7 ms·

I still maintain there's age-cohort bias (anti boomer, etc.), not strictly age bias. In 2000, I remember most people over 30 being clueless about the Internet

by rdl 11y ago

I still maintain there's age-cohort bias (anti boomer, etc.), not strictly age bias. In 2000, I remember most people over 30 being clueless about the Internet (given that the population who were familiar with the Internet in the 80swas so small...that core group was of course super clueful, but was of measure zero vs. people who were learning about it in college every year.) Now, it's largely been the case that anyone in engineering/tech has had extensive contact with the Internet, even if not a CS person, since the 90s. 30s/40s today are a lot different from 15 years ago. In 10-20y, there will be plenty of 50/60 year olds who had grown up with the Internet. So while this might be a problem now, it's correcting itself with time.

zeroxfe 11y ago
Sure, although there will continue to be new technologies that separate one generation from the next.
- kctess5 11y ago
  While this may be true at some level, I'm not sure it will be as drastic a change as no-internet to internet. Young people today (and increasingly many not-so-young people) have been growing up with the concept of quickly changing "high technology" and expect incremental change. I myself feel like if the next biggest shiniest thing comes along, I will be ready to jump aboard, with the benefit of deeply knowing that which came before. This is a sentiment which requires constant learning, which may get old after a while, but for now I consider staying with the times as part of the job description.
  - Retric 11y ago
    I don't think it's going to be any time soon, but brain augmentation / neural interfaces are likely in the long term. Whenever they show up it's probably going to be a much larger leap than the internet. PS: Don't forget in many ways the steam engine was the last major leap and that was in the late 1700's.
vox_mollis 11y ago
I'd hazard a guess that there is some appearance bias involved, as well. Older people tend toward higher BMI, and younger overweight people "carry" their weight better. Discrimination on appearance is already well-documented.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  Should appearance be a protected class? One often has more control over their religion than their appearance, especially in certain areas, so I can't see why no.
- rdl 11y ago
  I'm a fat bald white guy who is nearly 40. I haven't really noticed this to be a problem.
- rdl 11y ago
  I'm a fat bald white guy who is nearly 40. I haven't really noticed this to be a problem.
beachstartup 11y ago
we have 30- 40- and 50-somethings working for us that have 20 years of experience with the internet. the first dot com boom was that long ago (1996). the oldest started in their 30s, the youngest started in their teens. this doesn't even count archaic technologies no longer in use. we are in a new era, one in which someone's age doesn't really tell you anything about their tech relevance. we generally hire based on experience only, not specific technologies or schools, so we end up with employees all over the map.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
tetraodonpuffer 11y ago
> So while this might be a problem now, it's correcting itself with time. that assumes that the reasons behind age discrimination/bias are purely based on competence (or lack thereof). I don't see the problem correcting itself when it seems the drivers behind age discrimination are wages and perceived cultural fit (anecdotally more evident in cases where the manager is younger than the candidate)
- yummyfajitas 11y ago
  I don't see the problem correcting itself when it seems the drivers behind age discrimination are wages This is a situation where it's not age discrimination at all - it's merely a candidate pricing themselves out of the market. Similarly, toomuchtodo suggests that as his life moves forward he'll be less willing to put the work in than his younger peers. That reduces his value. Perhaps a significant chunk of age discrimination is merely workers being unwilling to recognize/acknowledge their actual market worth.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    "Similarly, toomuchtodo suggests that as his life moves forward he'll be less willing to put the work in than his younger peers. That reduces his value." While my value is reduced by not working more hours than I'm paid for, I would argue that government should be stepping in when tech companies are discriminating against workers who would like labor law followed (paid for the hours you work). Why is it okay for workers to be taken advantage of (required to work more hours than they're compensated for) but regulation of employers to protect workers (prohibit) employers from requiring unpaid time) is not? This is not progress. It's theft.
    - cmdrfred 11y ago
      It is estimated that wage theft is the number one property crime in the US.[1] [1]http://priceonomics.com/how-employers-get-out-of-paying-their-workers/ http://priceonomics.com/how-employers-get-out-of-paying-thei...
maerF0x0 11y ago
Along the same lines you propose for "grew up with internet" there will always be a next new hotness. For example many new grads will have no idea what its like to run a physical server because of cloud platforms. Same thing for Android/iOS programming, or mobile websites, or microservices, or NoSQL etc etc. Some will have had them from school onward, others will have encountered them late in their career.

