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OK, I'll take your word for it. Everything I do is being tracked, recorded and passed around by companies big and small. Yep, got it. Anyone care to speculat

by state 11y ago

OK, I'll take your word for it. Everything I do is being tracked, recorded and passed around by companies big and small. Yep, got it. Anyone care to speculate on how we actually change this situation? Or is it that there's really not much utility in privacy for most people, so we can just forget about it permanently. I realize that the paths to change are either regulatory or technical (and I find the latter more likely), but seriously: paint the picture. Should we just accept this as the norm? (edit: grammar)

bduerst 11y ago
This isn't a popular question, but is there really a problem? I've heard the big-brother nightmare scenario type answers before, but I'm curious to see how they are more likely to negatively affect me than a car accident or slipping in the shower. Even with government agencies (NSA/FBI) overstepping or trying to overstep their limits, isn't the root problem with policy makers keeping them in line?
- astazangasta 11y ago
  We're possibly months away from a Trump presidency, and you're not worried that this sort of power exists in the world? Trump aside, the general trend is increasingly fascist. Maybe you're safely ensconced in the glitterati, but I am a known leftist with brown skin; I'm going to worry.
  - bduerst 11y ago
    Come on, even this nightmare scenario isn't that nightmarish. The POTUS commands the nuclear arsenal, which is arguably more powerful than knowing my shopping habits.
    - majewsky 11y ago
      Depends. The POTUS is not likely to use the nuclear arsenal against you. Your personal data, though, is much more actionable from his POV.
      - bduerst 11y ago
        Yes, because I was implying Trump would nuke the U.S. /s You have only to listen to his rhetoric on foreign policy to connect the dots about how giving him power is potentially harmful to the U.S. Unless you think he's going to try to sell everyone steaks and golf course timeshares as the POTUS, then I'm worried.
- AnonymousPlanet 11y ago
  I will answer you with a lengthy anecdote. A couple of years ago I wanted to buy something from a popular online shop. The shop offered various payment options. I won't bother with details, so let's make it simple: option A was no risk on their side but time consuming, while B was higher risk but fast procedure. I was time pressed, so I was happy to see B in their FAQ. After signup and checkout there was no option B for payment. I thought it was a bug in their site and sent them an email. I then decided to have it shipped directly to my parents (I wanted to use the item over the holidays) and set up an account in their name. After checkout, option B was suddenly available. Yay, they fixed it. I made the order. Back to my account: option B was still missing. Huh. I then made several new accounts using various addresses over the city. The pattern that emerged was that in more affluent zip codes option B was available, in poorer parts it wasn't. Several days later, my email was answered: they claimed not to offer B to any new accounts on principle. This clearly wasn't the case. My sample set wasn't big, and maybe it was a bug or A/B testing plus coincidence, but it made me think. Big brother will not kill you or bite you with big fanfare. Instead, you will be struck by inconveniences. Online shopping will be more pleasant for some and maybe even impossible for others. That flashy item you want will be available for others but you will be told that it's out of stock. All of this will be explained away as mistakes.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    > Big brother will not kill you or bite you with big fanfare. Instead, you will be struck by inconveniences. Online shopping will be more pleasant for some and maybe even impossible for others. That flashy item you want will be available for others but you will be told that it's out of stock. All of this will be explained away as mistakes. A boring dystopia? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10787650 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10787650
