11 ms·

Commuting Takes Its Toll

126 points by brahmwg 11y ago

insulanian 11y ago
Commute time is my reading time. I truly enjoy it!
PebblesHD 11y ago
Under this document's classification of commuters I would fall into the 'extreme' category, travelling just over 1hr30m each way to get into Sydney from rouse hill in the west. I would say there is definitely a noticeable difference in my office between those of us who travel long distance and those who live closer to the office, usually in attitude and propensity to drink multiple coffees in a day. Problem is, I would love a shorter commute, but my lifestyle is simply incompatible with life in an apartment or tiny, semi-detached town house, so I'm left with having a nice place to come home to but a long journey to get there, which for the most part I feel is a worthwhile trade so far.
- danharaj 11y ago
  How do you spend your commute? I used to do something like that, it nearly drove me mad over 4 years.
  - PebblesHD 11y ago
    I've got a great pair of noise cancelling headphones I listen to, and I bought an iPad to read the news and watch some TV on the way. Occasionally I've just slept, but I've found that a lot harder on busses recently.
    - hueving 11y ago
      As an American you just assume people are talking about driving when they talk about commutes. That made your comment horrifying to read at first. :)
      - PebblesHD 11y ago
        Driving would make it a 2hr+ trip both ways, the main road between the western suburbs and Sydney (the M2 motorway) is gridlock in peak hour.
  - manyxcxi 11y ago
    My commute used to be either an hour by by car (10min) and light rail or 20-40min by motorcycle (carpool lane + dodging through traffic as I feel). Sometimes the gloom and rain of Seattle just meant I couldn't bear to ride that day. Sometimes I needed to get some emails punched out or I just REALLY wanted to read a book. Even though it took longer I almost always felt more relaxed when I got home from riding the light rail. But I usually felt more ready to work when I rode in. By the end of my time at that company I was riding my motorcycle about 90% of the time because I couldn't bare to give up 2+ hours a day to my commute. When I left and started my own company the first thing I did was find an office space I could ride my bicycle to. It's actually faster to ride my bike than drive.
    - mooreds 11y ago
      I commuted to a job in the big city (about 45 minutes away by car, an hourish by bus) for about 8 months. I started the job in the fall, and riding the bus was fine, but as May rolled around and I saw the weather getting better and better and thinking about all the time I was stuck in a bus instead of outside, I realized it wasn't going to work out. (There were other things going on at the company too, but this was definitely the straw that broke this commuting camel's back.)
      - manyxcxi 11y ago
        Living in the Pacific NW as an avid motorcyclist- it's been a semi bittersweet transition. It was 22.5mi from driveway to (free motorcycle) parking garage- which meant I was riding on average 425mi a week. I used to average MAYBE 2500mi a year, excluding summer road trips, before commuting every day on my bike. Especially during the spring and summer- I missed that nice, gorgeous, Seattle morning ride as the morning transitioned from pre-dawn light. I'm probably going to have to find a really inneficient and long way to get to the office some mornings now that I think about it.
- lucaspiller 11y ago
  You don't seem too annoyed by the commute, do you have a family? I don't yet, but I can't imagine basically not seeing my children because I spend the whole day working. Have you looked into working remotely?
  - ACow_Adonis 11y ago
    He's from Sydney. In Sydney, having a significant number of your colleagues (and yourself) doing monstrous commutes is incredibly normalised. The house prices and transport situation is just a nightmare. You tend to not realise just how weird it is unless you moved to Sydney from somewhere else, or until you leave Sydney to go somewhere else... /spent a year or so living there myself: my commute was actually about 30 mins (Hornsby - Chatswood), SO's was about 1 hour 15 mins each way into the CBD once walking time was added on...
    - _kyran 11y ago
      As a visitor, catching trains in Sydney was great, but taking busses often meant very unpredictable timing, and extremely long travel times to get anywhere. I ended up taking a little over 2 and a half hours from the CBD to North Ryde.
    - PebblesHD 11y ago
      That sounds very accurate from my experiences so far. The trains are significantly better than busses which is why I'm so excited for the new rail system going in near my house. To answer the question above, no, I don't have a family (yet) but I imagine this would make the decision significantly different in favour of time to spend with them.
- alkonaut 11y ago
  I wouldn't mind commuting 1-2h if it was work hours, i.e I leave at 8 and drive + do phone calls, or work on a train for 1.5h, get to the office 9.30, work until 3.30, work 1.5h on my way home and can pick kids up at 5. If I had to leave at 6 or come home at 7 when the kids are sleeping it wouldn't be worth it regardless of what job it is or how nice the house is.
- hudibras 11y ago
  >my lifestyle is simply incompatible with life in an apartment or tiny, semi-detached town house But your lifestyle is compatible with spending 15 hours a week (60 hours a month, 700 hours per year, or the equivalent of 17 additional 40-hour workweeks annually) commuting?
  - dbalbright 11y ago
    It's probably less for him and made for family. People will sacrifice a lot for their kids.
    - hudibras 11y ago
      I'm certainly not going to judge anybody's decisions when it comes to raising their children, but a long commute means many hours away from the kids. When they're grown, will they be more likely to remember the nice yard and school or the extra time spent with Mom and Dad?
  - PebblesHD 11y ago
    It depends on the person, for me the restrictions of living in a flat (no music, no friends over late, no ability to knock down walls or paint) are a larger problem for me than a long commute. I have people around almost every night for dinners, movies etc. and can't see myself getting rid of that for the convenience of a short trip. Having enough space and green around for a nice place to have a family is also important.
capkutay 11y ago
The costliest tradeoff for commuting is working out. It's hard to exercise after commuting due to general exhaustion from the work day. Waking up very early to work out before the commute can have bad effects productivity for that day.
- mahyarm 11y ago
  I put a power rack in my home, trying to treat my fitness like I treat brushing my teeth. I just need a few more bits of equipment to ship in and I will see how it will compare to going to the gym and wasting all that time there.
- sethammons 11y ago
  I have a long commute (apparently I am a super commuter), and work out in the morning, as long as the train is not fcking late... again. I've noticed that crossfit in the morning gives me MORE energy throughout the day. Gone are the 3pm doldrums.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
barrkel 11y ago
I commute by motorcycle. My commute is one of my favourite parts of the day.
- hkmurakami 11y ago
  I absolutely felt the same way about my 90 minute one way bike commute back when I was commuting to Sunnyvale. :)
- asteli 11y ago
  I've started to do this. I find myself cracking a grin when encountering traffic, it's magical. However, the risk tradeoff takes some willfulness to ignore. On Thursday, one of my moto-commuting co-workers was struck by an SUV that executed a surprise lane change. Laid it down at 60mph, escaped with barely a scratch. Calculating mileage and maintenance costs is easy compared to factoring in your risk of bodily damage from your commute. Commuting on a motorcycle is fun, but I haven't figured out whether it's 'worth it.'
kylestlb 11y ago
Article is a decade old, FYI.
bfrog 11y ago
