11 ms·

Meta2 AR Goggles, preorder at 949$

106 points by pierre 11y ago

hauget 11y ago
does anyone know the HW specs needed to develop and use apps for Meta2? UPDATE: HW requirements have been posted! Intel Iris Pro / NVIDIA GT 650M / AMD Radeon HD7970 (recommend NVIDIA GTX 960 / AMD 280 equivalent or greater) Intel i7-3610MQ equivalent or greater 8 GB RAM HDMI 1.4 video output 1x USB 3.0 ports Windows 8.1 or newer 64 bit Unity 5+ on Windows (for development, not end users) Intel HD compatible sound card USB 3.0. SOURCE: https://www.metavision.com/faq https://www.metavision.com/faq
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- strictnein 11y ago
  Good question, I was looking for the same information. Unfortunately their entire Dev area is behind a login screen and I see no way to register: https://www.metavision.com/devcenter https://www.metavision.com/devcenter
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- michaelbuckbee 11y ago
  At this point it's just "modern computer with Windows 8 or 10." from the bottom of the homepage.
- keller112 11y ago
  Why is the recommended AMD spec lower than the minimum?
geniium 11y ago
Who's behind these?
- pierre 11y ago
  Meta (YC S13)
monk_e_boy 11y ago
I thought I was all over VR and AR, how did this one sneak past the press?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
monk_e_boy 11y ago
Wow, it sure looks nerdy. I hope version 2 (or 3? Is meta 2 version 2?) is a bit more discrete. It must be bigger than a crash helmet!
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- BinaryIdiot 11y ago
  They're calling it a development version...what else would you expect but something you can prototype on?
mattnewport 11y ago
They make it sound like there's no native SDK, only a Unity SDK. That seems like a mistake if it's true. Unity it's great for prototyping and for certain kinds of applications but as a current VR and possibly future AR developer I want the option of a native SDK, not least for access to other engines like Unreal.
- hauget 11y ago
  There is an SDK. Unity is just the best way to get started with it right now. More info will be released later.
moron4hire 11y ago
90-degree field of view and 2560 x 1440 In other words, not a breakthrough in regards to the readability of text. I'm not saying text will be unreadable. I mean, I do run a project that has a significant text-editor component in VR, and I do this on the DK2, which is significantly lower resolution. But I think that also means I'm one of the most qualified people to say that it's not going to be "like unlimited monitor space". For the application support they are touting, this is going to be a bit like the old 800x600 days. Now, we certainly got work done in that time. And for a variety of reasons, the perceived resolution of text is higher than the actual resolution in an HMD, but it's maybe only a factor of 2. You're not going to be replacing your office with this device. We just aren't there yet. I'm working towards that day, and I think the work needs to be done now to be prepared for that day. But we aren't there yet. Given that VR is already pretty taxing on modern, top-of-the-line hardware, I'm personally waiting until at least the next generation for an AR device.
- monk_e_boy 11y ago
  Is this because they are using projector screens to display the image? What would stop them using rgb lasers to display vector graphics?
  - moron4hire 11y ago
    No, it's because 90 degree FOV is just not that much and the resolution is not high enough for even that FOV to make for invisible pixels. I don't think we need to have completely invisible pixels to be productive in VR text work, but it will definitely be a completely different day when that is available. For now, this is "better than DK2", but not "better than GearVR". It's a step forward, but not objectively great yet. The fact that all of the 3D acceleration hardware we have today is built for raster graphics, not vector graphics. Filling fields with a vector display is extremely expensive. There's a reason they died out for most uses.
    - monk_e_boy 11y ago
      Oh man, hybrid system of raster through LCD and vector using rgb lasers. I called it.
tdhz77 11y ago
I read AR googles... I was so excited. But once again, Meta is awesome too.
tdhz77 11y ago
I read AR googles... I was so excited. But once again, Meta is awesome too.
andy_ppp 11y ago
I loved everything about it until I saw this image and then I literally laughed out loud. I think the "you look ridiculous" factor is even higher than VR... Imagine going to a meeting with this on! https://d3mzncm6cj8c3y.cloudfront.net/assets/pages/home/side6-6fec4768d05497994e522a055db9ac34d8ab1470c3704f8401030a7fca40e705.jpg https://d3mzncm6cj8c3y.cloudfront.net/assets/pages/home/side...
