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As tptacek says, I don't view reporting like this as "doxxing." As the series hopefully shows, Le Roux was a hugely newsworthy figure for many different reasons
by myrbergs_army 11y ago
As tptacek says, I don't view reporting like this as "doxxing." As the series hopefully shows, Le Roux was a hugely newsworthy figure for many different reasons, so reporting his background and how he got there is part of understanding where he is now. As for being nervous, many of the major players in the story are in US custody, and perhaps somewhat counterintuitively a lot of people involved want to tell their part of the story. If they have beefs, they are typically with each other not with me. I do try to be careful, though.
- mirimir 11y agoTo me, it's just semantics. Let's say that someone published this much information about you. And let's say that they had whatever justifications. That there was widespread agreement that it was OK. Whatever. How would you feel?
- landryraccoon 11y agoAre moral rules situationally dependent on the personal feelings of the person subject to those rules? I would hate to be in jail, but I think it's morally and ethically valid to put people in jail in certain circumstances. Similarly I think that politicians and public figures should be subject to a high degree of scrutiny and transparency about their personal lives, even though I personally wouldn't enjoy such treatment.
- mirimir 11y agoBy "feel", I meant more what you might feel justified in doing about it. The key "moral rule" for me is to only mess with people who have messed with me. I don't get into third-party stuff, and I have little sympathy for those who do.
- BHSPitMonkey 11y agoSo what you're saying is, it would be moral for this guy's murder victims to dox him, but not a reporter? The funny thing with murderers is that they can only really be stopped by third parties.
- mirimir 11y agoI have little use for assessing morality. Anybody can do whatever they want. And they get whatever they get. My parent question was more about the reporter's OPSEC. That is, the risks that he's taken.
- BHSPitMonkey 11y agoWait, what? I was directly responding to your criteria for assessing morality.
- mirimir 11y agoFair enough. I have little use for assessing the moral opinions of others. As I wrote recently, stuff that isn't testable isn't worth worrying about.
- sinxoveretothex 11y agoI can't tell if you're being serious or facetious. A given moral rule doesn't change because it's held by you versus someone else. Just like it makes no sense to refuse to answer the question of whether a fruit is an apple because it is in my hand instead of yours. In other words, by having a moral rule yourself, you implicitly have a moral metarule: a rule about how to choose your moral rules. Your refusal to answer the question doesn't make sense.
- mirimir 11y agoPeople have all sorts of moral rules. It tends to vary by culture, religion, and so on. Maybe you can abstract them all into some overall set. But you lose some subtleties. But I also don't judge the moral rules that others hold. That's one of my operating principles. You can't judge without knowing that you're right. And there's no canonical source for that. I do have opinions about how well some moral rules work vs others. But that's not about judging, only assessing workability.
- kaybe 11y agoGermany has the concept 'people of public interest' for which different rules concerning media appearance and photographs apply. Politicians are an example. You could argue that it applies in this case as well. Wrong country of course, but the idea as an ethical code is out there, that the public has some right for information on some, and only some, people.
- smacktoward 11y agoU.S. law has a similar concept; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure.
- burkaman 11y agoI might feel upset, I guess. If you don't want that to happen, don't do anything newsworthy.
- chipotle_coyote 11y agoAre you essentially positing that the only relevant consideration to whether publishing information about someone is ethically defensible is whether or not the subject feels good about having that information revealed? It seems to me there is a material difference -- and a vast one at that -- between "I have done serious investigative work and wish to present evidence that Joe Foobar is a criminal kingpin who can be linked with drug-running and murders" and "I am publishing personal information about Joe Foobar because he said something mean about a group I identify with and I wish to screw with his life."
- mirimir 11y agoThe concept of "criminal kingpin" is entirely based on "a group I identify with". In this case, some nation or government or whatever. So, as I see it, there's arguably no fundamental distinction between your two examples. It's arguably all about power.
- toyg 11y agoDude, please. Laws are abstractions and relative and whatnot, but Really Bad People do exist and the public has a right to know. Otherwise, why have journalists or even laws at all?
- mirimir 11y agoHonestly, I don't have a clue. Who gets to decide? Some murderers are presidents, and others are on trial. There's really no point in arguing about it.
- cinquemb 11y agoDon't you know it's only ok when a given journalist has the blessing of the status quo and doesn't use automatic means (google doesn't count anymore of course, but copypasta of random code to help one on one's search is a big no no) of releasing such information? If such a "journalist" wanted to write (about potentially classified™ information) about people working for defense contractors who create products only a minority of people care to voice dissent but has the blessing of the status quo, it wouldn't be ok because it would put lives at danger™. There is also an exception to this for when a billionaire helps you write about such info, but only less than 1% of it will ever see the light of day, and one must consult with the thought leaders™ of the status quo in order to have a voice where all the token freedom loving organizations also supported by such billionaire will blogspam such carefully vetted position on one's behalf.
- dominotw 11y ago> As the series hopefully shows, Le Roux was a hugely newsworthy figure for many different reasons, so reporting his background and how he got there is part of understanding where he is now. Wasn't this Gawkers main argument in their defense against the hulk.
- tptacek 11y agoI do not understand the comparison you are trying to make. Gawker was sued for releasing a clip of the actual sex tape. Everyone involved stipulated that a detailed story about the tape would have been fine.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- Nadya 11y agoNo, not quite. Their main argument was that it was newsworthy and "it", in particular, was the video and not the article. The article itself could exist, but without the video. The video couldn't as there was a reasonable expectation of privacy. They were sued because they refused to take down the video and their defense was absolutely terrible in every regard including joking in legally binding statements without going through and marking them as jokes/sarcasm: so they are taken at face value in the court of law. Making jokes about child porn ("newsworthy if the actor is over the age of four") isn't how you win over jurors.
- samstave 11y agoI am completely out of the loop on this guy!!! I can't believe it, other than this article what's the best summary of him??