I commute by bike, my commute is easily one of the most enjoyable parts of my day, around 30 minutes each way, in all weather. Every day is like being a kid again, its exciting when it rains or snows or the wind blows or the sun is out. I don't think commutes are the problem, its the typical mode of transport humans choose is the problem.
- cwp 11y ago
  Yeah, the mode matters, but really 30 minutes is an easy commute regardless of the mode. If you were to spend, say, 90 minutes going each way, that would take its toll too. (Though there would also be benefits to getting that much exercise.)
  - mayneack 11y ago
    My personal experience is that mode definitely counts even if time extremes might override it. My bike commute is the same time as my car commute (Los Angeles). I for one vastly prefer the reliably 20 min biking to the 15-25 minutes of driving and dealing with traffic. Similarly I used to opt for a longer public transit commute than a car because of the active engagement that I needed with traffic in the car.
  - arm 11y ago
    I don’t know about that. I think the motivations you have for starting to commute by bike in the first place make a big difference. In my case, I had been using public transit (buses) as transportation for more than ten years, and frankly, I was completely fed up with it. For my current commute, the buses would never come on time (either 10+ minutes late, or just a bit too early). Then, when I’d finally catch my first bus, it would always reach the last stop just late enough for me to see the second bus (that I’d have to transfer on to) reach the stop I’d have to get to and leave. That’s not even mentioning all the other annoyances, like: • (sometimes) waiting more than an hour for a bus to arrive • the commute regularly taking 1.5 hours each way because the buses would regularly come too late or too early (on the very rare occasions when I’d catch both buses instantly, the commute would become a blissful 45 minutes; I truly treasured those days…) • etc. Finally, I got completely fed up of it and was desperately searching for some other way to get to my destination. After doing some research, I realized that I lived right next to a huge bike trail that could take me almost half the way, so I ended up getting a bike. Frankly, it was the best decision I’ve made in a long time. My commute is now 2 hours each way, but unlike the situation with the buses (where I was just waiting half the time), with the bike, I’m actually doing something (riding it), so the time passes by so fast, I always find it unbelievable when I realize that, somehow, two hours have just elapsed without me even noticing it.
ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
The experience of taking BART from Fremont, then MUNI, was very exhausting for me. Even assuming BART was running on time, there was at least 15-20 minutes of MUNI (riding and waiting) tacked onto my BART commute (Fremont->Civic Center). The MUNI part tended to really drag my spirits down.
jejones3141 11y ago
Before moving to Pittsburgh, I was commuting from Des Moines to Marshalltown in Iowa--60 miles, an hour's drive each way. I didn't drive, but it was still a pain and major time waster. In Pittsburgh, I found a minimal-walking bus path that required a transfer. It made the path slightly longer than the 5.6 miles from apartment to work, but still roughly a tenth the distance of Des Moines to Marshalltown. Surprise--it took about an hour each way, and longer if, as was far too common, the first bus in the morning was late or the second bus in the evening was late. What's wrong with this picture? I'm back in the Des Moines area now, and hoping for a much closer workplace.
- legulere 11y ago
  Busses simply are the worst way of commuting. They're slow, they're shaking you around the most, they stop the most, they let in most cold air when stopping, they're usually the dirtiest and most unpunctual. Busses simply suck.
elliottcarlson 11y ago
For a bit over ten years I spent on average 1.5 hours each way commuting to NYC from Staten Island. The commute took a toll on me, on my marriage, and just my overall happiness. Inclement weather, an accident, or constant road construction would often increase a one-way trip to nearly 2 hours. I couldn't stay out late, because of the bus schedules, and if I fell asleep on the bus after a certain hour and missed my stop, there was no bus to take my back to where my connection to my second bus was. It was frustrating. Coupled with being too married to my job and overall stress, it led to separating from my wife. I then moved right in to the city, a 15 minute walk to work. My overall happiness increased significantly. I could hang out with friends, stay out late if I wanted to - and I almost always found my place to be the place people would want to be at (somewhat opportunistic due to locality - but that's 100% fine by me). The price I paid was nearly quadrupling my rent. I felt like I deserved to treat my self to one year of this - and I quite enjoyed it - but the high rent was just not sustainable when you factor in alimony and past debt. I then moved to a place about 30-40 minutes away from work. The commute was nice, the distance is about just right, and the rent was $700 less than my Manhattan apartment. I immediately saw a drop off in how many people would be coming to visit me - once again, I am fine with that and understand the circumstances there. The problem is that now my building is raising my rent by $300 - and the expensive commute costs really don't offer much savings compared to living in the city anymore - this spot has been "discovered" and will now just keep going up like the rest of the commutable areas to NYC. So, this Monday, I am moving back to Staten Island - I will have twice the amount of space, dropping another $1000 from my current rent, and my commute will be about 1hr. I now have the opportunity to work from home a bit more, so by breaking up my week and staying home on Wednesdays, it will take the stress off of commuting in every day. A lot of the people I work with and manage work remotely - and they live all across the country - they don't have to worry about commuting in in the morning, and can live where they want to live -- sure, there are other disadvantages to working remotely, but as the availability of high-internet speeds and technologies make working remotely easier and more common place. As this improves, and more companies understand and embrace remote work mentality, I see the necessity of being chained to a big tech hub like SF or NYC to be far less important.
- ckib16 11y ago
  Ahhh..the Staten Island to Manhattan commute. I know that world well my friend. Nice work on getting a remote job. That must make things much easier.
tcopeland 11y ago
I commute from Herndon VA into DC a couple times a week. It takes about 1:15 each way. But I ride the Loudon Country transit bus, which has decent-size seats and aisles. So as soon as I get on the bus, I pop open my laptop and work on whatever coding I need to get done. The real beauty of it is that I don't bring a mifi card or anything like that, so I can't get online and read HN or whatever. Instead, if I run into an issue, I have to read the code of whatever I'm working on and experiment in the REPL to figure it out. So it's been really productive in a couple ways. I wouldn't want to do it every day, since it makes for long days - but a few times a week it's not bad at all.
- fosco 11y ago
  James? That's good to hear, I live 10 min from Herndon and had to drive to northern Arlington for a bit, with no traffic its 20minutes...But typically it was 1 hr each way. I think the metro system needssom. Work to improve its service in DC. More of a NYC business model. 15-18 bucks a day is not realistic during peak times for commute and parking
teddyh 11y ago
The True Cost of Commuting: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/06/the-true-cost-of-commuting/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/06/the-true-cost-of-c... “If these numbers sound ridiculous, it’s because they are. It is ridiculous to commute by car to work if you realize how expensive it is to drive, and if you value your time at anything close to what you get paid.”