by rdl 11y ago

zeroxfe 11y ago

Sure, although there will continue to be new technologies that separate one generation from the next.

kctess5 11y ago
While this may be true at some level, I'm not sure it will be as drastic a change as no-internet to internet. Young people today (and increasingly many not-so-young people) have been growing up with the concept of quickly changing "high technology" and expect incremental change. I myself feel like if the next biggest shiniest thing comes along, I will be ready to jump aboard, with the benefit of deeply knowing that which came before. This is a sentiment which requires constant learning, which may get old after a while, but for now I consider staying with the times as part of the job description.
- Retric 11y ago
  I don't think it's going to be any time soon, but brain augmentation / neural interfaces are likely in the long term. Whenever they show up it's probably going to be a much larger leap than the internet. PS: Don't forget in many ways the steam engine was the last major leap and that was in the late 1700's.

vox_mollis 11y ago

I'd hazard a guess that there is some appearance bias involved, as well. Older people tend toward higher BMI, and younger overweight people "carry" their weight better. Discrimination on appearance is already well-documented.

Lawtonfogle 11y ago
Should appearance be a protected class? One often has more control over their religion than their appearance, especially in certain areas, so I can't see why no.
rdl 11y ago
I'm a fat bald white guy who is nearly 40. I haven't really noticed this to be a problem.
rdl 11y ago
I'm a fat bald white guy who is nearly 40. I haven't really noticed this to be a problem.

beachstartup 11y ago

we have 30- 40- and 50-somethings working for us that have 20 years of experience with the internet. the first dot com boom was that long ago (1996). the oldest started in their 30s, the youngest started in their teens. this doesn't even count archaic technologies no longer in use. we are in a new era, one in which someone's age doesn't really tell you anything about their tech relevance. we generally hire based on experience only, not specific technologies or schools, so we end up with employees all over the map.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

tetraodonpuffer 11y ago

> So while this might be a problem now, it's correcting itself with time. that assumes that the reasons behind age discrimination/bias are purely based on competence (or lack thereof). I don't see the problem correcting itself when it seems the drivers behind age discrimination are wages and perceived cultural fit (anecdotally more evident in cases where the manager is younger than the candidate)

yummyfajitas 11y ago
I don't see the problem correcting itself when it seems the drivers behind age discrimination are wages This is a situation where it's not age discrimination at all - it's merely a candidate pricing themselves out of the market. Similarly, toomuchtodo suggests that as his life moves forward he'll be less willing to put the work in than his younger peers. That reduces his value. Perhaps a significant chunk of age discrimination is merely workers being unwilling to recognize/acknowledge their actual market worth.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  "Similarly, toomuchtodo suggests that as his life moves forward he'll be less willing to put the work in than his younger peers. That reduces his value." While my value is reduced by not working more hours than I'm paid for, I would argue that government should be stepping in when tech companies are discriminating against workers who would like labor law followed (paid for the hours you work). Why is it okay for workers to be taken advantage of (required to work more hours than they're compensated for) but regulation of employers to protect workers (prohibit) employers from requiring unpaid time) is not? This is not progress. It's theft.
  - cmdrfred 11y ago
    It is estimated that wage theft is the number one property crime in the US.[1] [1]http://priceonomics.com/how-employers-get-out-of-paying-their-workers/ http://priceonomics.com/how-employers-get-out-of-paying-thei...

maerF0x0 11y ago

Along the same lines you propose for "grew up with internet" there will always be a next new hotness. For example many new grads will have no idea what its like to run a physical server because of cloud platforms. Same thing for Android/iOS programming, or mobile websites, or microservices, or NoSQL etc etc. Some will have had them from school onward, others will have encountered them late in their career.