- hauget 11y ago
  It's a prototype for crying out loud. It's not meant to be a consumer device and it's not being advertised as one. Get off your high horse mate.
  - andy_ppp 11y ago
    I'm not on a horse. Their website is extremely glossy and it's version 2 apparently; fair enough if you say it's not a consumer device. I feel like the looking ridiculous factor is a perfectly reasonable fear to have and a big reason why I wouldn't buy it. Downvote away but it's a reasonable stance to take IMO and this clearly suffers from it more than VR.
    - roblabla 11y ago
      Development Kit, not "release". This is the second prototype aimed at developers. And a glossy site doesn't mean the product is released :|. Besides, while it is a fair point to make, people using cell phones looked ridiculous back in the days. And yet everyone has a cell phone now. I don't think the ridiculous-factor will be a major blocker if the benefits of the device outbalance it.
- jraines 11y ago
  I guess you can hold out for contacts or an eyeglasses form-factor, but I can't really wrap my head around a technology enthusiast thinking "I'd love for my sensory perception of reality to transcend the physical world, but I don't want to look like a dang nerd." And even if that's the case, it looks pretty sleek & sci-fi IMO
dovdov 11y ago
As I see these headsets, I have a feeling that these should have been the tech of the '90s. As they were, actually. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuality_(gaming) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuality_(gaming)
- moron4hire 11y ago
  each contain two LCD screens at resolutions of 276x372 each Yup, that's exactly the same thing.
kriro 11y ago
The interaction with the objects looks interesting and is something I haven't seen in similar product videos. Good content is obviously key but there should be some immediate use cases for business settings where you can sell development of the needed content (consumer, not so sure the content "needs to be there"). Ships Q3, I'll see if I can convince someone to get at least one for our HCI labs.
- hauget 11y ago
  There's a TED video being released later today in parallel to the pre-order launch. That should provide some use cases ;)
  - hauget 11y ago
    EDIT: looks like it didn't go up today on TED, but I think it will possibly be up later during the week.
fiveSpeedManual 11y ago
I used to work at Meta while they were located in Portola Valley. Meta "applications" are highly customized Unity 3D scenes with a generous amount of custom GUI elements. I would take everything in this video with a grain of salt. Also, Meta has a terrible habit of copying logos. Their old logo was a blatant copy of MIT's "M" and their latest is eerily similar to Mazda's "M" series logo http://www.miata.net/faq/mfield_files/image004.jpg http://www.miata.net/faq/mfield_files/image004.jpg
- obsurveyor 11y ago
  > Also, Meta has a terrible habit of copying logos. Their old logo was a blatant copy of MIT's "M" and their latest is eerily similar to Mazda's "M" series logo Not really disagreeing since you have more experience with them than I do but if you asked me to write a cursive M, it would probably come out pretty much the same as both. It's like the laziest logo.
- Negative1 11y ago
  Indeed about the logo. Is this by direction or just uncreative logo artist? Saw the 'cribs' thing about them a while ago and I thought the setup it was interesting but my Wife commented on the 'cult' vibe. What was it like living and working there?
  - trsohmers 11y ago
    Here's the video that he is referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PNgRzHzKUA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PNgRzHzKUA I visited Meta (they were trying to recruit me) about 2 weeks after they moved in there... I won't comment on what I saw there, or my thoughts on Meta, but I will say I take all augmented reality claims with a huge grain of salt. I would say that Meron purposefully is trying to form a cult of personality, and while it may be respected as a Steve Jobs-esque thing in the Valley, it is personally a turn off for me. Funny thing is that the Portola Valley property is now rented out to a friend of mine, which is subleasing it out to tenants... The TechCrunch video really doesn't do it justice in terms of size, and sadly all but one of the tanks are gone. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/roo/5464646558.html http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/roo/5464646558.html