- sdoering 11y ago
  Well I commute by car for 30 - 60 minutes (one way) per day. It is about 30km distance. I know the costs, as I pay them into an account for repairs, gasoline and so on. On the other hand the alternative would be 90 - 100 minutes (one way) of commute by train with (included) 20 minutes of walk. I would have to switch trains twice. Cost would be about half to a third of above cost. My time and my sanity (sitting in a car, listening to podcasts and not encountering the mass of idiots in public transport) is easily worth that much to me. So for me the math works - that my tl;dr.
  - hudibras 11y ago
    > On the other hand the alternative would be 90 - 100 minutes (one way) of commute by train Well, another alternative is to move somewhere closer to your current workplace and a fourth alternative is to get a job that's closer to your current home.
    - megablast 11y ago
      I have turned down jobs before because they were no in cycling distance. Do others just take anything anywhere?
      - lorenzhs 11y ago
        Not everyone has as much choice as a typical HN reader. Personally I'm completely on your side, I currently have a 15min bike ride to work. I only take the bus when bringing cake to work, everything else goes in the saddlebags :)
ajdlinux 11y ago
I consider myself extremely lucky to have a job in a city where I can afford (on my fresh-graduate salary) to live near the city centre, 15 minutes' walk from the office. I know I'll probably have to move further away if I find myself married with kids, but until then, I very, very much like where I am.
gricardo99 11y ago
Older article. Should have 2005 in the tittle.
ChrisNorstrom 11y ago
I've got you all beat. My job is a 1 minute jog from my house. Less than a football field away. It changed my life. My entire life has been altered for the better and every few days I wonder why we stopped designing cute little European/American towns where you can walk everywhere. My former commute was driving 30 miles and 30 minutes to work. From stress, to car insurance, to gas. All the bad things in my life have decreased. I have more time, feel healthier, and get more sleep. I haven't paid for gas or filled up my car in months. All from this seemingly small change. A 1 minute jog to work. I decided if I ever got a different job I would move to be as close as possible to it. The benefits are too enormous to overlook.
- Zombieball 11y ago
  Sorry, I live the same distance from work. And let's be honest with one another, it's totally a 5 minute commute! We WALK 3 minutes to the office (+2 mins additional to grab a coffee enroute).
- wpietri 11y ago
  I once had a shorter commute, but you still have me beat in experience. The office building I worked in had an abandoned caretaker's apartment on the roof. (For the Australians, it was in Sydney above the cinemas on George street.) I and a colleague nabbed it for basically nothing and commuted 30 seconds via elevator. It had some benefits, but honestly, it was weird to go entire days without leaving the building, and sometimes it felt like I was always at work.
- sweetbabyjesus 11y ago
  Work from home. Poop any time, eat any time, work from couch, take power naps - life has never been so good.
  - eru 11y ago
    I don't work from home, but we have toilets, food, couches and nap rooms at work, too.
    - 11y ago
shiftpgdn 11y ago
Why are we still commuting at all? The vast VAST majority of jobs can be done from home yet there is some sort of idea in management circles that if you're not in a cubicle you're not getting work done. Think of how much better everyone's lives would be if only those who absolutely needed to be in an office (Doctors, mechanics, etc) went to work and everyone else just stayed home.
- ubernostrum 11y ago
  I worked full-time remote for four years. Now I work a job which expects me to be physically present in the office. And... I'm kinda happy about the current job. Four years of being remote taught me how isolating it can be, how easy it is to end up feeling utterly detached from what my co-workers are doing, lacking in human interaction during my working hours, and being in an office and around people again every day has done a lot for me. So I wouldn't be so quick to send everybody to work from home all the time.
  - alkonaut 11y ago
    The perfect balance for me would be commuting or traveling 1-2 days a week for meetings, and working remote the rest of the week. When commuting 1h or more the time spent commuting should be spent doing phone meetings etc so you can start working as you leave the house, otherwise the work day can end up being 10-11h which is obviously not compatible with having a family.
    - draugadrotten 11y ago
      I've done 2 days a week of 2 hour commute and 3 days remote. It works, sort of. The 2 days in the office gives the social interactions and keeps relationships smooth. The 3 days remote provides calm time for productivity. However, I've also worked 5 days in office with 7 minutes bike ride. This is incredibly good. Every day is shorter. I will optimise any new job for shortest possible commute - it's really a winner.
  - GoToRO 11y ago
    it can work: when you work in an office you just can't wait to get home. When working from home at 5pm you must leave the home :) Go in a park, go somewhere, anywhere. The problem is not that you work from home, the problem is that you stay in the same place all day.
99_00 11y ago
Because business in a city tend to be clumped together it's impossible for everyone to live close to their work. Cities don't have a large unused space between homes and work which people send hours crossing everyday.
- mahyarm 11y ago
  Zoning tends to prevent that natural densification and mixed use, and NIMBYs want to protect their property values. People get long commutes because it's too expensive to live close to work. It's definitely done on purpose.
- eru 11y ago
  They could clump the people together (and up!) just like the businesses.. Just like mahyarm says. Look at Singapore or Hong Kong.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    Or even mixed use, like in European cities!
    - eru 11y ago
      Yes. They do mixed use in the Asian cities, too. And there's also not-so-mixed use eg in some German suburbs. Though by American standards, it's still very mixed. Ie you have to walk ten minutes to the nearest shop, instead of three. See https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Sonnenweg,+47918+T%C3%B6nisvorst,+Germany/@51.3143352,6.5082608,667m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x47b8af9f74549ae3:0x98dd0331fbb93a05 https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Sonnenweg,+47918+T%C3%B... for an example.
jasonkester 11y ago
Back in my days of working in an office, I used to move to a new apartment every time I changed jobs so that I could stay within walking distance. Being young and minimalist helped a lot with being able to pull it off, but I'd definitely recommend it for the benefits. Especially living downtown (Portland in my case) and having a short to medium sized stroll through the city to work, it's amazing what a difference it makes to your sanity compared to sitting in traffic for 45 minutes. I would interview for jobs and the first thing I'd ask the recruiter was whether they were in Portland itself or out in the suburbs. They'd say "yeah, definitely Portland" then set up an interview and give me an address out towards Beaverton. I'd have to cancel. Moving to LA, the difference was even more pronounced. I set up shop in a shabby little neighborhood in San Gabriel, the shortest distance across the sea of concrete that contained the office I was contracting at. They had guys driving in from the hills above Mission Viejo and even Yucaipa, 2.5 hours away. It was insane. Those guys never seemed overly happy with the situation. But I bet their houses looked nice. Fortunately, we don't have to worry about this anymore. Enough shops have caught on to the benefits of having everybody remote that a fella can pick up a gig from anywhere in the world these days. I haven't commuted more than 50 feet in a decade.
- mooreds 11y ago
