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Rainbow-bars [NO SIGNAL] right when stage 1 was landing on the barge... So suspenseful! The last frame before video cut out http://i.imgur.com/3HCnn7c.png htt

by toufka 11y ago

Rainbow-bars [NO SIGNAL] right when stage 1 was landing on the barge... So suspenseful! The last frame before video cut out http://i.imgur.com/3HCnn7c.png http://i.imgur.com/3HCnn7c.png Edit - looks like stage 1 did not survive landing (this time). https://twitter.com/MatthewBTravis/status/705908015711518720 https://twitter.com/MatthewBTravis/status/705908015711518720 The Drone Ship says, "Sorry guys :(" https://twitter.com/TheDroneShip/status/705907706209693696 https://twitter.com/TheDroneShip/status/705907706209693696

qrybam 11y ago
Tell me about it - never thought I'd be this excited about something landing on a floating platform!
dtparr 11y ago
Yeah, at least this time we expected that to happen. (SpaceX webcast guy indicated the rocket shakes the uplink dish so hard on approach it's likely to lose signal every time).
- daeken 11y ago
  I do wonder why they don't have a separate small barge with a couple fiber runs between them, to do the comms (e.g. host the dish(es)). I guess it just isn't that important.
  - dtparr 11y ago
    That was asked on the spacex sub-reddit. The response was something like "you underestimate the power of a Merlin" which I took to mean that a reasonable distance to avoid the effects is too far to reasonably run ship-to-ship cabling.
    - daeken 11y ago
      That's totally reasonable, too. I had assumed that the wash from the rocket would be largely straight down, but that's probably way wrong.
      - igjeff 11y ago
        It is probably pretty much straight down...until it impacts the flat surface of the ship.
    - mark-r 11y ago
      Fiber optic cable is relatively light weight and strong for the bandwidth it supplies. This seems like a cop-out.
      - spdustin 11y ago
        I'm sorry, but is it possible that the literal rocket scientists have given it more thought than you've given it credit for? I've only been posting here for a bit over a year. Has HN always had an issue with these sorts of pragmatic speech mis-queues where one posits that the experts are not aware of some painfully obvious solution? I find it to be condescending, but I'm not sure that such commenters realize it, and so I struggle with pointing it out - in case they didn't honestly realize the issue - or keeping my mouth shut, thereby avoiding potential conflict with someone who either can't be swayed or may actually be smarter than the group whose collective knowledge is being challenged. EDIT: I asked a legitimate question. Down votes don't teach people who want to learn, people.
        mark-r 11y ago
        Sorry, I don't know who gave you the downvote - it wasn't me. It does seem to me that the rocket scientists would have had their hands full with all the other issues around the launch and recovery. My guess is that the live feed isn't a priority for them, knowing that they can get what they need after the fact.
        niels_olson 11y ago
        Probably the naval architects who designed the barge are well-aware of underway replenishment procedures and know perfectly well how to connect two vessels underway. And probably asked the rocket scientists about some of these issues before drawing up the barge. Because, selling an unrep solution is going to cover a really nice year end bonus. The raw steel would cost more than half your lifetime earnings.
        Dylan16807 11y ago
        >I asked a legitimate question. Down votes don't teach people who want to learn, people. When "have you guys always screwed up this way" is your only non-rhetorical question, I call shenanigans on intent to learn. You solidly earned that downvote by being so patronizing. That said, it's very easy for a solution to be both painfully obvious and at the same time not worth the effort. The rocket scientist is busy doing rocket science. If they give a flippant answer, it's okay to point out that the answer is flippant. It's not condescending. It doesn't imply they are "not aware" of the solution. They simply lack infinite spare time to implement every solution to everything.
  - bsaul 11y ago
    Or just a flying army-like drone that would point to the barge, flying from a distance ?
    - baq 11y ago
      this is a no-no unless you get some serious telephoto hardware so you can get a good image from outside the no-fly zone. which has been done when the landing was happening in the daytime; not sure if the aircraft was manned, but there are aerial movies of a past failed attempt.
- rbanffy 11y ago
  It would make sense to record it in high quality while streaming lower bandwidth signals and, as soon as possible, send the original recording through the uplink.
dz0ny 11y ago
