9 ms·

The only thing that counts is money...... keep selling. Sell it all. Sell sell sell. Who gives a toss for community or society or cohesion. Sell everything

by hoodoof 11y ago

The only thing that counts is money...... keep selling. Sell it all. Sell sell sell. Who gives a toss for community or society or cohesion. Sell everything. As long as property sellers can take all that lovely cash and buy more and bigger homes then what else matters? Ordinary middle class people and the young - make em rent! Why the sense of entitlement that people should be able to afford to buy a home, what are you a communist? Whose country do you think this is? In fact put one giant price on the whole of Vancouver and sell it ALL in one big job lot.

big_al337 11y ago
as a Canadian, your post is resonating with me...
- hoodoof 11y ago
  We're selling our souls, in a very real way, to the highest bidder. This ain't going to end well.
  - throwaway6969 11y ago
    No, souls != property. People sell their property and get money for it. Generally they do sell to the highest bidder. There is no collective ownership. You have no stake in other people selling their own property. There is no "we". How does a hot RE market imply things arent going to end well? Fairly big jump. Toronto is the only other hot mkt in the vast country of canada. Calgary and other cities are seeing falling RE prices.
    - gearoidoc 11y ago
      Great community spirit there, fella.
meric 11y ago
Not a bad idea...When the bubble pops buy it all back. Meanwhile, rent. That's equivalent to shorting the bubble.
- hoodoof 11y ago
  Do you think the people buying these houses are so poorly off that they will sell when times get tough or do you think they incredibly rich and will laugh off market fluctuations?
  - moistgorilla 11y ago
    if the bubble pops it means people are selling.
  - meric 11y ago
    Yes, they will sell. These people don't care about the price when they buy. They won't care about the price when they sell either. The last time a property bubble in a developed economy fueled by Chinese speculators crashed, it crashed by 70%. [1] People never see a property price crash coming. Credit Suisse First Boston – 15 July 1997: [2] We believe the supply demand imbalance will continue to drive residential prices during 4Q 1997 and into 1Q 1998. The two extremes will perform best; luxury residential prices should fare particularly well as we see flows of capital into the top end of this sector. Luxury property is also much less sensitive to affordability levels and much more geared to supply and price expectations. The smallest units (below 40 square metres) will also fare well as there is very limited supply at this level, yet they are the most affordable private sector flats. [1] http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/HK.png http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/H... [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/hong-kong-property-did-you-see-the-crash-coming-in-1997-2011-6/?r=AU&IR=T http://www.businessinsider.com/hong-kong-property-did-you-se... The overheated property markets Vancouver & Sydney are fuelled by Chinese speculators. Why are they buying overseas when there's a perfectly sound economy right on their border, Hong Kong? There's a property bubble in Hong Kong too, and it was getting expensive there, the Chinese went overseas to other well-off cities that are full of Chinese, Vancouver and Sydney. If Hong Kong was leading the price rise amongst the three cities, it might lead the price fall too. At this very moment, Hong Kong's property prices are slumping: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-01/hong-kong-property-sentiment-turns-as-sales-slump-to-25-year-low http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-01/hong-kong-... One could argue, for all the many rich people buying in Vancouver who could shrug off market fluctuation, there are even more millionaires and billionaires in Hong Kong, which has the 4th highest billionaires per capita, who could shrug off even bigger market fluctuations. Yet it's property price is falling anyway. One third of property buyers in Vancouver are Chinese. How many percent Chinese do you think are buying the property in Hong Kong?
diskcat 11y ago
>Ordinary middle class people and the young - make em rent! Why the sense of entitlement that people should be able to afford to buy a home Why indeed? If there is a shortage of housing, why not build more houses? Otherwise, if a person wants to exclusively use a piece of land, why shouldn't he have to outbid everybody else? Unless of course an 'ordinary middle class' and 'the young' are somehow more valued than 'rich chinese people' and so should be given special privileges? >In fact put one giant price on the whole of Vancouver and sell it ALL in one big job lot. Well not everybody wants to sell obviously but if everybody does want to sell, why shouldn't they sell to 'rich chinese people'? Why should they not be paid the most for what is rightfully their property?
- hoodoof 11y ago
  >> why not build more houses Because the new houses built are intended to be bought buy people who have money at incredibly high prices. This argument is the one the property developers put whenever citizens object to selling real estate overseas. In effect "don't complain, just build us more houses to sell overseas! that will solve the problem"
  - humbledrone 11y ago
    > Because the new houses built are intended to be bought buy people who have money at incredibly high prices. The demand is not infinite. If these new luxury houses actually do sell to the people who have the money to pay the incredibly high prices, what happens to the existing houses that were not purpose-built to sell to the rich? If the new houses satisfy even a part of the demand, prices on the existing houses have to drop.
  - diskcat 11y ago
    If there is a demand for both high price housing and low price housing, there would be builders for both. This is like saying "all the rich chinese are buying up all the expensive top end iphones and now all the poor people of the earth and the seas can not have smartphones for their enjoyment". Again and again I see the same 'fixed size pie' argument when somebody argues for special privileges for the 'special class' that they conveniently belong to. What about all the canadians who bought their house 4 years ago and now have their property price increased 200%? Nobody talks about those guys. You only hear the 'evil rich foreigner chinese taking up out houses' narrative. If you are a rich foreigner you are taking our houses and if you are poor then you are taking our jobs. At the end of the day these narratives are just appeal to group-identity and nationalism. They are very thinly veiled attempt at enraging people to get more 'engagement' 'views' 'clicks' or whatever. And they are clearly working because people who are sensible otherwise start losing their minds.
noam87 11y ago
The same is now happening in Toronto. It's truly awful. So many great communities being destroyed by greed. Especially if you're someone who loves city life and does not want to move away. CBC did a great piece on it: http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episodes/the-condo-game http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episodes/the-condo-game
kamaal 11y ago
>>Ordinary middle class people and the young - make em rent! Let me know the address of this secret cabal that meets every evening plotting misery and pain for the young and the middle class. On a more serious note, this is just capitalism and free market economy playing out against you. Also remember those days when people screamed real estate being a bad investment from the roof tops, while people belittled real estate investments and glorified stocks, a section of people have quietly invested in this area. The fact of the matter is these opportunities were available for every one, but just like other things like in life like age, education, marriage, kids- time is a critical factor in these things. If you don't make the right moves at the right time blaming others hardly makes sense. People can't buy expensive homes for the same reasons, people with no education can't go back in age and do their schooling. Investments are all about time, in fact I'm sure there are good house deals at the outskirts which many people are investing in. The young and middle class isn't buying them because they are too far/<regular excuses>. And yet when the prices go up after a few years and that too becomes expensive, same people will come up with the same complaints.

