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As far as I can see, Apple 'get' the different use cases better than some others in the industry. That's why they've been reluctant to add touch screen to their

As far as I can see, Apple 'get' the different use cases better than some others in the industry. That's why they've been reluctant to add touch screen to their laptops as Microsoft have done, because they don't see it being useful. I think this was just an ill-judged offhand comment. P.S. I'm typing this on an 2010 MBP which, with an SSD upgrade, still works beautifully.

Udo 11y ago
> I think this was just an ill-judged offhand comment. I don't think you have provided sufficient information as to why you think my comment was bad. You say the 'get' different use cases better than most in the industry, and that used to be something I agree with. However, this effect is shrinking, at least as far as my personal needs are concerned - which is admittedly anecdotal. > P.S. I'm typing this on an 2010 MBP which, with an SSD upgrade, still works beautifully. I did the same thing with my 2012 MBP, but I'll have to replace the machine entirely for performance reasons soon, and there is no upgrade path for current MBP models anymore, at all. What you buy is what you'll have.
- the_af 11y ago
  I think the parent poster meant this was "just an ill-judged offhand comment" on Schiller's part, not you :)
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
consto 11y ago
My laptop has a touch screen, and I have it disabled in device manager to stop people (including me) touching it.
- fpgeek 11y ago
  Conversely, my 7 year old daughter dramatically prefers her guest account on my touchscreen laptop as opposed to the non-touch Chromebook we had intended for her to use. She just has a hard time wrapping her head around the idea of a screen that doesn't do anything when you touch it.
  - e12e 11y ago
    I actually always thought the part of "the mother of all demos"[1], where "the mouse" is introduced is a bit awkward, like they know it's a poor hack. Just because we've got a lot of mileage out of it, doesn't mean it's a great input solution. One IMNHO good indication of that is that children (not just your daughter :) seem to overwhelmingly seem to prefer touch input. I'm mostly in agreement with the article, but the author also misses some things, I think: > Yes, the iPad Pro has a very fancy stylus. That’s great for artists, but the vast majority of people aren’t artists and don’t care. > Yes, the iPad Pro has a very fancy, true-to-color screen. That’s great for artists, but the vast majority of people aren’t artists and don’t care. I think good touch and pen input really still is the obvious better way to input. It doesn't work well (enough) without a few decades of UI engineering and real-world testing -- but a "real" digital drawing pad and touch interface is probably a very sensible way to spend the improvements Moore's law have given us: My Amiga 2000 had 4?MB of ram and a 7Mhz processor, my current desktop has four cores at 4Ghz and 16GB of RAM. Using some of that to go from 4096 colours and 320x256 to 24bit 4K or 8k along with real-time input in the form of free-form painting/writing seems reasonable. Just because it's so hard to paint with a mouse that most computer users aren't digital artists, while everyone that's been given pen and paper will have at doodled is a great indication that we need better input for our digital devices. As for the better screen - I think getting pixel resolution on par with print resolution can only be a good thing. Personally I find it much more comfortable to read a thousand pages at high dpi, than at "standard" +/- 1080p on a 20-24" monitor. [1] http://www.wired.com/2010/12/1209computer-mouse-mother-of-all-demos/ http://www.wired.com/2010/12/1209computer-mouse-mother-of-al... "The Mother of All Demos, presented by Douglas Engelbart (1968)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJDv-zdhzMY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJDv-zdhzMY
microcolonel 11y ago
For what it's worth, I really like having a touch screen on my laptops. I don't buy laptops without touch screens anymore. But I don't run Windows, maybe on Windows it really IS pointless. Personally I think the greatest strength of the MBPs is the display. The touchpad is rather good in terms of quality, but is ultimately irrelevant to me because I wouldn't use it; it's an ergonomic disaster, especially for day-long work.
gambiting 11y ago
>>P.S. I'm typing this on an 2010 MBP which, with an SSD upgrade, still works beautifully. late-2009 MBP here. Core2Duo 2.4GHz + 4GB of ram. I added a 128GB SSD a year ago and it works beautifully, really fast enough for almost everything.
Aleman360 11y ago
The big iPad Pro is a 13" laptop with a touch screen, it's just that the keyboard is detachable and it doesn't have a trackpad. The ergonomic issues are even worse since iOS doesn't support mouse and the screen angle isn't adjustable.
venomsnake 11y ago
> P.S. I'm typing this on an 2010 MBP which, with an SSD upgrade, still works beautifully. Congratulations. You have one of the last macs that were upgradeable.
ams6110 11y ago
Or maybe they haven't added touch screen to the laptops because then some fraction of owners might not feel the need to buy an iPad?
- robmcm 11y ago
  Maybe they haven't added music playback to the iPhone because then some fraction of owners might not feel the need to buy an iPod? Apple promote their ability and willingness to cannibalize their own products.
peeters 11y ago
I would argue the Surface was the first device that can actually bridge both form factors. I have a stock HP laptop with a touchscreen and Windows 10, and yeah, I don't really use the touchscreen. But my mother has a Surface and splits the use pretty evenly between typing emails and looking up recipes or travel sites, and also doing jigsaw puzzles using the touchscreen. I mean Apple's response to the different use cases is "buy two specialized devices", Microsoft's was to create a device that tries to do both. Yeah it's taken them a long time to be successful with that strategy, but I wouldn't say it's failing entirely.