http://i.imgur.com/3HCnn7c.png http://i.imgur.com/3HCnn7c.png
stcredzero 11y ago
They need a bigger barge with more powerful station-keeping, and a dynamically stabilized hydraulic landing platform. (Along with a gimbal-stabilized uplink dish.)
- mikeash 11y ago
  I don't think any of the landing crashes so far have been due to the barge's size or movement. It's always been problems with the rocket, not the barge.
  - stcredzero 11y ago
    You're probably right. If they needed that stuff they'd probably build it. But I bet that what I suggest would result in being able to land in rougher weather with better media from 1st stage landings.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      I imagine so. I'm not sure how much they care about the satellite feed, but handling rough weather would definitely be a plus. There was already one landing attempt that they had to give up on because weather was good at the launch site but bad out at sea.
  - m_mueller 11y ago
    It's hard to tell really. If the barge was bigger it basically means more leanient constraints for the final approach, which could result in a softer landing. Remember that Falcons can't hover and thus have to achieve perfect timing for the final burn. If you constrain time down to almost zero and space down to a few meters and the initial velocity is terminal velocity + pretty fast horicontal movement, it's almost a wonder that they're already doing what they're doing.
    - Coincoin 11y ago
      Last time it effectively landed correctly in pretty rough conditions. The only problem was a landing leg did not lock because of ice and the stage was lost.
ChuckMcM 11y ago
While I'm sure there are a number of people who are really interested in the SES-9 success, I was really hoping to see a water landing. I continue to be amazed at how difficult it appears to be to get a reliable signal from an unmanned boat out in the Atlantic back to land.
- mikeash 11y ago
  It looks like getting a signal in normal circumstances is doable, but problems occur when a 200ft rocket shows up wanting to make friends.
  - wolf550e 11y ago
    Lots of motion in the frame -> high bandwidth requirements.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      That might cause the video to go funky, but it shouldn't cut the feed. My guess is that the satellite dish or other communications hardware gets upset when the first stage effectively takes a flamethrower to it.
      - robszumski 11y ago
        The issue is vibration which throws the uplink out of alignment with the receiver.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - NickNameNick 11y ago
        Or just shakes it a lot.
      - ChuckMcM 11y ago
        Seems a likely explanation. Its the engineer in my that goes wild here though, I think "why not have the uplink on a smaller flotation unit being held in place by a sea anchor? Or given the amount of time needed to monitor the return is relatively short (you know to the minute when it "should" touch down) could you launch the uplink on a hex a copter so that it could stand off from the barge, free of vibrations while the rocket landed? How about a 2.4Ghz cross link to an independent platform with its own uplink? How about using a towed fiber optic cable to a remote relay station away from the barge? Etc. I totally understand that this is a small (and in the larger picture unimportant) part of the mission, but the problem calls to me :-)
agumonkey 11y ago
I just love SpaceX skill in quantum mechanics http://imgur.com/StUjcAc http://imgur.com/StUjcAc Maybe, maybe not
samstave 11y ago
Why arent there literally hundreds of GOPRO cams on the droneship? I mean they can make a robotic rocket and sea-based-landing platform, but they cant take good video with $100 cameras? Why are all vids cut off as if it was some lame redditor's crappy gif repost? Edit: I was clearly misinformed. My question was bad and I feel as.
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  They have GoPros all over, and they usually release video afterwards from them. The problem is not the cameras, it's the uplink. Turns out cellular signals aren't so strong several hundred miles out to sea, and satellite uplinks are a bit iffy when your dish is being vibrated by a rocket.
  - samstave 11y ago
    Ah, well I was interested in longer content even delayed by days...
- dtparr 11y ago
  The problem as I understand it is not the cameras, as we generally get footage later. It's that whole "bandwidth" thing when you're 600km out to sea and a 14 story rocket comes flying in and messes up your satellite uplink.
sillysaurus3 11y ago
I like how your imgur post is a proxy for the number of people that view HN. Probably 1/10th the viewers clicked the link. The link is at about 6k views in 2 hours. Kind of mindblowing how much viewership a toplevel comment gets, especially compared to the number of upvotes/downvotes.