  And that behavior of yours (before you started doing remote work) is a huge and understated benefit of renting rather than buying s home. You aren't "throwing money away", you are paying for, among other things, the privilege of being able to move quickly and cheaply.
- dsp1234 11y ago
  The flip side of this is to find a good company that is in the metro area, but not in the main city. For example, my commute from Sherwood to Wilsonville is 20-25 minutes. Since I'm not trying to drive through Portland proper, I'm able to use a back road that has 2-3 cards on it during 'rush hour'. So I'm able to get the big house and the short commute at the same time by have a starting and ending destination that is not where everyone else is.
  - 11y ago
rdlecler1 11y ago
The author doesn't give the breakdown, but I'd be willing to bet that men are bearing most of this burden. There's a lot of discussion about women being paid less than men, but the fact is that there is a lot more pressure on men to favor positions than maximize income generation that women. I know dozens and dozens of men who commute to and from Greenwich CT daily while their wives work locally or stay at home. These men barely see their family, but they do it so that their childrens get a good education.
- ant6n 11y ago
  Do you have any data to back this up?
jib 11y ago
I commute for about 1.5h each way. About 40 or so of those is biking, the rest on a bus with wifi. The bike part is exercise I would have needed to do anyway. The bus part is either working, or reading things I would read anyway. Sure, I would prefer a shorter trip, but the trade off of being able to live next to a beach and go swimming after work is worth it for me. Not to mention few neighbours, no noise etc and other benefits of living in the country. Much happier since I swapped from a 30 min bike commute from the suburbs.
logingone 11y ago
In London the argument for companies being in zone 1 is that meeting with people from other companies is easier. So for the few who have external meetings the entire company has to drag itself every morning and evening through the overcrowded, unpleasant London underground, arriving at work late, flustered, or miserable. What a way to start the day. If the companies moved only slightly out of centre, zones 2 or 3, the majority would be happier, and the few who meet outside would have a 10 or 15 minute, relatively pleasant, tube ride to get to a meeting.
- tfgg 11y ago
  Locating the office in zone 1 also allows people to live in lots of outer London areas. If you site the office in zones 2/3, you have to choose which bit of zones 2/3, potentially meaning people have to move house or commute even further. It's a higher cost to the company, but gives them access to a larger proportion of the labour market.
princetontiger 11y ago
The worst part after a commute is coming into an open office. People sneezing, coughing, talking. But, that topic requires another completely different article. :)
sethammons 11y ago
Most people think I have a crazy commute; perhaps I do. It may be worth it. I commute from the San Bernardino Mountains to Orange County. I wake up at 4:30am, eat a solid breakfast, leave the house at 5:30am, drive for 35 minutes to the train station, ride the train for 45 minutes, jump off, jog three blocks to the gym, work out for about 50 minutes, jog back to the train, get back on for 10 minutes, then walk for about 5 minutes to the office. So an hour and half ignoring the gym stop. I leave work around 4:30pm or 5:00pm, and get home about 6:30pm or 7:00pm (so about 2 hours to get home) and eat dinner with the family. I try to be in bed by 9:30pm. What are the pros? I can work, read, or email on the train. I listen to audiobooks on the drive. I commute with co-workers and can either shoot the shit or have productive talks. I get paid 150% of what I would work more local. Where I live, I have an amazing view, wildlife from birds to bears, seasons, can have any pets I want (I recently started raising chickens that live in my yard during the day), literally zero crime, very decent schools, family in the area, ... There are cons. I only get about one to one and a half hours at the most with my kids in the evening. I have zero time to do anything else during the week. I recently started experiencing one of the issues the articled called out: terrible sleep. Aside from a handful of nights, I've not gotten solid sleep in the last four months. That could be the commute, or diet, or anything else. Could I move closer to work? Corona would not cut it (I could save maybe about 30 minutes but that marginal benefit does not balance out), so I would have to move to something in Orange County. The prices are crazy. I don't know how people live there. Rent is FOUR TIMES my mortgage. I don't make enough to have a mortgage out there as I would have zero disposable income and zero savings (if I qualified for a mortgage). I've been doing this for five years now. If I could have a decent back yard, a mortgage that came in at 1/4 (or so) my income, and near a decent school, I would consider uprooting my family. I don't think that option exists.
- artmageddon 11y ago
  > I only get about one to one and a half hours at the most with my kids in the evening. Does this include weekends? I totally empathize with your situation concerning prices, but as your kids grow into teenagers, they'll want their own independence so this time may decrease as it goes on, and the time you have now with them while they're young... it's not time you'll get back, unfortunately.
jheriko 11y ago
I never used to mind a commute when I was driving it... now that I have to take a train it is the worst part of my day. It very obviously takes its toll on me.
CM30 11y ago
I can definitely agree that commuting for a long time each day takes a toll on your psychological health. My first 'real' job had a 1.5/2 hour journey each way, right through the centre of London and then out on the other side. It was absolutely exhausting, and utterly killed any motivation for me to actually do anything what I got back in each night. Oh sure, I had ambitions when I started the journey each evening, but they were damn well as good as dead when I'd finished it. Fortunately, my current commute is much better, only taking about half an hour a day and not involving the London Underground in any way. Could it be better? Probably, but it's reasonable enough for now, and isn't anywhere near as mentally exhausting. Living nearer work? Forget it, a lot of companies here are located in the most expensive areas of the city. Unless your family are wealthy enough to pay for a luxury apartment in the city of London, or maybe somewhere likes Mayfair or Knightsbridge, you're likely going to be commuting to any job round here. Even the cheaper places have rents high enough you'd likely end up living on the breadline with a typical developer salary.
Diederich 11y ago
I live in Mountain View and commute every day to San Francisco. This is more than 50 miles in each direction, and the freeways are terrible. But since I have been doing it, for the past four months, my wife has bought me a whole set of new pants. Smaller pants. I ride my bicycle about 2.5 miles on each end of Caltrain. 10 bicycle miles per day, with high consistency, has markedly improved my health. 10 bicycle miles is not much. But I push hard, each of those four separated segments, to be well winded. I have always hated exercise, and never did it consistently. But I intentionally set myself up to be "forced" to exercise. It is a 55 minute train ride on the front and 45 minutes on the back. And I get most of my best work done on the train. Because I catch 5:57am and the 3:37pm trains, I always get a good seat. My wifi is generally good. So it makes for a relatively long day, but I physically feel better than I have in a long time, and working on the train and early in the office gives me a lot of high quality "heads down" time every day, which is so important. As stated elsewhere, the commute itself is less important than the quality of the commute.
galfarragem 11y ago
My 2 cents: the relationship between commute time and annoyance is logarithmic.

