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I'm the guy you were when you started. I don't care how much do I get nor how much time I have to put into it as long as I like doing it and have something to

I'm the guy you were when you started. I don't care how much do I get nor how much time I have to put into it as long as I like doing it and have something to eat. I don't care if suits call me stupid behind my back or take advantage of that. They can keep their money, while I keep my passion: I think I get the better end of the deal. And I'll try to stay that way :)

FloNeu 11y ago
Sorry, but that's stupid... Being exploited and loving it - more sounds like an mental illness then passion. You can keep your passion - even when you get paid fairly... But enjoy your happiness in slavery, if you like. Bad thing is you hurt people who may need fair compensation (wife, kids etc. ) for their work, because you show the suits they can find people stupid enough to do so... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xH7eGFuSYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xH7eGFuSYI
- pc86 11y ago
  This is rude but it's not incorrect (although I did not open the YT link). Working for a below-market salary as someone with little external responsibilities is actively damaging to those with such dependencies. If a company knows they'll find someone to program for $50k a year if they just wait long enough, they are extremely unlikely to hire the person who demands and is worth $120k a year.
  - FloNeu 11y ago
    You are right, i apologize for my tone...
cranium 11y ago
Why not even trying to get something fair? I have the feeling that you don't value much your work to accept this state of affairs between you and whoever employs you. If you deliver quality products and can negotiate a bit, employers will pay you more and you will feel respected for your work. Go get paid for what you're worth, not just for being able to keep food on your plate. It's not OK to continue being exploited.
- SlySherZ 11y ago
  Would you rather have 32 or 128GB of RAM on your computer? It's a rather pointless question right? As long as you have enough, having more is not worth the hassle. Same thing with currency, as long the threshold is met, the rest is worthless (IMO). It's not that I don't value my work, but instead that more money doesn't mean more value for me, so even if a company wanted to reward me more they couldn't add more value through money. Don't you think having a peaceful life doing what you like to do in exchange for your work is a fair deal? I think it is ^ ^
  - nmrm2 11y ago
    Even if you only care about programming, you should still try to get a fair deal. Places that treat you fair are more likely to have high-quality senior devs who will make you better at your craft. Aynways, the currency does still matter. Take it, throw it in a retirement account, and then build whatever the hell you want post-retirement. Building X might be fun, but after N years building slight variations of X you'll probably want to go off and make something else. Maybe even something people won't pay you to make. And then having those extra $$$ will make all the difference in the world.
  - lgieron 11y ago
    > As long as you have enough, having more is not worth the hassle. For money, 'Enough' is FU money (i.e. not having to work again in your life).
    - SlySherZ 11y ago
      Not really. Would you enjoy a game that starts with 100% progress? Probably yes, but not for long. Having no safety net means I have to keep moving no matter what.
      - lgieron 11y ago
        Well, for one thing, there's more to life than earning money necessary to prevent starvation...
nl 11y ago
