17 ms·

Why is Google allowing this popular app to violate so many Google Play rules?

211 points by chei0aiV 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
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- deleted 11y ago
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robhu 11y ago
What is the difference between the Apple process and the Google process such that Google has this problem and Apple does not? Or is this also a problem that occurs on the Apple store?
- Mahn 11y ago
  Google allows everything by default, and only takes down apps later if they become a problem, whereas Apple reviews everything that is published beforehand.
- venomsnake 11y ago
  Google approve everything and relies on stakeholders policing. Apple is black box which you should pray to not reject it for whatever reason and get incomprehensible rejection message in your mailbox.
  - zepto 11y ago
    Apple has a clear set of published guidelines - in almost all apps are reviewed without problems. Occasionally when a new rule is introduced, there is uncertainty on both sides about how it is to be interpreted leading to stress for developers.
  - xgbi 11y ago
    Sounds like capitalism and free market against communism and state interventionism. Wonder which one is the most enjoyable..
    - st3v3r 11y ago
      Well, the vast majority of new apps come to Apple first, and the vast majority of money made on apps is on iOS.
  - st3v3r 11y ago
    Stakeholders have absolutely no power to do any policing, though. And Apple's rejection messages are far from incomprehensible. They point to what you need to change.
    - venomsnake 11y ago
      Well they do have responsibility to police - if app x infringes company y content it is up to y to notify google. Same as with any breaking of guidelines. As a person that has had dealings with apple submission process and dev accounts - lets agree to disagree. These people wanted credit card information faxed to them.
EwanG 11y ago
Basically the poster suggests that because SongFlip was created by a former Google employee that it's getting special treatment.
- venomsnake 11y ago
  My guess - as a former google employee he may have knowledge of the inner workings of the company and can upload/create the app in such ways that he can maximize pre take down times.
- BooneJS 11y ago
  Googlers and Xooglers receive no special treatment. No current Googler would risk getting fired to help a Xoogler. No conspiracy theory required.
  - aikah 11y ago
    > Googlers and Xooglers receive no special treatment. No current Googler would risk getting fired to help a Xoogler. No conspiracy theory required. Unless the person knows he is a future Xooglers. Come on, corruption is everywhere and employees do bad things all the time. The employee(s) may be paid for doing that.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - IvyMike 11y ago
    > No current Googler would risk getting fired to help a Xoogler. You think out of 60K employees, there's not a one that would take that risk for $15K a day? I don't think you're cynical enough.
- spyder 11y ago
  Yea, a special treatment of banning it already 3 times.
  - st3v3r 11y ago
LukeB_UK 11y ago
From their own post: > SongFlip has been banned from Google Play several times in the past for Intellectual Property infringement. After his developer account is banned, the developer keeps on creating new developer accounts to reupload this app. Below is a list of past package names this app has been uploaded under, which have since been banned: com.seven.songflip com.fungames.songflip com.unicornlabs.firetunes So really Google isn't allowing it, this person just keeps on signing up.
- robhu 11y ago
  Does Google not have an app approval process when a developer wants to submit an app to the store? Surely the resubmission of a banned app would be detected at that step?
  - FussyZeus 11y ago
    Android dev here: There is virtually no submission review. As long as the bundle ID is correct I could upload pretty much whatever I wanted, the only things they check for are matching bundle ID's, correct version numbers, basically anything that could damage the Play store in some technical fashion. Everything else is up for the users to report, which is why the Play store is FLUSH with garbage apps. Windows Phone doesn't seem a ton better, the only ones that have any handle on crapware are Apple, and even then it isn't as good as it used to be.
    - bitmapbrother 11y ago
      iPhone user here. You must not have an iPhone or iPad. The App Store is littered with crapware.
      - FussyZeus 11y ago
        I have both. I'm not saying it's the Eden of apps (Like I said, especially recently the App Review seems very lax) but the ratio of crap to useful apps is much better in the App Store in my experience.
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sjbase 11y ago
