can imagine reasons a few right away that he would think that: * housing cost is generally higher in Canada, except maybe if you're comparing to the Bay Area in which case it's a wash * cars cost a LOT more in Canada (as does everything else) * tech salaries are a lot lower in Canada * taxes are generally higher in Canada (plus the huge VAT for sales)
  - Mikeb85 11y ago
    And you save a shitload of money on healthcare and university. Not to mention, money != quality of life. While I'm not going to argue Canada is the best place ever or that we don't have some issues, the quality of life is still pretty damn good. Certainly not 50% lower than the US or Silicon Valley...
    - miguelrochefort 11y ago
      What do you save on healthcare and university? University is like $3000/year here. I heard it's almost the same in the US if you go to a regular University. Healthcare is irrelevant is you're insured. And if you want access to care or a specialist in a reasonable delay, you have to got the private route, which means you actually pay twice. Considering that 50% of our taxes go to healthcare, I'm paying almost 25% of my income on healthcare here in Canada.
      - ceratopisan 11y ago
        I'm not sure what a "regular university" is. That might be the cost of a relatively cheap community college - i.e. the lowest-end choice in many areas. My uneducated guess is it's about 5-10 times that at private U.S colleges.
        miguelrochefort 11y ago
        Comparing the price of private U.S. Colleges to public Canadian Colleges is a mistake.
    - Grishnakh 11y ago
      Healthcare isn't that expensive here. Think of your premium as an extra tax: how does the lower taxes in the US plus the health insurance premium compare to what you'd pay in Canada? Now add in the significantly lower salaries. Remember, we're comparing lifestyles of tech professionals here, not average people or poor people. For people who can't afford decent health insurance, Canada definitely seems to have a much better system. But a tech professional should not have much trouble paying health insurance premiums.
stuxnet79 11y ago
Please explain yourself. If you are conflating QoL with salary then sure but I've heard stories of Canadians moving from Ontario to the Bay Area and their opinions on the move are mixed.
- refurb 11y ago
  I don't know if I'd say the quality of life is 50% lower, but some of the reasons I prefer the US: (1) higher salary, (2) lower taxes [though this depends where in the US you move to], (3) you tend to work at HQ [better projects] rather than some satellite office, (4) more access to the latest tech [Amazon/Netflix is pretty bad in Canada], (5) more entrepreneurial/driven people [again depends where you move], (6) generally lower COL. I know people will bring up healthcare, but I would argue if you have a high-paying job in the US, you never really worry about going bankrupt due to healthcare and you get access to some of the top physicians/hospitals. Now don't get me wrong, Canada has a lot going for it. I think Canadian cities tend to be run better and this shows up as being safer and cleaner. Canadians also tend to be nicer and because they are 100% committed to the rat race, they tend to be less high strung and competitive. Overall, I had to move from Canada since there weren't any jobs in my home town. I could have move to Toronto (3 hr flight) or I could have moved to the Bay area (3 hr flight). I'm the same distance from family, so why not go for the bigger opportunity? Final disclaimer: this is my own opinion. Obviously some people will look at the US and go "yuck". Live where you want to live. It's all good.
  - miguelrochefort 11y ago
    (7) Cost of living [everything is much cheaper in the US] I agree to every single of your points.
  - stuxnet79 11y ago
    Thank you for adding your perspective. What's bothered the Canadians I have talked to who have made the move is not so much stuff like money, taxes etc. It is more general culture shock e.g. witnessing the amount of income inequality present in American cities / overt racial barriers ... etc. Canada is a lot more egalitarian. But from what you've said it seems like making the move to US is a good idea if you want more money and more opportunities. Hopefully I will be able to make the move soon. I am pretty ignorant of how the visa stuff works though and assuming I don't make it to the big tech companies I don't know how I'd be able to walk a middling startup through it. It seems like it would generally be easier for these startups to hire Americans. If you have a blog where you've shared your experiences on the move I'd be very interested in reading it because this is a subject that's been in my head for a while.

There are none. Moving to Canada from the USA lowers your quality of life by 50%.

ybrah 11y ago

What are the reasons that lead you to believe that? I have lived in both the US and Canada, I prefer Canada.