    - AnonymousPlanet 11y ago
      It is not enough for a cyberpunk action movie. The consequences for society are chilling, however. Picture a society in which everyone has even more reason to behave and live in a certain way just so they don't get misjudged by some algorithm.
- Nadya 11y ago
  >I've heard the big-brother nightmare scenario type answers before, but I'm curious to see how they are more likely to negatively affect me than a car accident or slipping in the shower. You aren't until you are at which point it is too late. "First they came for..." yatta yatta. Power is often only given in small, seemingly harmless chunks. When someone tries to take too much power - people take notice and prevent it because they know what others often do with too much power. The problem as I see it is that too few people notice the small chips and blocks of power they willingly give away until they realize they've given away too much and no longer hold the majority of the power. Only then do they see the foolishness in what they have done, but by then it is already too late: they are powerless.
teaneedz 11y ago
Find an alternative to ad-supported business models maybe. Isn't much of this data used by/for the advertising industry?
- gertef 11y ago
  You mean, create an alternative to broadcast, mail, and free services, and migrate the entire world off of it?
9248 11y ago
Not accept, but adapt and learn to live with it. I'm saying this because I don't see any solution. Our data can be sold. Our data can be 'shared' by our less educated friends,etc. Our data can be 'leaked' through all kinds of breaches/hacks/etc from both private companies or even governmental(incompetence, old software). Treat our public records as public, as an interface to the outer word. Why do we think that our names, emails, phone numbers or addresses are private? What's the point of them being private?
- choosername 11y ago
  Avoiding abuse, that's the point, obviously. There is sensitive data very susceptible to abbuse, because their privacy is crucial to many privacy schemes, but not well protected.
p4wnc6 11y ago
It's not a dichotomy between being able to do something about it vs. not getting utility from privacy. Privacy is extremely important. We get lots of utility from privacy and in fact require it to reach states of adequate mental and physical health. But people with guns and money can prevent us from having it, despite how much utility it is, despite that it is considered a basic right, and regardless of whether we want to change it.
- state 11y ago
  That's an interesting way to think about it. It's true that in our daily lives we absolutely depend on privacy and are aware of it being compromised. Perhaps therein lies the real problem: for the most part these oversteps are barely noticeable. 'Doing something' amounts to a kind of activism. I can accept that as the necessary course of action at this point in time. Working for the right to privacy in the future could be analogous to protecting natural resources.
bigiain 11y ago
Pay cash. Use anonymous prepaid credit/gift cards (bought with cash) online. Delete your cookies, Browse in incognito. Disable Javascript. Block ads. Don't install the social media app (and if you do, definitely don't give LinkedIn/Facebook/whoever unfettered access to your contact lists and email accounts!). Use the mobile website (in mobile Chrome, in incognito. Yeah, you'll have to log in more often...) "Dress up. Leave a false name. Be legendary. The best PT is against the law, but don't get caught. Art as crime; crime as art." - Hakim Bey, "Poetic Terrorism", T.A.Z, 1991
- amelius 11y ago
  Inject noise into your corner of the internet. Or pay somebody to do it for you.