There could be a couple of problems at work here: 1: Google is only banning developer accounts, not the violating developer themselves (policy problem). 2: Google is trying to ban the actual developer, but failing at identity assertion (technical/data problem).
BooneJS 11y ago
If Googlers read HN, and if the rumors of a popular Google-Internal Meme Generator are true, I suspect this problem may go away soon.
- s_kilk 11y ago
  > popular Google-Internal Meme Generator Never heard of this before. So Google (allegedly) have their own 4chan-alike service internally?
  - ocdtrekkie 11y ago
    They do. http://gizmodo.com/5946769/google-workers-make-internal-memes-for-their-inside-jokes-at-google http://gizmodo.com/5946769/google-workers-make-internal-meme...
  - icpmacdo 11y ago
    Eric Schmidt talked about it in his book 'How google works'
oldmanjay 11y ago
Not a great submission. How is something so poorly written getting this many points? Do people just need some moneyhate as a rally point today?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
z3t4 11y ago
> making over $30,000 per day in ad revenue I wonder where he pulled that number from.
- bitmapbrother 11y ago
  It's probably based on speculation due to the download numbers. Come to think of it, most of his theories are based on speculation.
- nissehulth 11y ago
  most likely from a part of his body not suitable to mention here. :) But, if you get kicked out of the play store for breaking the rules, don't you also lose any funds you have earned through google? I guess he could use mobile ads from a third party that doesn't care about the app changing names.
otterley 11y ago
Mods, can you please change the title to identify the app? The current title is linkbait.
- pearjuice 11y ago
  That would be fraudulent advertising.
logicallee 11y ago
to poopsintub: earlier you wrote "Here I am using images I have a right to use, but they banned me anyway." (Which I thought was informative). You got downvoted, and replied in frustration to yourself writing "Someone can't leave a comment on here without being down-voted by the same asshole every time? Fucking tools." But quickly deleted both comments. Not before I started writing the response below to it though. I hope you see it! >Here I am using images I have a right to use, but they banned me anyway. >>Someone can't leave a comment on here without being down-voted... Your handle is poopsintub - HN isn't reddit, which is a very good thing. Here in general commentators need to be more substantive and civil in all of their comments. (Which is what makes this place good.) I would suggest making a more normally-named account (I'm only referring to the name you chose here, not the content of your posts.) By the way I had a glance at your posting history, it's substantial and good. HN has a policy about being civil, so anyone who even glances at your username will see that you are already not being civil, since poopsintub can't be part of civil discourse - a politician can't say those words on TV at all. This is probably what causes you to attract downvotes anytime you don't make a clearly informative post. (I don't think there's anything wrong with any of your posts at all, I looked through two pages, it's 80% very good and a few kneejerk reactions you might want to tone down but I didn't see anything that bad.) I'm not a moderator here just a commentator like you. If you said something even slightly controversial (you really haven't) you might get so many downvotes that you would be hellbanned, so that nobody sees your posts except you. That really shouldn't happen. So I would suggest picking a more neutral name and toning down the discourse a little. For example, in writing this comment I went from "make a normal account" to "I would suggest making a normal account", and adding the other information to make it more informative. Hope this helps.
ksk 11y ago
I don't think Google even cares about these things. Its kind of like the usual Google fail of "allowing" spammy link farms to rise in their search results. The problem is algorithmic solutions suck compared to basic human judgement on a lot of things. This happens to be one of those things.
georgiecasey 11y ago
i'm involved in this Android ban game myself, i don't think this guy is pulling connections with old Google colleagues. i noticed myself Google getting a bit slower banning accounts of previous indiscretions. they'll have another wave soon and knock out loads of apps and accounts. i'm also skeptical that OP in that reddit thread is really a soundcloud musician. more likely he's a jealous Android dev and snitching on his competition!
kyrra 11y ago
It looks like the app has been removed from the AppStore again. The linked URL[0] for the app returns "URL not found" now on the play store. [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hypermedia.songflip https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hypermedia...