126 points by brahmwg 11y ago

Commute time is my reading time. I truly enjoy it!

Under this document's classification of commuters I would fall into the 'extreme' category, travelling just over 1hr30m each way to get into Sydney from rouse hill in the west. I would say there is definitely a noticeable difference in my office between those of us who travel long distance and those who live closer to the office, usually in attitude and propensity to drink multiple coffees in a day. Problem is, I would love a shorter commute, but my lifestyle is simply incompatible with life in an apartment or tiny, semi-detached town house, so I'm left with having a nice place to come home to but a long journey to get there, which for the most part I feel is a worthwhile trade so far.

danharaj 11y ago
How do you spend your commute? I used to do something like that, it nearly drove me mad over 4 years.
- PebblesHD 11y ago
  I've got a great pair of noise cancelling headphones I listen to, and I bought an iPad to read the news and watch some TV on the way. Occasionally I've just slept, but I've found that a lot harder on busses recently.
  - hueving 11y ago
    As an American you just assume people are talking about driving when they talk about commutes. That made your comment horrifying to read at first. :)
    - PebblesHD 11y ago
      Driving would make it a 2hr+ trip both ways, the main road between the western suburbs and Sydney (the M2 motorway) is gridlock in peak hour.
- manyxcxi 11y ago
  My commute used to be either an hour by by car (10min) and light rail or 20-40min by motorcycle (carpool lane + dodging through traffic as I feel). Sometimes the gloom and rain of Seattle just meant I couldn't bear to ride that day. Sometimes I needed to get some emails punched out or I just REALLY wanted to read a book. Even though it took longer I almost always felt more relaxed when I got home from riding the light rail. But I usually felt more ready to work when I rode in. By the end of my time at that company I was riding my motorcycle about 90% of the time because I couldn't bare to give up 2+ hours a day to my commute. When I left and started my own company the first thing I did was find an office space I could ride my bicycle to. It's actually faster to ride my bike than drive.
  - mooreds 11y ago
    I commuted to a job in the big city (about 45 minutes away by car, an hourish by bus) for about 8 months. I started the job in the fall, and riding the bus was fine, but as May rolled around and I saw the weather getting better and better and thinking about all the time I was stuck in a bus instead of outside, I realized it wasn't going to work out. (There were other things going on at the company too, but this was definitely the straw that broke this commuting camel's back.)
    - manyxcxi 11y ago
      Living in the Pacific NW as an avid motorcyclist- it's been a semi bittersweet transition. It was 22.5mi from driveway to (free motorcycle) parking garage- which meant I was riding on average 425mi a week. I used to average MAYBE 2500mi a year, excluding summer road trips, before commuting every day on my bike. Especially during the spring and summer- I missed that nice, gorgeous, Seattle morning ride as the morning transitioned from pre-dawn light. I'm probably going to have to find a really inneficient and long way to get to the office some mornings now that I think about it.
lucaspiller 11y ago
You don't seem too annoyed by the commute, do you have a family? I don't yet, but I can't imagine basically not seeing my children because I spend the whole day working. Have you looked into working remotely?
- ACow_Adonis 11y ago
  He's from Sydney. In Sydney, having a significant number of your colleagues (and yourself) doing monstrous commutes is incredibly normalised. The house prices and transport situation is just a nightmare. You tend to not realise just how weird it is unless you moved to Sydney from somewhere else, or until you leave Sydney to go somewhere else... /spent a year or so living there myself: my commute was actually about 30 mins (Hornsby - Chatswood), SO's was about 1 hour 15 mins each way into the CBD once walking time was added on...
  - _kyran 11y ago
    As a visitor, catching trains in Sydney was great, but taking busses often meant very unpredictable timing, and extremely long travel times to get anywhere. I ended up taking a little over 2 and a half hours from the CBD to North Ryde.
  - PebblesHD 11y ago
    That sounds very accurate from my experiences so far. The trains are significantly better than busses which is why I'm so excited for the new rail system going in near my house. To answer the question above, no, I don't have a family (yet) but I imagine this would make the decision significantly different in favour of time to spend with them.
alkonaut 11y ago
I wouldn't mind commuting 1-2h if it was work hours, i.e I leave at 8 and drive + do phone calls, or work on a train for 1.5h, get to the office 9.30, work until 3.30, work 1.5h on my way home and can pick kids up at 5. If I had to leave at 6 or come home at 7 when the kids are sleeping it wouldn't be worth it regardless of what job it is or how nice the house is.
hudibras 11y ago
>my lifestyle is simply incompatible with life in an apartment or tiny, semi-detached town house But your lifestyle is compatible with spending 15 hours a week (60 hours a month, 700 hours per year, or the equivalent of 17 additional 40-hour workweeks annually) commuting?
- dbalbright 11y ago
  It's probably less for him and made for family. People will sacrifice a lot for their kids.
  - hudibras 11y ago
    I'm certainly not going to judge anybody's decisions when it comes to raising their children, but a long commute means many hours away from the kids. When they're grown, will they be more likely to remember the nice yard and school or the extra time spent with Mom and Dad?
- PebblesHD 11y ago
  It depends on the person, for me the restrictions of living in a flat (no music, no friends over late, no ability to knock down walls or paint) are a larger problem for me than a long commute. I have people around almost every night for dinners, movies etc. and can't see myself getting rid of that for the convenience of a short trip. Having enough space and green around for a nice place to have a family is also important.

capkutay 11y ago

The costliest tradeoff for commuting is working out. It's hard to exercise after commuting due to general exhaustion from the work day. Waking up very early to work out before the commute can have bad effects productivity for that day.

mahyarm 11y ago
I put a power rack in my home, trying to treat my fitness like I treat brushing my teeth. I just need a few more bits of equipment to ship in and I will see how it will compare to going to the gym and wasting all that time there.
sethammons 11y ago
I have a long commute (apparently I am a super commuter), and work out in the morning, as long as the train is not fcking late... again. I've noticed that crossfit in the morning gives me MORE energy throughout the day. Gone are the 3pm doldrums.
deleted 11y ago
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barrkel 11y ago

I commute by motorcycle. My commute is one of my favourite parts of the day.

hkmurakami 11y ago
I absolutely felt the same way about my 90 minute one way bike commute back when I was commuting to Sunnyvale. :)
asteli 11y ago
I've started to do this. I find myself cracking a grin when encountering traffic, it's magical. However, the risk tradeoff takes some willfulness to ignore. On Thursday, one of my moto-commuting co-workers was struck by an SUV that executed a surprise lane change. Laid it down at 60mph, escaped with barely a scratch. Calculating mileage and maintenance costs is easy compared to factoring in your risk of bodily damage from your commute. Commuting on a motorcycle is fun, but I haven't figured out whether it's 'worth it.'