by toufka 11y ago

qrybam 11y ago

Tell me about it - never thought I'd be this excited about something landing on a floating platform!

dtparr 11y ago

Yeah, at least this time we expected that to happen. (SpaceX webcast guy indicated the rocket shakes the uplink dish so hard on approach it's likely to lose signal every time).

daeken 11y ago
I do wonder why they don't have a separate small barge with a couple fiber runs between them, to do the comms (e.g. host the dish(es)). I guess it just isn't that important.
- dtparr 11y ago
  That was asked on the spacex sub-reddit. The response was something like "you underestimate the power of a Merlin" which I took to mean that a reasonable distance to avoid the effects is too far to reasonably run ship-to-ship cabling.
  - daeken 11y ago
    That's totally reasonable, too. I had assumed that the wash from the rocket would be largely straight down, but that's probably way wrong.
    - igjeff 11y ago
      It is probably pretty much straight down...until it impacts the flat surface of the ship.
  - mark-r 11y ago
    Fiber optic cable is relatively light weight and strong for the bandwidth it supplies. This seems like a cop-out.
    - spdustin 11y ago
      I'm sorry, but is it possible that the literal rocket scientists have given it more thought than you've given it credit for? I've only been posting here for a bit over a year. Has HN always had an issue with these sorts of pragmatic speech mis-queues where one posits that the experts are not aware of some painfully obvious solution? I find it to be condescending, but I'm not sure that such commenters realize it, and so I struggle with pointing it out - in case they didn't honestly realize the issue - or keeping my mouth shut, thereby avoiding potential conflict with someone who either can't be swayed or may actually be smarter than the group whose collective knowledge is being challenged. EDIT: I asked a legitimate question. Down votes don't teach people who want to learn, people.
      - mark-r 11y ago
        Sorry, I don't know who gave you the downvote - it wasn't me. It does seem to me that the rocket scientists would have had their hands full with all the other issues around the launch and recovery. My guess is that the live feed isn't a priority for them, knowing that they can get what they need after the fact.
        niels_olson 11y ago
        Probably the naval architects who designed the barge are well-aware of underway replenishment procedures and know perfectly well how to connect two vessels underway. And probably asked the rocket scientists about some of these issues before drawing up the barge. Because, selling an unrep solution is going to cover a really nice year end bonus. The raw steel would cost more than half your lifetime earnings.
      - Dylan16807 11y ago
        >I asked a legitimate question. Down votes don't teach people who want to learn, people. When "have you guys always screwed up this way" is your only non-rhetorical question, I call shenanigans on intent to learn. You solidly earned that downvote by being so patronizing. That said, it's very easy for a solution to be both painfully obvious and at the same time not worth the effort. The rocket scientist is busy doing rocket science. If they give a flippant answer, it's okay to point out that the answer is flippant. It's not condescending. It doesn't imply they are "not aware" of the solution. They simply lack infinite spare time to implement every solution to everything.
- bsaul 11y ago
  Or just a flying army-like drone that would point to the barge, flying from a distance ?
  - baq 11y ago
    this is a no-no unless you get some serious telephoto hardware so you can get a good image from outside the no-fly zone. which has been done when the landing was happening in the daytime; not sure if the aircraft was manned, but there are aerial movies of a past failed attempt.
rbanffy 11y ago
It would make sense to record it in high quality while streaming lower bandwidth signals and, as soon as possible, send the original recording through the uplink.

dz0ny 11y ago

http://i.imgur.com/3HCnn7c.png http://i.imgur.com/3HCnn7c.png

stcredzero 11y ago

They need a bigger barge with more powerful station-keeping, and a dynamically stabilized hydraulic landing platform. (Along with a gimbal-stabilized uplink dish.)

