12 ms·

Emac’s Org Mode will improve your software engineering

210 points by rohankshir 11y ago

hashkb 11y ago
I spent a few months on emacs, mostly so I could experience the magic of org. I didn't get it. It's a super powerful outliner with scripting... Through that experience I rediscovered pen and paper, actually. No scripting, but I can write sideways and sketch things. A pocket sized notebook was the answer for me.
- ciroduran 11y ago
  The nature of the tool differs, but it's definitely a good idea to carry around something to put down your ideas and organise them, it doesn't matter if it's not Org mode.
- kleiba 11y ago
  > I didn't get it. It's a super powerful outliner with scripting... At its very heart, yes. And that alone is cool, I think (the scripting part). But it's also a lot more: org-mode supports a simple form of task management (TODOs, Agenda views,...), it has a built-in spreadsheet editor (with formula support, all in ASCII), you can export contents to various backends (HTML, Beamer, ...) -- it really is a beast!
  - cyphar 11y ago
    Pencil and paper is much better for me for making quick notes to be honest. I actually don't like writing my brain dumps on a computer because it makes it harder for me to think about them. I find that physically using a pencil helps me develop my ideas more because I have to reiterate what I'm writing while writing it. It's definitely a personal preference, maybe it comes from the fact that I always draw things on paper when designing them and always do working out for Physics and Maths problems on paper. When I go to write it in a file, it always feels more official and like a proper document than just scribbles.
    - xerophyte12932 11y ago
      Personally, if I am dumping thoughts out, keyboard and screen works well, especially if it's text heavy and long (like a blog post or story chapter). On the other hand, if am trying to understand something, I prefer a pencil and paper and writing it down and perhaps drawing things makes me understand it better.
      - cyphar 11y ago
        I guess it depends on what /kind/ of brain dump it is. I usually like writing up blog posts on a computer too. But for jotting down "things I did today" and "list of things to do tomorrow", it feels much more natural to write it down. But that's probably my research student genes coming out (my supervisors gave me a book on my first day and said "WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN" -- and I guess it's stuck with me for the past year or two).
    - pmoriarty 11y ago
      The problems with paper notes are poor searchability, linking, extracting/copying of data, and portability. But yes, there are advantages to paper, like the ability to easily draw diagrams and link ideas with arrows, etc. On the other hand, if you need that, you could always use something like a Wacom tablet, or maybe some other touch-screen device with a stylus. That would give you the best of both worlds.
      - mbrock 11y ago
        Or the worst of both worlds?
      - desipenguin 11y ago
        Wacom tablet/touch screen+stylus have same problem of poor searchability. (Assuming that you are suggesting "drawing" digitially, as opposed to on paper) Are there tools that will let the user search "hand drawn" digital image ? One can always use tag like system, which one can't with paper, but then it is extra work, and adding "text" tags is easier when using something like org-mode, or just plain text.
  - Derbasti 11y ago
    Also, time tracking and reference management, and calendar integration.
- sndean 11y ago
  I'm currently using both org-mode and a stack of index cards. I use Emacs a lot, so that could be why I'm sticking with it. org-mode is now solely for note taking. At least for me, it's hard to beat physically crossing something out (or tearing a card in half) after finishing something on my to-do list.
  - hashkb 11y ago
    Right? I don't have any science, but I'd wager the amount of dopamine released by crossing out a line on paper is significantly greater than hitting `t` (right?) in org.
- berntb 11y ago
  I was an Emacs user that read about Org Mode, then started using it. After a few days of memorizing commands and learning -- my reaction was "WTF, I could have gotten 90% of the functionality I use from a (web) GUI app with 15 minutes of learning?!" A bit later I realized that Org Mode have two advantages and still use it: - It is always here, integrated with my development enviroment. With everything I need. (And if not, I can extend it.) - Just using the keyboard in an editing environment I was used to, instead of a GUI, made the app "disappear" from a cognitive load perspective. Org Mode is like paper + pen for me in the way. I just use it naturally, with a minimal effect on my concentration.
themodelplumber 11y ago
I like this. Not because I use this process or even Emacs, but because it focuses on the center of the issue: Bringing your full mind to bear on the object at hand. If there's anything that will de-stress a frustrated hacker, it's that sort of directed, decisive action toward the best perceivable outcome. Often you don't even have to save your notes file if you are just using this as a method to defeat procrastination or build up momentum for a busy day. Many of mine don't survive the day and that's fine.
escherize 11y ago
I'm pretty into org-mode. I got started from this article by Sacha Chua[1]. Her note taking style helped me learn faster. (This post was written in emacs.) [1] - http://sachachua.com/blog/2014/01/tips-learning-org-mode-emacs/ http://sachachua.com/blog/2014/01/tips-learning-org-mode-ema...
laughinghan 11y ago