kylestlb 11y ago

Article is a decade old, FYI.

bfrog 11y ago

I commute by bike, my commute is easily one of the most enjoyable parts of my day, around 30 minutes each way, in all weather. Every day is like being a kid again, its exciting when it rains or snows or the wind blows or the sun is out. I don't think commutes are the problem, its the typical mode of transport humans choose is the problem.

cwp 11y ago
Yeah, the mode matters, but really 30 minutes is an easy commute regardless of the mode. If you were to spend, say, 90 minutes going each way, that would take its toll too. (Though there would also be benefits to getting that much exercise.)
- mayneack 11y ago
  My personal experience is that mode definitely counts even if time extremes might override it. My bike commute is the same time as my car commute (Los Angeles). I for one vastly prefer the reliably 20 min biking to the 15-25 minutes of driving and dealing with traffic. Similarly I used to opt for a longer public transit commute than a car because of the active engagement that I needed with traffic in the car.
- arm 11y ago
  I don’t know about that. I think the motivations you have for starting to commute by bike in the first place make a big difference. In my case, I had been using public transit (buses) as transportation for more than ten years, and frankly, I was completely fed up with it. For my current commute, the buses would never come on time (either 10+ minutes late, or just a bit too early). Then, when I’d finally catch my first bus, it would always reach the last stop just late enough for me to see the second bus (that I’d have to transfer on to) reach the stop I’d have to get to and leave. That’s not even mentioning all the other annoyances, like: • (sometimes) waiting more than an hour for a bus to arrive • the commute regularly taking 1.5 hours each way because the buses would regularly come too late or too early (on the very rare occasions when I’d catch both buses instantly, the commute would become a blissful 45 minutes; I truly treasured those days…) • etc. Finally, I got completely fed up of it and was desperately searching for some other way to get to my destination. After doing some research, I realized that I lived right next to a huge bike trail that could take me almost half the way, so I ended up getting a bike. Frankly, it was the best decision I’ve made in a long time. My commute is now 2 hours each way, but unlike the situation with the buses (where I was just waiting half the time), with the bike, I’m actually doing something (riding it), so the time passes by so fast, I always find it unbelievable when I realize that, somehow, two hours have just elapsed without me even noticing it.

ZanyProgrammer 11y ago

The experience of taking BART from Fremont, then MUNI, was very exhausting for me. Even assuming BART was running on time, there was at least 15-20 minutes of MUNI (riding and waiting) tacked onto my BART commute (Fremont->Civic Center). The MUNI part tended to really drag my spirits down.

jejones3141 11y ago

Before moving to Pittsburgh, I was commuting from Des Moines to Marshalltown in Iowa--60 miles, an hour's drive each way. I didn't drive, but it was still a pain and major time waster. In Pittsburgh, I found a minimal-walking bus path that required a transfer. It made the path slightly longer than the 5.6 miles from apartment to work, but still roughly a tenth the distance of Des Moines to Marshalltown. Surprise--it took about an hour each way, and longer if, as was far too common, the first bus in the morning was late or the second bus in the evening was late. What's wrong with this picture? I'm back in the Des Moines area now, and hoping for a much closer workplace.

legulere 11y ago
Busses simply are the worst way of commuting. They're slow, they're shaking you around the most, they stop the most, they let in most cold air when stopping, they're usually the dirtiest and most unpunctual. Busses simply suck.

elliottcarlson 11y ago

For a bit over ten years I spent on average 1.5 hours each way commuting to NYC from Staten Island. The commute took a toll on me, on my marriage, and just my overall happiness. Inclement weather, an accident, or constant road construction would often increase a one-way trip to nearly 2 hours. I couldn't stay out late, because of the bus schedules, and if I fell asleep on the bus after a certain hour and missed my stop, there was no bus to take my back to where my connection to my second bus was. It was frustrating. Coupled with being too married to my job and overall stress, it led to separating from my wife. I then moved right in to the city, a 15 minute walk to work. My overall happiness increased significantly. I could hang out with friends, stay out late if I wanted to - and I almost always found my place to be the place people would want to be at (somewhat opportunistic due to locality - but that's 100% fine by me). The price I paid was nearly quadrupling my rent. I felt like I deserved to treat my self to one year of this - and I quite enjoyed it - but the high rent was just not sustainable when you factor in alimony and past debt. I then moved to a place about 30-40 minutes away from work. The commute was nice, the distance is about just right, and the rent was $700 less than my Manhattan apartment. I immediately saw a drop off in how many people would be coming to visit me - once again, I am fine with that and understand the circumstances there. The problem is that now my building is raising my rent by $300 - and the expensive commute costs really don't offer much savings compared to living in the city anymore - this spot has been "discovered" and will now just keep going up like the rest of the commutable areas to NYC. So, this Monday, I am moving back to Staten Island - I will have twice the amount of space, dropping another $1000 from my current rent, and my commute will be about 1hr. I now have the opportunity to work from home a bit more, so by breaking up my week and staying home on Wednesdays, it will take the stress off of commuting in every day. A lot of the people I work with and manage work remotely - and they live all across the country - they don't have to worry about commuting in in the morning, and can live where they want to live -- sure, there are other disadvantages to working remotely, but as the availability of high-internet speeds and technologies make working remotely easier and more common place. As this improves, and more companies understand and embrace remote work mentality, I see the necessity of being chained to a big tech hub like SF or NYC to be far less important.

ckib16 11y ago
Ahhh..the Staten Island to Manhattan commute. I know that world well my friend. Nice work on getting a remote job. That must make things much easier.

tcopeland 11y ago

I commute from Herndon VA into DC a couple times a week. It takes about 1:15 each way. But I ride the Loudon Country transit bus, which has decent-size seats and aisles. So as soon as I get on the bus, I pop open my laptop and work on whatever coding I need to get done. The real beauty of it is that I don't bring a mifi card or anything like that, so I can't get online and read HN or whatever. Instead, if I run into an issue, I have to read the code of whatever I'm working on and experiment in the REPL to figure it out. So it's been really productive in a couple ways. I wouldn't want to do it every day, since it makes for long days - but a few times a week it's not bad at all.

fosco 11y ago
James? That's good to hear, I live 10 min from Herndon and had to drive to northern Arlington for a bit, with no traffic its 20minutes...But typically it was 1 hr each way. I think the metro system needssom. Work to improve its service in DC. More of a NYC business model. 15-18 bucks a day is not realistic during peak times for commute and parking

teddyh 11y ago

The True Cost of Commuting: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/06/the-true-cost-of-commuting/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/06/the-true-cost-of-c... “If these numbers sound ridiculous, it’s because they are. It is ridiculous to commute by car to work if you realize how expensive it is to drive, and if you value your time at anything close to what you get paid.”

