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When it comes to technology skills, the story gets worse. The U.S. came in last place — right below Poland. The study looked at basic technology tasks: things

When it comes to technology skills, the story gets worse. The U.S. came in last place — right below Poland. The study looked at basic technology tasks: things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message. Something to consider about your users.

subway 11y ago
Why can't I help but feel the "our users must never be forced to learn" and "our children must never experience discomfort" mindsets are related, and contribute to the US coming in last place.
- ajmurmann 11y ago
  Well, I certainly wouldn't want to start the company that makes the only product that has it as part of its philosophy to make their users learn in order to be able to use it efficiently. That being said you are probably right and the dumbed down UIs we see more and more with low information density are annoying and underline what you are saying. Everything is catering to the lowest common denominator.
  - losteric 11y ago
    It depends on the product... Photoshop's did pretty well and it's learning curve is almost vertical. It's all about reducing pain. If you're automating something simple (like a TODO list), it better be stupid-friendly. But expert-oriented UX is fine for complex expert-level problems.
    - marcus_holmes 11y ago
      Photoshop's UI is developed for a market of people who have particular skills in... Photoshop's UI. Their learning curve is vertical because they have a large user base of people who have invested significant time and effort learning that arcane UI. They're also dominant in the market - any new designer had better know their way around Photoshop's UI or they're unemployable (at least until recently). A new product in that market, aimed at the same audience, say.. Sketch... needs a friendly UI because it doesn't have the same invested user base. In other words, Photoshop's UI can be difficult because it's always been difficult and its always been the dominant player in the market, not because it's expert-oriented.
  - 50CNT 11y ago
    I think catering to the lowest common denominator is the wrong strategy though. If you're writing a tool that isn't trivial, you want to cater to the perpetual intermediate, which is where most people end up. No one wants to be a beginner forever, but most people don't need to become power users either. So you allow beginners to board, give them features they can use, and slowly show them more and more complex things till they feel confident using your product. That should be inherent in the design of the product. Then start adding features for experts that may screw things up if you don't know how to use them, but hide them a bit further in the tree.
- acjohnson55 11y ago
  Of our peer nations in the survey, some are known for very intense childhood expectations and others for being more nurturing than us. I'd suggest the answer is probably elsewhere.
squeaky-clean 11y ago
I was at a Walgreens a little while ago, and there was a lady buying some sort of cable for a camera. I remember her literally asking the store clerk, "Will this work with a laptop, or does it have to be a computer?" I bring up this anecdote whenever someone else asserts "<simple technological skill> is common sense, no one could be confused by it". Help your parents with tech support at least once a year (or your friends' parents if yours are technologically competent). It helps you keep a healthy perspective of how other people see our trade :P
- murjinsee 11y ago
  Thanks for saying this! I work with phones and it's sad to hear people talk about the ever-widening gap technology places between them and their children. Too many people from younger generations make fun of their parents for being technically illiterate. I spend an hour a week at least bringing my mom up to speed on Google Photos, iOS content management, etc. It feels good seeing somebody learn how to do things for themselves, and you should hear your parents brag about you for your minor assistance.
  - mindcrime 11y ago
    I work with phones and it's sad to hear people talk about the ever-widening gap technology places between them and their children. Meh. It's not an age issue. Anybody who's the parent of a contemporary teenager is probably a gen X'er themselves and when we were teenagers people said the same shit. Except back then it was "parents can't program their VCR's but the teenagers can". It was bullocks then and it's bullocks now. It's an attitude / interest / personality thing (or something like that) not age. Remember, the oldest generations still hanging around include people who built the first computers in existence, and slightly younger ones include the people who created UNIX, VMS, C, etc. Some people are interested in technology and have a natural inclination to poke around and figure out how shit works, and some don't.
    - kuschku 11y ago
      Indeed. My parents never had to use computers much, and only got a smartphone 2 years ago, but by now they can send GPG encrypted mail, can install apps — and understand why an app requesting permissions it shouldn't need isn't trustworthy, etc. If you want to, you can always learn. Most people just don't want to learn.
electic 11y ago
This is very true. If you are a developer or a designer, I highly recommend you go to the Apple store and hang out for a few hours by the Genius Bar. It is eye opening to see the questions that people ask. I have a lot of respect for Genius Bar employees who calmly explain how to use email, their iPhone, or their laptops. You learn so much about UX and user's thinking by spending some time there.
mindcrime 11y ago
The study looked at basic technology tasks: things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message. Do they realize that the average American High-School aged student would consider almost all of those activities to be archaic relics of a bygone age? Young people don't use email or drop-down menus, and even texting is "so 2000's". American teens have moved on to Snapchat or whatever is after that.
- Throwaway23412 11y ago
  Am I missing something? In what world does the average young person not use a drop-down menu? Also, doesn't Snapchat require an email to register? Do young people not use iMessage or any other messaging app to send text messages? Are you making a joke that went over my head?
  - mindcrime 11y ago
    In what world does the average young person not use a drop-down menu? I'm thinking in terms of "old style" drop down menus, as in ones you'd see in a browser on a desktop PC. As opposed to the newer style that replace those in smartphone apps and browsers. Also, doesn't Snapchat require an email to register? Probably, but that doesn't mean many young people actually use email, at least not on any regular basis. Heck, the stuff about young people not using email is so old now, I feel like I'm dating myself by mentioning it! Do young people not use iMessage or any other messaging app to send text messages? But is that what this study looked at? Are you making a joke that went over my head? Not really, but I may have been engaging in just a smidgen of hyperbole.
    - alextgordon 11y ago
      If they get an office job they are going to have to use drop-down menus, rename files, send emails, etc. If schools only taught teenagers the skills that teenagers deem relevant... there wouldn't be much need for schools.
GreaterFool 11y ago
I grew up in Poland and both mathematics and technical skills were pretty high among my peers. Did the education system go down that much in the past 12 years?
- mamon 11y ago
  Yes, reformed education system is THAT BAD.