Do people here have opinions on Workflowy? https://workflowy.com/ https://workflowy.com/ As a Vim adherent, I never really got into Org-Mode, but from what I've seen from my Emacs friends, Workflowy seems kinda like Org-Mode Online, but with additional features like being able to share a sublist as a URL (which was noted in this blogpost as a weakness of Org-Mode: "The caveat here is that it’s mostly a one man show."). I use it very much like this blogpost describes, to quickly jot-down and organize thoughts, then later reorganize them, update them, or archive them.
- fsiefken 11y ago
  Have you tried evil mode with vi bindings? The good thing of org-mode is that it runs locally and through ssh, but any task outliner tool is useful to organize thoughts or tasks.
  - ascagnel_ 11y ago
    evil mode is pretty good, but I find that there's a few rough edges. Also, I can't find a good type-ahead search plugin for picking files like in TextMate, Sublime Text, or (my current preferred tool) the Ctrl-P plugin for Vim [0]. [0] https://github.com/ctrlpvim/ctrlp.vim https://github.com/ctrlpvim/ctrlp.vim
    - Scarbutt 11y ago
      You didn't search hard enough ;) Really, Ctrl-P is joke to anything compared available in Emacs.
      - robertcarter 11y ago
        Can you provide some examples and/or the name of the packages etc. I've just started emacs and the way I use dired mode is too slow. In terminal I have a bunch of aliases for fast navigation. How do you do this in emacs?
        11y ago
shadeless 11y ago
This has also been my experience, journaling helps a lot both while working on something and when getting back to it, especially after a longer period of time. I found this discussion interesting too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9895713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9895713
cdelsolar 11y ago
What is Emac?
- uulbiy 11y ago
  Someone should just edit the title. It's not "emac's" it's "emacs"! The name was originally derived from "Editor MACroS". Here is the wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs
- vog 11y ago
  Indeed. Even though the HN guidelines say that the original title should be kept - it should still be acceptable to fix (non-intentional) typos.
- mafuyu 11y ago
  It's a bit like Vi.
  - insulanian 11y ago
    Oh no... you didn't... Guys, he's starting a war here :-P
  - base698 11y ago
    It's really not at all like vi.
    - mafuyu 11y ago
      It was a dumb pun on the last letter of "emacs" being left off. :P
tunesmith 11y ago
I don't know why so many people make the point that hierarchical structures are how the brain works. Graphical structures are how the brain works. The hierarchical structure is how the physical world works (you can't put the same shirt in two closets), and we have an unfortunate habit of trying to force our brain to work the same way, but it's an impedance mismatch. Unless I'm the only one that is frustrated that you never know where to find vegetable oil in the grocery store. Is it in the cooking aisle near the flour, or the condiments aisle near the vinegar? Seems like every store chooses differently since it doesn't make sense for them to put it in both places.
- duaneb 11y ago
  I believe gestalt theory disagrees with you.
- Toenex 11y ago
  Yes I tend to agree. I still see people at work hunting for the correct folder to store email. Showing them how to use labels (in whatever client they are using) is often something of a revelation. Seeing the freedom you have just handed them can be quite surprising as well as a great way to get a free pint! I'm a avid command-line and vim user and for a long time made use of text based todo and note taking tools. Whilst my naming schemes and structures always made perfectly logical sense, they never flowed when in use. After many years I concluded that I needed something more than just a river of text and started using tools like Trello and Todoist. Whilst my inner nerd feels like I have failed the command-line in some way, I'm really getting much more out of my tools than I have to put in.
  - cel1ne 11y ago
    Central todo-systems never worked for me. I use a combination of calendar entries, mails in my inbox, reminders, post-its, physical notes and text-files. I'm not a chaotic person, mind you, i just feel that forcing every task into the same shape (a line of text) tend to distort real priorities.
    - 11y ago
kchoudhu 11y ago
I finally got GTD implemented in OneNote. Now you're telling me I now need to move on to Emacs org mode? God, it's like trying to choose a Javascript framework.
- js8 11y ago
  Emacs org-mode will be there long after OneNote is gone. And the format is all text. It's a life-long investment.
  - kchoudhu 11y ago
    Honestly, I'm working on reducing my dependence on computers/pen/pencil/whatever for todo lists and organization. I try and keep it all in my head -- if I can't, that usually means I'm biting off way more than I can chew.
    - ruraljuror 11y ago
      I am all for whatever works for you, but GTD and some other psychology texts make an argument against this: that writing things down allows you to release them from your memory and thus focus more clearly, which GTD refers to as a mind like water.
  - CJefferson 11y ago
    There are already (to me) very useful places where I can get OneNote where I can't get emacs -- Android and iOS. I don't expect to ever see Emacs on iOS, and I tried it on android but it doesn't work well at all. Not sure why you think emacs org-mode will be around forever. While I'm sure emacs will be around forever, I've had vim (not emacs, I don't use it I will admit) extensions which rotted as new versions of vim came out.
    - jbmorgado 11y ago
      Not Emacs but Org-mode. There is http://www.orgzly.com/ http://www.orgzly.com/ for Android. not sure about iOS.
eng_monkey 11y ago
> your software engineering What does this mean?
duncan_bayne 11y ago