orliesaurus 11y ago
Came in thinking I read Google, left disappointed.
spyder 11y ago
Looks better than HoloLens and props for showing the actual footage trough the headset and not just some misleading illustration like Microsoft did, but the tracking needs some improvement because it looks annoyingly laggy and I cannot imagine using it for anything serious for a longer time.
- adam12 11y ago
  I don't like how everything looks transparent.
  - tcfunk 11y ago
    Yeah I don't much care for that either. I'm guessing it's a byproduct of the screen being basically a piece of transparent glass as opposed to an actual "screen" or whatever.
  - terryf 11y ago
    This, of course, is the biggest problem with AR tech - you can only "add" light, not "subtract" it - meaning you can only make pixels brighter than they are, not darker. Essentially this will be unusable in bright daylight. Notice how all the promo videos are filmed in fairly dark rooms.
  - cornellwright 11y ago
    Projecting black is currently an open problem in AR right now. (Though Magic Leap's videos seem to indicate they've solved it. I'm still skeptical though.)
- eggy 11y ago
  I was impressed that the footage was from iPhone pressed against the headset to get that video. I wonder if some of the jumpiness or supposed tracking is due to handling the headset/iPhone, and maybe some scan rate 'moire' patterns or other artifacts due to a video-of-a-video?
kohanz 11y ago
I just got approved for a HoloLens dev kit (like everyone else and their dog who applied) at $3000. This looks like a very similar product for 1/3rd of the price. I wonder what the differences are.
- subspaceman 11y ago
  The first I can see is that the hololens is self contained (no wires to computer), where this looks like its tethered to a computer edit: and the FOV looks way bigger on the meta than the hololens
- jonknee 11y ago
  One is backed by one of the largest companies in the world and another is a startup. You'll definitely get your HoloLens, but you may not get your Meta 2 (scheduled in Q3 2016, but you know how that goes). Competition is great though, hopefully they will push each other.
- bryanlarsen 11y ago
  Yes, seems like a tough field to be in. You're up against not just HoloLens, but Magic Leap, which appears to be even scarier competition. Good luck to them, though.
snomad 11y ago
Does anyone have a good comparison chart of Oculus, Vive, Hololens, and Meta? Looking for SDK and hardware comparisons.
amelius 11y ago
What I'm really looking forward to is a virtual desktop, where I can work on a tropical beach with a very large high-res monitor in front of me (virtually). But it seems that the resolution of the current VR goggles is not sufficient :/ This seems a bit weird given that "retina" displays are already quite mainstream.
- drcode 11y ago
  The kind of display you're looking for is going to need a pixel count far, far beyond "retina" displays, given the large field of vision.
  - amelius 11y ago
    The high resolution needs to be only at the center of the field of vision. Outside the center, low res will do fine.
    - garblegarble 11y ago
      >The high resolution needs to be only at the center of the field of vision. Outside the center, low res will do fine. It sounds like you're describing foveated rendering[1] which requires that the headset also track where your eyes are looking, not just the direction of your head. It's a very exciting possible future direction for VR/AR but I think it's still a bit off (and likely still requires very high resolution miniaturised display for the foreseeable future) [1] http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-smi-proves-that-foveated-rendering-is-here-and-it-really-works/ http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-smi-proves-that-foveated-re...
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > The high resolution needs to be only at the center of the field of vision. Outside the center, low res will do fine. The problem with that idea for goggles is that the "field of vision" doesn't have a fixed center relative to the display, because eyes can move independently of the head (and do in normal human interaction with the environment.)
dammitcoetzee 11y ago
Looks like half their staff is made of vice presidents. https://www.metavision.com/join-meta https://www.metavision.com/join-meta Maybe they're running the leanest of lean operations, but given the challenge of actually making hardware, I'm not certain anyone will see a working version of this until the second Hololens is out.