Grishnakh 11y ago
I can imagine reasons a few right away that he would think that: * housing cost is generally higher in Canada, except maybe if you're comparing to the Bay Area in which case it's a wash * cars cost a LOT more in Canada (as does everything else) * tech salaries are a lot lower in Canada * taxes are generally higher in Canada (plus the huge VAT for sales)
- Mikeb85 11y ago
  And you save a shitload of money on healthcare and university. Not to mention, money != quality of life. While I'm not going to argue Canada is the best place ever or that we don't have some issues, the quality of life is still pretty damn good. Certainly not 50% lower than the US or Silicon Valley...
  - miguelrochefort 11y ago
    What do you save on healthcare and university? University is like $3000/year here. I heard it's almost the same in the US if you go to a regular University. Healthcare is irrelevant is you're insured. And if you want access to care or a specialist in a reasonable delay, you have to got the private route, which means you actually pay twice. Considering that 50% of our taxes go to healthcare, I'm paying almost 25% of my income on healthcare here in Canada.
    - ceratopisan 11y ago
      I'm not sure what a "regular university" is. That might be the cost of a relatively cheap community college - i.e. the lowest-end choice in many areas. My uneducated guess is it's about 5-10 times that at private U.S colleges.
      - miguelrochefort 11y ago
        Comparing the price of private U.S. Colleges to public Canadian Colleges is a mistake.
  - Grishnakh 11y ago
    Healthcare isn't that expensive here. Think of your premium as an extra tax: how does the lower taxes in the US plus the health insurance premium compare to what you'd pay in Canada? Now add in the significantly lower salaries. Remember, we're comparing lifestyles of tech professionals here, not average people or poor people. For people who can't afford decent health insurance, Canada definitely seems to have a much better system. But a tech professional should not have much trouble paying health insurance premiums.

stuxnet79 11y ago

Please explain yourself. If you are conflating QoL with salary then sure but I've heard stories of Canadians moving from Ontario to the Bay Area and their opinions on the move are mixed.

refurb 11y ago
I don't know if I'd say the quality of life is 50% lower, but some of the reasons I prefer the US: (1) higher salary, (2) lower taxes [though this depends where in the US you move to], (3) you tend to work at HQ [better projects] rather than some satellite office, (4) more access to the latest tech [Amazon/Netflix is pretty bad in Canada], (5) more entrepreneurial/driven people [again depends where you move], (6) generally lower COL. I know people will bring up healthcare, but I would argue if you have a high-paying job in the US, you never really worry about going bankrupt due to healthcare and you get access to some of the top physicians/hospitals. Now don't get me wrong, Canada has a lot going for it. I think Canadian cities tend to be run better and this shows up as being safer and cleaner. Canadians also tend to be nicer and because they are 100% committed to the rat race, they tend to be less high strung and competitive. Overall, I had to move from Canada since there weren't any jobs in my home town. I could have move to Toronto (3 hr flight) or I could have moved to the Bay area (3 hr flight). I'm the same distance from family, so why not go for the bigger opportunity? Final disclaimer: this is my own opinion. Obviously some people will look at the US and go "yuck". Live where you want to live. It's all good.
- miguelrochefort 11y ago
  (7) Cost of living [everything is much cheaper in the US] I agree to every single of your points.
- stuxnet79 11y ago
  Thank you for adding your perspective. What's bothered the Canadians I have talked to who have made the move is not so much stuff like money, taxes etc. It is more general culture shock e.g. witnessing the amount of income inequality present in American cities / overt racial barriers ... etc. Canada is a lot more egalitarian. But from what you've said it seems like making the move to US is a good idea if you want more money and more opportunities. Hopefully I will be able to make the move soon. I am pretty ignorant of how the visa stuff works though and assuming I don't make it to the big tech companies I don't know how I'd be able to walk a middling startup through it. It seems like it would generally be easier for these startups to hire Americans. If you have a blog where you've shared your experiences on the move I'd be very interested in reading it because this is a subject that's been in my head for a while.