Udo 11y ago

> I think this was just an ill-judged offhand comment. I don't think you have provided sufficient information as to why you think my comment was bad. You say the 'get' different use cases better than most in the industry, and that used to be something I agree with. However, this effect is shrinking, at least as far as my personal needs are concerned - which is admittedly anecdotal. > P.S. I'm typing this on an 2010 MBP which, with an SSD upgrade, still works beautifully. I did the same thing with my 2012 MBP, but I'll have to replace the machine entirely for performance reasons soon, and there is no upgrade path for current MBP models anymore, at all. What you buy is what you'll have.

the_af 11y ago
I think the parent poster meant this was "just an ill-judged offhand comment" on Schiller's part, not you :)
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

consto 11y ago

My laptop has a touch screen, and I have it disabled in device manager to stop people (including me) touching it.

fpgeek 11y ago
Conversely, my 7 year old daughter dramatically prefers her guest account on my touchscreen laptop as opposed to the non-touch Chromebook we had intended for her to use. She just has a hard time wrapping her head around the idea of a screen that doesn't do anything when you touch it.
- e12e 11y ago
  I actually always thought the part of "the mother of all demos"[1], where "the mouse" is introduced is a bit awkward, like they know it's a poor hack. Just because we've got a lot of mileage out of it, doesn't mean it's a great input solution. One IMNHO good indication of that is that children (not just your daughter :) seem to overwhelmingly seem to prefer touch input. I'm mostly in agreement with the article, but the author also misses some things, I think: > Yes, the iPad Pro has a very fancy stylus. That’s great for artists, but the vast majority of people aren’t artists and don’t care. > Yes, the iPad Pro has a very fancy, true-to-color screen. That’s great for artists, but the vast majority of people aren’t artists and don’t care. I think good touch and pen input really still is the obvious better way to input. It doesn't work well (enough) without a few decades of UI engineering and real-world testing -- but a "real" digital drawing pad and touch interface is probably a very sensible way to spend the improvements Moore's law have given us: My Amiga 2000 had 4?MB of ram and a 7Mhz processor, my current desktop has four cores at 4Ghz and 16GB of RAM. Using some of that to go from 4096 colours and 320x256 to 24bit 4K or 8k along with real-time input in the form of free-form painting/writing seems reasonable. Just because it's so hard to paint with a mouse that most computer users aren't digital artists, while everyone that's been given pen and paper will have at doodled is a great indication that we need better input for our digital devices. As for the better screen - I think getting pixel resolution on par with print resolution can only be a good thing. Personally I find it much more comfortable to read a thousand pages at high dpi, than at "standard" +/- 1080p on a 20-24" monitor. [1] http://www.wired.com/2010/12/1209computer-mouse-mother-of-all-demos/ http://www.wired.com/2010/12/1209computer-mouse-mother-of-al... "The Mother of All Demos, presented by Douglas Engelbart (1968)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJDv-zdhzMY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJDv-zdhzMY

microcolonel 11y ago

For what it's worth, I really like having a touch screen on my laptops. I don't buy laptops without touch screens anymore. But I don't run Windows, maybe on Windows it really IS pointless. Personally I think the greatest strength of the MBPs is the display. The touchpad is rather good in terms of quality, but is ultimately irrelevant to me because I wouldn't use it; it's an ergonomic disaster, especially for day-long work.

gambiting 11y ago

>>P.S. I'm typing this on an 2010 MBP which, with an SSD upgrade, still works beautifully. late-2009 MBP here. Core2Duo 2.4GHz + 4GB of ram. I added a 128GB SSD a year ago and it works beautifully, really fast enough for almost everything.

Aleman360 11y ago

The big iPad Pro is a 13" laptop with a touch screen, it's just that the keyboard is detachable and it doesn't have a trackpad. The ergonomic issues are even worse since iOS doesn't support mouse and the screen angle isn't adjustable.

venomsnake 11y ago

> P.S. I'm typing this on an 2010 MBP which, with an SSD upgrade, still works beautifully. Congratulations. You have one of the last macs that were upgradeable.

ams6110 11y ago

Or maybe they haven't added touch screen to the laptops because then some fraction of owners might not feel the need to buy an iPad?

robmcm 11y ago
Maybe they haven't added music playback to the iPhone because then some fraction of owners might not feel the need to buy an iPod? Apple promote their ability and willingness to cannibalize their own products.

peeters 11y ago

I would argue the Surface was the first device that can actually bridge both form factors. I have a stock HP laptop with a touchscreen and Windows 10, and yeah, I don't really use the touchscreen. But my mother has a Surface and splits the use pretty evenly between typing emails and looking up recipes or travel sites, and also doing jigsaw puzzles using the touchscreen. I mean Apple's response to the different use cases is "buy two specialized devices", Microsoft's was to create a device that tries to do both. Yeah it's taken them a long time to be successful with that strategy, but I wouldn't say it's failing entirely.