mikeash 11y ago
I don't think any of the landing crashes so far have been due to the barge's size or movement. It's always been problems with the rocket, not the barge.
- stcredzero 11y ago
  You're probably right. If they needed that stuff they'd probably build it. But I bet that what I suggest would result in being able to land in rougher weather with better media from 1st stage landings.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    I imagine so. I'm not sure how much they care about the satellite feed, but handling rough weather would definitely be a plus. There was already one landing attempt that they had to give up on because weather was good at the launch site but bad out at sea.
- m_mueller 11y ago
  It's hard to tell really. If the barge was bigger it basically means more leanient constraints for the final approach, which could result in a softer landing. Remember that Falcons can't hover and thus have to achieve perfect timing for the final burn. If you constrain time down to almost zero and space down to a few meters and the initial velocity is terminal velocity + pretty fast horicontal movement, it's almost a wonder that they're already doing what they're doing.
  - Coincoin 11y ago
    Last time it effectively landed correctly in pretty rough conditions. The only problem was a landing leg did not lock because of ice and the stage was lost.

ChuckMcM 11y ago

While I'm sure there are a number of people who are really interested in the SES-9 success, I was really hoping to see a water landing. I continue to be amazed at how difficult it appears to be to get a reliable signal from an unmanned boat out in the Atlantic back to land.

mikeash 11y ago
It looks like getting a signal in normal circumstances is doable, but problems occur when a 200ft rocket shows up wanting to make friends.
- wolf550e 11y ago
  Lots of motion in the frame -> high bandwidth requirements.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    That might cause the video to go funky, but it shouldn't cut the feed. My guess is that the satellite dish or other communications hardware gets upset when the first stage effectively takes a flamethrower to it.
    - robszumski 11y ago
      The issue is vibration which throws the uplink out of alignment with the receiver.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - NickNameNick 11y ago
      Or just shakes it a lot.
    - ChuckMcM 11y ago
      Seems a likely explanation. Its the engineer in my that goes wild here though, I think "why not have the uplink on a smaller flotation unit being held in place by a sea anchor? Or given the amount of time needed to monitor the return is relatively short (you know to the minute when it "should" touch down) could you launch the uplink on a hex a copter so that it could stand off from the barge, free of vibrations while the rocket landed? How about a 2.4Ghz cross link to an independent platform with its own uplink? How about using a towed fiber optic cable to a remote relay station away from the barge? Etc. I totally understand that this is a small (and in the larger picture unimportant) part of the mission, but the problem calls to me :-)

agumonkey 11y ago

I just love SpaceX skill in quantum mechanics http://imgur.com/StUjcAc http://imgur.com/StUjcAc Maybe, maybe not

samstave 11y ago

Why arent there literally hundreds of GOPRO cams on the droneship? I mean they can make a robotic rocket and sea-based-landing platform, but they cant take good video with $100 cameras? Why are all vids cut off as if it was some lame redditor's crappy gif repost? Edit: I was clearly misinformed. My question was bad and I feel as.

ceejayoz 11y ago
They have GoPros all over, and they usually release video afterwards from them. The problem is not the cameras, it's the uplink. Turns out cellular signals aren't so strong several hundred miles out to sea, and satellite uplinks are a bit iffy when your dish is being vibrated by a rocket.
- samstave 11y ago
  Ah, well I was interested in longer content even delayed by days...
dtparr 11y ago
The problem as I understand it is not the cameras, as we generally get footage later. It's that whole "bandwidth" thing when you're 600km out to sea and a 14 story rocket comes flying in and messes up your satellite uplink.

sillysaurus3 11y ago

I like how your imgur post is a proxy for the number of people that view HN. Probably 1/10th the viewers clicked the link. The link is at about 6k views in 2 hours. Kind of mindblowing how much viewership a toplevel comment gets, especially compared to the number of upvotes/downvotes.