- grok2 11y ago
  They have Steve Mann (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Mann https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Mann) -- the original "Google-kinda-glasses" guy -- as a "Chief Scientist"...
  - gene-h 11y ago
    So will we finally get the eyetap?
- bpicolo 11y ago
  To be fair, Steve Mann on board is a pretty big deal
  - bravo22 11y ago
    I've met Steve and worked on a project he was involved with. I'm curious why you think it is a pretty big deal that he is involved?
    - bpicolo 11y ago
      From my understanding, he's a long-term supporter and researcher in the field, no? Seems he's been using AR daily for a long time now.
      - bravo22 11y ago
        He definitely is. However, I wouldn't consider it a plus or a minus. It is in my view neutral. His research doesn't involve the specific problems that Meta would need to solve nor is he a product design expert. I'm not knocking the guy. I just don't see his involvement as adding much to the project beyond the name recognition.
trunnell 11y ago
Doing the math to compare resolution to the Hololens... Hololens has "2.5K radiants," where a radiant is a "light point per radian." [1] A radian is ~57.3 degrees, so 2500/57.3 = 44 pixels per degree. Meta has a "2560x1440 display with a 90 degree field of view." Horizontally, that's 2560/90 = 28.4 pixels per degree. Having used the Hololens for 30 minutes at Build last year, the field of view was definitely less than 90 degrees. However, the tracking was perfect, there was no lag, and generally speaking the illusion was complete. Watching the video at the top of metavision.com, it's hard to get a good impression-- some shots look like they pointed a video camera through the Meta glasses!? The frame rate is noticeably low and the gestures look like they... sort of work. Both headsets' problems seem fixable-- Meta will presumably fix the lag and gesture accuracy (assuming those weaknesses in the video are real). And Hololens will presumably get a larger field of view with later hardware revs. To me it'd be a mistake to dismiss these systems as not being ready. It probably won't be a long wait. [1] https://dev.windows.com/en-us/holographic/hardware_details https://dev.windows.com/en-us/holographic/hardware_details
tdubhro1 11y ago
I went straight to the video and about 1 minute in I was sure it was some kind of college humor parody. I guess startups are under a lot of pressure to conform to type expectations and PR companies will make them look a certain way in these promo videos, but seriously, it's so extreme now that it's just laughable. The head of engineering was the only normal person in the video. To make something like this there must be a core group of hardcore engineers, and I can't help but imagine them collectively eye-rolling in the face of all the vice presidents with their perfectly tousled hairstyles and oh-so emphatic TED-talk styled speech.
- SNvD7vEJ 11y ago
  Exactly. Also found on their site: "direct hand interaction with holograms" "grab and move holograms just like physical objects" "Holograms"? Really?! Marketing BS
kayoone 11y ago
I watched a Video interview by Robert Scoble with the Meta CEO and they talked to a developer who actually used this as a monitor replacement to write code. Pretty interesting, but i still doubt the resolution is enough to really replace monitors yet, but the premise is very interesting. From what i understand their implementation looks similar to an effect called "Pepper's Ghost" just in a mobile form. I have seen this done using smartphones and some plexiglass but in a static form.
- ryandamm 11y ago
  Plus object tracking in the real world, and head tracking, so the ghost looks like it's embedded in space and you can move around it. Huge difference in how it feels to the user, but yes, pepper's ghost.
kronholm 11y ago
Is this the same company that was at http://meta.io http://meta.io ?
- cornellwright 11y ago
  Yes.
- michaelbuckbee 11y ago
  No, Meta Vision is a YC startup doing the headsets you see on their site. Metaio was doing AR for phones and things (and I think were bought by Apple).
trsohmers 11y ago
One interesting thing, Meta is being accused of stealing the designs from other startup: http://augmentl.io/ar-manufacturer-meta-being-accused-of-stealing-designs/ http://augmentl.io/ar-manufacturer-meta-being-accused-of-ste...
benlower 11y ago
Cool to see another company in the AR space! However, their videos that say "actual footage" make the holograms look jumpy and the worry is that could lead to fatigue or nausea. Has anyone tried one of these?