Very happy org-mode user here. Two things that are worth mentioning: + org-present, which lets you write presentations as org files + Orgzly, which gives you a great interface to search, create and edit org-mode files on your Android device
wowtip 11y ago
Surprised he did not mention org-capture for this use. http://orgmode.org/manual/Capture.html#Capture http://orgmode.org/manual/Capture.html#Capture
anentropic 11y ago
I doubt it
melling 11y ago
You can use Github to use create org files. I have several repos of org files: https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes https://github.com/melling/ComputerLanguages https://github.com/melling/ComputerLanguages https://github.com/melling/MathAndScienceNotes https://github.com/melling/MathAndScienceNotes https://github.com/melling/ios_topics https://github.com/melling/ios_topics
matwood 11y ago
I think the main takeaway here is not that org mode will make you more productive, but that taking notes will. I have tried many programs including org mode, and found that OneNote works best for me. It is stored in the cloud so always available, has native clients for mobile, and a web client. It does impose a bit of structure which some people may or may not like.
drstrangevibes 11y ago
"It will never be a replacement for Atlassian’s or Asana’s project management software. A Story or Epic on JIRA could be one of the final outputs of your note-taking and planning using Emacs Org-mode." I've recently started to use org-jira for keeping notes, its old and a bit clunky but it s a nice way of keeping notes, keeping jira upto date and avoiding clunk. Highly recommend DrS
rogeryu 11y ago
I use my own wiki for everything I want to remember, and have used it as a GTD method. But in the end I moved away for GTD stuff. I used Chandler, and really liked it, but then it was abandoned. Then I used Quickfox Notes in Firefox to make a simple plaintext todo list. That works OK til now. Lately I've been using Evernote more and more, and now I mix them all more or less. I've tried Emacs, tried the Eclipse todo, but neither caught on with me. I hear great things about Emacs and about Vim, and although I use Vim a lot to edit files on the server, I keep having difficulties changing to either of them for development. Maybe it's a matter of time.
- MollyR 11y ago
  I had a similar issue has well. I ended up in Onenote for years, and honestly I had no real issue. . . until my move to linux mint. Now I'm using raw text for the time being.
  - groovy2shoes 11y ago
    The webapp version of OneNote works pretty well. I use it on Linux with no troubles. https://www.onenote.com/hrd https://www.onenote.com/hrd
klog 11y ago
*Emacs's
klog 11y ago
*Emacs's
falcolas 11y ago
So this boils down to take notes, add do/done flags for items. OSX' Notes app can do the same thing... Not to downplay org mode's usefulness, but this isn't really a post about org mode, just some general note taking strategies.
pjkundert 11y ago
I built a system to generate SVG burn down charts from Org Mode task lists stored in Git (for historical project data): https://github.com/pjkundert/burndown https://github.com/pjkundert/burndown It was somewhat useful, but requires regular updates of project status to be checked in; somethings I found challenging to remember to do.
julienchastang 11y ago
What this story and many of the comments herein miss is that org-mode coupled with org-babel is a full-fledged multilanguage literate programming environment. When you have access to the shell, Python (w/ matplotlib for graphs), Clojure, R, etc. right in your org buffer, and can interact between them (and even pass data between cells of different languages), you really do have what Ken Iverson (inventor of APL, Turing award winner) called a “Tool for thought”. This prose first style of programming where text is punctuated by code (instead of the other way around) is excellent for your own thought process, exposition (via Latex, MD, HTML, text export) as well as taking notes. The only downside to org is that it is intimately tied to emacs, so if you don’t like emacs (lisp) you won’t want to use org. And one more thing, the hierarchical folding in org is second to none. That should be a simple matter, but no other environment/editor handles that feature like org.
- hsitz 11y ago
  I agree, Babel is often overlooked subset of orgmode's features. The linked article that's spawning these comments doesn't do an especially good job of explaining why a developer would should want to use orgmode. Common problem, though, orgmode is far more than an outliner tool, a lot of what it does is truly mindblowing. Orgmode has so many features, and there are so many ways to combine them, that it's really hard to get a grasp on everything it can do. It is certainly not just an outlining tool restricted to working with strict hierarchies. E.g., searches can be done within a file -- or throughout hundreds of files -- which will then assemble all responsive headings (i.e., all connected items) in the Agenda buffer (which is, in a sense, virtual, since it doesn't represent any file or document at all; it temporarily collects items from different files). Many org-mode users "live" in their Agenda buffer. The Agenda buffer isn't technically "graphical", but in many ways it's better and more powerful than a graphical solution because the relevant, connected items all then appear as items in a single buffer, no need to follow lines on a picture connecting sometimes far-away items in a complex, confusing graphical representation. There's so much more it's hard to know even where to begin. For programmers, learning more about org-babel is definitely a good place to start.
  - grayje 11y ago
lcall 11y ago