Don't listen to people who say you are stupid. Do your thing, don't get exploited and you'll have fun. Some people pay to do things they find fun. But don't get exploited. Seriously.
yodsanklai 11y ago
> as long as I like doing it and have something to eat. Maybe it's enough now. But in 20 years, when you start to have medical expenses, kids, you may regret that you didn't earn a little more while you still could, especially if all you have are technical skills.
jccc 11y ago
> They can keep their money, while I keep my passion: I think I get the better end of the deal. I think many HN readers here could tell you that the better you ensure your compensation the better the work itself is. The respect you get from "the suits" comes both in pay and in the kinds of work you get to do.
amelius 11y ago
This is not smart. The more money you make, the more freedom you have. Imagine that one day you would like to work on something which has zero market value (/open-source?). If you have some saved cash, that would be a possibility. Also, what if you want to work on something that requires more investment (like a GPU rig, e.g. for neural network training, or for ray tracing). Wouldn't it be nice if you could buy one yourself?
- oriolid 11y ago
  I could, but these projects go to people who haven't numbed their minds on ten years of enterprise bullshit.
- 5ilv3r 11y ago
  This is not true. You may be confusing freedom and power.
bakhy 11y ago
obvious troll is obvious.
alphabetam 11y ago
You're young and have no family.
- leke 11y ago
  ...maybe lives in his parents basement.
  - oriolid 11y ago
    ...too stupid to invent new insults.
  - 5ilv3r 11y ago
    That's a pretty shitty stereotype to apply.
kdamken 11y ago
I hope you realize the error of your thinking soon. Money is important. It may not be as important as your health, but it comes close. Money buys freedom from the slavery of having to work. Until you have enough money to never have to work again, you are not free. When you do, you can spend all your time working on and doing whatever you like, pursuing whatever passions you wish. If your current passions are valuable to employers, get the most money possible you can out of it. You are not a charity. Even if if you feel this way now, you're screwing over your future self (and possibly family) by not building a solid financial foundation.
- 5ilv3r 11y ago
  "Money buys freedom from the slavery of having to work." This is true for so few people that it may as well be false. It 'can' buy freedom from work, but for most it just leads to more work.
  - kdamken 11y ago
    What I mean by that is it gives you the choice of what kind of work you do, and when you do it. If you're financially independent, you are free to do what you like with your time. For example, when I (hopefully) reach that point, I'll probably still code websites because I like to do that, but I won't do it 40 hours a week. An important part of it is realizing what is enough.
conradfr 11y ago
There is a lot of people, especially higher-ups, that will respect you more if you ask more. And you got to do the same job.
5ilv3r 11y ago
Good for you. As long as you have more than you need, you're ahead of the game. I don't like money either, but I also have a house, 2 cars, a wife and kid.... And I'm underpaid and happy. I have a nice job with a good work life balance (as in <40h on average) and so I actually have time on the side for projects I really enjoy. I have (growing) savings and a 401k. There's no reason to waste your life on the love of money. Just know your needs and make enough to cover them. Product of this weekend's free time: http://i.imgur.com/73PmOSf.webm http://i.imgur.com/73PmOSf.webm
st3v3r 11y ago
Why? Do you honestly think you won't be able to get that "passion" getting a market salary? You're definitely not getting the better end of the deal.