106 points by pierre 11y ago

does anyone know the HW specs needed to develop and use apps for Meta2? UPDATE: HW requirements have been posted! Intel Iris Pro / NVIDIA GT 650M / AMD Radeon HD7970 (recommend NVIDIA GTX 960 / AMD 280 equivalent or greater) Intel i7-3610MQ equivalent or greater 8 GB RAM HDMI 1.4 video output 1x USB 3.0 ports Windows 8.1 or newer 64 bit Unity 5+ on Windows (for development, not end users) Intel HD compatible sound card USB 3.0. SOURCE: https://www.metavision.com/faq https://www.metavision.com/faq

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
strictnein 11y ago
Good question, I was looking for the same information. Unfortunately their entire Dev area is behind a login screen and I see no way to register: https://www.metavision.com/devcenter https://www.metavision.com/devcenter
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
michaelbuckbee 11y ago
At this point it's just "modern computer with Windows 8 or 10." from the bottom of the homepage.
keller112 11y ago
Why is the recommended AMD spec lower than the minimum?

geniium 11y ago

Who's behind these?

pierre 11y ago
Meta (YC S13)

monk_e_boy 11y ago

I thought I was all over VR and AR, how did this one sneak past the press?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

monk_e_boy 11y ago

Wow, it sure looks nerdy. I hope version 2 (or 3? Is meta 2 version 2?) is a bit more discrete. It must be bigger than a crash helmet!

deleted 11y ago
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BinaryIdiot 11y ago
They're calling it a development version...what else would you expect but something you can prototype on?

mattnewport 11y ago

They make it sound like there's no native SDK, only a Unity SDK. That seems like a mistake if it's true. Unity it's great for prototyping and for certain kinds of applications but as a current VR and possibly future AR developer I want the option of a native SDK, not least for access to other engines like Unreal.

hauget 11y ago
There is an SDK. Unity is just the best way to get started with it right now. More info will be released later.

moron4hire 11y ago

90-degree field of view and 2560 x 1440 In other words, not a breakthrough in regards to the readability of text. I'm not saying text will be unreadable. I mean, I do run a project that has a significant text-editor component in VR, and I do this on the DK2, which is significantly lower resolution. But I think that also means I'm one of the most qualified people to say that it's not going to be "like unlimited monitor space". For the application support they are touting, this is going to be a bit like the old 800x600 days. Now, we certainly got work done in that time. And for a variety of reasons, the perceived resolution of text is higher than the actual resolution in an HMD, but it's maybe only a factor of 2. You're not going to be replacing your office with this device. We just aren't there yet. I'm working towards that day, and I think the work needs to be done now to be prepared for that day. But we aren't there yet. Given that VR is already pretty taxing on modern, top-of-the-line hardware, I'm personally waiting until at least the next generation for an AR device.

monk_e_boy 11y ago
Is this because they are using projector screens to display the image? What would stop them using rgb lasers to display vector graphics?
- moron4hire 11y ago
  No, it's because 90 degree FOV is just not that much and the resolution is not high enough for even that FOV to make for invisible pixels. I don't think we need to have completely invisible pixels to be productive in VR text work, but it will definitely be a completely different day when that is available. For now, this is "better than DK2", but not "better than GearVR". It's a step forward, but not objectively great yet. The fact that all of the 3D acceleration hardware we have today is built for raster graphics, not vector graphics. Filling fields with a vector display is extremely expensive. There's a reason they died out for most uses.
  - monk_e_boy 11y ago
    Oh man, hybrid system of raster through LCD and vector using rgb lasers. I called it.

tdhz77 11y ago

I read AR googles... I was so excited. But once again, Meta is awesome too.

tdhz77 11y ago

I read AR googles... I was so excited. But once again, Meta is awesome too.