Others here have described really well the defects in most products for information managers, knowledge managers, note-takers, etc etc. I created OneModel (http://onemodel.org http://onemodel.org), as an org-mode alternative. (Really, an everything-else alternative.) Free (AGPL), and contributors welcome. Especially feedback! It has many advantages over emacs org-mode (details in the FAQs, but e.g. the speed of navigation, ease of learning, and flexibility). Vision, in buzzwords: outlines + mind mapping + evernote + wikipedia + knowledge management + spreadsheets/apps + PIM, you decide what to share or import. It lets you organize arbitrary knowledge in a structure that makes sense to you, based on how you think. It is meant to be very easy to learn. It is (so far) text- and keyboard-only, since everything you need to know at any given time is on the screen. It is highly efficient to navigate. For "what it is today" with details, & links to more about the future: http://www.onemodel.org/1/e-9223372036854622523.html http://www.onemodel.org/1/e-9223372036854622523.html
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
LVB 11y ago
The biggest issue I had with org-mode was the sad state of mobile clients. They were all convoluted to set up and, once working, didn't work very well [1]. The experience was much worse that what I've become accustomed to with Todoist, Nirvana, etc. where mobile sync is pretty seamless. Org certainly is interesting and ticks the main boxes for me: outliner/TODO system, open source, text file, etc. With a better mobile solution available, I could definitely see myself using org-mode as my primary organization system. [1] To be fair, this was under Android. I've not rerun the experiment using iOS, but I'm seeing one MobileOrg app in the store, last updated in 2013, with the most recent comments citing issues similar to what I experienced.
- randomstring 11y ago
  MobileOrg on iOS is unusable. I got it working, however you cannot edit or add to your org files from your phone. You can only view them. That makes the app useless in my book.
- zeveb 11y ago
  There's Orgzly. I only just downloaded it today though.
- glynsync 11y ago
  http://www.orgzly.com/ http://www.orgzly.com/ isn't quite there yet (no automated sync yet), but is a vast improvement over MobileOrg for Android
jxy 11y ago
This title really puts me off. I can't find a conceivable reason for anyone who actually uses Org Mode to write it as "Emac's Org Mode". Another reason to never go to this particular website I guess.
Delmania 11y ago
A key point to this article is that the author does his development work in Emacs, so for him, taking notes doesn't require him to switch or launch a new application. As a lowly Windows developer, I struggle to make use of any note taking application outside of a sheet of paper. I'm sure a tool like OrgMode, Zim, or OneNote would help me organize my life, but as soon as I try to do this, I simply ask myself, why not just simplify?
- Splines 11y ago
  I use OneNote on a daily basis and really like it. Mostly just an easy way to write down text with simple markup. Tables work well and you can add checkboxes if you want. OneNote's search is IMO it's killer feature. After you've built up a sizable amount of content you're going to start to need to search for stuff and it's pretty much instantaneous. Also returns results for pictures too (using OCR).
  - groovy2shoes 11y ago
    I use a Windows Phone which came with OneNote. It automatically syncs between my phone and my desktop. It's really nice when I'm out on the town and have an idea or something I want to jot down.
grandalf 11y ago
I use this exact process only without any special mode in emacs. I do not mark items complete I just remove them when they are no longer relevant. When something important comes up it goes to the top and often when I am finished with it a lot of the stuff below it can be deleted too.
norswap 11y ago
I kind of agree. But I just use plain text files with bullets. I haven't seen a compelling argument to justify learning all the concepts and keystrokes of org-mode. I don't need all the bell and whistles. Export to HTML? Why?
- Jtsummers 11y ago
  If you're already an emacs user (is it supported in other editors?) you can start here and grow as you need it. At least, that's how I've done it. Started with bulleted lists (folding was convenient and really all I made use of). Then expanded to linking within a document and to other documents. My .emacs file auto-loads an index.org file for me, this has links to numerous other documents. Some are little more than scratchpads, one is a list of PDFs. Some of those have become links to org files that link to the pdf and I have notes/annotations in the org file. It's my own wiki. Export to HTML was useful a couple times, but not something I've used much of. I generated some code samples and used org-babel mode. The HTML view was nice enough to share out to other people. I'm still barely using any of its features. The compelling thing for me is that when I've wanted a new feature, it was already there 9 times out of 10.
- hsitz 11y ago
  If all you're doing now is plain text with bullets there may be nothing to gain. If, however, you have main bullet items that then have subitems, you'd gain the advantage of "collapsing" items (what in some coding environments is called "folding"). To get this benefit all you'd need to do is open a blank text file with '.org' suffix, then instead of bullets use an asterisk. Put one asterisk in front of main bullets, two asterisks in front of subitems. Then use <tab> key to expand or collapse subitems of current bullet item. Or <shift-tab> to expand or collapse subitems throughout the document. That's all you need to get started using org-mode productively.
justin_vanw 11y ago
Should be Emacs', not Emac's

