3 ms·

The actual, demonstrable amount of misogyny in gaming stupendously, overwhelmingly dwarfs the even theoretical number of satanists or mass shooters in gaming. H

by rosser 11y ago

The actual, demonstrable amount of misogyny in gaming stupendously, overwhelmingly dwarfs the even theoretical number of satanists or mass shooters in gaming. Hell, the amount of misogyny in gaming probably dwarfs the number of satanists or mass shooters in the entire world.

exstudent2 11y ago
Do you have links to where this is demonstrated?
user585803945 11y ago
Spoken with absolutely zero shred of credibility or proof behind it, just a bold assertion to virtue signal to others. You're so cool.
- rosser 11y ago
  There's some pretty fierce irony in using a throwaway created just to make this comment to question someone's credibility. (Account created one minute before the parent — so far, its only — comment was posted.)
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- copperx 11y ago
  I've never heard of SPORT before, what kind of game is it?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
baldfat 11y ago
Girlfriend Mode in Borderlands 2: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Girlfriend_mode http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Girlfriend_mode
- exstudent2 11y ago
  This looks like market segmentation and not misogyny. If the known market for Borderlands is mostly male and some large percentage of those males have a girlfriend, it only makes sense to try to attract that segment to the product. Actually it seems quite the opposite of sexism since they're deliberately trying to make the game more accessible to women. Note this does not mean women are worse at first person shooters, it just means that the game is currently designed for "experts" and there's an adjacent segment that gets exposure to the game via watching their partner play. "Girlfriend mode" is an attempt to reach that segment. Having a "boyfriend zone" in a women's clothing store would be analogous and also not sexist.
Zikes 11y ago
Since your statement is overly broad, I'll address the probable root as online harassment. First, men are more likely to receive any form of harassment online, while women are more likely to receive harassment in the form of sexual threats or stalking: http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/pi_2014-10-22__online-harassment-03/ http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/pi_2... This is widely believed to be because each form of harassment is specifically targeted to have the maximum effect on the victim. Women are more generally upset by sexual harassment, men are generally more upset by emasculation. Second, the reason the media narrative seems skewed in the opposite direction is because women are generally more likely to be upset by harassment: http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/pi_2014-10-22__online-harassment-15/ http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/pi_2... But neither of those studies are particularly important, because "gaming" is a market so huge that it basically encompasses the entire population, or at least a significant enough portion that any truthful statements that could be made about "gamers" would likely hold equally true of the superset. Overly broad statements such as yours actually hinder the cause of preventing the above issues, as it denies the existence of healthy and positive women gamers. By getting an accurate picture of harassment in general and how to address it we can more effectively treat it, but painting the whole issue as "because men hate women" is an uninformed appeal to emotion and overly defeatist. It implies that the problem is either unsolvable or only solved by removing men entirely.
rustynails 11y ago
It's funny you should say that. When I was young, I played dungeons and dragons (the board game). I remember how this campaign ostracised people who wanted to play. In particular, girls were very vicious with the insults about being a freak (to all of us that played). I would compare the stigma to those that liked computers. I can't think of a single girl who liked either d&d or computers in the 70s or 80s (my wife tells me she started in computing in the 80s though and I don't doubt her). Strangely, supposedly, revisionist reality is the opposite - girls were driven away by mean men (it's revisionist history, but misogyny is the buzzword of the new century and truth be damned). I'm glad misogyny was mentioned because my life experience was the exact opposite. However, I enjoyed these pursuits and no amount of bullying stopped me. The attitudes have changed so much today and not for the better.
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  I'm sorry that there were mean girls in your childhood. I'm not sure why you think your experience disproves the experiences of thousands and thousands of other people, though. Edit: Not sure why I'm getting more than one downvote here. For example, my gaming group in college was about 1/3 women, and they got along fine with the men, in both directions. I could follow rustynails' example and call him a liar and a revisionist for saying that he knew mean girls--but that would be a stupid and shortsighted thing to do, wouldn't it? There are all kinds of people in the world; you don't get to claim that the ones in your little circle are the only prototype for all the rest, for better or worse.
  - adekok 11y ago
    > Not sure why I'm getting more than one downvote here. Not from me, but I might explain. > I'm not sure why you think your experience disproves the experiences of thousands and thousands of other people, though. [ citation needed ] A youtuber by the name of Sargon of Akkad had a guest on his show talk about her experiences with online hate after she gave a public talk. The following link is to about 32:00 in: https://youtu.be/D_Rmbmc1BH8?t=1910 https://youtu.be/D_Rmbmc1BH8?t=1910 She explains how terribly misogynistic everyone has been. He explains why those insults are gendered: because that works as an insult. Men get different insults than women do. The people claiming "the internet is misogynistic" largely seem to ignore insults directed at men, and talk loudly about the insults directed at women. She later explains how she gets death threats, and this is an example of online misogyny. He explains slowly that he gets death threats, too. Her response is that she's clearly shocked. She's never for one second thought that anyone else might be having problems on the net. Just that she's having issues, therefore it's personal, and it's only her (and people like her). It's an astonishing admission to make publicly. That everyone else on the net is so unimportant as to be not worth human empathy, or even 30 seconds of rational thought. That's why every time I hear "the internet is evil towards X", I have to ask "Oh? And how is everyone else treated?" Usually the response is "Uh.. I don't know". Or, as another comment here shows... studies demonstrate that the sex which gets the most death threats, hateful comments, etc. is not women. It's men. Heck, I've had death threats online. Do I go to sleep worrying about it? No. The people involved are cheap losers who live thousands of miles from me. They can muster up the hate to issue death threats online. They can't muster up the wherewithall to book a bus ticket to my home and ring my doorbell. The solution to feelings of powerlessness is to give people power. Not to control the majorities speech because a small number of losers are assholes online. Teach people how to deal with assholes, and they're less afraid. Teach people to be afraid, and they'll demand that we "safe space" the world in order to assuage their fears.

by rosser 11y ago

exstudent2 11y ago

Do you have links to where this is demonstrated?

user585803945 11y ago

Spoken with absolutely zero shred of credibility or proof behind it, just a bold assertion to virtue signal to others. You're so cool.

rosser 11y ago
There's some pretty fierce irony in using a throwaway created just to make this comment to question someone's credibility. (Account created one minute before the parent — so far, its only — comment was posted.)
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

copperx 11y ago
I've never heard of SPORT before, what kind of game is it?