211 points by chei0aiV 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

robhu 11y ago

What is the difference between the Apple process and the Google process such that Google has this problem and Apple does not? Or is this also a problem that occurs on the Apple store?

Mahn 11y ago
Google allows everything by default, and only takes down apps later if they become a problem, whereas Apple reviews everything that is published beforehand.
venomsnake 11y ago
Google approve everything and relies on stakeholders policing. Apple is black box which you should pray to not reject it for whatever reason and get incomprehensible rejection message in your mailbox.
- zepto 11y ago
  Apple has a clear set of published guidelines - in almost all apps are reviewed without problems. Occasionally when a new rule is introduced, there is uncertainty on both sides about how it is to be interpreted leading to stress for developers.
- xgbi 11y ago
  Sounds like capitalism and free market against communism and state interventionism. Wonder which one is the most enjoyable..
  - st3v3r 11y ago
    Well, the vast majority of new apps come to Apple first, and the vast majority of money made on apps is on iOS.
- st3v3r 11y ago
  Stakeholders have absolutely no power to do any policing, though. And Apple's rejection messages are far from incomprehensible. They point to what you need to change.
  - venomsnake 11y ago
    Well they do have responsibility to police - if app x infringes company y content it is up to y to notify google. Same as with any breaking of guidelines. As a person that has had dealings with apple submission process and dev accounts - lets agree to disagree. These people wanted credit card information faxed to them.

EwanG 11y ago

Basically the poster suggests that because SongFlip was created by a former Google employee that it's getting special treatment.

venomsnake 11y ago
My guess - as a former google employee he may have knowledge of the inner workings of the company and can upload/create the app in such ways that he can maximize pre take down times.
BooneJS 11y ago
Googlers and Xooglers receive no special treatment. No current Googler would risk getting fired to help a Xoogler. No conspiracy theory required.
- aikah 11y ago
  > Googlers and Xooglers receive no special treatment. No current Googler would risk getting fired to help a Xoogler. No conspiracy theory required. Unless the person knows he is a future Xooglers. Come on, corruption is everywhere and employees do bad things all the time. The employee(s) may be paid for doing that.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- IvyMike 11y ago
  > No current Googler would risk getting fired to help a Xoogler. You think out of 60K employees, there's not a one that would take that risk for $15K a day? I don't think you're cynical enough.
spyder 11y ago
Yea, a special treatment of banning it already 3 times.
- st3v3r 11y ago

LukeB_UK 11y ago

From their own post: > SongFlip has been banned from Google Play several times in the past for Intellectual Property infringement. After his developer account is banned, the developer keeps on creating new developer accounts to reupload this app. Below is a list of past package names this app has been uploaded under, which have since been banned: com.seven.songflip com.fungames.songflip com.unicornlabs.firetunes So really Google isn't allowing it, this person just keeps on signing up.

robhu 11y ago
Does Google not have an app approval process when a developer wants to submit an app to the store? Surely the resubmission of a banned app would be detected at that step?
- FussyZeus 11y ago
  Android dev here: There is virtually no submission review. As long as the bundle ID is correct I could upload pretty much whatever I wanted, the only things they check for are matching bundle ID's, correct version numbers, basically anything that could damage the Play store in some technical fashion. Everything else is up for the users to report, which is why the Play store is FLUSH with garbage apps. Windows Phone doesn't seem a ton better, the only ones that have any handle on crapware are Apple, and even then it isn't as good as it used to be.
  - bitmapbrother 11y ago
    iPhone user here. You must not have an iPhone or iPad. The App Store is littered with crapware.
    - FussyZeus 11y ago
      I have both. I'm not saying it's the Eden of apps (Like I said, especially recently the App Review seems very lax) but the ratio of crap to useful apps is much better in the App Store in my experience.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

sjbase 11y ago

There could be a couple of problems at work here: 1: Google is only banning developer accounts, not the violating developer themselves (policy problem). 2: Google is trying to ban the actual developer, but failing at identity assertion (technical/data problem).