FloNeu 11y ago

Sorry, but that's stupid... Being exploited and loving it - more sounds like an mental illness then passion. You can keep your passion - even when you get paid fairly... But enjoy your happiness in slavery, if you like. Bad thing is you hurt people who may need fair compensation (wife, kids etc. ) for their work, because you show the suits they can find people stupid enough to do so... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xH7eGFuSYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xH7eGFuSYI

pc86 11y ago
This is rude but it's not incorrect (although I did not open the YT link). Working for a below-market salary as someone with little external responsibilities is actively damaging to those with such dependencies. If a company knows they'll find someone to program for $50k a year if they just wait long enough, they are extremely unlikely to hire the person who demands and is worth $120k a year.
- FloNeu 11y ago
  You are right, i apologize for my tone...

cranium 11y ago

Why not even trying to get something fair? I have the feeling that you don't value much your work to accept this state of affairs between you and whoever employs you. If you deliver quality products and can negotiate a bit, employers will pay you more and you will feel respected for your work. Go get paid for what you're worth, not just for being able to keep food on your plate. It's not OK to continue being exploited.

SlySherZ 11y ago
Would you rather have 32 or 128GB of RAM on your computer? It's a rather pointless question right? As long as you have enough, having more is not worth the hassle. Same thing with currency, as long the threshold is met, the rest is worthless (IMO). It's not that I don't value my work, but instead that more money doesn't mean more value for me, so even if a company wanted to reward me more they couldn't add more value through money. Don't you think having a peaceful life doing what you like to do in exchange for your work is a fair deal? I think it is ^ ^
- nmrm2 11y ago
  Even if you only care about programming, you should still try to get a fair deal. Places that treat you fair are more likely to have high-quality senior devs who will make you better at your craft. Aynways, the currency does still matter. Take it, throw it in a retirement account, and then build whatever the hell you want post-retirement. Building X might be fun, but after N years building slight variations of X you'll probably want to go off and make something else. Maybe even something people won't pay you to make. And then having those extra $$$ will make all the difference in the world.
- lgieron 11y ago
  > As long as you have enough, having more is not worth the hassle. For money, 'Enough' is FU money (i.e. not having to work again in your life).
  - SlySherZ 11y ago
    Not really. Would you enjoy a game that starts with 100% progress? Probably yes, but not for long. Having no safety net means I have to keep moving no matter what.
    - lgieron 11y ago
      Well, for one thing, there's more to life than earning money necessary to prevent starvation...

nl 11y ago

Don't listen to people who say you are stupid. Do your thing, don't get exploited and you'll have fun. Some people pay to do things they find fun. But don't get exploited. Seriously.

yodsanklai 11y ago

> as long as I like doing it and have something to eat. Maybe it's enough now. But in 20 years, when you start to have medical expenses, kids, you may regret that you didn't earn a little more while you still could, especially if all you have are technical skills.

jccc 11y ago

> They can keep their money, while I keep my passion: I think I get the better end of the deal. I think many HN readers here could tell you that the better you ensure your compensation the better the work itself is. The respect you get from "the suits" comes both in pay and in the kinds of work you get to do.

amelius 11y ago

This is not smart. The more money you make, the more freedom you have. Imagine that one day you would like to work on something which has zero market value (/open-source?). If you have some saved cash, that would be a possibility. Also, what if you want to work on something that requires more investment (like a GPU rig, e.g. for neural network training, or for ray tracing). Wouldn't it be nice if you could buy one yourself?

oriolid 11y ago
I could, but these projects go to people who haven't numbed their minds on ten years of enterprise bullshit.
5ilv3r 11y ago
This is not true. You may be confusing freedom and power.

bakhy 11y ago

obvious troll is obvious.

alphabetam 11y ago

You're young and have no family.

leke 11y ago
...maybe lives in his parents basement.
- oriolid 11y ago
  ...too stupid to invent new insults.
- 5ilv3r 11y ago
  That's a pretty shitty stereotype to apply.

kdamken 11y ago

I hope you realize the error of your thinking soon. Money is important. It may not be as important as your health, but it comes close. Money buys freedom from the slavery of having to work. Until you have enough money to never have to work again, you are not free. When you do, you can spend all your time working on and doing whatever you like, pursuing whatever passions you wish. If your current passions are valuable to employers, get the most money possible you can out of it. You are not a charity. Even if if you feel this way now, you're screwing over your future self (and possibly family) by not building a solid financial foundation.

5ilv3r 11y ago
"Money buys freedom from the slavery of having to work." This is true for so few people that it may as well be false. It 'can' buy freedom from work, but for most it just leads to more work.
- kdamken 11y ago
  What I mean by that is it gives you the choice of what kind of work you do, and when you do it. If you're financially independent, you are free to do what you like with your time. For example, when I (hopefully) reach that point, I'll probably still code websites because I like to do that, but I won't do it 40 hours a week. An important part of it is realizing what is enough.

conradfr 11y ago

There is a lot of people, especially higher-ups, that will respect you more if you ask more. And you got to do the same job.

5ilv3r 11y ago

Good for you. As long as you have more than you need, you're ahead of the game. I don't like money either, but I also have a house, 2 cars, a wife and kid.... And I'm underpaid and happy. I have a nice job with a good work life balance (as in <40h on average) and so I actually have time on the side for projects I really enjoy. I have (growing) savings and a 401k. There's no reason to waste your life on the love of money. Just know your needs and make enough to cover them. Product of this weekend's free time: http://i.imgur.com/73PmOSf.webm http://i.imgur.com/73PmOSf.webm

st3v3r 11y ago

Why? Do you honestly think you won't be able to get that "passion" getting a market salary? You're definitely not getting the better end of the deal.