by hoodoof 11y ago

big_al337 11y ago

as a Canadian, your post is resonating with me...

hoodoof 11y ago
We're selling our souls, in a very real way, to the highest bidder. This ain't going to end well.
- throwaway6969 11y ago
  No, souls != property. People sell their property and get money for it. Generally they do sell to the highest bidder. There is no collective ownership. You have no stake in other people selling their own property. There is no "we". How does a hot RE market imply things arent going to end well? Fairly big jump. Toronto is the only other hot mkt in the vast country of canada. Calgary and other cities are seeing falling RE prices.
  - gearoidoc 11y ago
    Great community spirit there, fella.

meric 11y ago

Not a bad idea...When the bubble pops buy it all back. Meanwhile, rent. That's equivalent to shorting the bubble.

hoodoof 11y ago
Do you think the people buying these houses are so poorly off that they will sell when times get tough or do you think they incredibly rich and will laugh off market fluctuations?
- moistgorilla 11y ago
  if the bubble pops it means people are selling.
- meric 11y ago
  Yes, they will sell. These people don't care about the price when they buy. They won't care about the price when they sell either. The last time a property bubble in a developed economy fueled by Chinese speculators crashed, it crashed by 70%. [1] People never see a property price crash coming. Credit Suisse First Boston – 15 July 1997: [2] We believe the supply demand imbalance will continue to drive residential prices during 4Q 1997 and into 1Q 1998. The two extremes will perform best; luxury residential prices should fare particularly well as we see flows of capital into the top end of this sector. Luxury property is also much less sensitive to affordability levels and much more geared to supply and price expectations. The smallest units (below 40 square metres) will also fare well as there is very limited supply at this level, yet they are the most affordable private sector flats. [1] http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/HK.png http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/H... [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/hong-kong-property-did-you-see-the-crash-coming-in-1997-2011-6/?r=AU&IR=T http://www.businessinsider.com/hong-kong-property-did-you-se... The overheated property markets Vancouver & Sydney are fuelled by Chinese speculators. Why are they buying overseas when there's a perfectly sound economy right on their border, Hong Kong? There's a property bubble in Hong Kong too, and it was getting expensive there, the Chinese went overseas to other well-off cities that are full of Chinese, Vancouver and Sydney. If Hong Kong was leading the price rise amongst the three cities, it might lead the price fall too. At this very moment, Hong Kong's property prices are slumping: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-01/hong-kong-property-sentiment-turns-as-sales-slump-to-25-year-low http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-01/hong-kong-... One could argue, for all the many rich people buying in Vancouver who could shrug off market fluctuation, there are even more millionaires and billionaires in Hong Kong, which has the 4th highest billionaires per capita, who could shrug off even bigger market fluctuations. Yet it's property price is falling anyway. One third of property buyers in Vancouver are Chinese. How many percent Chinese do you think are buying the property in Hong Kong?