210 points by rohankshir 11y ago

I spent a few months on emacs, mostly so I could experience the magic of org. I didn't get it. It's a super powerful outliner with scripting... Through that experience I rediscovered pen and paper, actually. No scripting, but I can write sideways and sketch things. A pocket sized notebook was the answer for me.

ciroduran 11y ago
The nature of the tool differs, but it's definitely a good idea to carry around something to put down your ideas and organise them, it doesn't matter if it's not Org mode.
kleiba 11y ago
> I didn't get it. It's a super powerful outliner with scripting... At its very heart, yes. And that alone is cool, I think (the scripting part). But it's also a lot more: org-mode supports a simple form of task management (TODOs, Agenda views,...), it has a built-in spreadsheet editor (with formula support, all in ASCII), you can export contents to various backends (HTML, Beamer, ...) -- it really is a beast!
- cyphar 11y ago
  Pencil and paper is much better for me for making quick notes to be honest. I actually don't like writing my brain dumps on a computer because it makes it harder for me to think about them. I find that physically using a pencil helps me develop my ideas more because I have to reiterate what I'm writing while writing it. It's definitely a personal preference, maybe it comes from the fact that I always draw things on paper when designing them and always do working out for Physics and Maths problems on paper. When I go to write it in a file, it always feels more official and like a proper document than just scribbles.
  - xerophyte12932 11y ago
    Personally, if I am dumping thoughts out, keyboard and screen works well, especially if it's text heavy and long (like a blog post or story chapter). On the other hand, if am trying to understand something, I prefer a pencil and paper and writing it down and perhaps drawing things makes me understand it better.
    - cyphar 11y ago
      I guess it depends on what /kind/ of brain dump it is. I usually like writing up blog posts on a computer too. But for jotting down "things I did today" and "list of things to do tomorrow", it feels much more natural to write it down. But that's probably my research student genes coming out (my supervisors gave me a book on my first day and said "WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN" -- and I guess it's stuck with me for the past year or two).
  - pmoriarty 11y ago
    The problems with paper notes are poor searchability, linking, extracting/copying of data, and portability. But yes, there are advantages to paper, like the ability to easily draw diagrams and link ideas with arrows, etc. On the other hand, if you need that, you could always use something like a Wacom tablet, or maybe some other touch-screen device with a stylus. That would give you the best of both worlds.
    - mbrock 11y ago
      Or the worst of both worlds?
    - desipenguin 11y ago
      Wacom tablet/touch screen+stylus have same problem of poor searchability. (Assuming that you are suggesting "drawing" digitially, as opposed to on paper) Are there tools that will let the user search "hand drawn" digital image ? One can always use tag like system, which one can't with paper, but then it is extra work, and adding "text" tags is easier when using something like org-mode, or just plain text.
- Derbasti 11y ago
  Also, time tracking and reference management, and calendar integration.
sndean 11y ago
I'm currently using both org-mode and a stack of index cards. I use Emacs a lot, so that could be why I'm sticking with it. org-mode is now solely for note taking. At least for me, it's hard to beat physically crossing something out (or tearing a card in half) after finishing something on my to-do list.
- hashkb 11y ago
  Right? I don't have any science, but I'd wager the amount of dopamine released by crossing out a line on paper is significantly greater than hitting `t` (right?) in org.
berntb 11y ago
I was an Emacs user that read about Org Mode, then started using it. After a few days of memorizing commands and learning -- my reaction was "WTF, I could have gotten 90% of the functionality I use from a (web) GUI app with 15 minutes of learning?!" A bit later I realized that Org Mode have two advantages and still use it: - It is always here, integrated with my development enviroment. With everything I need. (And if not, I can extend it.) - Just using the keyboard in an editing environment I was used to, instead of a GUI, made the app "disappear" from a cognitive load perspective. Org Mode is like paper + pen for me in the way. I just use it naturally, with a minimal effect on my concentration.

themodelplumber 11y ago

I like this. Not because I use this process or even Emacs, but because it focuses on the center of the issue: Bringing your full mind to bear on the object at hand. If there's anything that will de-stress a frustrated hacker, it's that sort of directed, decisive action toward the best perceivable outcome. Often you don't even have to save your notes file if you are just using this as a method to defeat procrastination or build up momentum for a busy day. Many of mine don't survive the day and that's fine.

escherize 11y ago

I'm pretty into org-mode. I got started from this article by Sacha Chua[1]. Her note taking style helped me learn faster. (This post was written in emacs.) [1] - http://sachachua.com/blog/2014/01/tips-learning-org-mode-emacs/ http://sachachua.com/blog/2014/01/tips-learning-org-mode-ema...