andy_ppp 11y ago

I loved everything about it until I saw this image and then I literally laughed out loud. I think the "you look ridiculous" factor is even higher than VR... Imagine going to a meeting with this on! https://d3mzncm6cj8c3y.cloudfront.net/assets/pages/home/side6-6fec4768d05497994e522a055db9ac34d8ab1470c3704f8401030a7fca40e705.jpg https://d3mzncm6cj8c3y.cloudfront.net/assets/pages/home/side...

hauget 11y ago
It's a prototype for crying out loud. It's not meant to be a consumer device and it's not being advertised as one. Get off your high horse mate.
- andy_ppp 11y ago
  I'm not on a horse. Their website is extremely glossy and it's version 2 apparently; fair enough if you say it's not a consumer device. I feel like the looking ridiculous factor is a perfectly reasonable fear to have and a big reason why I wouldn't buy it. Downvote away but it's a reasonable stance to take IMO and this clearly suffers from it more than VR.
  - roblabla 11y ago
    Development Kit, not "release". This is the second prototype aimed at developers. And a glossy site doesn't mean the product is released :|. Besides, while it is a fair point to make, people using cell phones looked ridiculous back in the days. And yet everyone has a cell phone now. I don't think the ridiculous-factor will be a major blocker if the benefits of the device outbalance it.
jraines 11y ago
I guess you can hold out for contacts or an eyeglasses form-factor, but I can't really wrap my head around a technology enthusiast thinking "I'd love for my sensory perception of reality to transcend the physical world, but I don't want to look like a dang nerd." And even if that's the case, it looks pretty sleek & sci-fi IMO

dovdov 11y ago

As I see these headsets, I have a feeling that these should have been the tech of the '90s. As they were, actually. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuality_(gaming) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuality_(gaming)

moron4hire 11y ago
each contain two LCD screens at resolutions of 276x372 each Yup, that's exactly the same thing.

kriro 11y ago

The interaction with the objects looks interesting and is something I haven't seen in similar product videos. Good content is obviously key but there should be some immediate use cases for business settings where you can sell development of the needed content (consumer, not so sure the content "needs to be there"). Ships Q3, I'll see if I can convince someone to get at least one for our HCI labs.

hauget 11y ago
There's a TED video being released later today in parallel to the pre-order launch. That should provide some use cases ;)
- hauget 11y ago
  EDIT: looks like it didn't go up today on TED, but I think it will possibly be up later during the week.

fiveSpeedManual 11y ago

I used to work at Meta while they were located in Portola Valley. Meta "applications" are highly customized Unity 3D scenes with a generous amount of custom GUI elements. I would take everything in this video with a grain of salt. Also, Meta has a terrible habit of copying logos. Their old logo was a blatant copy of MIT's "M" and their latest is eerily similar to Mazda's "M" series logo http://www.miata.net/faq/mfield_files/image004.jpg http://www.miata.net/faq/mfield_files/image004.jpg

obsurveyor 11y ago
> Also, Meta has a terrible habit of copying logos. Their old logo was a blatant copy of MIT's "M" and their latest is eerily similar to Mazda's "M" series logo Not really disagreeing since you have more experience with them than I do but if you asked me to write a cursive M, it would probably come out pretty much the same as both. It's like the laziest logo.
Negative1 11y ago
Indeed about the logo. Is this by direction or just uncreative logo artist? Saw the 'cribs' thing about them a while ago and I thought the setup it was interesting but my Wife commented on the 'cult' vibe. What was it like living and working there?
- trsohmers 11y ago
  Here's the video that he is referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PNgRzHzKUA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PNgRzHzKUA I visited Meta (they were trying to recruit me) about 2 weeks after they moved in there... I won't comment on what I saw there, or my thoughts on Meta, but I will say I take all augmented reality claims with a huge grain of salt. I would say that Meron purposefully is trying to form a cult of personality, and while it may be respected as a Steve Jobs-esque thing in the Valley, it is personally a turn off for me. Funny thing is that the Portola Valley property is now rented out to a friend of mine, which is subleasing it out to tenants... The TechCrunch video really doesn't do it justice in terms of size, and sadly all but one of the tanks are gone. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/roo/5464646558.html http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/roo/5464646558.html

orliesaurus 11y ago

Came in thinking I read Google, left disappointed.