by state 11y ago

bduerst 11y ago

This isn't a popular question, but is there really a problem? I've heard the big-brother nightmare scenario type answers before, but I'm curious to see how they are more likely to negatively affect me than a car accident or slipping in the shower. Even with government agencies (NSA/FBI) overstepping or trying to overstep their limits, isn't the root problem with policy makers keeping them in line?

astazangasta 11y ago
We're possibly months away from a Trump presidency, and you're not worried that this sort of power exists in the world? Trump aside, the general trend is increasingly fascist. Maybe you're safely ensconced in the glitterati, but I am a known leftist with brown skin; I'm going to worry.
- bduerst 11y ago
  Come on, even this nightmare scenario isn't that nightmarish. The POTUS commands the nuclear arsenal, which is arguably more powerful than knowing my shopping habits.
  - majewsky 11y ago
    Depends. The POTUS is not likely to use the nuclear arsenal against you. Your personal data, though, is much more actionable from his POV.
    - bduerst 11y ago
      Yes, because I was implying Trump would nuke the U.S. /s You have only to listen to his rhetoric on foreign policy to connect the dots about how giving him power is potentially harmful to the U.S. Unless you think he's going to try to sell everyone steaks and golf course timeshares as the POTUS, then I'm worried.
AnonymousPlanet 11y ago
I will answer you with a lengthy anecdote. A couple of years ago I wanted to buy something from a popular online shop. The shop offered various payment options. I won't bother with details, so let's make it simple: option A was no risk on their side but time consuming, while B was higher risk but fast procedure. I was time pressed, so I was happy to see B in their FAQ. After signup and checkout there was no option B for payment. I thought it was a bug in their site and sent them an email. I then decided to have it shipped directly to my parents (I wanted to use the item over the holidays) and set up an account in their name. After checkout, option B was suddenly available. Yay, they fixed it. I made the order. Back to my account: option B was still missing. Huh. I then made several new accounts using various addresses over the city. The pattern that emerged was that in more affluent zip codes option B was available, in poorer parts it wasn't. Several days later, my email was answered: they claimed not to offer B to any new accounts on principle. This clearly wasn't the case. My sample set wasn't big, and maybe it was a bug or A/B testing plus coincidence, but it made me think. Big brother will not kill you or bite you with big fanfare. Instead, you will be struck by inconveniences. Online shopping will be more pleasant for some and maybe even impossible for others. That flashy item you want will be available for others but you will be told that it's out of stock. All of this will be explained away as mistakes.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > Big brother will not kill you or bite you with big fanfare. Instead, you will be struck by inconveniences. Online shopping will be more pleasant for some and maybe even impossible for others. That flashy item you want will be available for others but you will be told that it's out of stock. All of this will be explained away as mistakes. A boring dystopia? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10787650 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10787650
  - AnonymousPlanet 11y ago
    It is not enough for a cyberpunk action movie. The consequences for society are chilling, however. Picture a society in which everyone has even more reason to behave and live in a certain way just so they don't get misjudged by some algorithm.
Nadya 11y ago
>I've heard the big-brother nightmare scenario type answers before, but I'm curious to see how they are more likely to negatively affect me than a car accident or slipping in the shower. You aren't until you are at which point it is too late. "First they came for..." yatta yatta. Power is often only given in small, seemingly harmless chunks. When someone tries to take too much power - people take notice and prevent it because they know what others often do with too much power. The problem as I see it is that too few people notice the small chips and blocks of power they willingly give away until they realize they've given away too much and no longer hold the majority of the power. Only then do they see the foolishness in what they have done, but by then it is already too late: they are powerless.

teaneedz 11y ago

Find an alternative to ad-supported business models maybe. Isn't much of this data used by/for the advertising industry?

gertef 11y ago
You mean, create an alternative to broadcast, mail, and free services, and migrate the entire world off of it?

9248 11y ago

Not accept, but adapt and learn to live with it. I'm saying this because I don't see any solution. Our data can be sold. Our data can be 'shared' by our less educated friends,etc. Our data can be 'leaked' through all kinds of breaches/hacks/etc from both private companies or even governmental(incompetence, old software). Treat our public records as public, as an interface to the outer word. Why do we think that our names, emails, phone numbers or addresses are private? What's the point of them being private?

choosername 11y ago
Avoiding abuse, that's the point, obviously. There is sensitive data very susceptible to abbuse, because their privacy is crucial to many privacy schemes, but not well protected.

p4wnc6 11y ago

It's not a dichotomy between being able to do something about it vs. not getting utility from privacy. Privacy is extremely important. We get lots of utility from privacy and in fact require it to reach states of adequate mental and physical health. But people with guns and money can prevent us from having it, despite how much utility it is, despite that it is considered a basic right, and regardless of whether we want to change it.

state 11y ago
That's an interesting way to think about it. It's true that in our daily lives we absolutely depend on privacy and are aware of it being compromised. Perhaps therein lies the real problem: for the most part these oversteps are barely noticeable. 'Doing something' amounts to a kind of activism. I can accept that as the necessary course of action at this point in time. Working for the right to privacy in the future could be analogous to protecting natural resources.

bigiain 11y ago

Pay cash. Use anonymous prepaid credit/gift cards (bought with cash) online. Delete your cookies, Browse in incognito. Disable Javascript. Block ads. Don't install the social media app (and if you do, definitely don't give LinkedIn/Facebook/whoever unfettered access to your contact lists and email accounts!). Use the mobile website (in mobile Chrome, in incognito. Yeah, you'll have to log in more often...) "Dress up. Leave a false name. Be legendary. The best PT is against the law, but don't get caught. Art as crime; crime as art." - Hakim Bey, "Poetic Terrorism", T.A.Z, 1991

amelius 11y ago
Inject noise into your corner of the internet. Or pay somebody to do it for you.