laughinghan 11y ago

Do people here have opinions on Workflowy? https://workflowy.com/ https://workflowy.com/ As a Vim adherent, I never really got into Org-Mode, but from what I've seen from my Emacs friends, Workflowy seems kinda like Org-Mode Online, but with additional features like being able to share a sublist as a URL (which was noted in this blogpost as a weakness of Org-Mode: "The caveat here is that it’s mostly a one man show."). I use it very much like this blogpost describes, to quickly jot-down and organize thoughts, then later reorganize them, update them, or archive them.

fsiefken 11y ago
Have you tried evil mode with vi bindings? The good thing of org-mode is that it runs locally and through ssh, but any task outliner tool is useful to organize thoughts or tasks.
- ascagnel_ 11y ago
  evil mode is pretty good, but I find that there's a few rough edges. Also, I can't find a good type-ahead search plugin for picking files like in TextMate, Sublime Text, or (my current preferred tool) the Ctrl-P plugin for Vim [0]. [0] https://github.com/ctrlpvim/ctrlp.vim https://github.com/ctrlpvim/ctrlp.vim
  - Scarbutt 11y ago
    You didn't search hard enough ;) Really, Ctrl-P is joke to anything compared available in Emacs.
    - robertcarter 11y ago
      Can you provide some examples and/or the name of the packages etc. I've just started emacs and the way I use dired mode is too slow. In terminal I have a bunch of aliases for fast navigation. How do you do this in emacs?
      - 11y ago

shadeless 11y ago

This has also been my experience, journaling helps a lot both while working on something and when getting back to it, especially after a longer period of time. I found this discussion interesting too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9895713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9895713

cdelsolar 11y ago

What is Emac?

uulbiy 11y ago
Someone should just edit the title. It's not "emac's" it's "emacs"! The name was originally derived from "Editor MACroS". Here is the wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs
vog 11y ago
Indeed. Even though the HN guidelines say that the original title should be kept - it should still be acceptable to fix (non-intentional) typos.
mafuyu 11y ago
It's a bit like Vi.
- insulanian 11y ago
  Oh no... you didn't... Guys, he's starting a war here :-P
- base698 11y ago
  It's really not at all like vi.
  - mafuyu 11y ago
    It was a dumb pun on the last letter of "emacs" being left off. :P

tunesmith 11y ago

I don't know why so many people make the point that hierarchical structures are how the brain works. Graphical structures are how the brain works. The hierarchical structure is how the physical world works (you can't put the same shirt in two closets), and we have an unfortunate habit of trying to force our brain to work the same way, but it's an impedance mismatch. Unless I'm the only one that is frustrated that you never know where to find vegetable oil in the grocery store. Is it in the cooking aisle near the flour, or the condiments aisle near the vinegar? Seems like every store chooses differently since it doesn't make sense for them to put it in both places.

duaneb 11y ago
I believe gestalt theory disagrees with you.
Toenex 11y ago
Yes I tend to agree. I still see people at work hunting for the correct folder to store email. Showing them how to use labels (in whatever client they are using) is often something of a revelation. Seeing the freedom you have just handed them can be quite surprising as well as a great way to get a free pint! I'm a avid command-line and vim user and for a long time made use of text based todo and note taking tools. Whilst my naming schemes and structures always made perfectly logical sense, they never flowed when in use. After many years I concluded that I needed something more than just a river of text and started using tools like Trello and Todoist. Whilst my inner nerd feels like I have failed the command-line in some way, I'm really getting much more out of my tools than I have to put in.
- cel1ne 11y ago
  Central todo-systems never worked for me. I use a combination of calendar entries, mails in my inbox, reminders, post-its, physical notes and text-files. I'm not a chaotic person, mind you, i just feel that forcing every task into the same shape (a line of text) tend to distort real priorities.
  - 11y ago

kchoudhu 11y ago

I finally got GTD implemented in OneNote. Now you're telling me I now need to move on to Emacs org mode? God, it's like trying to choose a Javascript framework.

js8 11y ago
Emacs org-mode will be there long after OneNote is gone. And the format is all text. It's a life-long investment.
- kchoudhu 11y ago
  Honestly, I'm working on reducing my dependence on computers/pen/pencil/whatever for todo lists and organization. I try and keep it all in my head -- if I can't, that usually means I'm biting off way more than I can chew.
  - ruraljuror 11y ago
    I am all for whatever works for you, but GTD and some other psychology texts make an argument against this: that writing things down allows you to release them from your memory and thus focus more clearly, which GTD refers to as a mind like water.
- CJefferson 11y ago
  There are already (to me) very useful places where I can get OneNote where I can't get emacs -- Android and iOS. I don't expect to ever see Emacs on iOS, and I tried it on android but it doesn't work well at all. Not sure why you think emacs org-mode will be around forever. While I'm sure emacs will be around forever, I've had vim (not emacs, I don't use it I will admit) extensions which rotted as new versions of vim came out.
  - jbmorgado 11y ago
    Not Emacs but Org-mode. There is http://www.orgzly.com/ http://www.orgzly.com/ for Android. not sure about iOS.