diskcat 11y ago

>Ordinary middle class people and the young - make em rent! Why the sense of entitlement that people should be able to afford to buy a home Why indeed? If there is a shortage of housing, why not build more houses? Otherwise, if a person wants to exclusively use a piece of land, why shouldn't he have to outbid everybody else? Unless of course an 'ordinary middle class' and 'the young' are somehow more valued than 'rich chinese people' and so should be given special privileges? >In fact put one giant price on the whole of Vancouver and sell it ALL in one big job lot. Well not everybody wants to sell obviously but if everybody does want to sell, why shouldn't they sell to 'rich chinese people'? Why should they not be paid the most for what is rightfully their property?

hoodoof 11y ago
>> why not build more houses Because the new houses built are intended to be bought buy people who have money at incredibly high prices. This argument is the one the property developers put whenever citizens object to selling real estate overseas. In effect "don't complain, just build us more houses to sell overseas! that will solve the problem"
- humbledrone 11y ago
  > Because the new houses built are intended to be bought buy people who have money at incredibly high prices. The demand is not infinite. If these new luxury houses actually do sell to the people who have the money to pay the incredibly high prices, what happens to the existing houses that were not purpose-built to sell to the rich? If the new houses satisfy even a part of the demand, prices on the existing houses have to drop.
- diskcat 11y ago
  If there is a demand for both high price housing and low price housing, there would be builders for both. This is like saying "all the rich chinese are buying up all the expensive top end iphones and now all the poor people of the earth and the seas can not have smartphones for their enjoyment". Again and again I see the same 'fixed size pie' argument when somebody argues for special privileges for the 'special class' that they conveniently belong to. What about all the canadians who bought their house 4 years ago and now have their property price increased 200%? Nobody talks about those guys. You only hear the 'evil rich foreigner chinese taking up out houses' narrative. If you are a rich foreigner you are taking our houses and if you are poor then you are taking our jobs. At the end of the day these narratives are just appeal to group-identity and nationalism. They are very thinly veiled attempt at enraging people to get more 'engagement' 'views' 'clicks' or whatever. And they are clearly working because people who are sensible otherwise start losing their minds.

noam87 11y ago

The same is now happening in Toronto. It's truly awful. So many great communities being destroyed by greed. Especially if you're someone who loves city life and does not want to move away. CBC did a great piece on it: http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episodes/the-condo-game http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episodes/the-condo-game

kamaal 11y ago

>>Ordinary middle class people and the young - make em rent! Let me know the address of this secret cabal that meets every evening plotting misery and pain for the young and the middle class. On a more serious note, this is just capitalism and free market economy playing out against you. Also remember those days when people screamed real estate being a bad investment from the roof tops, while people belittled real estate investments and glorified stocks, a section of people have quietly invested in this area. The fact of the matter is these opportunities were available for every one, but just like other things like in life like age, education, marriage, kids- time is a critical factor in these things. If you don't make the right moves at the right time blaming others hardly makes sense. People can't buy expensive homes for the same reasons, people with no education can't go back in age and do their schooling. Investments are all about time, in fact I'm sure there are good house deals at the outskirts which many people are investing in. The young and middle class isn't buying them because they are too far/<regular excuses>. And yet when the prices go up after a few years and that too becomes expensive, same people will come up with the same complaints.