sdoering 11y ago
Well I commute by car for 30 - 60 minutes (one way) per day. It is about 30km distance. I know the costs, as I pay them into an account for repairs, gasoline and so on. On the other hand the alternative would be 90 - 100 minutes (one way) of commute by train with (included) 20 minutes of walk. I would have to switch trains twice. Cost would be about half to a third of above cost. My time and my sanity (sitting in a car, listening to podcasts and not encountering the mass of idiots in public transport) is easily worth that much to me. So for me the math works - that my tl;dr.
- hudibras 11y ago
  > On the other hand the alternative would be 90 - 100 minutes (one way) of commute by train Well, another alternative is to move somewhere closer to your current workplace and a fourth alternative is to get a job that's closer to your current home.
  - megablast 11y ago
    I have turned down jobs before because they were no in cycling distance. Do others just take anything anywhere?
    - lorenzhs 11y ago
      Not everyone has as much choice as a typical HN reader. Personally I'm completely on your side, I currently have a 15min bike ride to work. I only take the bus when bringing cake to work, everything else goes in the saddlebags :)

ajdlinux 11y ago

I consider myself extremely lucky to have a job in a city where I can afford (on my fresh-graduate salary) to live near the city centre, 15 minutes' walk from the office. I know I'll probably have to move further away if I find myself married with kids, but until then, I very, very much like where I am.

gricardo99 11y ago

Older article. Should have 2005 in the tittle.

ChrisNorstrom 11y ago

I've got you all beat. My job is a 1 minute jog from my house. Less than a football field away. It changed my life. My entire life has been altered for the better and every few days I wonder why we stopped designing cute little European/American towns where you can walk everywhere. My former commute was driving 30 miles and 30 minutes to work. From stress, to car insurance, to gas. All the bad things in my life have decreased. I have more time, feel healthier, and get more sleep. I haven't paid for gas or filled up my car in months. All from this seemingly small change. A 1 minute jog to work. I decided if I ever got a different job I would move to be as close as possible to it. The benefits are too enormous to overlook.

Zombieball 11y ago
Sorry, I live the same distance from work. And let's be honest with one another, it's totally a 5 minute commute! We WALK 3 minutes to the office (+2 mins additional to grab a coffee enroute).
wpietri 11y ago
I once had a shorter commute, but you still have me beat in experience. The office building I worked in had an abandoned caretaker's apartment on the roof. (For the Australians, it was in Sydney above the cinemas on George street.) I and a colleague nabbed it for basically nothing and commuted 30 seconds via elevator. It had some benefits, but honestly, it was weird to go entire days without leaving the building, and sometimes it felt like I was always at work.
sweetbabyjesus 11y ago
Work from home. Poop any time, eat any time, work from couch, take power naps - life has never been so good.
- eru 11y ago
  I don't work from home, but we have toilets, food, couches and nap rooms at work, too.
  - 11y ago

shiftpgdn 11y ago

Why are we still commuting at all? The vast VAST majority of jobs can be done from home yet there is some sort of idea in management circles that if you're not in a cubicle you're not getting work done. Think of how much better everyone's lives would be if only those who absolutely needed to be in an office (Doctors, mechanics, etc) went to work and everyone else just stayed home.

ubernostrum 11y ago
I worked full-time remote for four years. Now I work a job which expects me to be physically present in the office. And... I'm kinda happy about the current job. Four years of being remote taught me how isolating it can be, how easy it is to end up feeling utterly detached from what my co-workers are doing, lacking in human interaction during my working hours, and being in an office and around people again every day has done a lot for me. So I wouldn't be so quick to send everybody to work from home all the time.
- alkonaut 11y ago
  The perfect balance for me would be commuting or traveling 1-2 days a week for meetings, and working remote the rest of the week. When commuting 1h or more the time spent commuting should be spent doing phone meetings etc so you can start working as you leave the house, otherwise the work day can end up being 10-11h which is obviously not compatible with having a family.
  - draugadrotten 11y ago
    I've done 2 days a week of 2 hour commute and 3 days remote. It works, sort of. The 2 days in the office gives the social interactions and keeps relationships smooth. The 3 days remote provides calm time for productivity. However, I've also worked 5 days in office with 7 minutes bike ride. This is incredibly good. Every day is shorter. I will optimise any new job for shortest possible commute - it's really a winner.
- GoToRO 11y ago
  it can work: when you work in an office you just can't wait to get home. When working from home at 5pm you must leave the home :) Go in a park, go somewhere, anywhere. The problem is not that you work from home, the problem is that you stay in the same place all day.

99_00 11y ago

Because business in a city tend to be clumped together it's impossible for everyone to live close to their work. Cities don't have a large unused space between homes and work which people send hours crossing everyday.

mahyarm 11y ago
Zoning tends to prevent that natural densification and mixed use, and NIMBYs want to protect their property values. People get long commutes because it's too expensive to live close to work. It's definitely done on purpose.
eru 11y ago
They could clump the people together (and up!) just like the businesses.. Just like mahyarm says. Look at Singapore or Hong Kong.
- kuschku 11y ago
  Or even mixed use, like in European cities!
  - eru 11y ago
    Yes. They do mixed use in the Asian cities, too. And there's also not-so-mixed use eg in some German suburbs. Though by American standards, it's still very mixed. Ie you have to walk ten minutes to the nearest shop, instead of three. See https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Sonnenweg,+47918+T%C3%B6nisvorst,+Germany/@51.3143352,6.5082608,667m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x47b8af9f74549ae3:0x98dd0331fbb93a05 https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Sonnenweg,+47918+T%C3%B... for an example.

jasonkester 11y ago

Back in my days of working in an office, I used to move to a new apartment every time I changed jobs so that I could stay within walking distance. Being young and minimalist helped a lot with being able to pull it off, but I'd definitely recommend it for the benefits. Especially living downtown (Portland in my case) and having a short to medium sized stroll through the city to work, it's amazing what a difference it makes to your sanity compared to sitting in traffic for 45 minutes. I would interview for jobs and the first thing I'd ask the recruiter was whether they were in Portland itself or out in the suburbs. They'd say "yeah, definitely Portland" then set up an interview and give me an address out towards Beaverton. I'd have to cancel. Moving to LA, the difference was even more pronounced. I set up shop in a shabby little neighborhood in San Gabriel, the shortest distance across the sea of concrete that contained the office I was contracting at. They had guys driving in from the hills above Mission Viejo and even Yucaipa, 2.5 hours away. It was insane. Those guys never seemed overly happy with the situation. But I bet their houses looked nice. Fortunately, we don't have to worry about this anymore. Enough shops have caught on to the benefits of having everybody remote that a fella can pick up a gig from anywhere in the world these days. I haven't commuted more than 50 feet in a decade.