eng_monkey 11y ago

> your software engineering What does this mean?

duncan_bayne 11y ago

Very happy org-mode user here. Two things that are worth mentioning: + org-present, which lets you write presentations as org files + Orgzly, which gives you a great interface to search, create and edit org-mode files on your Android device

wowtip 11y ago

Surprised he did not mention org-capture for this use. http://orgmode.org/manual/Capture.html#Capture http://orgmode.org/manual/Capture.html#Capture

anentropic 11y ago

I doubt it

melling 11y ago

You can use Github to use create org files. I have several repos of org files: https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes https://github.com/melling/ComputerLanguages https://github.com/melling/ComputerLanguages https://github.com/melling/MathAndScienceNotes https://github.com/melling/MathAndScienceNotes https://github.com/melling/ios_topics https://github.com/melling/ios_topics

matwood 11y ago

I think the main takeaway here is not that org mode will make you more productive, but that taking notes will. I have tried many programs including org mode, and found that OneNote works best for me. It is stored in the cloud so always available, has native clients for mobile, and a web client. It does impose a bit of structure which some people may or may not like.

drstrangevibes 11y ago

"It will never be a replacement for Atlassian’s or Asana’s project management software. A Story or Epic on JIRA could be one of the final outputs of your note-taking and planning using Emacs Org-mode." I've recently started to use org-jira for keeping notes, its old and a bit clunky but it s a nice way of keeping notes, keeping jira upto date and avoiding clunk. Highly recommend DrS

rogeryu 11y ago

I use my own wiki for everything I want to remember, and have used it as a GTD method. But in the end I moved away for GTD stuff. I used Chandler, and really liked it, but then it was abandoned. Then I used Quickfox Notes in Firefox to make a simple plaintext todo list. That works OK til now. Lately I've been using Evernote more and more, and now I mix them all more or less. I've tried Emacs, tried the Eclipse todo, but neither caught on with me. I hear great things about Emacs and about Vim, and although I use Vim a lot to edit files on the server, I keep having difficulties changing to either of them for development. Maybe it's a matter of time.

MollyR 11y ago
I had a similar issue has well. I ended up in Onenote for years, and honestly I had no real issue. . . until my move to linux mint. Now I'm using raw text for the time being.
- groovy2shoes 11y ago
  The webapp version of OneNote works pretty well. I use it on Linux with no troubles. https://www.onenote.com/hrd https://www.onenote.com/hrd

klog 11y ago

*Emacs's

klog 11y ago

*Emacs's

falcolas 11y ago

So this boils down to take notes, add do/done flags for items. OSX' Notes app can do the same thing... Not to downplay org mode's usefulness, but this isn't really a post about org mode, just some general note taking strategies.

pjkundert 11y ago

I built a system to generate SVG burn down charts from Org Mode task lists stored in Git (for historical project data): https://github.com/pjkundert/burndown https://github.com/pjkundert/burndown It was somewhat useful, but requires regular updates of project status to be checked in; somethings I found challenging to remember to do.

julienchastang 11y ago

What this story and many of the comments herein miss is that org-mode coupled with org-babel is a full-fledged multilanguage literate programming environment. When you have access to the shell, Python (w/ matplotlib for graphs), Clojure, R, etc. right in your org buffer, and can interact between them (and even pass data between cells of different languages), you really do have what Ken Iverson (inventor of APL, Turing award winner) called a “Tool for thought”. This prose first style of programming where text is punctuated by code (instead of the other way around) is excellent for your own thought process, exposition (via Latex, MD, HTML, text export) as well as taking notes. The only downside to org is that it is intimately tied to emacs, so if you don’t like emacs (lisp) you won’t want to use org. And one more thing, the hierarchical folding in org is second to none. That should be a simple matter, but no other environment/editor handles that feature like org.

hsitz 11y ago
I agree, Babel is often overlooked subset of orgmode's features. The linked article that's spawning these comments doesn't do an especially good job of explaining why a developer would should want to use orgmode. Common problem, though, orgmode is far more than an outliner tool, a lot of what it does is truly mindblowing. Orgmode has so many features, and there are so many ways to combine them, that it's really hard to get a grasp on everything it can do. It is certainly not just an outlining tool restricted to working with strict hierarchies. E.g., searches can be done within a file -- or throughout hundreds of files -- which will then assemble all responsive headings (i.e., all connected items) in the Agenda buffer (which is, in a sense, virtual, since it doesn't represent any file or document at all; it temporarily collects items from different files). Many org-mode users "live" in their Agenda buffer. The Agenda buffer isn't technically "graphical", but in many ways it's better and more powerful than a graphical solution because the relevant, connected items all then appear as items in a single buffer, no need to follow lines on a picture connecting sometimes far-away items in a complex, confusing graphical representation. There's so much more it's hard to know even where to begin. For programmers, learning more about org-babel is definitely a good place to start.
- grayje 11y ago