subway 11y ago

Why can't I help but feel the "our users must never be forced to learn" and "our children must never experience discomfort" mindsets are related, and contribute to the US coming in last place.

ajmurmann 11y ago
Well, I certainly wouldn't want to start the company that makes the only product that has it as part of its philosophy to make their users learn in order to be able to use it efficiently. That being said you are probably right and the dumbed down UIs we see more and more with low information density are annoying and underline what you are saying. Everything is catering to the lowest common denominator.
- losteric 11y ago
  It depends on the product... Photoshop's did pretty well and it's learning curve is almost vertical. It's all about reducing pain. If you're automating something simple (like a TODO list), it better be stupid-friendly. But expert-oriented UX is fine for complex expert-level problems.
  - marcus_holmes 11y ago
    Photoshop's UI is developed for a market of people who have particular skills in... Photoshop's UI. Their learning curve is vertical because they have a large user base of people who have invested significant time and effort learning that arcane UI. They're also dominant in the market - any new designer had better know their way around Photoshop's UI or they're unemployable (at least until recently). A new product in that market, aimed at the same audience, say.. Sketch... needs a friendly UI because it doesn't have the same invested user base. In other words, Photoshop's UI can be difficult because it's always been difficult and its always been the dominant player in the market, not because it's expert-oriented.
- 50CNT 11y ago
  I think catering to the lowest common denominator is the wrong strategy though. If you're writing a tool that isn't trivial, you want to cater to the perpetual intermediate, which is where most people end up. No one wants to be a beginner forever, but most people don't need to become power users either. So you allow beginners to board, give them features they can use, and slowly show them more and more complex things till they feel confident using your product. That should be inherent in the design of the product. Then start adding features for experts that may screw things up if you don't know how to use them, but hide them a bit further in the tree.
acjohnson55 11y ago
Of our peer nations in the survey, some are known for very intense childhood expectations and others for being more nurturing than us. I'd suggest the answer is probably elsewhere.