mooreds 11y ago
And that behavior of yours (before you started doing remote work) is a huge and understated benefit of renting rather than buying s home. You aren't "throwing money away", you are paying for, among other things, the privilege of being able to move quickly and cheaply.
dsp1234 11y ago
The flip side of this is to find a good company that is in the metro area, but not in the main city. For example, my commute from Sherwood to Wilsonville is 20-25 minutes. Since I'm not trying to drive through Portland proper, I'm able to use a back road that has 2-3 cards on it during 'rush hour'. So I'm able to get the big house and the short commute at the same time by have a starting and ending destination that is not where everyone else is.
- 11y ago

rdlecler1 11y ago

The author doesn't give the breakdown, but I'd be willing to bet that men are bearing most of this burden. There's a lot of discussion about women being paid less than men, but the fact is that there is a lot more pressure on men to favor positions than maximize income generation that women. I know dozens and dozens of men who commute to and from Greenwich CT daily while their wives work locally or stay at home. These men barely see their family, but they do it so that their childrens get a good education.

ant6n 11y ago
Do you have any data to back this up?

jib 11y ago

I commute for about 1.5h each way. About 40 or so of those is biking, the rest on a bus with wifi. The bike part is exercise I would have needed to do anyway. The bus part is either working, or reading things I would read anyway. Sure, I would prefer a shorter trip, but the trade off of being able to live next to a beach and go swimming after work is worth it for me. Not to mention few neighbours, no noise etc and other benefits of living in the country. Much happier since I swapped from a 30 min bike commute from the suburbs.

logingone 11y ago

In London the argument for companies being in zone 1 is that meeting with people from other companies is easier. So for the few who have external meetings the entire company has to drag itself every morning and evening through the overcrowded, unpleasant London underground, arriving at work late, flustered, or miserable. What a way to start the day. If the companies moved only slightly out of centre, zones 2 or 3, the majority would be happier, and the few who meet outside would have a 10 or 15 minute, relatively pleasant, tube ride to get to a meeting.

tfgg 11y ago
Locating the office in zone 1 also allows people to live in lots of outer London areas. If you site the office in zones 2/3, you have to choose which bit of zones 2/3, potentially meaning people have to move house or commute even further. It's a higher cost to the company, but gives them access to a larger proportion of the labour market.

princetontiger 11y ago

The worst part after a commute is coming into an open office. People sneezing, coughing, talking. But, that topic requires another completely different article. :)

sethammons 11y ago

Most people think I have a crazy commute; perhaps I do. It may be worth it. I commute from the San Bernardino Mountains to Orange County. I wake up at 4:30am, eat a solid breakfast, leave the house at 5:30am, drive for 35 minutes to the train station, ride the train for 45 minutes, jump off, jog three blocks to the gym, work out for about 50 minutes, jog back to the train, get back on for 10 minutes, then walk for about 5 minutes to the office. So an hour and half ignoring the gym stop. I leave work around 4:30pm or 5:00pm, and get home about 6:30pm or 7:00pm (so about 2 hours to get home) and eat dinner with the family. I try to be in bed by 9:30pm. What are the pros? I can work, read, or email on the train. I listen to audiobooks on the drive. I commute with co-workers and can either shoot the shit or have productive talks. I get paid 150% of what I would work more local. Where I live, I have an amazing view, wildlife from birds to bears, seasons, can have any pets I want (I recently started raising chickens that live in my yard during the day), literally zero crime, very decent schools, family in the area, ... There are cons. I only get about one to one and a half hours at the most with my kids in the evening. I have zero time to do anything else during the week. I recently started experiencing one of the issues the articled called out: terrible sleep. Aside from a handful of nights, I've not gotten solid sleep in the last four months. That could be the commute, or diet, or anything else. Could I move closer to work? Corona would not cut it (I could save maybe about 30 minutes but that marginal benefit does not balance out), so I would have to move to something in Orange County. The prices are crazy. I don't know how people live there. Rent is FOUR TIMES my mortgage. I don't make enough to have a mortgage out there as I would have zero disposable income and zero savings (if I qualified for a mortgage). I've been doing this for five years now. If I could have a decent back yard, a mortgage that came in at 1/4 (or so) my income, and near a decent school, I would consider uprooting my family. I don't think that option exists.

artmageddon 11y ago
> I only get about one to one and a half hours at the most with my kids in the evening. Does this include weekends? I totally empathize with your situation concerning prices, but as your kids grow into teenagers, they'll want their own independence so this time may decrease as it goes on, and the time you have now with them while they're young... it's not time you'll get back, unfortunately.

jheriko 11y ago

I never used to mind a commute when I was driving it... now that I have to take a train it is the worst part of my day. It very obviously takes its toll on me.

CM30 11y ago

I can definitely agree that commuting for a long time each day takes a toll on your psychological health. My first 'real' job had a 1.5/2 hour journey each way, right through the centre of London and then out on the other side. It was absolutely exhausting, and utterly killed any motivation for me to actually do anything what I got back in each night. Oh sure, I had ambitions when I started the journey each evening, but they were damn well as good as dead when I'd finished it. Fortunately, my current commute is much better, only taking about half an hour a day and not involving the London Underground in any way. Could it be better? Probably, but it's reasonable enough for now, and isn't anywhere near as mentally exhausting. Living nearer work? Forget it, a lot of companies here are located in the most expensive areas of the city. Unless your family are wealthy enough to pay for a luxury apartment in the city of London, or maybe somewhere likes Mayfair or Knightsbridge, you're likely going to be commuting to any job round here. Even the cheaper places have rents high enough you'd likely end up living on the breadline with a typical developer salary.

Diederich 11y ago

I live in Mountain View and commute every day to San Francisco. This is more than 50 miles in each direction, and the freeways are terrible. But since I have been doing it, for the past four months, my wife has bought me a whole set of new pants. Smaller pants. I ride my bicycle about 2.5 miles on each end of Caltrain. 10 bicycle miles per day, with high consistency, has markedly improved my health. 10 bicycle miles is not much. But I push hard, each of those four separated segments, to be well winded. I have always hated exercise, and never did it consistently. But I intentionally set myself up to be "forced" to exercise. It is a 55 minute train ride on the front and 45 minutes on the back. And I get most of my best work done on the train. Because I catch 5:57am and the 3:37pm trains, I always get a good seat. My wifi is generally good. So it makes for a relatively long day, but I physically feel better than I have in a long time, and working on the train and early in the office gives me a lot of high quality "heads down" time every day, which is so important. As stated elsewhere, the commute itself is less important than the quality of the commute.

galfarragem 11y ago

My 2 cents: the relationship between commute time and annoyance is logarithmic.