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No, but at least you hold the reigns. Failure is your own, not someone else's. Taking a bet on yourself is an honest gamble. Taking a bet on someone else is a h

No, but at least you hold the reigns. Failure is your own, not someone else's. Taking a bet on yourself is an honest gamble. Taking a bet on someone else is a huge unknown. If you're gonna take a bet, you might as well hold all the cards.

amelius 11y ago
The problem is that you are still betting on your customers buying your product.
- delinka 11y ago
  In the case of someone else's startup, you're also betting on the ability of the rest of the team that the founder(s) hired. E.g. if they hired a lousy sales team and they can't make effective sales.
- jwdunne 11y ago
  That doesn't sound like a straight up gamble. It is if you have no idea if your customers want to pay for your product but there are ways to remove this unknown i.e knowing that people are willing to pay before building anything that costs a significant amount.
  - amelius 11y ago
    How many startups are actually researching this beforehand? Did Google even research this for e.g. Wave and Glass? In any case, I think you are making it sound more easy than it actually is.
    - jwdunne 11y ago
      I never said it was easy. That and most businesses don't create new technology. There are industries out there that could use tech that already exists but either they don't know about it, it hasn't been shaped to their needs or both. There is also the possibility the market leader is offering a crap solution (I've seen this a few times in the healthcare space).
    - nostrademons 11y ago
      Wave and Glass aren't great examples of how to run new product design. Usually, the way to handle this is to build a really cheap, quick & dirty prototype and put that in front of users. Etherpad did this for collaborative editing, then got bought by Google, with the functionality folded into Google Docs. Google Cardboard did this effectively for augmented reality, and I'd bet that they're taking the learning from it right now for Google's 2nd-gen AR/VR products.
morgante 11y ago
> If you're gonna take a bet, you might as well hold all the cards. Is it inconceivable that you might think a bet on someone else is better, at least in the current time? I'd certainly value equity in a startup founded by a successful entrepreneur with previous huge exits over equity in a startup which I don't even have a good idea for. Of course, you should still demand a good salary. Particularly because the companies with the most valuable equity are also the ones who can pay you well. The startups paying peanuts are also, in general, useless.
- st3v3r 11y ago
  "Is it inconceivable that you might think a bet on someone else is better, at least in the current time?" You might think it is, but that's probably before you realize that, even if the company does work out, you're going to get fucked by the founders and VCs.
- nostrademons 11y ago
  It's certainly conceivable, and can often be pretty lucrative. I folded up my first startup and joined Google because they knew what they were doing and I didn't, and ended up making a lot more money than many of my peers in the startup world. The thing is - if this is actually the situation, it'll usually be pretty apparent. You'll get super excited just interviewing with them. If you feel like you're "taking a bet" on working with someone, you probably are, and it isn't likely to be a good bet.
  - morgante 11y ago
    Good point. The best "bets" don't even feel like bets.
nkrisc 11y ago
But even then are you really holding all the cards? Are all factors of success really in your control?
superuser2 11y ago
> Failure is your own, not someone else's. That's not really true. Businesses fail for lots of reasons which are not related to the founders doing something wrong.

amelius 11y ago

The problem is that you are still betting on your customers buying your product.

delinka 11y ago
In the case of someone else's startup, you're also betting on the ability of the rest of the team that the founder(s) hired. E.g. if they hired a lousy sales team and they can't make effective sales.
jwdunne 11y ago
That doesn't sound like a straight up gamble. It is if you have no idea if your customers want to pay for your product but there are ways to remove this unknown i.e knowing that people are willing to pay before building anything that costs a significant amount.
- amelius 11y ago
  How many startups are actually researching this beforehand? Did Google even research this for e.g. Wave and Glass? In any case, I think you are making it sound more easy than it actually is.
  - jwdunne 11y ago
    I never said it was easy. That and most businesses don't create new technology. There are industries out there that could use tech that already exists but either they don't know about it, it hasn't been shaped to their needs or both. There is also the possibility the market leader is offering a crap solution (I've seen this a few times in the healthcare space).
  - nostrademons 11y ago
    Wave and Glass aren't great examples of how to run new product design. Usually, the way to handle this is to build a really cheap, quick & dirty prototype and put that in front of users. Etherpad did this for collaborative editing, then got bought by Google, with the functionality folded into Google Docs. Google Cardboard did this effectively for augmented reality, and I'd bet that they're taking the learning from it right now for Google's 2nd-gen AR/VR products.

morgante 11y ago

> If you're gonna take a bet, you might as well hold all the cards. Is it inconceivable that you might think a bet on someone else is better, at least in the current time? I'd certainly value equity in a startup founded by a successful entrepreneur with previous huge exits over equity in a startup which I don't even have a good idea for. Of course, you should still demand a good salary. Particularly because the companies with the most valuable equity are also the ones who can pay you well. The startups paying peanuts are also, in general, useless.

st3v3r 11y ago
"Is it inconceivable that you might think a bet on someone else is better, at least in the current time?" You might think it is, but that's probably before you realize that, even if the company does work out, you're going to get fucked by the founders and VCs.
nostrademons 11y ago
It's certainly conceivable, and can often be pretty lucrative. I folded up my first startup and joined Google because they knew what they were doing and I didn't, and ended up making a lot more money than many of my peers in the startup world. The thing is - if this is actually the situation, it'll usually be pretty apparent. You'll get super excited just interviewing with them. If you feel like you're "taking a bet" on working with someone, you probably are, and it isn't likely to be a good bet.
- morgante 11y ago
  Good point. The best "bets" don't even feel like bets.

nkrisc 11y ago

But even then are you really holding all the cards? Are all factors of success really in your control?

superuser2 11y ago

> Failure is your own, not someone else's. That's not really true. Businesses fail for lots of reasons which are not related to the founders doing something wrong.