BooneJS 11y ago

If Googlers read HN, and if the rumors of a popular Google-Internal Meme Generator are true, I suspect this problem may go away soon.

s_kilk 11y ago
> popular Google-Internal Meme Generator Never heard of this before. So Google (allegedly) have their own 4chan-alike service internally?
- ocdtrekkie 11y ago
  They do. http://gizmodo.com/5946769/google-workers-make-internal-memes-for-their-inside-jokes-at-google http://gizmodo.com/5946769/google-workers-make-internal-meme...
- icpmacdo 11y ago
  Eric Schmidt talked about it in his book 'How google works'

oldmanjay 11y ago

Not a great submission. How is something so poorly written getting this many points? Do people just need some moneyhate as a rally point today?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

z3t4 11y ago

> making over $30,000 per day in ad revenue I wonder where he pulled that number from.

bitmapbrother 11y ago
It's probably based on speculation due to the download numbers. Come to think of it, most of his theories are based on speculation.
nissehulth 11y ago
most likely from a part of his body not suitable to mention here. :) But, if you get kicked out of the play store for breaking the rules, don't you also lose any funds you have earned through google? I guess he could use mobile ads from a third party that doesn't care about the app changing names.

otterley 11y ago

Mods, can you please change the title to identify the app? The current title is linkbait.

pearjuice 11y ago
That would be fraudulent advertising.

logicallee 11y ago

to poopsintub: earlier you wrote "Here I am using images I have a right to use, but they banned me anyway." (Which I thought was informative). You got downvoted, and replied in frustration to yourself writing "Someone can't leave a comment on here without being down-voted by the same asshole every time? Fucking tools." But quickly deleted both comments. Not before I started writing the response below to it though. I hope you see it! >Here I am using images I have a right to use, but they banned me anyway. >>Someone can't leave a comment on here without being down-voted... Your handle is poopsintub - HN isn't reddit, which is a very good thing. Here in general commentators need to be more substantive and civil in all of their comments. (Which is what makes this place good.) I would suggest making a more normally-named account (I'm only referring to the name you chose here, not the content of your posts.) By the way I had a glance at your posting history, it's substantial and good. HN has a policy about being civil, so anyone who even glances at your username will see that you are already not being civil, since poopsintub can't be part of civil discourse - a politician can't say those words on TV at all. This is probably what causes you to attract downvotes anytime you don't make a clearly informative post. (I don't think there's anything wrong with any of your posts at all, I looked through two pages, it's 80% very good and a few kneejerk reactions you might want to tone down but I didn't see anything that bad.) I'm not a moderator here just a commentator like you. If you said something even slightly controversial (you really haven't) you might get so many downvotes that you would be hellbanned, so that nobody sees your posts except you. That really shouldn't happen. So I would suggest picking a more neutral name and toning down the discourse a little. For example, in writing this comment I went from "make a normal account" to "I would suggest making a normal account", and adding the other information to make it more informative. Hope this helps.

ksk 11y ago

I don't think Google even cares about these things. Its kind of like the usual Google fail of "allowing" spammy link farms to rise in their search results. The problem is algorithmic solutions suck compared to basic human judgement on a lot of things. This happens to be one of those things.

georgiecasey 11y ago

i'm involved in this Android ban game myself, i don't think this guy is pulling connections with old Google colleagues. i noticed myself Google getting a bit slower banning accounts of previous indiscretions. they'll have another wave soon and knock out loads of apps and accounts. i'm also skeptical that OP in that reddit thread is really a soundcloud musician. more likely he's a jealous Android dev and snitching on his competition!

kyrra 11y ago

It looks like the app has been removed from the AppStore again. The linked URL[0] for the app returns "URL not found" now on the play store. [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hypermedia.songflip https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hypermedia...