spyder 11y ago

Looks better than HoloLens and props for showing the actual footage trough the headset and not just some misleading illustration like Microsoft did, but the tracking needs some improvement because it looks annoyingly laggy and I cannot imagine using it for anything serious for a longer time.

adam12 11y ago
I don't like how everything looks transparent.
- tcfunk 11y ago
  Yeah I don't much care for that either. I'm guessing it's a byproduct of the screen being basically a piece of transparent glass as opposed to an actual "screen" or whatever.
- terryf 11y ago
  This, of course, is the biggest problem with AR tech - you can only "add" light, not "subtract" it - meaning you can only make pixels brighter than they are, not darker. Essentially this will be unusable in bright daylight. Notice how all the promo videos are filmed in fairly dark rooms.
- cornellwright 11y ago
  Projecting black is currently an open problem in AR right now. (Though Magic Leap's videos seem to indicate they've solved it. I'm still skeptical though.)
eggy 11y ago
I was impressed that the footage was from iPhone pressed against the headset to get that video. I wonder if some of the jumpiness or supposed tracking is due to handling the headset/iPhone, and maybe some scan rate 'moire' patterns or other artifacts due to a video-of-a-video?

kohanz 11y ago

I just got approved for a HoloLens dev kit (like everyone else and their dog who applied) at $3000. This looks like a very similar product for 1/3rd of the price. I wonder what the differences are.

subspaceman 11y ago
The first I can see is that the hololens is self contained (no wires to computer), where this looks like its tethered to a computer edit: and the FOV looks way bigger on the meta than the hololens
jonknee 11y ago
One is backed by one of the largest companies in the world and another is a startup. You'll definitely get your HoloLens, but you may not get your Meta 2 (scheduled in Q3 2016, but you know how that goes). Competition is great though, hopefully they will push each other.
bryanlarsen 11y ago
Yes, seems like a tough field to be in. You're up against not just HoloLens, but Magic Leap, which appears to be even scarier competition. Good luck to them, though.

snomad 11y ago

Does anyone have a good comparison chart of Oculus, Vive, Hololens, and Meta? Looking for SDK and hardware comparisons.

amelius 11y ago

What I'm really looking forward to is a virtual desktop, where I can work on a tropical beach with a very large high-res monitor in front of me (virtually). But it seems that the resolution of the current VR goggles is not sufficient :/ This seems a bit weird given that "retina" displays are already quite mainstream.

drcode 11y ago
The kind of display you're looking for is going to need a pixel count far, far beyond "retina" displays, given the large field of vision.
- amelius 11y ago
  The high resolution needs to be only at the center of the field of vision. Outside the center, low res will do fine.
  - garblegarble 11y ago
    >The high resolution needs to be only at the center of the field of vision. Outside the center, low res will do fine. It sounds like you're describing foveated rendering[1] which requires that the headset also track where your eyes are looking, not just the direction of your head. It's a very exciting possible future direction for VR/AR but I think it's still a bit off (and likely still requires very high resolution miniaturised display for the foreseeable future) [1] http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-smi-proves-that-foveated-rendering-is-here-and-it-really-works/ http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-smi-proves-that-foveated-re...
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > The high resolution needs to be only at the center of the field of vision. Outside the center, low res will do fine. The problem with that idea for goggles is that the "field of vision" doesn't have a fixed center relative to the display, because eyes can move independently of the head (and do in normal human interaction with the environment.)

dammitcoetzee 11y ago

Looks like half their staff is made of vice presidents. https://www.metavision.com/join-meta https://www.metavision.com/join-meta Maybe they're running the leanest of lean operations, but given the challenge of actually making hardware, I'm not certain anyone will see a working version of this until the second Hololens is out.

