3 ms·
This was covered in depth on the Security Now podcast in May 2015 (Transcript [1]). The Passive Keyless Entry and Start PKES system relies on the assumption tha
by fernly 11y ago
This was covered in depth on the Security Now podcast in May 2015 (Transcript [1]). The Passive Keyless Entry and Start PKES system relies on the assumption that if the car can "hear" the key, the key is in close proximity. Normally that's true but it is technically trivial to build a radio system that picks up and amplifies the car's continuous "ping" transmissions. So the key, which might be in your pocket in a restaurant, hears its car's ping, it responds, and the bad guys pick that up and amplify it and the car says, ok, key is here, open the door.
[1] https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-508.htm https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-508.htm
- kobayashi 11y agoI used to enjoy listening to Security Now! quite a bit, but then I began to feel and read that Steve is not the security expert he claims to be. I'd like to hear corroborating or opposing views from the HN community. Side note: if you have a great infosec podcast to recommend, please share!
- functionCall 11y agohttp://risky.biz/ http://risky.biz/ is a great security podcast. For me the earlier stuff from SN was far better, but now it is mainly adverts and talk about non security stuff.
- Daneel_ 11y agoA big +1 for risky business - I've been listening to Patrick's podcast for well over five years and will happily advocate for the quality of the coverage.
- surge 11y agoI think they're trying to restart Exotic Liability, that was good back when it was running. I loved the rants. There are a few others out there but none worth mentioning.
- augustl 11y agoWow, that's an interesting hack. I can't think of any workarounds either. EDIT: As pointed out in a comment elsewhere in this thread: > The simplest defeat is to require the key ping round trip to complete in N microseconds, where N is sufficiently low. Researchers have demostrated that this is a practical solution.
- coldpie 11y ago> Wow, that's an interesting hack. I can't think of any workarounds either. Don't Have Keyless Entry. It's getting to the point where I don't think I'll ever buy a car made after the early 2010s.
- discreditable 11y agoOn my Toyota Prius, it's possible to turn off the keyless entry system in the car's settings IIRC. You'd then have to use the removable key in the fob to open the driver's door.
- hnbroseph 11y agopeople have been stealing cars since cars were invented; avoiding keyless entry doesn't exactly immunize you.
- Dylan16807 11y agoRemember, light moves at one foot per nanosecond. You need to perform a cryptographically-safe ping with timing drift of less than 15 nanoseconds.
- burkaman 11y agoI think this is doable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distance-bounding_protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distance-bounding_protocol
- Dylan16807 11y agoDoable doesn't mean easy though. It's far harder than dealing with microseconds. And how much do analog prover components cost?