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

baldfat 11y ago

Girlfriend Mode in Borderlands 2: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Girlfriend_mode http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Girlfriend_mode

exstudent2 11y ago
This looks like market segmentation and not misogyny. If the known market for Borderlands is mostly male and some large percentage of those males have a girlfriend, it only makes sense to try to attract that segment to the product. Actually it seems quite the opposite of sexism since they're deliberately trying to make the game more accessible to women. Note this does not mean women are worse at first person shooters, it just means that the game is currently designed for "experts" and there's an adjacent segment that gets exposure to the game via watching their partner play. "Girlfriend mode" is an attempt to reach that segment. Having a "boyfriend zone" in a women's clothing store would be analogous and also not sexist.

Zikes 11y ago

Since your statement is overly broad, I'll address the probable root as online harassment. First, men are more likely to receive any form of harassment online, while women are more likely to receive harassment in the form of sexual threats or stalking: http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/pi_2014-10-22__online-harassment-03/ http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/pi_2... This is widely believed to be because each form of harassment is specifically targeted to have the maximum effect on the victim. Women are more generally upset by sexual harassment, men are generally more upset by emasculation. Second, the reason the media narrative seems skewed in the opposite direction is because women are generally more likely to be upset by harassment: http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/pi_2014-10-22__online-harassment-15/ http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/pi_2... But neither of those studies are particularly important, because "gaming" is a market so huge that it basically encompasses the entire population, or at least a significant enough portion that any truthful statements that could be made about "gamers" would likely hold equally true of the superset. Overly broad statements such as yours actually hinder the cause of preventing the above issues, as it denies the existence of healthy and positive women gamers. By getting an accurate picture of harassment in general and how to address it we can more effectively treat it, but painting the whole issue as "because men hate women" is an uninformed appeal to emotion and overly defeatist. It implies that the problem is either unsolvable or only solved by removing men entirely.

rustynails 11y ago

It's funny you should say that. When I was young, I played dungeons and dragons (the board game). I remember how this campaign ostracised people who wanted to play. In particular, girls were very vicious with the insults about being a freak (to all of us that played). I would compare the stigma to those that liked computers. I can't think of a single girl who liked either d&d or computers in the 70s or 80s (my wife tells me she started in computing in the 80s though and I don't doubt her). Strangely, supposedly, revisionist reality is the opposite - girls were driven away by mean men (it's revisionist history, but misogyny is the buzzword of the new century and truth be damned). I'm glad misogyny was mentioned because my life experience was the exact opposite. However, I enjoyed these pursuits and no amount of bullying stopped me. The attitudes have changed so much today and not for the better.

PhasmaFelis 11y ago
I'm sorry that there were mean girls in your childhood. I'm not sure why you think your experience disproves the experiences of thousands and thousands of other people, though. Edit: Not sure why I'm getting more than one downvote here. For example, my gaming group in college was about 1/3 women, and they got along fine with the men, in both directions. I could follow rustynails' example and call him a liar and a revisionist for saying that he knew mean girls--but that would be a stupid and shortsighted thing to do, wouldn't it? There are all kinds of people in the world; you don't get to claim that the ones in your little circle are the only prototype for all the rest, for better or worse.
- adekok 11y ago
  > Not sure why I'm getting more than one downvote here. Not from me, but I might explain. > I'm not sure why you think your experience disproves the experiences of thousands and thousands of other people, though. [ citation needed ] A youtuber by the name of Sargon of Akkad had a guest on his show talk about her experiences with online hate after she gave a public talk. The following link is to about 32:00 in: https://youtu.be/D_Rmbmc1BH8?t=1910 https://youtu.be/D_Rmbmc1BH8?t=1910 She explains how terribly misogynistic everyone has been. He explains why those insults are gendered: because that works as an insult. Men get different insults than women do. The people claiming "the internet is misogynistic" largely seem to ignore insults directed at men, and talk loudly about the insults directed at women. She later explains how she gets death threats, and this is an example of online misogyny. He explains slowly that he gets death threats, too. Her response is that she's clearly shocked. She's never for one second thought that anyone else might be having problems on the net. Just that she's having issues, therefore it's personal, and it's only her (and people like her). It's an astonishing admission to make publicly. That everyone else on the net is so unimportant as to be not worth human empathy, or even 30 seconds of rational thought. That's why every time I hear "the internet is evil towards X", I have to ask "Oh? And how is everyone else treated?" Usually the response is "Uh.. I don't know". Or, as another comment here shows... studies demonstrate that the sex which gets the most death threats, hateful comments, etc. is not women. It's men. Heck, I've had death threats online. Do I go to sleep worrying about it? No. The people involved are cheap losers who live thousands of miles from me. They can muster up the hate to issue death threats online. They can't muster up the wherewithall to book a bus ticket to my home and ring my doorbell. The solution to feelings of powerlessness is to give people power. Not to control the majorities speech because a small number of losers are assholes online. Teach people how to deal with assholes, and they're less afraid. Teach people to be afraid, and they'll demand that we "safe space" the world in order to assuage their fears.