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If Loretta Lynch were informed about how encryption works, she would not be pursuing this case. As it is, she does not understand that she is wasting the time

If Loretta Lynch were informed about how encryption works, she would not be pursuing this case. As it is, she does not understand that she is wasting the time of American government and people. She does not understand that even if the FBI can get into every Apple phone, criminals can simply choose another form of encryption software to accomplish means of hiding their communications. Assuming the FBI can force Apple to install a key logger to grant them access into encrypted apps, will the FBI then go after Samsung and HTC which are made outside the US? The whole thing is absurd and a waste of our time. The way in which the FBI is going about this is not going to get them what they want. I don't know how to get them what they want. That's their job to figure it out. But they should know better about encryption technology. Or someone should tell them. This has gone on too long.

duncan_bayne 11y ago
Assume she is informed. Assume she doesn't really care about the outcome of this case, but is after a particular precedent. At this point her actions become a lot easier to understand.
einarvollset 11y ago
I do not think you have actually read enough about this specific case. For example: the govt is not asking for "the FBI to get into every Apple phone". If you disagree with this assertion, please provide a link where govt is asking for that.
- Johnny555 11y ago
  Maybe not "every" phone, but "a lot" of phones: On Tuesday, Comey said the FBI is asking for access to that specific phone but understood the decision would set a precedent for similar cases. Asked how many iPhones the FBI would like Apple to unlock, Comey said he could not name a number but that there were "a lot" of phones that hold information needed for law enforcement investigations. http://www.reuters.com/article/apple-encryption-congress-comey-idUSL2N1691JX http://www.reuters.com/article/apple-encryption-congress-com...
  - einarvollset 11y ago
    Again, I don't think you've really read what the govt is asking: yes this would set the precedent for them to request via a valid search warrant and on a case by case basis to open maybe even "a lot" of phones. My point is - grabbing the master keys would give them access to all.
    - Johnny555 11y ago
      Once they set precedent to get Apple to provide them with the software they need, why do you think they won't later compel Apple to provide them with the keys to let them unlock any phone? Surely it's going to become a burden if the government has to go through Apple for every single unlock request - there may be thousands of them, so for convenience, why wouldn't they demand the software to do it themselves? It seems like gaining access to this dead guy's phone is not really what the FBI is after - they can already get his call records and SMS's from the carriers, there's not likely to be any actionable information left on the phone.
      - einarvollset 11y ago
        Yes, this sets the precedent that the govt may request, with a valid court order, to compel Apple to help grab information from a specific phone. The point I'm trying to make (repeatedly through this thread, which everyone seems to ignore) is that this is a pretty reasonable request. Notice that it becoming a burden for the govt to request this through Apple every time is in no way a reason why the govt would legally be allowed to "demand the software to do it themselves". In fact, as every single case would require a court order, the hassle of the court order is likely a magnitude greater than asking Apple to comply. For the govt to "demand the software to do it themselves" would be an entirely new court case. In fact, it is this very case that I do not want to see.
        matwood 11y ago
        > The point I'm trying to make (repeatedly through this thread, which everyone seems to ignore) is that this is a pretty reasonable request. So when Apple makes the iPhone 7 such that even Apple cannot unlock the phone what happens?
- studentrob 11y ago
  I've read everything about this case. The implication that this is just about one phone is what is so demonstrably false. And it is people like you who we must seek to inform. The FBI has hundreds, if not thousands of iPhones they wish to unlock in this manner. Google it. Further, what the DOJ does not understand is that if Apple provides the tool for opening this phone, then the government and any hackers who get ahold of that tool will be able to access any phone with the same specifications. As Tim Cook puts it, it'd be the software equivalent of cancer.
  - einarvollset 11y ago
    Even if the FBI has thousands of phones it wishes to unlock with a valid court order, where is the problem? Why are you against this in principle? How is your phone fundamentally different to your house? Regarding it being like cancer - why? How can it not be like smallpox? What is hard about clean rooming these phones and hacking them? Specifics please.

duncan_bayne 11y ago

Assume she is informed. Assume she doesn't really care about the outcome of this case, but is after a particular precedent. At this point her actions become a lot easier to understand.

einarvollset 11y ago

I do not think you have actually read enough about this specific case. For example: the govt is not asking for "the FBI to get into every Apple phone". If you disagree with this assertion, please provide a link where govt is asking for that.

Johnny555 11y ago
Maybe not "every" phone, but "a lot" of phones: On Tuesday, Comey said the FBI is asking for access to that specific phone but understood the decision would set a precedent for similar cases. Asked how many iPhones the FBI would like Apple to unlock, Comey said he could not name a number but that there were "a lot" of phones that hold information needed for law enforcement investigations. http://www.reuters.com/article/apple-encryption-congress-comey-idUSL2N1691JX http://www.reuters.com/article/apple-encryption-congress-com...
- einarvollset 11y ago
  Again, I don't think you've really read what the govt is asking: yes this would set the precedent for them to request via a valid search warrant and on a case by case basis to open maybe even "a lot" of phones. My point is - grabbing the master keys would give them access to all.
  - Johnny555 11y ago
    Once they set precedent to get Apple to provide them with the software they need, why do you think they won't later compel Apple to provide them with the keys to let them unlock any phone? Surely it's going to become a burden if the government has to go through Apple for every single unlock request - there may be thousands of them, so for convenience, why wouldn't they demand the software to do it themselves? It seems like gaining access to this dead guy's phone is not really what the FBI is after - they can already get his call records and SMS's from the carriers, there's not likely to be any actionable information left on the phone.
    - einarvollset 11y ago
      Yes, this sets the precedent that the govt may request, with a valid court order, to compel Apple to help grab information from a specific phone. The point I'm trying to make (repeatedly through this thread, which everyone seems to ignore) is that this is a pretty reasonable request. Notice that it becoming a burden for the govt to request this through Apple every time is in no way a reason why the govt would legally be allowed to "demand the software to do it themselves". In fact, as every single case would require a court order, the hassle of the court order is likely a magnitude greater than asking Apple to comply. For the govt to "demand the software to do it themselves" would be an entirely new court case. In fact, it is this very case that I do not want to see.
      - matwood 11y ago
        > The point I'm trying to make (repeatedly through this thread, which everyone seems to ignore) is that this is a pretty reasonable request. So when Apple makes the iPhone 7 such that even Apple cannot unlock the phone what happens?
studentrob 11y ago
I've read everything about this case. The implication that this is just about one phone is what is so demonstrably false. And it is people like you who we must seek to inform. The FBI has hundreds, if not thousands of iPhones they wish to unlock in this manner. Google it. Further, what the DOJ does not understand is that if Apple provides the tool for opening this phone, then the government and any hackers who get ahold of that tool will be able to access any phone with the same specifications. As Tim Cook puts it, it'd be the software equivalent of cancer.
- einarvollset 11y ago
  Even if the FBI has thousands of phones it wishes to unlock with a valid court order, where is the problem? Why are you against this in principle? How is your phone fundamentally different to your house? Regarding it being like cancer - why? How can it not be like smallpox? What is hard about clean rooming these phones and hacking them? Specifics please.