lcall 11y ago

Others here have described really well the defects in most products for information managers, knowledge managers, note-takers, etc etc. I created OneModel (http://onemodel.org http://onemodel.org), as an org-mode alternative. (Really, an everything-else alternative.) Free (AGPL), and contributors welcome. Especially feedback! It has many advantages over emacs org-mode (details in the FAQs, but e.g. the speed of navigation, ease of learning, and flexibility). Vision, in buzzwords: outlines + mind mapping + evernote + wikipedia + knowledge management + spreadsheets/apps + PIM, you decide what to share or import. It lets you organize arbitrary knowledge in a structure that makes sense to you, based on how you think. It is meant to be very easy to learn. It is (so far) text- and keyboard-only, since everything you need to know at any given time is on the screen. It is highly efficient to navigate. For "what it is today" with details, & links to more about the future: http://www.onemodel.org/1/e-9223372036854622523.html http://www.onemodel.org/1/e-9223372036854622523.html

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

LVB 11y ago

The biggest issue I had with org-mode was the sad state of mobile clients. They were all convoluted to set up and, once working, didn't work very well [1]. The experience was much worse that what I've become accustomed to with Todoist, Nirvana, etc. where mobile sync is pretty seamless. Org certainly is interesting and ticks the main boxes for me: outliner/TODO system, open source, text file, etc. With a better mobile solution available, I could definitely see myself using org-mode as my primary organization system. [1] To be fair, this was under Android. I've not rerun the experiment using iOS, but I'm seeing one MobileOrg app in the store, last updated in 2013, with the most recent comments citing issues similar to what I experienced.

randomstring 11y ago
MobileOrg on iOS is unusable. I got it working, however you cannot edit or add to your org files from your phone. You can only view them. That makes the app useless in my book.
zeveb 11y ago
There's Orgzly. I only just downloaded it today though.
glynsync 11y ago
http://www.orgzly.com/ http://www.orgzly.com/ isn't quite there yet (no automated sync yet), but is a vast improvement over MobileOrg for Android

jxy 11y ago

This title really puts me off. I can't find a conceivable reason for anyone who actually uses Org Mode to write it as "Emac's Org Mode". Another reason to never go to this particular website I guess.

Delmania 11y ago

A key point to this article is that the author does his development work in Emacs, so for him, taking notes doesn't require him to switch or launch a new application. As a lowly Windows developer, I struggle to make use of any note taking application outside of a sheet of paper. I'm sure a tool like OrgMode, Zim, or OneNote would help me organize my life, but as soon as I try to do this, I simply ask myself, why not just simplify?

Splines 11y ago
I use OneNote on a daily basis and really like it. Mostly just an easy way to write down text with simple markup. Tables work well and you can add checkboxes if you want. OneNote's search is IMO it's killer feature. After you've built up a sizable amount of content you're going to start to need to search for stuff and it's pretty much instantaneous. Also returns results for pictures too (using OCR).
- groovy2shoes 11y ago
  I use a Windows Phone which came with OneNote. It automatically syncs between my phone and my desktop. It's really nice when I'm out on the town and have an idea or something I want to jot down.

grandalf 11y ago

I use this exact process only without any special mode in emacs. I do not mark items complete I just remove them when they are no longer relevant. When something important comes up it goes to the top and often when I am finished with it a lot of the stuff below it can be deleted too.

norswap 11y ago

I kind of agree. But I just use plain text files with bullets. I haven't seen a compelling argument to justify learning all the concepts and keystrokes of org-mode. I don't need all the bell and whistles. Export to HTML? Why?

Jtsummers 11y ago
If you're already an emacs user (is it supported in other editors?) you can start here and grow as you need it. At least, that's how I've done it. Started with bulleted lists (folding was convenient and really all I made use of). Then expanded to linking within a document and to other documents. My .emacs file auto-loads an index.org file for me, this has links to numerous other documents. Some are little more than scratchpads, one is a list of PDFs. Some of those have become links to org files that link to the pdf and I have notes/annotations in the org file. It's my own wiki. Export to HTML was useful a couple times, but not something I've used much of. I generated some code samples and used org-babel mode. The HTML view was nice enough to share out to other people. I'm still barely using any of its features. The compelling thing for me is that when I've wanted a new feature, it was already there 9 times out of 10.
hsitz 11y ago
If all you're doing now is plain text with bullets there may be nothing to gain. If, however, you have main bullet items that then have subitems, you'd gain the advantage of "collapsing" items (what in some coding environments is called "folding"). To get this benefit all you'd need to do is open a blank text file with '.org' suffix, then instead of bullets use an asterisk. Put one asterisk in front of main bullets, two asterisks in front of subitems. Then use <tab> key to expand or collapse subitems of current bullet item. Or <shift-tab> to expand or collapse subitems throughout the document. That's all you need to get started using org-mode productively.

justin_vanw 11y ago

Should be Emacs', not Emac's