6 ms·

The poor get financially hosed in so many different ways in the US that singling out toilet paper, of all things, seems almost laughable. How about real killer

by cubano 11y ago

The poor get financially hosed in so many different ways in the US that singling out toilet paper, of all things, seems almost laughable. How about real killers, like payday loans, bank fees, and paying more for milk, eggs, and everything else at the corner store because you don't have transportation to get to Costco? And if you want next level hosedom, how about the opportunity cost of having limited or no transportation? Many of the poor have felony criminal records, as I do, so how about the political cost of being denied the right to vote? The list goes on and on. [edit] The title does say "..and almost everything else" so I guess I missed that.

city41 11y ago
The article also explained why toilet paper was chosen. It's something people stock up on when they can, but having a stock pile doesn't change usage habits. It turns out to be a good product for investigating what the article is interested in.
stvswn 11y ago
Why are payday loans a real killer? Is it because you think short-term, high-interest loans to people with poor credit is bad for the people with poor credit, or are you OK with it in principle but think they should be more upfront about some of the shady things like hidden fees, deceptive tactics, etc.?
- tim333 11y ago
  Slightly off topic but from my experience in the UK the problem tends more to be 35% credit card interest. Payday loan people like Wonga generally won't lend to the seriously poor - they make their money from generally solvent people who've had something like a boiler pack up needing replacement.
  - MBCook 11y ago
    Bingo. I used to have a job he payday loan industry in the US. The truest poor would be terrible clients because they'll never pay you back. And since you only lent $300 you'd lose more than that trying to collect with a lawyer (ignoring the fact they can't pay in the first place). People who can manage their money up have a sudden need aren't good either. They'll take the loan, pay it back, and that's it. You made $60 and nothing else. The customers they want are on the edge. They have enough money to be able to 'rollover' the loan (extend another 2 weeks for a fee) but not actually pay it off. Over time the fees add up and they're paying you more, but you don't want them to totally default. At $60 + fees every two weeks it doesn't take long to make back the original $300 and then you're printing money. Yes these can be people right on the edge of total poverty. It can be people who have enough money but are irresponsible and use payday loans to fill gaps but aren't in serious trouble. Sometimes it's people who make a ton of money but are up to their eyeballs in debt and can't fill the credit cards up kore.
dclowd9901 11y ago
How about more things? Credit, which was literally created to hose the poor. How about goddamn product marketing which merely has the effect 1) robbing poor people of their time and 2) jacking up costs of goods at the expense of 1? It's all wrong.
- NiftyFifty 11y ago
  Its a product for normal people, not those who are unable to manage their budgets. Oh wait ... crack whore money n shit. Keep forgetting about that.
- dnautics 11y ago
  I always thought credit was created by merchants to screw the nobility. If there's anything that screws the poor, it's inflation.
  - eru 11y ago
    The poor don't have money. How does inflation screw them?
    - elchudi2 11y ago
      Prices of goods usually adjust quicker than salaries
      - eru 11y ago
        Do we have statistics on that?
        dnautics 11y ago
        it's pretty much true all the time, except notably in the US during the 50-60s when we had wage led inflation. moreover, having wage increases lag price increases is a part of the policy reason for having state-driven inflation, in the name of employment. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/the-case-for-higher-inflation/?_r=0 http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/the-case-for-hig... "Yet when you have very low inflation, getting relative wages right would require that a significant number of workers take wage cuts. So having a somewhat higher inflation rate would lead to lower unemployment, not just temporarily, but on a sustained basis."

by cubano 11y ago

city41 11y ago

The article also explained why toilet paper was chosen. It's something people stock up on when they can, but having a stock pile doesn't change usage habits. It turns out to be a good product for investigating what the article is interested in.

stvswn 11y ago

Why are payday loans a real killer? Is it because you think short-term, high-interest loans to people with poor credit is bad for the people with poor credit, or are you OK with it in principle but think they should be more upfront about some of the shady things like hidden fees, deceptive tactics, etc.?

tim333 11y ago
Slightly off topic but from my experience in the UK the problem tends more to be 35% credit card interest. Payday loan people like Wonga generally won't lend to the seriously poor - they make their money from generally solvent people who've had something like a boiler pack up needing replacement.
- MBCook 11y ago
  Bingo. I used to have a job he payday loan industry in the US. The truest poor would be terrible clients because they'll never pay you back. And since you only lent $300 you'd lose more than that trying to collect with a lawyer (ignoring the fact they can't pay in the first place). People who can manage their money up have a sudden need aren't good either. They'll take the loan, pay it back, and that's it. You made $60 and nothing else. The customers they want are on the edge. They have enough money to be able to 'rollover' the loan (extend another 2 weeks for a fee) but not actually pay it off. Over time the fees add up and they're paying you more, but you don't want them to totally default. At $60 + fees every two weeks it doesn't take long to make back the original $300 and then you're printing money. Yes these can be people right on the edge of total poverty. It can be people who have enough money but are irresponsible and use payday loans to fill gaps but aren't in serious trouble. Sometimes it's people who make a ton of money but are up to their eyeballs in debt and can't fill the credit cards up kore.

dclowd9901 11y ago

How about more things? Credit, which was literally created to hose the poor. How about goddamn product marketing which merely has the effect 1) robbing poor people of their time and 2) jacking up costs of goods at the expense of 1? It's all wrong.

NiftyFifty 11y ago
Its a product for normal people, not those who are unable to manage their budgets. Oh wait ... crack whore money n shit. Keep forgetting about that.
dnautics 11y ago
I always thought credit was created by merchants to screw the nobility. If there's anything that screws the poor, it's inflation.
- eru 11y ago
  The poor don't have money. How does inflation screw them?
  - elchudi2 11y ago
    Prices of goods usually adjust quicker than salaries
    - eru 11y ago
      Do we have statistics on that?
      - dnautics 11y ago
        it's pretty much true all the time, except notably in the US during the 50-60s when we had wage led inflation. moreover, having wage increases lag price increases is a part of the policy reason for having state-driven inflation, in the name of employment. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/the-case-for-higher-inflation/?_r=0 http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/the-case-for-hig... "Yet when you have very low inflation, getting relative wages right would require that a significant number of workers take wage cuts. So having a somewhat higher inflation rate would lead to lower unemployment, not just temporarily, but on a sustained basis."