squeaky-clean 11y ago

I was at a Walgreens a little while ago, and there was a lady buying some sort of cable for a camera. I remember her literally asking the store clerk, "Will this work with a laptop, or does it have to be a computer?" I bring up this anecdote whenever someone else asserts "<simple technological skill> is common sense, no one could be confused by it". Help your parents with tech support at least once a year (or your friends' parents if yours are technologically competent). It helps you keep a healthy perspective of how other people see our trade :P

murjinsee 11y ago
Thanks for saying this! I work with phones and it's sad to hear people talk about the ever-widening gap technology places between them and their children. Too many people from younger generations make fun of their parents for being technically illiterate. I spend an hour a week at least bringing my mom up to speed on Google Photos, iOS content management, etc. It feels good seeing somebody learn how to do things for themselves, and you should hear your parents brag about you for your minor assistance.
- mindcrime 11y ago
  I work with phones and it's sad to hear people talk about the ever-widening gap technology places between them and their children. Meh. It's not an age issue. Anybody who's the parent of a contemporary teenager is probably a gen X'er themselves and when we were teenagers people said the same shit. Except back then it was "parents can't program their VCR's but the teenagers can". It was bullocks then and it's bullocks now. It's an attitude / interest / personality thing (or something like that) not age. Remember, the oldest generations still hanging around include people who built the first computers in existence, and slightly younger ones include the people who created UNIX, VMS, C, etc. Some people are interested in technology and have a natural inclination to poke around and figure out how shit works, and some don't.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    Indeed. My parents never had to use computers much, and only got a smartphone 2 years ago, but by now they can send GPG encrypted mail, can install apps — and understand why an app requesting permissions it shouldn't need isn't trustworthy, etc. If you want to, you can always learn. Most people just don't want to learn.

electic 11y ago

This is very true. If you are a developer or a designer, I highly recommend you go to the Apple store and hang out for a few hours by the Genius Bar. It is eye opening to see the questions that people ask. I have a lot of respect for Genius Bar employees who calmly explain how to use email, their iPhone, or their laptops. You learn so much about UX and user's thinking by spending some time there.

mindcrime 11y ago

The study looked at basic technology tasks: things like using email, buying and returning items online, using a drop-down menu, naming a file on a computer or sending a text message. Do they realize that the average American High-School aged student would consider almost all of those activities to be archaic relics of a bygone age? Young people don't use email or drop-down menus, and even texting is "so 2000's". American teens have moved on to Snapchat or whatever is after that.

Throwaway23412 11y ago
Am I missing something? In what world does the average young person not use a drop-down menu? Also, doesn't Snapchat require an email to register? Do young people not use iMessage or any other messaging app to send text messages? Are you making a joke that went over my head?
- mindcrime 11y ago
  In what world does the average young person not use a drop-down menu? I'm thinking in terms of "old style" drop down menus, as in ones you'd see in a browser on a desktop PC. As opposed to the newer style that replace those in smartphone apps and browsers. Also, doesn't Snapchat require an email to register? Probably, but that doesn't mean many young people actually use email, at least not on any regular basis. Heck, the stuff about young people not using email is so old now, I feel like I'm dating myself by mentioning it! Do young people not use iMessage or any other messaging app to send text messages? But is that what this study looked at? Are you making a joke that went over my head? Not really, but I may have been engaging in just a smidgen of hyperbole.
  - alextgordon 11y ago
    If they get an office job they are going to have to use drop-down menus, rename files, send emails, etc. If schools only taught teenagers the skills that teenagers deem relevant... there wouldn't be much need for schools.

GreaterFool 11y ago

I grew up in Poland and both mathematics and technical skills were pretty high among my peers. Did the education system go down that much in the past 12 years?

mamon 11y ago
Yes, reformed education system is THAT BAD.