grok2 11y ago
They have Steve Mann (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Mann https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Mann) -- the original "Google-kinda-glasses" guy -- as a "Chief Scientist"...
- gene-h 11y ago
  So will we finally get the eyetap?
bpicolo 11y ago
To be fair, Steve Mann on board is a pretty big deal
- bravo22 11y ago
  I've met Steve and worked on a project he was involved with. I'm curious why you think it is a pretty big deal that he is involved?
  - bpicolo 11y ago
    From my understanding, he's a long-term supporter and researcher in the field, no? Seems he's been using AR daily for a long time now.
    - bravo22 11y ago
      He definitely is. However, I wouldn't consider it a plus or a minus. It is in my view neutral. His research doesn't involve the specific problems that Meta would need to solve nor is he a product design expert. I'm not knocking the guy. I just don't see his involvement as adding much to the project beyond the name recognition.

trunnell 11y ago

Doing the math to compare resolution to the Hololens... Hololens has "2.5K radiants," where a radiant is a "light point per radian." [1] A radian is ~57.3 degrees, so 2500/57.3 = 44 pixels per degree. Meta has a "2560x1440 display with a 90 degree field of view." Horizontally, that's 2560/90 = 28.4 pixels per degree. Having used the Hololens for 30 minutes at Build last year, the field of view was definitely less than 90 degrees. However, the tracking was perfect, there was no lag, and generally speaking the illusion was complete. Watching the video at the top of metavision.com, it's hard to get a good impression-- some shots look like they pointed a video camera through the Meta glasses!? The frame rate is noticeably low and the gestures look like they... sort of work. Both headsets' problems seem fixable-- Meta will presumably fix the lag and gesture accuracy (assuming those weaknesses in the video are real). And Hololens will presumably get a larger field of view with later hardware revs. To me it'd be a mistake to dismiss these systems as not being ready. It probably won't be a long wait. [1] https://dev.windows.com/en-us/holographic/hardware_details https://dev.windows.com/en-us/holographic/hardware_details

tdubhro1 11y ago

I went straight to the video and about 1 minute in I was sure it was some kind of college humor parody. I guess startups are under a lot of pressure to conform to type expectations and PR companies will make them look a certain way in these promo videos, but seriously, it's so extreme now that it's just laughable. The head of engineering was the only normal person in the video. To make something like this there must be a core group of hardcore engineers, and I can't help but imagine them collectively eye-rolling in the face of all the vice presidents with their perfectly tousled hairstyles and oh-so emphatic TED-talk styled speech.

SNvD7vEJ 11y ago
Exactly. Also found on their site: "direct hand interaction with holograms" "grab and move holograms just like physical objects" "Holograms"? Really?! Marketing BS

kayoone 11y ago

I watched a Video interview by Robert Scoble with the Meta CEO and they talked to a developer who actually used this as a monitor replacement to write code. Pretty interesting, but i still doubt the resolution is enough to really replace monitors yet, but the premise is very interesting. From what i understand their implementation looks similar to an effect called "Pepper's Ghost" just in a mobile form. I have seen this done using smartphones and some plexiglass but in a static form.

ryandamm 11y ago
Plus object tracking in the real world, and head tracking, so the ghost looks like it's embedded in space and you can move around it. Huge difference in how it feels to the user, but yes, pepper's ghost.

kronholm 11y ago

Is this the same company that was at http://meta.io http://meta.io ?

cornellwright 11y ago
Yes.
michaelbuckbee 11y ago
No, Meta Vision is a YC startup doing the headsets you see on their site. Metaio was doing AR for phones and things (and I think were bought by Apple).

trsohmers 11y ago

One interesting thing, Meta is being accused of stealing the designs from other startup: http://augmentl.io/ar-manufacturer-meta-being-accused-of-stealing-designs/ http://augmentl.io/ar-manufacturer-meta-being-accused-of-ste...

benlower 11y ago

Cool to see another company in the AR space! However, their videos that say "actual footage" make the holograms look jumpy and the worry is that could lead to fatigue or nausea. Has anyone tried one of these?